PresIke wrote:fishmike wrote:more I think about Russell the more I dont like the idea. He's a TO prone jump shooter who doesnt get to the rim much, the line much or play much defense and gets paid like a star. Pass. Prove me wrong. Elf/Portis/Dotson and one of the Dallas picks with lottery protection or they get a future 2nd rounder. Let him go to Sota where he can KAT can average 30 a piece and win 40 games a year.
Yep.
He isn't the greatest at creating for his teammates based on assist ratio numbers. He's more of a scoring guard than a point, and I'm not convinced he's worth it.
I get that the draft is iffy this year, but I also heard on Knicks Film School that there have been very few point guards on highly successful teams in the past 10 years who have been high percentage of salary cap. There are really few PG's who've led teams to success who aren't Steph Curry.
Forget about just immediately following the trade, the reality is he's being paid quite a lot and would be the highest paid in the near future.
It's too much to pay a player that's not convincing as a real lead player on a good team.
How are the Warriors doing again? Oh right. The Nets had other pieces as can be evidenced by how they are doing this year without KD and with/without Kyrie.
It rings too similar to Marbury.
wait a minute, KNICKS FILM SCHOOL
what about Lowry, Kyrie, steph, all three are all star pg's the won the last 3 titles..
Russel would just be one piece of a puzzle, not the whole puzzle, Now you have your back court in order with Russell an RJ..you keep Randle and Morris, and ADD harrel in the off season
Russel
RJ
Morris
Randle
Harrel
Thats a good mix of vets and young players that can run or play half court..
Your signing Morris and Harrel to 2 yr contract deals, neither one are max players, so they wont expect 4 yr deals..
knicks1248 wrote:PresIke wrote:fishmike wrote:more I think about Russell the more I dont like the idea. He's a TO prone jump shooter who doesnt get to the rim much, the line much or play much defense and gets paid like a star. Pass. Prove me wrong. Elf/Portis/Dotson and one of the Dallas picks with lottery protection or they get a future 2nd rounder. Let him go to Sota where he can KAT can average 30 a piece and win 40 games a year.
Yep.
He isn't the greatest at creating for his teammates based on assist ratio numbers. He's more of a scoring guard than a point, and I'm not convinced he's worth it.
I get that the draft is iffy this year, but I also heard on Knicks Film School that there have been very few point guards on highly successful teams in the past 10 years who have been high percentage of salary cap. There are really few PG's who've led teams to success who aren't Steph Curry.
Forget about just immediately following the trade, the reality is he's being paid quite a lot and would be the highest paid in the near future.
It's too much to pay a player that's not convincing as a real lead player on a good team.
How are the Warriors doing again? Oh right. The Nets had other pieces as can be evidenced by how they are doing this year without KD and with/without Kyrie.
It rings too similar to Marbury.
wait a minute, KNICKS FILM SCHOOL
what about Lowry, Kyrie, steph, all three are all star pg's the won the last 3 titles..
Russel would just be one piece of a puzzle, not the whole puzzle, Now you have your back court in order with Russell an RJ..you keep Randle and Morris, and ADD harrel in the off season
Russel
RJ
Morris
Randle
Harrel
Thats a good mix of vets and young players that can run or play half court
The key is "high % of the salary cap." GSW got lucky because they signed Steph early to a deal that turned out to be a bargain. I'm not sure how much cap Kyrie took up with the Cavs when Love and Lebron was there, but Toronto had Lowry on a ridiculously good deal prior to their title run.
GustavBahler wrote:PresIke wrote:fishmike wrote:more I think about Russell the more I dont like the idea. He's a TO prone jump shooter who doesnt get to the rim much, the line much or play much defense and gets paid like a star. Pass. Prove me wrong. Elf/Portis/Dotson and one of the Dallas picks with lottery protection or they get a future 2nd rounder. Let him go to Sota where he can KAT can average 30 a piece and win 40 games a year.
Yep.
He isn't the greatest at creating for his teammates based on assist ratio numbers. He's more of a scoring guard than a point, and I'm not convinced he's worth it.
I get that the draft is iffy this year, but I also heard on Knicks Film School that there have been very few point guards on highly successful teams in the past 10 years who have been high percentage of salary cap. There are really few PG's who've led teams to success who aren't Steph Curry.
Forget about just immediately following the trade, the reality is he's being paid quite a lot and would be the highest paid in the near future.
It's too much to pay a player that's not convincing as a real lead player on a good team.
How are the Warriors doing again? Oh right. The Nets had other pieces as can be evidenced by how they are doing this year without KD and with/without Kyrie.
It rings too similar to Marbury.
Russell was good enough to lead the Nets to the playoffs without being star driven. mostly journeymen. As well as make the all star team that year. Room for improvement, but Russell already has shown he can get his team to punch above their weight.
or it could be a one-off from a guy playing for a big extension
Again... he's not a bad player. He IS a TO prone jump shooter who doesnt attack the rim or breakdown a defense for others. He's a very good passer, below average defender his best moment is leading the Nets to 42-40 in the terrible East. He's just not that valuable a player and doesnt move the needle enough for anything but expiring deals and MAYBE a protected pick. Otherwise you simply say no thanks
martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:knicks1248 wrote:PresIke wrote:fishmike wrote:more I think about Russell the more I dont like the idea. He's a TO prone jump shooter who doesnt get to the rim much, the line much or play much defense and gets paid like a star. Pass. Prove me wrong. Elf/Portis/Dotson and one of the Dallas picks with lottery protection or they get a future 2nd rounder. Let him go to Sota where he can KAT can average 30 a piece and win 40 games a year.
Yep.
He isn't the greatest at creating for his teammates based on assist ratio numbers. He's more of a scoring guard than a point, and I'm not convinced he's worth it.
I get that the draft is iffy this year, but I also heard on Knicks Film School that there have been very few point guards on highly successful teams in the past 10 years who have been high percentage of salary cap. There are really few PG's who've led teams to success who aren't Steph Curry.
Forget about just immediately following the trade, the reality is he's being paid quite a lot and would be the highest paid in the near future.
It's too much to pay a player that's not convincing as a real lead player on a good team.
How are the Warriors doing again? Oh right. The Nets had other pieces as can be evidenced by how they are doing this year without KD and with/without Kyrie.
It rings too similar to Marbury.
wait a minute, KNICKS FILM SCHOOL
what about Lowry, Kyrie, steph, all three are all star pg's the won the last 3 titles..
Russel would just be one piece of a puzzle, not the whole puzzle, Now you have your back court in order with Russell an RJ..you keep Randle and Morris, and ADD harrel in the off season
Russel
RJ
Morris
Randle
Harrel
Thats a good mix of vets and young players that can run or play half court
The key is "high % of the salary cap." GSW got lucky because they signed Steph early to a deal that turned out to be a bargain. I'm not sure how much cap Kyrie took up with the Cavs when Love and Lebron was there, but Toronto had Lowry on a ridiculously good deal prior to their title run.
+100
why you think DOLAN is hell bent on signing Masi
Lets not forget that The Raptors came very close to blowing that team up after three straight playoff failure's, and they had to sacrifice Derozen ( a fan favorite) in order to get better.
So when fans see certain players they like get traded, they really don't look at the big picture.
IDK why you want to hold on to player/s you have not been able to win with..
THATS THE FIRST WORDS PHIL SAID when ask why he would trade MELO (the most talented player on the team at the time) as much as i liked melo, he had a point, IMO Mills just made a really bad trade
Conf finals are not "Failures". And game 7 that ball don't bounce 76ers advance and Raptors no better or worse. what they did was move Derozen who was not easy to trade and got a free agent Kwahi who returned to form.
Really they went all in when they traded for Gasol who is older and on the down side of his career.
Plan B was the ball bounced out, Kwahi leaves and they have the cap space. Room to sign Siakim who blossomed.
Does 1248 want Ujiri if they don't win the chip?
Expiring Portis with Knox & D. Smith & protected Dallas pick is the most I offer. Remember Minnesota wanted GS or anyone to take on Andrew Wiggins contract. D.Lo make 30 mill a year.. a lot of loot but we can absorb it with losing too much flexibility.
TLover wrote:Expiring Portis with Knox & D. Smith & protected Dallas pick is the most I offer. Remember Minnesota wanted GS or anyone to take on Andrew Wiggins contract. D.Lo make 30 mill a year.. a lot of loot but we can absorb it with losing too much flexibility.
yup. Thats the offer and its fair. GS can piss off if they want more, I dont want Russell for more.
fishmike wrote:TLover wrote:Expiring Portis with Knox & D. Smith & protected Dallas pick is the most I offer. Remember Minnesota wanted GS or anyone to take on Andrew Wiggins contract. D.Lo make 30 mill a year.. a lot of loot but we can absorb it with losing too much flexibility.
yup. Thats the offer and its fair. GS can piss off if they want more, I dont want Russell for more.
I thought you just posted Russell was losing culture player -- something i kind of agree with
We will be absolute fools if we don't consider Russell's contract and absolute liability. Yes he's better than our pgs, but don't get fooled. He's not nearly as good as his cap number and that will way on us
GS should be willing to give him away just to get away from that number
No way i get close to offering these assets. Russell should be considered something of a salary dump on GS part. Not as big a dump as some (e.g. Chandler Parsons) but a dump nonetheless
TLover wrote:Expiring Portis with Knox & D. Smith & protected Dallas pick is the most I offer. Remember Minnesota wanted GS or anyone to take on Andrew Wiggins contract. D.Lo make 30 mill a year.. a lot of loot but we can absorb it with losing too much flexibility.
Twolves can easily beat that- Malik Beasley (good backup SG), Hernangomez (reasonable bench SF) and Turner (expiring $18mil), plus Nets 1st and or add one of their own. Twolves are trying to play hardball but everyone can see they just traded away their only PG
smackeddog wrote:TLover wrote:Expiring Portis with Knox & D. Smith & protected Dallas pick is the most I offer. Remember Minnesota wanted GS or anyone to take on Andrew Wiggins contract. D.Lo make 30 mill a year.. a lot of loot but we can absorb it with losing too much flexibility.
Twolves can easily beat that- Malik Beasley (good backup SG), Hernangomez (reasonable bench SF) and Turner (expiring $18mil), plus Nets 1st and or add one of their own. Twolves are trying to play hardball but everyone can see they just traded away their only PG
Beasley is a RFA. Theres nothing reasonable about Hernangomez, he simply sucks and we have just as much potential draft compensation than they do. All about willingness.
Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:TLover wrote:Expiring Portis with Knox & D. Smith & protected Dallas pick is the most I offer. Remember Minnesota wanted GS or anyone to take on Andrew Wiggins contract. D.Lo make 30 mill a year.. a lot of loot but we can absorb it with losing too much flexibility.
yup. Thats the offer and its fair. GS can piss off if they want more, I dont want Russell for more.
I thought you just posted Russell was losing culture player -- something i kind of agree with
We will be absolute fools if we don't consider Russell's contract and absolute liability. Yes he's better than our pgs, but don't get fooled. He's not nearly as good as his cap number and that will way on us
GS should be willing to give him away just to get away from that number
No way i get close to offering these assets. Russell should be considered something of a salary dump on GS part. Not as big a dump as some (e.g. Chandler Parsons) but a dump nonetheless
I did. He's good though, just not great. Portis/Knox/DSjr and a protected Dallas pick is about right. Those are very low level assets IMO and Russ does some things really well. He can obviously shoot it, he might be an underrated passer. I think he's a good fit next to RJ and we keep Frank so we can bring a defensive guy off the bench to help. Salary is a liability for sure but he's a clear upgrade. He's also 23. I also think being back in NY on the other side of the river might be a positive for him
martin wrote:
yup... he's not THAT bad but his D stinks. ITs not the year to measure that but its fair. He's a jump shooter. He's a salary dump. We get a bad salary but a talent upgrade. GS can enjoy their luxury bill when they are paying like $110mm to Curry/Klay/DRuss next year. Good roster management. Sorry... Im just so sick of Knicks helping other teams. Expiring deals.
His ranking is bad because GSW is really god awful this year.
We are not much better. My hope is we help facilitate his move to Minny.
Nalod wrote:His ranking is bad because GSW is really god awful this year.
We are not much better. My hope is we help facilitate his move to Minny.
His ranking wasn't really stellar last year, but you have a point. He's good player, but I'm not convinced he's worth the cap hit and he's still not the penetrating guard that we need.
BigDaddyG wrote:Nalod wrote:His ranking is bad because GSW is really god awful this year.
We are not much better. My hope is we help facilitate his move to Minny.
His ranking wasn't really stellar last year, but you have a point. He's good player, but I'm not convinced he's worth the cap hit and he's still not the penetrating guard that we need.
yup yup yup which is why its only an upgrade if the price is right.
BUT he's good and he can really shoot it and dont discount that. Also RJ (especially at SG) is a real beast getting to the rim. A great kick out option like Russell elevates his game IMO as well. Ideally we keep Frank so we can bring in a defensive guy as a back up or in 3 guard sets.
fishmike wrote:martin wrote:
yup... he's not THAT bad but his D stinks. ITs not the year to measure that but its fair. He's a jump shooter. He's a salary dump. We get a bad salary but a talent upgrade. GS can enjoy their luxury bill when they are paying like $110mm to Curry/Klay/DRuss next year. Good roster management. Sorry... Im just so sick of Knicks helping other teams. Expiring deals.
30 million. He's a liability at that number. resist the temptation. It will hurt the team more than it helps
fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Nalod wrote:His ranking is bad because GSW is really god awful this year.
We are not much better. My hope is we help facilitate his move to Minny.
His ranking wasn't really stellar last year, but you have a point. He's good player, but I'm not convinced he's worth the cap hit and he's still not the penetrating guard that we need.
yup yup yup which is why its only an upgrade if the price is right. BUT he's good and he can really shoot it and dont discount that. Also RJ (especially at SG) is a real beast getting to the rim. A great kick out option like Russell elevates his game IMO as well. Ideally we keep Frank so we can bring in a defensive guy as a back up or in 3 guard sets.
and we shouldn't discount that there are other shooting pgs in the world, including the draft. the fact that our FO has 3 who can't shoot doesn't mean they don't exist; just that our FO is dumb
He is way too big of a hit. If i were in charge they would need to attach an asset for us to take him with that number
let's also keep in mind we're not desperate. We stink. And we'll still stink with him. Better to play the youth this year, get a a better pick and let a competent FO build the team -- don't handicap them
fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Nalod wrote:His ranking is bad because GSW is really god awful this year.
We are not much better. My hope is we help facilitate his move to Minny.
His ranking wasn't really stellar last year, but you have a point. He's good player, but I'm not convinced he's worth the cap hit and he's still not the penetrating guard that we need.
yup yup yup which is why its only an upgrade if the price is right. BUT he's good and he can really shoot it and dont discount that. Also RJ (especially at SG) is a real beast getting to the rim. A great kick out option like Russell elevates his game IMO as well. Ideally we keep Frank so we can bring in a defensive guy as a back up or in 3 guard sets.
Wow...This dude was a -48 last night and his turnstile defense was worse than melo's on his worst day.
Yesterday was the first (whole)game i really watched of him this season...I might be having 2nd thoughts..lol
