Off Topic · OT - Trump & Russia (page 9)

Allanfan20 @ 7/25/2018 6:29 PM
smackeddog wrote:
nixluva wrote:

That's actually a good thing- I'd rather he just f*** off and play golf the whole term, then we wouldn't have to listen to his nonsense.

I would normally agree but he’s so impulsive that after a bad game, he’ll probably decide to f’ something else up. Maybe make it legal to hunt a species threatening to go extinct. God knows his sons want that.

nixluva @ 7/25/2018 6:57 PM
meloshouldgo @ 7/25/2018 6:59 PM
ekstarks94 wrote:
djsunyc wrote:

This is gold

lol

nixluva @ 7/25/2018 7:50 PM
TheGame @ 7/25/2018 8:29 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:
djsunyc wrote:

This is gold

lol

This is exactly what I have arguing to people on Fox. They are convinced that the world was so terrible under Obama when all he did was take America out of the Great Recession and bring jobs back to the country. Love him or hate him, the idea that Obama did a terrible job is just contrary to the facts and shows that the real issue is these white did not like the country being run by a black man and they started feeling their hold in white privilege slipping away, so enter Trump.

Cartman718 @ 7/25/2018 8:56 PM
Total rounds of golf by Obama during Presidency (something Fox would bash him over all the time) - 333 which is 333 / 8 years = 41 rounds of golf per year.
On the other hand, Trump has played 123 days (assuming 1 round per day to be conservative) playing golf = 123 / 1.5 years = 82 round of golf per year

Pretty much double.

If you think what does the $72 mill equate to per year = $72,000,000 * 82 / 123 = $48 mill per year
For Obama, that number was again half = $24 mill per year.


Meanwhile here are the tweets...
https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2017/3/27/...


Then...

Now...

WaltLongmire @ 7/26/2018 10:46 PM
We are heading toward a Constitutional crisis.

Impeachment is becoming a legitimate option.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/26/politics/...

martin @ 7/27/2018 12:18 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:We are heading toward a Constitutional crisis.

I don't know the literal meaning of Constitutional Crisis (if there is such a thing) but it feels like to me that we are already there.

This is exactly what happens when you don't properly vet a person. Everyone who took an honest, measured look had to know Trump was a con man and worse. He did not have a track record as a successful businessman, quite the opposite in fact. He did not have ANY plans to make this country better, there was no there there. There were obvious tell tale signs that he was connected to the mafia and other international, dark money organizations. He lied consistently, still does.

The media has failed us as a country and have only started to barely turn the corner. Barely. We are starting to learn how Facebook - an American bred fairy tale company - was really infested with dark international money and influenced and USED against the United States. Does anyone really believe that Fox is healthy for this country and the people in it? It does not represent an opposing opinion, absolutely does not.

Our government is represented with people who are obviously motivated only for themselves or their party, not for country.

Can we as a country turn this around?

WaltLongmire @ 7/27/2018 2:17 PM
martin wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:We are heading toward a Constitutional crisis.

I don't know the literal meaning of Constitutional Crisis (if there is such a thing) but it feels like to me that we are already there.

This is exactly what happens when you don't properly vet a person. Everyone who took an honest, measured look had to know Trump was a con man and worse. He did not have a track record as a successful businessman, quite the opposite in fact. He did not have ANY plans to make this country better, there was no there there. There were obvious tell tale signs that he was connected to the mafia and other international, dark money organizations. He lied consistently, still does.

The media has failed us as a country and have only started to barely turn the corner. Barely. We are starting to learn how Facebook - an American bred fairy tale company - was really infested with dark international money and influenced and USED against the United States. Does anyone really believe that Fox is healthy for this country and the people in it? It does not represent an opposing opinion, absolutely does not.

Our government is represented with people who are obviously motivated only for themselves or their party, not for country.

Can we as a country turn this around?


Yeah...some have said we are there (the Const. Crisis)...mostly related to the fact that there have been few checks on Trump's power from Congress, so far.

Also a social crisis...not sure whether our populace is up to dealing with the manipulation which can be done on them in social media. Facebook has failed in that aspect, so far.


I always felt that the GOP was a check (sometimes a positive one) on Dem spending, when the Dems were in power...under Trump, they suddenly don't care about debts and deficits. Everything has changed, not, and that is a large part of the problem. For the most part, Trump has been able to do anything and say anything he wants, with minimal pushback from Ryan or McConnell.

The partisan stuff really got vicious with Obama...as McConnell and others decided they would block his plans whenever they could, and NEVER give him credit. The final straw...ultimate partisanship, was the Garland appointment, and Mitch telling Obama he would not do a joint statement on Russian interference in the government.

I think Mitch, in many ways, is the hidden (perhaps not so hidden) villain of the past 5 years or more, as much as Trump, perhaps even more.

If the GOP holds the house after the mid-terms, and Jim Jordan becomes speaker, it will get worse, though.

Things will eventually change, but if there is nothing to stop the Russian interference (Note that McCaskill in Missouri, the Dem Senator, was under cyber attack in September(?) of last year.)in our elections, things might get worse before they get better, especially if they gain access to voting rolls.

Need the NFL and NBA seasons to start to get my mind off this shyte.

nixluva @ 7/27/2018 4:29 PM
arkrud @ 7/28/2018 12:38 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:
martin wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:We are heading toward a Constitutional crisis.

I don't know the literal meaning of Constitutional Crisis (if there is such a thing) but it feels like to me that we are already there.

This is exactly what happens when you don't properly vet a person. Everyone who took an honest, measured look had to know Trump was a con man and worse. He did not have a track record as a successful businessman, quite the opposite in fact. He did not have ANY plans to make this country better, there was no there there. There were obvious tell tale signs that he was connected to the mafia and other international, dark money organizations. He lied consistently, still does.

The media has failed us as a country and have only started to barely turn the corner. Barely. We are starting to learn how Facebook - an American bred fairy tale company - was really infested with dark international money and influenced and USED against the United States. Does anyone really believe that Fox is healthy for this country and the people in it? It does not represent an opposing opinion, absolutely does not.

Our government is represented with people who are obviously motivated only for themselves or their party, not for country.

Can we as a country turn this around?


Yeah...some have said we are there (the Const. Crisis)...mostly related to the fact that there have been few checks on Trump's power from Congress, so far.

Also a social crisis...not sure whether our populace is up to dealing with the manipulation which can be done on them in social media. Facebook has failed in that aspect, so far.


I always felt that the GOP was a check (sometimes a positive one) on Dem spending, when the Dems were in power...under Trump, they suddenly don't care about debts and deficits. Everything has changed, not, and that is a large part of the problem. For the most part, Trump has been able to do anything and say anything he wants, with minimal pushback from Ryan or McConnell.

The partisan stuff really got vicious with Obama...as McConnell and others decided they would block his plans whenever they could, and NEVER give him credit. The final straw...ultimate partisanship, was the Garland appointment, and Mitch telling Obama he would not do a joint statement on Russian interference in the government.

I think Mitch, in many ways, is the hidden (perhaps not so hidden) villain of the past 5 years or more, as much as Trump, perhaps even more.

If the GOP holds the house after the mid-terms, and Jim Jordan becomes speaker, it will get worse, though.

Things will eventually change, but if there is nothing to stop the Russian interference (Note that McCaskill in Missouri, the Dem Senator, was under cyber attack in September(?) of last year.)in our elections, things might get worse before they get better, especially if they gain access to voting rolls.

Need the NFL and NBA seasons to start to get my mind off this shyte.

Reps, Dems, Trump are a reflection of US society.
Don't blame the mirror if the face is ugly...
US society is so wealthy (in relative terms to most of the world and our own not so distant past) that people now see the reality as Reality Show.
And politics by reflection became the Reality Show too.
The suburbs are getting more and more diverse and civilized and the Cities more and more violent and segregated.
Business and technology and those who stand behind it becoming the power it is as people cannot afford to lose access to their addictions and desires.
The things that principally divided the society in the past quickly becoming irrelevant and New Brave World is crippling up into today's life.
Don't worry - be happy. The scary Clown in the White House is not forever. You will discover a new pain the dwell upon...

WaltLongmire @ 7/28/2018 1:42 PM
Not Trump/Russia, but this is the only active political thread we have...

Melo on "Rico"

TheGame @ 7/29/2018 11:39 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:Not Trump/Russia, but this is the only active political thread we have...

Melo on "Rico"

I hope Puerto Ricans help reelect Bill Nelson to the Senate so that the dems can take control of Congress. The Republicans have spent $25 million on a senate race in Florida. We need all dems to come out and vote in November in Florida. A lot of Puerto Rican's moved to Florida after the hurricane and they are all eligible to vote it they properly register.

djsunyc @ 7/29/2018 3:22 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/...

ULYSSES, Pa. — The traffic sign that greets visitors on the south side of Ulysses, a tiny town in rural far north-central Pennsylvania, is suitably quaint — a silhouette of a horse-drawn cart reminding drivers that the Amish use the roads, too. But on the north side of town, along the main thoroughfare, is a far different display: a home dedicated to Adolf Hitler, where star-spangled banners and Nazi flags flutter side by side and wooden swastikas stand on poles.

White supremacy has had a continuous presence in Ulysses and surrounding Potter County since the Ku Klux Klan arrived a century ago, giving the town — with a population today of about 650 — improbable national significance. In the mid-2000s, it hosted the World Aryan Congress, a gathering of neo-Nazis, skinheads and Klan members.

This year, after a sting operation, federal prosecutors charged six members of an Aryan Strike Force cell with weapons and drug offenses, contending that they had plotted a suicide attack at an anti-racism protest. A terminally ill member was willing to hide a bomb in his oxygen tank and blow himself up, prosecutors said. The group had met and conducted weapons training in Ulysses.

Neo-Nazis and their opponents here say that white extremists have grown more confident — and confrontational — since the rise of Donald Trump. Two months before the 2016 presidential election, the KKK established a “24 hour Klan Line” and sent goody bags containing lollipops and fliers to hundreds of homes. “You can sleep tonight knowing the Klan is awake,” the message read. A regional newspaper ran Klan advertisements saying, “God bless the KKK.”

Local police said the group had not openly recruited in years.

Two weeks later, the area’s two neo-Nazi groups, the National Socialist Movement (NSM) and Aryan Strike Force, held a “white unity meeting” in Ulysses to discuss their response to Trump and plan joint action. One organizer would not say when the groups had last met, simply commenting: “It’s just a good time.”

Potter County is staunchly Republican and has voted Democratic once since 1888; Trump received 80 percent of the vote, tying with Herbert Hoover for the highest percentage won.

“I can tell you with certainty that since November 2016, activity has doubled, whether it’s feet on the street or money orders or people helping out,” said Daniel Burnside, 43, a woodcarver who owns the Nazi-themed home and directs the state chapter of the National Socialist Movement, a far-right group that was founded in Detroit in the mid-1970s. It has a presence in many states, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks extremist groups, and the NSM was among the groups taking part in the violent August 2017 rally in defense of Confederate statues in Charlottesville.

“We have meetings every 30 days,” he said. “ There’s more collaboration.”


Burnside, who declined to say how many local residents were involved in his group, was born in Ulysses and raised there by a grandfather who he said was a Nazi sympathizer who fought in the U.S. Army in Europe during World War II. Burnside said his beloved grandfather drank himself to death because of the war’s impact on him.

The younger Burnside said he joined the NSM four years ago but has long harbored anti-Semitic views and is a practicing Odinist — the pagan religion Odinism is popular among some neo-Nazis. Burnside does not see Trump as a leader of the NSM cause but as a politician who amplified long-standing white-nationalist views at the right time.

“Personally, I don’t know about Trump,” he said. “You won’t necessarily see MAGA hats at an NSM meeting. We’re anti-Semitic. Something’s off about Trump with the Jews. That said, we’re strategically aligned. When Trump says something that aligns with us — close the borders, build the wall, look after your own — that’s good: We’ve been saying this for 25 years, but he has made it mainstream.”

“We’re still a white nation, and I respect that he supports that,” Burnside added. “He’s also highlighted social problems. The kids who go to bed hungry, people who can’t pay their bills, the damage being done to society.”

Joe Leschner, 38, a white restaurant manager, fled the county this year because of what he said was abuse aimed at him and his wife, Sashena, who is black, after Trump’s election.

After he discovered a KKK leaflet outside their home, Leschner organized an anti-racism gathering in Ulysses. “And these guys drove by us and gave the gun signal, like they’re going to shoot us,” he said.

One of those who Leschner said made a pistol gesture had previously been jailed for 10 years for an aggravated assault on a black man. This year he was convicted of possession of firearms he was not legally allowed to own and intent to sell drugs.

Photographs of the Leschners were circulated on VK, a Russian-run social media site, with users posting death threats, he said.

“A guy came up to us in a restaurant and said, ‘You have got to be kidding me.’ I wanted to say something, but just couldn’t. This was where I grew up, at the restaurant where I got my first job. My wife was almost in tears,” he recalled.

“We had to leave,” said Leschner, who now runs a restaurant in Frederick, Md. “Most people aren’t racist, but there are enough that are and enough who let it happen.”

Kathleen Blee, a University of Pittsburgh sociology professor and expert on white extremism, said Ulysses came to be a nexus of such thinking as like-minded residents gravitated to one another.


“Modern white extremism is different to the KKK in the 1920s or Nazi Germany in that it is exclusively produced through small networks. It is not a mass movement,” she said. “It’s just one person recruiting another. Somebody knowing somebody. . . . You get an extremist in an area, they attract other extremists.”

Ulysses’s most famous resident may have been August Kreis III, 63, a neo-Nazi from New Jersey who moved to town in the 1990s and left about 10 years ago. Kreis made Ulysses the national headquarters of the Aryan Nations group and organized events such as the Aryan World Congress. In 2015, he was sentenced to 50 years in prison on a child-molestation conviction.

Pennsylvania has 36 racial hate groups, more than Alabama, Arkansas or Kansas, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

“This area is well known for white supremacy. It’s got a rich history and the right conditions to thrive,” said Heidi Beirich of the SPLC. “It’s as significant as many areas in the South usually associated with white supremacy.”

Rural Appalachia, which includes Ulysses’s Potter County, has a wary attitude to outside forces — especially the state — that is often cited as a reason that anti-government militia groups and white extremists have prospered here. “There is also an extreme mind-your-own business approach and a belief in individual rights,” Blee said.

Months before the Leschners fled the area, another controversy erupted after a sheriff’s deputy from a neighboring county entered Burnside’s front yard and confiscated a Nazi flag. Burnside called his local police force, demanding that the deputy return the flag and record a video apology. When that did not happen, he went to state police and pursued a theft case. The 23-year-old deputy was forced to return the flag and pay damages. Local police confirmed that he was suspended and left his position shortly after the trial’s conclusion.


Many locals suggested that they were more upset by the deputy’s actions than by the neo-Nazism. One man, an Army veteran who spoke on the condition of anonymity out of fear of being branded a racist, said there was no comparison between World War II Nazis and Ulysses residents.

“World War II was a totally different time period. It’s part of history,” he said. “He can do what he wants. . . . Everyone has their own thing.”

One day recently, Burnside, accompanied by a reporter, drove around town dressed in a shirt featuring Hitler’s face as the main design. None of the locals he chatted with objected to his attire.

City council president Roy Hunt insisted that this reflected the town’s generous spirit.

“We’re a laid-back town, and we’re going to be nice to everybody,” Hunt said. “I’ve known Danny for 20 years. If you were in town and you walked around with him, you’re right, he’ll be welcome in every store. . . . If you’re nice, people will be nice to you 98 percent of the time.”

“If he were to put something up that said kill all members of a race, in my opinion that would be crossing the line, but he doesn’t have that sign up,” Hunt said.

He added that the town’s Nazi presence had been exaggerated by the news media and opposing groups.

Burnside said he serves the community. “I do fundraisers for American Legion with my artwork. Boys and Girls Clubs, regardless of race or ethnicity, I do fundraisers. . . . The only way I can help white people is by helping everyone.”

Other residents disagree about the impact of the white supremacists’ presence. As he shopped among Burnside’s carved wooden bears and eagle sculptures, some of them signed with a swastika, Tom Lee, a road construction manager, said that he supports the First Amendment and that the Nazi presence “ain’t nothing to do with me. It’s a free country.”

“After a while, you’re not what you were anymore,” he added. “It is America out here, but not in the inner cities anymore.”

William Fish, a 72-year-old carpenter, recalled as a child accompanying his mother as she delivered blankets and shoes to the shacks where black field workers lived.

“We’re not a racist town, but there are people who will turn a blind eye when they see racism happening. That’s why we have this history,” he said. “I think it has got worse since Trump, I honestly do. I also think our young people do not today share the same rotten values as older people.”

Belinda Empson, 59, said it pained her that veterans in the Memorial Day parade had to march past Nazi signs.


“My grandson is 8 years old and he’s already asking about the Nazi flags,” said Empson, a retired waitress. “And I don’t want to explain to my grandson what it means, what they’re about. We should have settled this stuff years ago.”

Empson said Ulysses had been divided since Trump’s victory: “I think Trump has opened the gate and said, ‘It’s okay.’ It was not a license, but a subtle, ‘It’s okay.’ I think we are seeing that now.”

“It bothers me,” she added, “because we have good people in this town.”

Wanda Shirk, 68, an English teacher who worked at a Potter County school for 28 years, joked that the town had become LGBT — “Liberty, Guns, Bible, Trump.”

“I don’t think everyone here is racist, but I think a lot are racially insensitive,” she said, “and Trump has allowed that to grow.”

djsunyc @ 7/29/2018 10:36 PM

murica!!!

wargames @ 7/30/2018 8:31 AM
I really hope people are made to atone for this crap. 6-year-olds being sexually abused and told that they are responsible for avoiding the abuse.

Can it get any lower?

martin @ 7/30/2018 2:48 PM
wargames wrote:I really hope people are made to atone for this crap. 6-year-olds being sexually abused and told that they are responsible for avoiding the abuse.

Can it get any lower?

I get sick to my stomach thinking that this type of thing could even be POSSIBLE anywhere in the world let alone in our country, so much so that I can't get myself to read the article.

I don't know how some people live with themselves.

How is there not more upheaval at these sites from the people working there? I don't get why these types of things aren't splashed everywhere.... well OK I do know why, same reason Puerto Rico recovery has been much worse than Katrina and it's barely a blip on the radar.

nixluva @ 7/30/2018 4:16 PM
Excellent facts to counter the Trump Propaganda on the Economy 🤨

meloshouldgo @ 7/30/2018 4:51 PM
djsunyc wrote:

murica!!!

The people who supportthese policies and these politicians have been liberated from the truth.Anything negative is automatically fake - so of course they don't need to take responsibility for it. There's no humanity left in Washington.

meloshouldgo @ 7/30/2018 5:04 PM
nixluva wrote:Excellent facts to counter the Trump Propaganda on the Economy 🤨

I like the second and the third one. On the first one it's not an apples to apples comparison - 8 years to 1.5 yeras. The fourth one is a bad metric, never look at average wages if you are trying to makethe case for the economy being well run. You need MEDIAN wages very different from Average or Mean. While the chart shows avearge real wages went up median real wages stayed flat during the same time. during Obama's time in office it went down from intial levelof $58,500 and then came back up to about $59,000

Cartman718 @ 7/31/2018 12:17 AM
martin wrote:
wargames wrote:I really hope people are made to atone for this crap. 6-year-olds being sexually abused and told that they are responsible for avoiding the abuse.

Can it get any lower?

I get sick to my stomach thinking that this type of thing could even be POSSIBLE anywhere in the world let alone in our country, so much so that I can't get myself to read the article.

I don't know how some people live with themselves.

How is there not more upheaval at these sites from the people working there? I don't get why these types of things aren't splashed everywhere.... well OK I do know why, same reason Puerto Rico recovery has been much worse than Katrina and it's barely a blip on the radar.

This is what happens when you treat people like cattle. It's not like the authorities deliberately permitted it or enabled it, but you put a bunch of frustrated people of any age locked up in rooms and detention centers like this and this is what's going to happen when you don't have adequate monitoring. Does Trump care...? No..as far as he is concerned, they broke the law whatever age they may be so they deserve everything they have coming to them.

My cousin who is a staunch conservative but with no wife and kids doesn't really understand that humanity comes above all this political and financial gains, and I think this is the problem with most Trump supporters. They've felt so disenfranchised that they honestly don't care who Trump's actions affect as long as it does not directly affect them. And it would have to be direct. Anything indirect by way of bills that over the course of time will affect them adversely...they are too blind to see.

Like how much crap does this country have to go through before every single person who voted for Trump says...Enough is Enough.

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