Knicks · The necessary move to make (page 1)

Now that we know where we stand with free agents. It’s time to cut bait with Fizdale. He has no pull with anyone. One of the reason the Knicks hired Fizdale was that he was in the know with big FAs. That fell apart for the Knicks and as usual Knicks are getting played by Fizdale.

We need a coach in here that can reach and teach the young players. Fizdale is not that guy. Knicks need to make a smart move and remove Fizdale offer the job to someone who actually has done something in the NBA as a player/coach.

Fiz needs to show more this year but you can’t fire him after one year. The Knicks are trying to not be dysfunctional and have continuity as an organization. Fiz needs to do better this year and he has a better team.

CrushAlot wrote:Fiz needs to show more this year but you can’t fire him after one year. The Knicks are trying to not be dysfunctional and have continuity as an organization. Fiz needs to do better this year and he has a better team.

Hiring Fizdale is a dysfunctional move. He was hired for all the wrong reasons. Do you guys not pay attention on how the Knicks have been operating? Fizdale was hired not because he could coach he was hired to attract free agents that he was supposedly in circle with.

No need to prolong the agony and make the move ASAP and start getting the players to play as a team. If your going to rely on individual talents of the players they won’t get to far as they are on par with other players. But if the play as a team they can make each other better. Fizdale is not type of coach as there will be no LeBron, KD, Kawhi walking through the door to save him from his lack of coaching ability.

Vmart wrote:Now that we know where we stand with free agents. It’s time to cut bait with Fizdale. He has no pull with anyone. One of the reason the Knicks hired Fizdale was that he was in the know with big FAs. That fell apart for the Knicks and as usual Knicks are getting played by Fizdale.

We need a coach in here that can reach and teach the young players. Fizdale is not that guy. Knicks need to make a smart move and remove Fizdale offer the job to someone who actually has done something in the NBA as a player/coach.

So the guy who preaches that should develop our own stars and is constantly saying no snap judgments is making a wild snap judgement. This is so silly. Fizdale's job was to develop the youth while losing games. Really only Frank didnt show upticks in their games.

Now he's got another young roster, but its a balanced roster with depth at every position, albeit unproven and some very young. So lets fire him now? I love when folks are working with 5% of the story, only their narrative and demand wholesale changes based on those two things. You wanted to develop internally with youth, Knicks are continuing to do that and your first comment is "fire the coach"

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:Now that we know where we stand with free agents. It’s time to cut bait with Fizdale. He has no pull with anyone. One of the reason the Knicks hired Fizdale was that he was in the know with big FAs. That fell apart for the Knicks and as usual Knicks are getting played by Fizdale.

We need a coach in here that can reach and teach the young players. Fizdale is not that guy. Knicks need to make a smart move and remove Fizdale offer the job to someone who actually has done something in the NBA as a player/coach.

So the guy who preaches that should develop our own stars and is constantly saying no snap judgments is making a wild snap judgement. This is so silly. Fizdale's job was to develop the youth while losing games. Really only Frank didnt show upticks in their games.

Now he's got another young roster, but its a balanced roster with depth at every position, albeit unproven and some very young. So lets fire him now? I love when folks are working with 5% of the story, only their narrative and demand wholesale changes based on those two things. You wanted to develop internally with youth, Knicks are continuing to do that and your first comment is "fire the coach"

I told you so!

the young guys showed progress this yr they need to do the same and two players need to make a bigger leap in Mitch and Knox. DSJ lets see where he goes but he has been working on his game so that is promising in its self

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:Now that we know where we stand with free agents. It’s time to cut bait with Fizdale. He has no pull with anyone. One of the reason the Knicks hired Fizdale was that he was in the know with big FAs. That fell apart for the Knicks and as usual Knicks are getting played by Fizdale.

We need a coach in here that can reach and teach the young players. Fizdale is not that guy. Knicks need to make a smart move and remove Fizdale offer the job to someone who actually has done something in the NBA as a player/coach.

So the guy who preaches that should develop our own stars and is constantly saying no snap judgments is making a wild snap judgement. This is so silly. Fizdale's job was to develop the youth while losing games. Really only Frank didnt show upticks in their games.

Now he's got another young roster, but its a balanced roster with depth at every position, albeit unproven and some very young. So lets fire him now? I love when folks are working with 5% of the story, only their narrative and demand wholesale changes based on those two things. You wanted to develop internally with youth, Knicks are continuing to do that and your first comment is "fire the coach"

I told you so!

what did you tell me?

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Fiz needs to show more this year but you can’t fire him after one year. The Knicks are trying to not be dysfunctional and have continuity as an organization. Fiz needs to do better this year and he has a better team.

Hiring Fizdale is a dysfunctional move. He was hired for all the wrong reasons. Do you guys not pay attention on how the Knicks have been operating? Fizdale was hired not because he could coach he was hired to attract free agents that he was supposedly in circle with.

No need to prolong the agony and make the move ASAP and start getting the players to play as a team. If your going to rely on individual talents of the players they won’t get to far as they are on par with other players. But if the play as a team they can make each other better. Fizdale is not type of coach as there will be no LeBron, KD, Kawhi walking through the door to save him from his lack of coaching ability.

you can't fire fizdale without firing perry or mills if not both..

Think we can accurately assess Fizdale at the end of this season. Really think the plan was for him to let the young players develop last year and build (or rebuild) confidence with the Muds, Marios and Vonlehs... Do believe Fizdale thought we were going to land KD or some max vets which would have probably made his job easier then coaching mostly young players. Since that didn't happen we'll have to see if he is a quality coach or more of an assistant coach with good motivation tools. Should be an interesting year to see how much we actually progress (or don't).

I don't agree. I am not sold on Fizdale but he has not had a chance. Looking at this roster, if he can take them to the playoffs and develop a team identity than he will have done enough.
The main thing he needs to do is develop a team identity. That is what Atkinson and Marks have done and what I thnk the Knicks are finally going to try.

All the FA's signings can be moved in bigger deals or small deals at the deadline. Smart way to build a team. THose who fit, stay on - the others can be moved. Meanwhile 6 1st rd picks in the next 4 years.

As if magically Zion will come, Durant won't get hurt, and Kyrie will look at satellite photos and get geometry.
Its July 1st, fire the coach because Kyrie passed us. Because Durants situation changed.
What specifically did not happen? We fired Phil for wanting to trade KP, then we fire Mills/Perry for the same thing?

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:Now that we know where we stand with free agents. It’s time to cut bait with Fizdale. He has no pull with anyone. One of the reason the Knicks hired Fizdale was that he was in the know with big FAs. That fell apart for the Knicks and as usual Knicks are getting played by Fizdale.

We need a coach in here that can reach and teach the young players. Fizdale is not that guy. Knicks need to make a smart move and remove Fizdale offer the job to someone who actually has done something in the NBA as a player/coach.

So the guy who preaches that should develop our own stars and is constantly saying no snap judgments is making a wild snap judgement. This is so silly. Fizdale's job was to develop the youth while losing games. Really only Frank didnt show upticks in their games.

Now he's got another young roster, but its a balanced roster with depth at every position, albeit unproven and some very young. So lets fire him now? I love when folks are working with 5% of the story, only their narrative and demand wholesale changes based on those two things. You wanted to develop internally with youth, Knicks are continuing to do that and your first comment is "fire the coach"

I told you so!

what did you tell me?

Don’t get your hopes to high when it comes to the Knicks. I honestly believe you know the Knicks better than I do. Your in more touch than I am. But you constantly let your fandom get the better of you. You look to the media as your source for everything Knicks they build all the Knicks fans up with rumors stupid rumors too.

Right now your looking for some answers and basically looking for a silver lining in any mover from here on out. Randle is a good move and is Portis. I can find hope in those moves too.

Saying “I told you so!” Is just me being an idiot.

But I still want Fizdale gone before the season starts. He is also what is wrong with the Knicks hire a coach simply because he knows players stupid reason to hire a coach.

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:Now that we know where we stand with free agents. It’s time to cut bait with Fizdale. He has no pull with anyone. One of the reason the Knicks hired Fizdale was that he was in the know with big FAs. That fell apart for the Knicks and as usual Knicks are getting played by Fizdale.

We need a coach in here that can reach and teach the young players. Fizdale is not that guy. Knicks need to make a smart move and remove Fizdale offer the job to someone who actually has done something in the NBA as a player/coach.

So the guy who preaches that should develop our own stars and is constantly saying no snap judgments is making a wild snap judgement. This is so silly. Fizdale's job was to develop the youth while losing games. Really only Frank didnt show upticks in their games.

Now he's got another young roster, but its a balanced roster with depth at every position, albeit unproven and some very young. So lets fire him now? I love when folks are working with 5% of the story, only their narrative and demand wholesale changes based on those two things. You wanted to develop internally with youth, Knicks are continuing to do that and your first comment is "fire the coach"

I told you so!

what did you tell me?

Don’t get your hopes to high when it comes to the Knicks. I honestly believe you know the Knicks better than I do. Your in more touch than I am. But you constantly let your fandom get the better of you. You look to the media as your source for everything Knicks they build all the Knicks fans up with rumors stupid rumors too.

Right now your looking for some answers and basically looking for a silver lining in any mover from here on out. Randle is a good move and is Portis. I can find hope in those moves too.

Saying “I told you so!” Is just me being an idiot.

But I still want Fizdale gone before the season starts. He is also what is wrong with the Knicks hire a coach simply because he knows players stupid reason to hire a coach.

that is not why they hired him. Why do you tell yourself these things and cling to them like gospel?

There are only a couple stars. If you miss out on one what is plan b? Randle is a huge upside guy at 24 and already a proven highly EFF% NBA scorer. And the commitment is not 4-5 years. Knicks improved areas they needed, they added 24 year olds trending upward and veteran pros who are good shooters. They are setting up their young players to have quality support and they added a potential starter in Randle.

Did you want Kemba for the max? Cousins? Russell for the max?

Not replacing KP's talent hurt, but they tried and took good steps. This is another stage of trending in the right direction.

Not a Fizdale fan, but I'm not ready to dump him after 1 season.

However, it's upsetting that a guy who was supposed to be a draw for FA's, a so called "players" coach loved by James and Wade, not only failed to be a draw for top tier players, but was also head coach when our best player decided to bail on us. Fiz was clearly unable to create a bond with KP and the evil Janis. Was he the only one we should blame...nope, but he clearly wasn't able to convince KP to remain.

I also don't think did a great job of instilling a team first concept on offense into our young players. Our assist to basket ratio was one of the worst in the league, no? He clearly messed with any confidence Frank might have had, gave players like Trier and Knox too much freedom on the offensive end, was very inconsistent in handing out playing time, and in my opinion, didn't create optimum conditions for players to succeed on the offensive end.

All the BS about him playing to tank and not wanting to install a system his first year, is just that, BS.

You instill the concepts you want your players to play under from day 1. Letting players develop bad habits early on is the worst thing you can do. Watching Trier and Knox playing ISO ball right from the start in SL carried over into the regular season.

Movement on offense, not holding the ball, better use of picks and screens, less ISO ball, looking for the open man, and tenacity + a helping mentality on D, this is what I want to see.

I don't want to see individual players with the ball at the top of the key trying to play Lebron James hero ball, and only passing off if they don't have a shot.

We will see.

Fizzdale will certainly be fired sooner than later; it's a when question, not an if.

Right now, I think the only thing keeping him here is that firing him would be an aweful look. FO's first coaching hire was a disaster.

In the business world, as a general matter, the good companies cut their losses and move forward. I think the G-league coach will be our version of Nick Nurse. He will be part of the staff. the FO will get a chance to hear him more often; see how he thinks. And if he's good he'll be a candidate to save the franchise

CleaverGreene wrote:Not a Fizdale fan, but I'm not ready to dump him after 1 season.

However, it's upsetting that a guy who was supposed to be a draw for FA's, a so called "players" coach loved by James and Wade, not only failed to be a draw for top tier players, but was also head coach when our best player decided to bail on us. Fiz was clearly unable to create a bond with KP and the evil Janis. Was he the only one we should blame...nope, but he clearly wasn't able to convince KP to remain.

I also don't think did a great job of instilling a team first concept on offense into our young players. Our assist to basket ratio was one of the worst in the league, no? He clearly messed with any confidence Frank might have had, gave players like Trier and Knox too much freedom on the offensive end, was very inconsistent in handing out playing time, and in my opinion, didn't create optimum conditions for players to succeed on the offensive end.

All the BS about him playing to tank and not wanting to install a system his first year, is just that, BS.

You instill the concepts you want your players to play under from day 1. Letting players develop bad habits early on is the worst thing you can do. Watching Trier and Knox playing ISO ball right from the start in SL carried over into the regular season.

Movement on offense, not holding the ball, better use of picks and screens, less ISO ball, looking for the open man, and tenacity + a helping mentality on D, this is what I want to see.

I don't want to see individual players with the ball at the top of the key trying to play Lebron James hero ball, and only passing off if they don't have a shot.

We will see.

Seriously, how the fuck can you equate anything KP and Fiz? KP was off rehabbing and figuring out his payoff to side chicks while the team was actually playing games during the season. What did you expect to happen and why would you put any blame or relevance on Fiz?

And after KD goes down, what other player are you expecting to magically attract? What makes sense for the Knicks? Which max players?

Chandler wrote:Fizzdale will certainly be fired sooner than later; it's a when question, not an if.

Right now, I think the only thing keeping him here is that firing him would be an aweful look. FO's first coaching hire was a disaster.

In the business world, as a general matter, the good companies cut their losses and move forward. I think the G-league coach will be our version of Nick Nurse. He will be part of the staff. the FO will get a chance to hear him more often; see how he thinks. And if he's good he'll be a candidate to save the franchise

Or maybe the Knicks will be better than you think this year? Look last year we clearly were tanking I admit that. This year despite what people say we will be a better team. Cant just fire him 1 year. Its not like Durant was gonna help us out next year if ever... coming back from that injury. Lets see what happens first

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:Now that we know where we stand with free agents. It’s time to cut bait with Fizdale. He has no pull with anyone. One of the reason the Knicks hired Fizdale was that he was in the know with big FAs. That fell apart for the Knicks and as usual Knicks are getting played by Fizdale.

We need a coach in here that can reach and teach the young players. Fizdale is not that guy. Knicks need to make a smart move and remove Fizdale offer the job to someone who actually has done something in the NBA as a player/coach.

So the guy who preaches that should develop our own stars and is constantly saying no snap judgments is making a wild snap judgement. This is so silly. Fizdale's job was to develop the youth while losing games. Really only Frank didnt show upticks in their games.

Now he's got another young roster, but its a balanced roster with depth at every position, albeit unproven and some very young. So lets fire him now? I love when folks are working with 5% of the story, only their narrative and demand wholesale changes based on those two things. You wanted to develop internally with youth, Knicks are continuing to do that and your first comment is "fire the coach"

I told you so!

what did you tell me?

Don’t get your hopes to high when it comes to the Knicks. I honestly believe you know the Knicks better than I do. Your in more touch than I am. But you constantly let your fandom get the better of you. You look to the media as your source for everything Knicks they build all the Knicks fans up with rumors stupid rumors too.

Right now your looking for some answers and basically looking for a silver lining in any mover from here on out. Randle is a good move and is Portis. I can find hope in those moves too.

Saying “I told you so!” Is just me being an idiot.

But I still want Fizdale gone before the season starts. He is also what is wrong with the Knicks hire a coach simply because he knows players stupid reason to hire a coach.

that is not why they hired him. Why do you tell yourself these things and cling to them like gospel?

There are only a couple stars. If you miss out on one what is plan b? Randle is a huge upside guy at 24 and already a proven highly EFF% NBA scorer. And the commitment is not 4-5 years. Knicks improved areas they needed, they added 24 year olds trending upward and veteran pros who are good shooters. They are setting up their young players to have quality support and they added a potential starter in Randle.

Did you want Kemba for the max? Cousins? Russell for the max?

Not replacing KP's talent hurt, but they tried and took good steps. This is another stage of trending in the right direction.

They are better today than before. I agree with you. But Fizdalenis an awful coach. It’s notngospel it just what it is. By December-January everyone here will want him gone.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:Fizzdale will certainly be fired sooner than later; it's a when question, not an if.

Right now, I think the only thing keeping him here is that firing him would be an aweful look. FO's first coaching hire was a disaster.

In the business world, as a general matter, the good companies cut their losses and move forward. I think the G-league coach will be our version of Nick Nurse. He will be part of the staff. the FO will get a chance to hear him more often; see how he thinks. And if he's good he'll be a candidate to save the franchise

Or maybe the Knicks will be better than you think this year? Look last year we clearly were tanking I admit that. This year despite what people say we will be a better team. Cant just fire him 1 year. Its not like Durant was gonna help us out next year if ever... coming back from that injury. Lets see what happens first

I said during the season I didn't mind the losing as much as the way we were playing. We were dumb and selfish. Fizzdale admitted as much himself though he blamed in on his players being more worried about their next contract. BTW is anyone else laughing at the fact that Mario found a home before Mudiay, Vonleh, Ellenson, Jenkins -- who else am I forgetting

If we were playing the game the right way, but making mistakes due to youth/inexperience, I'd feel differently

And to think Budenholzer wanted to be our coach

Chandler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:Fizzdale will certainly be fired sooner than later; it's a when question, not an if.

Right now, I think the only thing keeping him here is that firing him would be an aweful look. FO's first coaching hire was a disaster.

In the business world, as a general matter, the good companies cut their losses and move forward. I think the G-league coach will be our version of Nick Nurse. He will be part of the staff. the FO will get a chance to hear him more often; see how he thinks. And if he's good he'll be a candidate to save the franchise

Or maybe the Knicks will be better than you think this year? Look last year we clearly were tanking I admit that. This year despite what people say we will be a better team. Cant just fire him 1 year. Its not like Durant was gonna help us out next year if ever... coming back from that injury. Lets see what happens first

I said during the season I didn't mind the losing as much as the way we were playing. We were dumb and selfish. Fizzdale admitted as much himself though he blamed in on his players being more worried about their next contract. BTW is anyone else laughing at the fact that Mario found a home before Mudiay, Vonleh, Ellenson, Jenkins -- who else am I forgetting

If we were playing the game the right way, but making mistakes due to youth/inexperience, I'd feel differently

And to think Budenholzer wanted to be our coach

We are gonna be a lot better this year than last so not sure if your argument holds up

Hard to believe that some are upset that we won’t be the worst team in the NBA next year. We have upgraded the talent level from I drafted G league player and draft busts to legitimate NBA players to support our own drafted players. The roster is more balanced and the new guys are all short contracts that can be traded for assets. Sure we payed a premium for the shorter contracts but it doesn’t make them bad contracts.

You have to start somewhere, this seems like a rational next step for us in our climb from the cellar. People need to chill on the over the top freak out. We have decent players and maintained flexibility that a rebuilding team needs to make to clear the next hurdle.