Knicks · Tom Thibodeau 90 percent likely to be new coach of knicks. per cnnsi.com Jonathan Macri (page 2)
newyorknewyork wrote:knicks1248 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:knicks1248 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:There is no reason for a coaching change honestly. This isn't a Bucks situation where you needed the upgrade from Kidd to Bud. Miller is doing a good enough job with what he has had to work with. Which earns the ability maintain continuity, while Rose hopefully builds up a contender. From there we can see if Miller is the goods or not. If it was for a coach like Bud then sure. But Thibs isn't guranteed to move the needle all that much and could easily flame out while being the 4th coach in 4 yrs.You want miller base on a small sample size?
I think miller would still have a chance to be on the coaching staff, but you already know a new president is bringing in their own head coach. In most cases in order for a Interim coach to retain the position he has to over achieve..
Again if the option was to upgrade to a guy like Bud then sure. But if Thibs is the best option than we should expand Miller's sample size. While also hopefully upgrading the talent level and balancing the structure of the roster. Miller comes in to interm does a solid job, gets one of his better players traded away for future assets. Then new Prez comes in and replaces him with another coach.
Combination of coaching options, Miller not getting a fair shake, and roster, has me wanting him to get another yr as HC.
I do like the Jay Wright option though.
Consider the fact that we haven't hired a single head coach with a successful NBA track record since MDA, and we have only had success with experience head coaches
Notice when Woodson took over after MDA stepped down, he was able to do a much better job and got the team to the playoffs...IMO that's close to what it will take to for miller to stay on board as top dog.
He can't finish the season 10 to 15 games under 500
Woodson had a prime Melo who shot 60%+ from the field for the last month of the season to make the playoffs. We don't have such a player on this rosters.
Thibs had Towns, Wiggins, Butler, Teague and lost in the first rd as an 8th seed. Before that had Towns, Wiggins, Lavine, Rubio and netted 31 wins. We don't have anything close to even that level of talent.
Thibs is also 62 yrs old. Knicks aren't close to competing for anything relevant unless we get lucky this offseason. Why not wait for a better option?
You have a point, but I don't think Rose will continue with the youth movement seeing the epic failure of that rout over the last 5 seasons. With his relationship with dozens of presidents, GM's, coaches and players around the league and lot of solid assets to work with, its a safe bet that he's trading more than half the roster.
He may end up giving Thibs the GM and coach role
GustavBahler wrote:coach is a big hire, and big job and the critical bridge between the FO and players. If you are coming into a situation with the level of historic dysfunction that the Knicks have had you are not hanging the coaching gig on a guy with a couple decent months under his belt, you just are not doing that. Its not a reasonable or realistic expectation under any circumstances.HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
Wanting Miller to stay isnt about sentiment. He's doing a good job with a lottery team. The players seem to respect and play hard for him. Is good with Xs and Os, big on details. Miller worked his way up the organization.
Not so sure Thibs has a great rep outside of Ex-Bulls who he famously ran into the ground, with multiple players ending up in the hospital. KAT might be a Diva, but he is part of the younger NBA generation that Thibs apparently had trouble connecting with. Thibs is an old school coach, not confident he can connect with players who arent willing to be ridden as hard as his vets were in Chicago.
As a Knicks fan, if Thibs was introduced, there would be some questions Id like to see answered
What lessons have you learned from your last coaching gig? Do you believe in load mgmt for vets? Will anything be different from your last stop?
I dont see this move attracting elite players. They will see another coach on the Knicks coaching carousel.
Hopefully the next FO will ID some of the things that are working here and keep that and continue to grow that, and is it possible that includes Miller? Maybe, but its not as simple as "this guy has been good so he should stay." It just isnt and assuming it is and using that as fuel vs. the new FO doesnt make sense either.
As for Thibs? You cant say he doesnt have coaching chops and somehow the TWolves are used as a bad example but they won 47 games under Thibs and havent seen a win total like that since the KG/Spree/Cassel/Wally team and they have been worse without Thibs so there's that...
fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:coach is a big hire, and big job and the critical bridge between the FO and players. If you are coming into a situation with the level of historic dysfunction that the Knicks have had you are not hanging the coaching gig on a guy with a couple decent months under his belt, you just are not doing that. Its not a reasonable or realistic expectation under any circumstances.HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
Wanting Miller to stay isnt about sentiment. He's doing a good job with a lottery team. The players seem to respect and play hard for him. Is good with Xs and Os, big on details. Miller worked his way up the organization.
Not so sure Thibs has a great rep outside of Ex-Bulls who he famously ran into the ground, with multiple players ending up in the hospital. KAT might be a Diva, but he is part of the younger NBA generation that Thibs apparently had trouble connecting with. Thibs is an old school coach, not confident he can connect with players who arent willing to be ridden as hard as his vets were in Chicago.
As a Knicks fan, if Thibs was introduced, there would be some questions Id like to see answered
What lessons have you learned from your last coaching gig? Do you believe in load mgmt for vets? Will anything be different from your last stop?
I dont see this move attracting elite players. They will see another coach on the Knicks coaching carousel.
Hopefully the next FO will ID some of the things that are working here and keep that and continue to grow that, and is it possible that includes Miller? Maybe, but its not as simple as "this guy has been good so he should stay." It just isnt and assuming it is and using that as fuel vs. the new FO doesnt make sense either.
As for Thibs? You cant say he doesnt have coaching chops and somehow the TWolves are used as a bad example but they won 47 games under Thibs and havent seen a win total like that since the KG/Spree/Cassel/Wally team and they have been worse without Thibs so there's that...
+1
If the FO hire was some low-key, intra-organizational hire [imagine that], maybe Miller would be given the chance to remain as HC. Miller may be handling this line up and this FO tornado well, but have to agree. It just isn't going to happen.
fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:coach is a big hire, and big job and the critical bridge between the FO and players. If you are coming into a situation with the level of historic dysfunction that the Knicks have had you are not hanging the coaching gig on a guy with a couple decent months under his belt, you just are not doing that. Its not a reasonable or realistic expectation under any circumstances.HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
Wanting Miller to stay isnt about sentiment. He's doing a good job with a lottery team. The players seem to respect and play hard for him. Is good with Xs and Os, big on details. Miller worked his way up the organization.
Not so sure Thibs has a great rep outside of Ex-Bulls who he famously ran into the ground, with multiple players ending up in the hospital. KAT might be a Diva, but he is part of the younger NBA generation that Thibs apparently had trouble connecting with. Thibs is an old school coach, not confident he can connect with players who arent willing to be ridden as hard as his vets were in Chicago.
As a Knicks fan, if Thibs was introduced, there would be some questions Id like to see answered
What lessons have you learned from your last coaching gig? Do you believe in load mgmt for vets? Will anything be different from your last stop?
I dont see this move attracting elite players. They will see another coach on the Knicks coaching carousel.
Hopefully the next FO will ID some of the things that are working here and keep that and continue to grow that, and is it possible that includes Miller? Maybe, but its not as simple as "this guy has been good so he should stay." It just isnt and assuming it is and using that as fuel vs. the new FO doesnt make sense either.
As for Thibs? You cant say he doesnt have coaching chops and somehow the TWolves are used as a bad example but they won 47 games under Thibs and havent seen a win total like that since the KG/Spree/Cassel/Wally team and they have been worse without Thibs so there's that...
You just made a great case to never to promote an asst. coach. Miller has been acting like a "bridge". The players are responding, and putting in the effort. Miller just mentioned that he is in constant touch with Perry over who plays. Miller is doing his job, on and off the court.
The last thing the Knicks need to do is to fix something that isnt broken. Absent the team crashing and burning for the rest of the season, firing a coach who is doing his job is counterproductive. We're far enough away from the last coach to say that the improved play, (in spite of all the injuries) is a more than a bump from a change of coach.
2021 is a huge FA summer Giving Miller a season to make a case to stay on is the way to go. If it doesnt work out, then go for the splash hire in advance of free agency. Dont see the rush to replace Miller, not with our rep for keeping coaches on a short leash. Miller looks like a better coach for the job with his chops and experience at developing players.
GustavBahler wrote:The only thing I made a case for is folks to open their eyes to how the world works... today's topic is how to hire an NBA coach.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:coach is a big hire, and big job and the critical bridge between the FO and players. If you are coming into a situation with the level of historic dysfunction that the Knicks have had you are not hanging the coaching gig on a guy with a couple decent months under his belt, you just are not doing that. Its not a reasonable or realistic expectation under any circumstances.HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
Wanting Miller to stay isnt about sentiment. He's doing a good job with a lottery team. The players seem to respect and play hard for him. Is good with Xs and Os, big on details. Miller worked his way up the organization.
Not so sure Thibs has a great rep outside of Ex-Bulls who he famously ran into the ground, with multiple players ending up in the hospital. KAT might be a Diva, but he is part of the younger NBA generation that Thibs apparently had trouble connecting with. Thibs is an old school coach, not confident he can connect with players who arent willing to be ridden as hard as his vets were in Chicago.
As a Knicks fan, if Thibs was introduced, there would be some questions Id like to see answered
What lessons have you learned from your last coaching gig? Do you believe in load mgmt for vets? Will anything be different from your last stop?
I dont see this move attracting elite players. They will see another coach on the Knicks coaching carousel.
Hopefully the next FO will ID some of the things that are working here and keep that and continue to grow that, and is it possible that includes Miller? Maybe, but its not as simple as "this guy has been good so he should stay." It just isnt and assuming it is and using that as fuel vs. the new FO doesnt make sense either.
As for Thibs? You cant say he doesnt have coaching chops and somehow the TWolves are used as a bad example but they won 47 games under Thibs and havent seen a win total like that since the KG/Spree/Cassel/Wally team and they have been worse without Thibs so there's that...
You just made a great case to never to promote an asst. coach. Miller has been acting like a "bridge". The players are responding, and putting in the effort. Miller just mentioned that he is in constant touch with Perry over who plays. Miller is doing his job, on and off the court.
The last thing the Knicks need to do is to fix something that isnt broken. Absent the team crashing and burning for the rest of the season, firing a coach who is doing his job is counterproductive. We're far enough away from the last coach to say that the improved play, (in spite of all the injuries) is a more than a bump from a change of coach.
2021 is a huge FA summer Giving Miller a season to make a case to stay on is the way to go. If it doesnt work out, then go for the splash hire in advance of free agency. Dont see the rush to replace Miller, not with our rep for keeping coaches on a short leash. Miller looks like a better coach for the job with his chops and experience at developing players.
Do the Knicks have winning record under Miller? Are the a playoff team under Miller? Has any young player broken out under Miller?
Miller took a really garbage squad and make them slightly less garbage. That is not the same as doing a great job and cementing a permanent role. You missing some perspective here. Miller has done a nice job. He's coaching. Its not really anything that special.
Nobody is firing Mike Miller. We dont even had a FO right now. He's a interim coach and doing great in that capacity. Next FO gets to build their org how they see fit and Mike Miller has been ok. Try to have some perspective on Miller's "achievements"
Uptown wrote:Not a really a fan of hiring Thibs, but it makes zero sense to force him to add Miller and or Sullivan to his staff. Which ever coach the Knicks hire should be allowed to from his own staff.it comes down to why, and we wont have any visibility so its an issue of blind faith (always good for Knick fans).
If Rose hires Thibs as a "NY guy" who is going to push players to be tough then we are phucked.
But if they actually know Thibs as a basketball guy and share a vision regarding growing the team and org in a way where Thib's strengths are really capitalized on that's a different story. I feel like there are good and bad and in-between reasons to bring in a guy like Thibs. Of course we will never know until its too late but there are good scenarios where Thibs comes in and 100% is the right guy.
fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:The only thing I made a case for is folks to open their eyes to how the world works... today's topic is how to hire an NBA coach.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:coach is a big hire, and big job and the critical bridge between the FO and players. If you are coming into a situation with the level of historic dysfunction that the Knicks have had you are not hanging the coaching gig on a guy with a couple decent months under his belt, you just are not doing that. Its not a reasonable or realistic expectation under any circumstances.HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
Wanting Miller to stay isnt about sentiment. He's doing a good job with a lottery team. The players seem to respect and play hard for him. Is good with Xs and Os, big on details. Miller worked his way up the organization.
Not so sure Thibs has a great rep outside of Ex-Bulls who he famously ran into the ground, with multiple players ending up in the hospital. KAT might be a Diva, but he is part of the younger NBA generation that Thibs apparently had trouble connecting with. Thibs is an old school coach, not confident he can connect with players who arent willing to be ridden as hard as his vets were in Chicago.
As a Knicks fan, if Thibs was introduced, there would be some questions Id like to see answered
What lessons have you learned from your last coaching gig? Do you believe in load mgmt for vets? Will anything be different from your last stop?
I dont see this move attracting elite players. They will see another coach on the Knicks coaching carousel.
Hopefully the next FO will ID some of the things that are working here and keep that and continue to grow that, and is it possible that includes Miller? Maybe, but its not as simple as "this guy has been good so he should stay." It just isnt and assuming it is and using that as fuel vs. the new FO doesnt make sense either.
As for Thibs? You cant say he doesnt have coaching chops and somehow the TWolves are used as a bad example but they won 47 games under Thibs and havent seen a win total like that since the KG/Spree/Cassel/Wally team and they have been worse without Thibs so there's that...
You just made a great case to never to promote an asst. coach. Miller has been acting like a "bridge". The players are responding, and putting in the effort. Miller just mentioned that he is in constant touch with Perry over who plays. Miller is doing his job, on and off the court.
The last thing the Knicks need to do is to fix something that isnt broken. Absent the team crashing and burning for the rest of the season, firing a coach who is doing his job is counterproductive. We're far enough away from the last coach to say that the improved play, (in spite of all the injuries) is a more than a bump from a change of coach.
2021 is a huge FA summer Giving Miller a season to make a case to stay on is the way to go. If it doesnt work out, then go for the splash hire in advance of free agency. Dont see the rush to replace Miller, not with our rep for keeping coaches on a short leash. Miller looks like a better coach for the job with his chops and experience at developing players.
Do the Knicks have winning record under Miller? Are the a playoff team under Miller? Has any young player broken out under Miller?Miller took a really garbage squad and make them slightly less garbage. That is not the same as doing a great job and cementing a permanent role. You missing some perspective here. Miller has done a nice job. He's coaching. Its not really anything that special.
Nobody is firing Mike Miller. We dont even had a FO right now. He's a interim coach and doing great in that capacity. Next FO gets to build their org how they see fit and Mike Miller has been ok. Try to have some perspective on Miller's "achievements"
Its been more than a slighty better winning pct., even after trading away our best player. This team looks like it can at least challenge elite teams. With this roster, thats no small thing. Thibs had more by the time he left Minny, and did less or the same. Not to mention his relationship with his stars. That kind of a move isnt today's NBA. Most teams would give Miller another season, considering his time in the organization and making the team more competitive. Firing, replacing, Miller with a retread would be classic Knicks.
He'll probably try and avoid that by trying to pull off a big trade, at which point a more vet-type coach like Thibs makes more sense.
GustavBahler wrote:really? How are you quantifying that statement? You are hiring your next coach because despite losing to them we now look like a team that can be challenging? Do you have any examples of new GMs or FO hires that came in and kept the interim guy vs. hiring his own? I cant think of one example despite you saying "most teams" would give Miller a chance. I totally disagree. Most teams would follow through the hiring and building of their staff as planned even if the guy who took over midseason coached a .200 team to a .400 team.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:The only thing I made a case for is folks to open their eyes to how the world works... today's topic is how to hire an NBA coach.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:coach is a big hire, and big job and the critical bridge between the FO and players. If you are coming into a situation with the level of historic dysfunction that the Knicks have had you are not hanging the coaching gig on a guy with a couple decent months under his belt, you just are not doing that. Its not a reasonable or realistic expectation under any circumstances.HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
Wanting Miller to stay isnt about sentiment. He's doing a good job with a lottery team. The players seem to respect and play hard for him. Is good with Xs and Os, big on details. Miller worked his way up the organization.
Not so sure Thibs has a great rep outside of Ex-Bulls who he famously ran into the ground, with multiple players ending up in the hospital. KAT might be a Diva, but he is part of the younger NBA generation that Thibs apparently had trouble connecting with. Thibs is an old school coach, not confident he can connect with players who arent willing to be ridden as hard as his vets were in Chicago.
As a Knicks fan, if Thibs was introduced, there would be some questions Id like to see answered
What lessons have you learned from your last coaching gig? Do you believe in load mgmt for vets? Will anything be different from your last stop?
I dont see this move attracting elite players. They will see another coach on the Knicks coaching carousel.
Hopefully the next FO will ID some of the things that are working here and keep that and continue to grow that, and is it possible that includes Miller? Maybe, but its not as simple as "this guy has been good so he should stay." It just isnt and assuming it is and using that as fuel vs. the new FO doesnt make sense either.
As for Thibs? You cant say he doesnt have coaching chops and somehow the TWolves are used as a bad example but they won 47 games under Thibs and havent seen a win total like that since the KG/Spree/Cassel/Wally team and they have been worse without Thibs so there's that...
You just made a great case to never to promote an asst. coach. Miller has been acting like a "bridge". The players are responding, and putting in the effort. Miller just mentioned that he is in constant touch with Perry over who plays. Miller is doing his job, on and off the court.
The last thing the Knicks need to do is to fix something that isnt broken. Absent the team crashing and burning for the rest of the season, firing a coach who is doing his job is counterproductive. We're far enough away from the last coach to say that the improved play, (in spite of all the injuries) is a more than a bump from a change of coach.
2021 is a huge FA summer Giving Miller a season to make a case to stay on is the way to go. If it doesnt work out, then go for the splash hire in advance of free agency. Dont see the rush to replace Miller, not with our rep for keeping coaches on a short leash. Miller looks like a better coach for the job with his chops and experience at developing players.
Do the Knicks have winning record under Miller? Are the a playoff team under Miller? Has any young player broken out under Miller?Miller took a really garbage squad and make them slightly less garbage. That is not the same as doing a great job and cementing a permanent role. You missing some perspective here. Miller has done a nice job. He's coaching. Its not really anything that special.
Nobody is firing Mike Miller. We dont even had a FO right now. He's a interim coach and doing great in that capacity. Next FO gets to build their org how they see fit and Mike Miller has been ok. Try to have some perspective on Miller's "achievements"
Its been more than a slighty better winning pct., even after trading away our best player. This team looks like it can at least challenge elite teams. With this roster, thats no small thing. Thibs had more by the time he left Minny, and did less or the same. Not to mention his relationship with his stars. That kind of a move isnt today's NBA. Most teams would give Miller another season, considering his in the organization and making the team more competitive. Firing, replacing, Miller with a retread would be classic Knicks.
But as you feel "most teams" would do this any real world example would be more convincing.
I am not opposed to keeping Miller. He's been fine. This notion that he's been great and deserves a shot to be the perm HC and if he's not is just "more typical Knicks" is silly though and is fantasy based. I get why you want him to stay but you gotta open your eyes and be realistic on this one.
HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
This should be our agenda...We should be in full rebuild mode. The cycle of quick fixes is why we've been stuck on the hamster wheel for the past 20 years....Hopefully Rose is smart enough to see that.
Uptown wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
This should be our agenda...We should be in full rebuild mode. The cycle of quick fixes is why we've been stuck on the hamster wheel for the past 20 years....Hopefully Rose is smart enough to see that.
what is a full rebuild mode.. 12 guys that are 20 yrs or younger?
The entire roster is new with the exception of frank
fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:really? How are you quantifying that statement? You are hiring your next coach because despite losing to them we now look like a team that can be challenging? Do you have any examples of new GMs or FO hires that came in and kept the interim guy vs. hiring his own? I cant think of one example despite you saying "most teams" would give Miller a chance. I totally disagree. Most teams would follow through the hiring and building of their staff as planned even if the guy who took over midseason coached a .200 team to a .400 team.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:The only thing I made a case for is folks to open their eyes to how the world works... today's topic is how to hire an NBA coach.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:coach is a big hire, and big job and the critical bridge between the FO and players. If you are coming into a situation with the level of historic dysfunction that the Knicks have had you are not hanging the coaching gig on a guy with a couple decent months under his belt, you just are not doing that. Its not a reasonable or realistic expectation under any circumstances.HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
Wanting Miller to stay isnt about sentiment. He's doing a good job with a lottery team. The players seem to respect and play hard for him. Is good with Xs and Os, big on details. Miller worked his way up the organization.
Not so sure Thibs has a great rep outside of Ex-Bulls who he famously ran into the ground, with multiple players ending up in the hospital. KAT might be a Diva, but he is part of the younger NBA generation that Thibs apparently had trouble connecting with. Thibs is an old school coach, not confident he can connect with players who arent willing to be ridden as hard as his vets were in Chicago.
As a Knicks fan, if Thibs was introduced, there would be some questions Id like to see answered
What lessons have you learned from your last coaching gig? Do you believe in load mgmt for vets? Will anything be different from your last stop?
I dont see this move attracting elite players. They will see another coach on the Knicks coaching carousel.
Hopefully the next FO will ID some of the things that are working here and keep that and continue to grow that, and is it possible that includes Miller? Maybe, but its not as simple as "this guy has been good so he should stay." It just isnt and assuming it is and using that as fuel vs. the new FO doesnt make sense either.
As for Thibs? You cant say he doesnt have coaching chops and somehow the TWolves are used as a bad example but they won 47 games under Thibs and havent seen a win total like that since the KG/Spree/Cassel/Wally team and they have been worse without Thibs so there's that...
You just made a great case to never to promote an asst. coach. Miller has been acting like a "bridge". The players are responding, and putting in the effort. Miller just mentioned that he is in constant touch with Perry over who plays. Miller is doing his job, on and off the court.
The last thing the Knicks need to do is to fix something that isnt broken. Absent the team crashing and burning for the rest of the season, firing a coach who is doing his job is counterproductive. We're far enough away from the last coach to say that the improved play, (in spite of all the injuries) is a more than a bump from a change of coach.
2021 is a huge FA summer Giving Miller a season to make a case to stay on is the way to go. If it doesnt work out, then go for the splash hire in advance of free agency. Dont see the rush to replace Miller, not with our rep for keeping coaches on a short leash. Miller looks like a better coach for the job with his chops and experience at developing players.
Do the Knicks have winning record under Miller? Are the a playoff team under Miller? Has any young player broken out under Miller?Miller took a really garbage squad and make them slightly less garbage. That is not the same as doing a great job and cementing a permanent role. You missing some perspective here. Miller has done a nice job. He's coaching. Its not really anything that special.
Nobody is firing Mike Miller. We dont even had a FO right now. He's a interim coach and doing great in that capacity. Next FO gets to build their org how they see fit and Mike Miller has been ok. Try to have some perspective on Miller's "achievements"
Its been more than a slighty better winning pct., even after trading away our best player. This team looks like it can at least challenge elite teams. With this roster, thats no small thing. Thibs had more by the time he left Minny, and did less or the same. Not to mention his relationship with his stars. That kind of a move isnt today's NBA. Most teams would give Miller another season, considering his in the organization and making the team more competitive. Firing, replacing, Miller with a retread would be classic Knicks.
But as you feel "most teams" would do this any real world example would be more convincing.
I am not opposed to keeping Miller. He's been fine. This notion that he's been great and deserves a shot to be the perm HC and if he's not is just "more typical Knicks" is silly though and is fantasy based. I get why you want him to stay but you gotta open your eyes and be realistic on this one.
Most teams would put more stock in hoe Miller got to this point. As you know, Miller ran the G-league development tesm. Won a title. Did a great job there. Was asked to be an asst for Fizdale, even though Fizdale didnt want him or other G league coaches who came with him. Was reported that there was little if any communication between them.
Not long after being promoted to interim HC. He gets a team which was setting franchise records for losing, and gets them playing like a 7th seed, by his record since taking over.
Most teams would give weight to the fact that this isnt an asst who came with one of the many Knicks HCs Dolan is still paying. Miller worked his way up the ranks, and has aquitted himself on every level. Most teams consider that a good reason to give a coach like Miller a full season as coach, from camp on.
If there were sone hot shot coach that was on the Knicks radar, and the coach was interested, thats one thing. A coach who wasnt very good when he left his last stop, has trouble connecting with youngers players, is another.
fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:really? How are you quantifying that statement? You are hiring your next coach because despite losing to them we now look like a team that can be challenging? Do you have any examples of new GMs or FO hires that came in and kept the interim guy vs. hiring his own? I cant think of one example despite you saying "most teams" would give Miller a chance. I totally disagree. Most teams would follow through the hiring and building of their staff as planned even if the guy who took over midseason coached a .200 team to a .400 team.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:The only thing I made a case for is folks to open their eyes to how the world works... today's topic is how to hire an NBA coach.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:coach is a big hire, and big job and the critical bridge between the FO and players. If you are coming into a situation with the level of historic dysfunction that the Knicks have had you are not hanging the coaching gig on a guy with a couple decent months under his belt, you just are not doing that. Its not a reasonable or realistic expectation under any circumstances.HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
Wanting Miller to stay isnt about sentiment. He's doing a good job with a lottery team. The players seem to respect and play hard for him. Is good with Xs and Os, big on details. Miller worked his way up the organization.
Not so sure Thibs has a great rep outside of Ex-Bulls who he famously ran into the ground, with multiple players ending up in the hospital. KAT might be a Diva, but he is part of the younger NBA generation that Thibs apparently had trouble connecting with. Thibs is an old school coach, not confident he can connect with players who arent willing to be ridden as hard as his vets were in Chicago.
As a Knicks fan, if Thibs was introduced, there would be some questions Id like to see answered
What lessons have you learned from your last coaching gig? Do you believe in load mgmt for vets? Will anything be different from your last stop?
I dont see this move attracting elite players. They will see another coach on the Knicks coaching carousel.
Hopefully the next FO will ID some of the things that are working here and keep that and continue to grow that, and is it possible that includes Miller? Maybe, but its not as simple as "this guy has been good so he should stay." It just isnt and assuming it is and using that as fuel vs. the new FO doesnt make sense either.
As for Thibs? You cant say he doesnt have coaching chops and somehow the TWolves are used as a bad example but they won 47 games under Thibs and havent seen a win total like that since the KG/Spree/Cassel/Wally team and they have been worse without Thibs so there's that...
You just made a great case to never to promote an asst. coach. Miller has been acting like a "bridge". The players are responding, and putting in the effort. Miller just mentioned that he is in constant touch with Perry over who plays. Miller is doing his job, on and off the court.
The last thing the Knicks need to do is to fix something that isnt broken. Absent the team crashing and burning for the rest of the season, firing a coach who is doing his job is counterproductive. We're far enough away from the last coach to say that the improved play, (in spite of all the injuries) is a more than a bump from a change of coach.
2021 is a huge FA summer Giving Miller a season to make a case to stay on is the way to go. If it doesnt work out, then go for the splash hire in advance of free agency. Dont see the rush to replace Miller, not with our rep for keeping coaches on a short leash. Miller looks like a better coach for the job with his chops and experience at developing players.
Do the Knicks have winning record under Miller? Are the a playoff team under Miller? Has any young player broken out under Miller?Miller took a really garbage squad and make them slightly less garbage. That is not the same as doing a great job and cementing a permanent role. You missing some perspective here. Miller has done a nice job. He's coaching. Its not really anything that special.
Nobody is firing Mike Miller. We dont even had a FO right now. He's a interim coach and doing great in that capacity. Next FO gets to build their org how they see fit and Mike Miller has been ok. Try to have some perspective on Miller's "achievements"
Its been more than a slighty better winning pct., even after trading away our best player. This team looks like it can at least challenge elite teams. With this roster, thats no small thing. Thibs had more by the time he left Minny, and did less or the same. Not to mention his relationship with his stars. That kind of a move isnt today's NBA. Most teams would give Miller another season, considering his in the organization and making the team more competitive. Firing, replacing, Miller with a retread would be classic Knicks.
But as you feel "most teams" would do this any real world example would be more convincing.
I am not opposed to keeping Miller. He's been fine. This notion that he's been great and deserves a shot to be the perm HC and if he's not is just "more typical Knicks" is silly though and is fantasy based. I get why you want him to stay but you gotta open your eyes and be realistic on this one.
when are we going to start building?
I keep Miller because he's done a pretty good job, seems like a real HC with blue collar appeal, and I think he's a good match for what we have as a roster at the moment. Which is young and still building.
I keep him because he seems like a great teacher, and we have so many young guys that need to learn and become better pros.
I keep him so that maybe some of our players can have the same coach for more than one season.
I keep him because I don't think Thibs or anyone else is going to make a material impact to the W/L record with what will likely be our roster next year.
Are there better coaches out there? Absolutely.
Do any of them want to come here? And, if they did, how much of a difference would they make?
I'd also argue that having Miller in year 2 puts us on a better footing to start next year successfully. We're slow out of the gate every year because there has been enormous turnover every summer, either with the FO, coach or roster.
Give me Miller next year, VanVleet and most of the roster back, and I think we can aim for 36-44 wins, and maybe put us on a solid footing to make a pitch to Giannis Antetokounmpo coming in in 2021 and taking a solid, respectable roster to the finals out of the east.
GustavBahler wrote:We all know Miller's resume and like what he's done. "Most teams" is not evidence. What you are asking/hoping is not normal and should not be expected.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:really? How are you quantifying that statement? You are hiring your next coach because despite losing to them we now look like a team that can be challenging? Do you have any examples of new GMs or FO hires that came in and kept the interim guy vs. hiring his own? I cant think of one example despite you saying "most teams" would give Miller a chance. I totally disagree. Most teams would follow through the hiring and building of their staff as planned even if the guy who took over midseason coached a .200 team to a .400 team.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:The only thing I made a case for is folks to open their eyes to how the world works... today's topic is how to hire an NBA coach.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:coach is a big hire, and big job and the critical bridge between the FO and players. If you are coming into a situation with the level of historic dysfunction that the Knicks have had you are not hanging the coaching gig on a guy with a couple decent months under his belt, you just are not doing that. Its not a reasonable or realistic expectation under any circumstances.HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
Wanting Miller to stay isnt about sentiment. He's doing a good job with a lottery team. The players seem to respect and play hard for him. Is good with Xs and Os, big on details. Miller worked his way up the organization.
Not so sure Thibs has a great rep outside of Ex-Bulls who he famously ran into the ground, with multiple players ending up in the hospital. KAT might be a Diva, but he is part of the younger NBA generation that Thibs apparently had trouble connecting with. Thibs is an old school coach, not confident he can connect with players who arent willing to be ridden as hard as his vets were in Chicago.
As a Knicks fan, if Thibs was introduced, there would be some questions Id like to see answered
What lessons have you learned from your last coaching gig? Do you believe in load mgmt for vets? Will anything be different from your last stop?
I dont see this move attracting elite players. They will see another coach on the Knicks coaching carousel.
Hopefully the next FO will ID some of the things that are working here and keep that and continue to grow that, and is it possible that includes Miller? Maybe, but its not as simple as "this guy has been good so he should stay." It just isnt and assuming it is and using that as fuel vs. the new FO doesnt make sense either.
As for Thibs? You cant say he doesnt have coaching chops and somehow the TWolves are used as a bad example but they won 47 games under Thibs and havent seen a win total like that since the KG/Spree/Cassel/Wally team and they have been worse without Thibs so there's that...
You just made a great case to never to promote an asst. coach. Miller has been acting like a "bridge". The players are responding, and putting in the effort. Miller just mentioned that he is in constant touch with Perry over who plays. Miller is doing his job, on and off the court.
The last thing the Knicks need to do is to fix something that isnt broken. Absent the team crashing and burning for the rest of the season, firing a coach who is doing his job is counterproductive. We're far enough away from the last coach to say that the improved play, (in spite of all the injuries) is a more than a bump from a change of coach.
2021 is a huge FA summer Giving Miller a season to make a case to stay on is the way to go. If it doesnt work out, then go for the splash hire in advance of free agency. Dont see the rush to replace Miller, not with our rep for keeping coaches on a short leash. Miller looks like a better coach for the job with his chops and experience at developing players.
Do the Knicks have winning record under Miller? Are the a playoff team under Miller? Has any young player broken out under Miller?Miller took a really garbage squad and make them slightly less garbage. That is not the same as doing a great job and cementing a permanent role. You missing some perspective here. Miller has done a nice job. He's coaching. Its not really anything that special.
Nobody is firing Mike Miller. We dont even had a FO right now. He's a interim coach and doing great in that capacity. Next FO gets to build their org how they see fit and Mike Miller has been ok. Try to have some perspective on Miller's "achievements"
Its been more than a slighty better winning pct., even after trading away our best player. This team looks like it can at least challenge elite teams. With this roster, thats no small thing. Thibs had more by the time he left Minny, and did less or the same. Not to mention his relationship with his stars. That kind of a move isnt today's NBA. Most teams would give Miller another season, considering his in the organization and making the team more competitive. Firing, replacing, Miller with a retread would be classic Knicks.
But as you feel "most teams" would do this any real world example would be more convincing.
I am not opposed to keeping Miller. He's been fine. This notion that he's been great and deserves a shot to be the perm HC and if he's not is just "more typical Knicks" is silly though and is fantasy based. I get why you want him to stay but you gotta open your eyes and be realistic on this one.
Most teams would put more stock in hoe Miller got to this point. As you know, Miller ran the G-league development tesm. Won a title. Did a great job there. Was asked to be an asst for Fizdale, even though Fizdale didnt want him or other G league coaches who came with him. Was reported that there was little if any communication between them.
Not long after being promoted to interim HC. He gets a team which was setting franchise records for losing, and gets them playing like a 7th seed, by his record since taking over.
Most teams would give weight to the fact that this isnt an asst who came with one of the many Knicks HCs Dolan is still paying. Miller worked his way up the ranks, and has aquitted himself on every level. Most teams consider that a good reason to give a coach like Miller a full season as coach, from camp on.
If there were sone hot shot coach that was on the Knicks radar, and the coach was interested, thats one thing. A coach who wasnt very good when he left his last stop, has trouble connecting with youngers players, is another.
franco12 wrote:the reasons you want to keep him should be the basic requirements of your coach. We have had so many years of dysfunction I think you guys see an ounce of normalcy and you covet it like rain in the desert.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:really? How are you quantifying that statement? You are hiring your next coach because despite losing to them we now look like a team that can be challenging? Do you have any examples of new GMs or FO hires that came in and kept the interim guy vs. hiring his own? I cant think of one example despite you saying "most teams" would give Miller a chance. I totally disagree. Most teams would follow through the hiring and building of their staff as planned even if the guy who took over midseason coached a .200 team to a .400 team.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:The only thing I made a case for is folks to open their eyes to how the world works... today's topic is how to hire an NBA coach.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:coach is a big hire, and big job and the critical bridge between the FO and players. If you are coming into a situation with the level of historic dysfunction that the Knicks have had you are not hanging the coaching gig on a guy with a couple decent months under his belt, you just are not doing that. Its not a reasonable or realistic expectation under any circumstances.HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
Wanting Miller to stay isnt about sentiment. He's doing a good job with a lottery team. The players seem to respect and play hard for him. Is good with Xs and Os, big on details. Miller worked his way up the organization.
Not so sure Thibs has a great rep outside of Ex-Bulls who he famously ran into the ground, with multiple players ending up in the hospital. KAT might be a Diva, but he is part of the younger NBA generation that Thibs apparently had trouble connecting with. Thibs is an old school coach, not confident he can connect with players who arent willing to be ridden as hard as his vets were in Chicago.
As a Knicks fan, if Thibs was introduced, there would be some questions Id like to see answered
What lessons have you learned from your last coaching gig? Do you believe in load mgmt for vets? Will anything be different from your last stop?
I dont see this move attracting elite players. They will see another coach on the Knicks coaching carousel.
Hopefully the next FO will ID some of the things that are working here and keep that and continue to grow that, and is it possible that includes Miller? Maybe, but its not as simple as "this guy has been good so he should stay." It just isnt and assuming it is and using that as fuel vs. the new FO doesnt make sense either.
As for Thibs? You cant say he doesnt have coaching chops and somehow the TWolves are used as a bad example but they won 47 games under Thibs and havent seen a win total like that since the KG/Spree/Cassel/Wally team and they have been worse without Thibs so there's that...
You just made a great case to never to promote an asst. coach. Miller has been acting like a "bridge". The players are responding, and putting in the effort. Miller just mentioned that he is in constant touch with Perry over who plays. Miller is doing his job, on and off the court.
The last thing the Knicks need to do is to fix something that isnt broken. Absent the team crashing and burning for the rest of the season, firing a coach who is doing his job is counterproductive. We're far enough away from the last coach to say that the improved play, (in spite of all the injuries) is a more than a bump from a change of coach.
2021 is a huge FA summer Giving Miller a season to make a case to stay on is the way to go. If it doesnt work out, then go for the splash hire in advance of free agency. Dont see the rush to replace Miller, not with our rep for keeping coaches on a short leash. Miller looks like a better coach for the job with his chops and experience at developing players.
Do the Knicks have winning record under Miller? Are the a playoff team under Miller? Has any young player broken out under Miller?Miller took a really garbage squad and make them slightly less garbage. That is not the same as doing a great job and cementing a permanent role. You missing some perspective here. Miller has done a nice job. He's coaching. Its not really anything that special.
Nobody is firing Mike Miller. We dont even had a FO right now. He's a interim coach and doing great in that capacity. Next FO gets to build their org how they see fit and Mike Miller has been ok. Try to have some perspective on Miller's "achievements"
Its been more than a slighty better winning pct., even after trading away our best player. This team looks like it can at least challenge elite teams. With this roster, thats no small thing. Thibs had more by the time he left Minny, and did less or the same. Not to mention his relationship with his stars. That kind of a move isnt today's NBA. Most teams would give Miller another season, considering his in the organization and making the team more competitive. Firing, replacing, Miller with a retread would be classic Knicks.
But as you feel "most teams" would do this any real world example would be more convincing.
I am not opposed to keeping Miller. He's been fine. This notion that he's been great and deserves a shot to be the perm HC and if he's not is just "more typical Knicks" is silly though and is fantasy based. I get why you want him to stay but you gotta open your eyes and be realistic on this one.
when are we going to start building?
I keep Miller because he's done a pretty good job, seems like a real HC with blue collar appeal, and I think he's a good match for what we have as a roster at the moment. Which is young and still building.
I keep him because he seems like a great teacher, and we have so many young guys that need to learn and become better pros.
I keep him so that maybe some of our players can have the same coach for more than one season.
I keep him because I don't think Thibs or anyone else is going to make a material impact to the W/L record with what will likely be our roster next year.
Are there better coaches out there? Absolutely.
Do any of them want to come here? And, if they did, how much of a difference would they make?
I'd also argue that having Miller in year 2 puts us on a better footing to start next year successfully. We're slow out of the gate every year because there has been enormous turnover every summer, either with the FO, coach or roster.
Give me Miller next year, VanVleet and most of the roster back, and I think we can aim for 36-44 wins, and maybe put us on a solid footing to make a pitch to Giannis Antetokounmpo coming in in 2021 and taking a solid, respectable roster to the finals out of the east.
Everyone knows Miller's resume and the job he's done riding our vets to a .400 record. Next FO might keep for the bold, but of course would never admit it. Miller has proven to work hard and do well with the players. That is basic stuff. Knick fans need to stop comparing the team to prior teams, and start comparing to the rest of the NBA.
Mike Miller has been with the team for like 20 minutes and is an interim coach. The continuity argument doesnt really stick either
GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:really? How are you quantifying that statement? You are hiring your next coach because despite losing to them we now look like a team that can be challenging? Do you have any examples of new GMs or FO hires that came in and kept the interim guy vs. hiring his own? I cant think of one example despite you saying "most teams" would give Miller a chance. I totally disagree. Most teams would follow through the hiring and building of their staff as planned even if the guy who took over midseason coached a .200 team to a .400 team.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:The only thing I made a case for is folks to open their eyes to how the world works... today's topic is how to hire an NBA coach.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:coach is a big hire, and big job and the critical bridge between the FO and players. If you are coming into a situation with the level of historic dysfunction that the Knicks have had you are not hanging the coaching gig on a guy with a couple decent months under his belt, you just are not doing that. Its not a reasonable or realistic expectation under any circumstances.HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
Wanting Miller to stay isnt about sentiment. He's doing a good job with a lottery team. The players seem to respect and play hard for him. Is good with Xs and Os, big on details. Miller worked his way up the organization.
Not so sure Thibs has a great rep outside of Ex-Bulls who he famously ran into the ground, with multiple players ending up in the hospital. KAT might be a Diva, but he is part of the younger NBA generation that Thibs apparently had trouble connecting with. Thibs is an old school coach, not confident he can connect with players who arent willing to be ridden as hard as his vets were in Chicago.
As a Knicks fan, if Thibs was introduced, there would be some questions Id like to see answered
What lessons have you learned from your last coaching gig? Do you believe in load mgmt for vets? Will anything be different from your last stop?
I dont see this move attracting elite players. They will see another coach on the Knicks coaching carousel.
Hopefully the next FO will ID some of the things that are working here and keep that and continue to grow that, and is it possible that includes Miller? Maybe, but its not as simple as "this guy has been good so he should stay." It just isnt and assuming it is and using that as fuel vs. the new FO doesnt make sense either.
As for Thibs? You cant say he doesnt have coaching chops and somehow the TWolves are used as a bad example but they won 47 games under Thibs and havent seen a win total like that since the KG/Spree/Cassel/Wally team and they have been worse without Thibs so there's that...
You just made a great case to never to promote an asst. coach. Miller has been acting like a "bridge". The players are responding, and putting in the effort. Miller just mentioned that he is in constant touch with Perry over who plays. Miller is doing his job, on and off the court.
The last thing the Knicks need to do is to fix something that isnt broken. Absent the team crashing and burning for the rest of the season, firing a coach who is doing his job is counterproductive. We're far enough away from the last coach to say that the improved play, (in spite of all the injuries) is a more than a bump from a change of coach.
2021 is a huge FA summer Giving Miller a season to make a case to stay on is the way to go. If it doesnt work out, then go for the splash hire in advance of free agency. Dont see the rush to replace Miller, not with our rep for keeping coaches on a short leash. Miller looks like a better coach for the job with his chops and experience at developing players.
Do the Knicks have winning record under Miller? Are the a playoff team under Miller? Has any young player broken out under Miller?Miller took a really garbage squad and make them slightly less garbage. That is not the same as doing a great job and cementing a permanent role. You missing some perspective here. Miller has done a nice job. He's coaching. Its not really anything that special.
Nobody is firing Mike Miller. We dont even had a FO right now. He's a interim coach and doing great in that capacity. Next FO gets to build their org how they see fit and Mike Miller has been ok. Try to have some perspective on Miller's "achievements"
Its been more than a slighty better winning pct., even after trading away our best player. This team looks like it can at least challenge elite teams. With this roster, thats no small thing. Thibs had more by the time he left Minny, and did less or the same. Not to mention his relationship with his stars. That kind of a move isnt today's NBA. Most teams would give Miller another season, considering his in the organization and making the team more competitive. Firing, replacing, Miller with a retread would be classic Knicks.
But as you feel "most teams" would do this any real world example would be more convincing.
I am not opposed to keeping Miller. He's been fine. This notion that he's been great and deserves a shot to be the perm HC and if he's not is just "more typical Knicks" is silly though and is fantasy based. I get why you want him to stay but you gotta open your eyes and be realistic on this one.
Most teams would put more stock in hoe Miller got to this point. As you know, Miller ran the G-league development tesm. Won a title. Did a great job there. Was asked to be an asst for Fizdale, even though Fizdale didnt want him or other G league coaches who came with him. Was reported that there was little if any communication between them.
Not long after being promoted to interim HC. He gets a team which was setting franchise records for losing, and gets them playing like a 7th seed, by his record since taking over.
Most teams would give weight to the fact that this isnt an asst who came with one of the many Knicks HCs Dolan is still paying. Miller worked his way up the ranks, and has aquitted himself on every level. Most teams consider that a good reason to give a coach like Miller a full season as coach, from camp on.
If there were sone hot shot coach that was on the Knicks radar, and the coach was interested, thats one thing. A coach who wasnt very good when he left his last stop, has trouble connecting with youngers players, is another.
"most teams", Not really.
Here is the coach of the years that have made it to the NBA as head coaches;
1. Quinn Snyder
2. Nick Nurse
3. Mike Miller
That's it. Snyder and Nurse with different organizations. Curious that Stackhouse never got the call. He as a hot commodity after a very good run in the Gleague.
No title in Westchester. The Aero's team he was an assistant.
Maybe if Mills was still running it they would keep him. The article said they will offer him a position.
"Most" teams don't change coaches like we do, nor go thru team presidents. 5 in the last 10 years (counting rose).
We are not most teams. That's not a compliment!
Miller ascended and was promoted based on merit. I don't think other NBA teams will come calling but can't see this interim gig as anyway detrimental to his career.
fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:We all know Miller's resume and like what he's done. "Most teams" is not evidence. What you are asking/hoping is not normal and should not be expected.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:really? How are you quantifying that statement? You are hiring your next coach because despite losing to them we now look like a team that can be challenging? Do you have any examples of new GMs or FO hires that came in and kept the interim guy vs. hiring his own? I cant think of one example despite you saying "most teams" would give Miller a chance. I totally disagree. Most teams would follow through the hiring and building of their staff as planned even if the guy who took over midseason coached a .200 team to a .400 team.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:The only thing I made a case for is folks to open their eyes to how the world works... today's topic is how to hire an NBA coach.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:coach is a big hire, and big job and the critical bridge between the FO and players. If you are coming into a situation with the level of historic dysfunction that the Knicks have had you are not hanging the coaching gig on a guy with a couple decent months under his belt, you just are not doing that. Its not a reasonable or realistic expectation under any circumstances.HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
Wanting Miller to stay isnt about sentiment. He's doing a good job with a lottery team. The players seem to respect and play hard for him. Is good with Xs and Os, big on details. Miller worked his way up the organization.
Not so sure Thibs has a great rep outside of Ex-Bulls who he famously ran into the ground, with multiple players ending up in the hospital. KAT might be a Diva, but he is part of the younger NBA generation that Thibs apparently had trouble connecting with. Thibs is an old school coach, not confident he can connect with players who arent willing to be ridden as hard as his vets were in Chicago.
As a Knicks fan, if Thibs was introduced, there would be some questions Id like to see answered
What lessons have you learned from your last coaching gig? Do you believe in load mgmt for vets? Will anything be different from your last stop?
I dont see this move attracting elite players. They will see another coach on the Knicks coaching carousel.
Hopefully the next FO will ID some of the things that are working here and keep that and continue to grow that, and is it possible that includes Miller? Maybe, but its not as simple as "this guy has been good so he should stay." It just isnt and assuming it is and using that as fuel vs. the new FO doesnt make sense either.
As for Thibs? You cant say he doesnt have coaching chops and somehow the TWolves are used as a bad example but they won 47 games under Thibs and havent seen a win total like that since the KG/Spree/Cassel/Wally team and they have been worse without Thibs so there's that...
You just made a great case to never to promote an asst. coach. Miller has been acting like a "bridge". The players are responding, and putting in the effort. Miller just mentioned that he is in constant touch with Perry over who plays. Miller is doing his job, on and off the court.
The last thing the Knicks need to do is to fix something that isnt broken. Absent the team crashing and burning for the rest of the season, firing a coach who is doing his job is counterproductive. We're far enough away from the last coach to say that the improved play, (in spite of all the injuries) is a more than a bump from a change of coach.
2021 is a huge FA summer Giving Miller a season to make a case to stay on is the way to go. If it doesnt work out, then go for the splash hire in advance of free agency. Dont see the rush to replace Miller, not with our rep for keeping coaches on a short leash. Miller looks like a better coach for the job with his chops and experience at developing players.
Do the Knicks have winning record under Miller? Are the a playoff team under Miller? Has any young player broken out under Miller?Miller took a really garbage squad and make them slightly less garbage. That is not the same as doing a great job and cementing a permanent role. You missing some perspective here. Miller has done a nice job. He's coaching. Its not really anything that special.
Nobody is firing Mike Miller. We dont even had a FO right now. He's a interim coach and doing great in that capacity. Next FO gets to build their org how they see fit and Mike Miller has been ok. Try to have some perspective on Miller's "achievements"
Its been more than a slighty better winning pct., even after trading away our best player. This team looks like it can at least challenge elite teams. With this roster, thats no small thing. Thibs had more by the time he left Minny, and did less or the same. Not to mention his relationship with his stars. That kind of a move isnt today's NBA. Most teams would give Miller another season, considering his in the organization and making the team more competitive. Firing, replacing, Miller with a retread would be classic Knicks.
But as you feel "most teams" would do this any real world example would be more convincing.
I am not opposed to keeping Miller. He's been fine. This notion that he's been great and deserves a shot to be the perm HC and if he's not is just "more typical Knicks" is silly though and is fantasy based. I get why you want him to stay but you gotta open your eyes and be realistic on this one.
Most teams would put more stock in hoe Miller got to this point. As you know, Miller ran the G-league development tesm. Won a title. Did a great job there. Was asked to be an asst for Fizdale, even though Fizdale didnt want him or other G league coaches who came with him. Was reported that there was little if any communication between them.
Not long after being promoted to interim HC. He gets a team which was setting franchise records for losing, and gets them playing like a 7th seed, by his record since taking over.
Most teams would give weight to the fact that this isnt an asst who came with one of the many Knicks HCs Dolan is still paying. Miller worked his way up the ranks, and has aquitted himself on every level. Most teams consider that a good reason to give a coach like Miller a full season as coach, from camp on.
If there were sone hot shot coach that was on the Knicks radar, and the coach was interested, thats one thing. A coach who wasnt very good when he left his last stop, has trouble connecting with youngers players, is another.
You want me to quantify it? T+P=0
Time with a company working up the company ladder. Plus performance on the job, equals opportunity. Most teams would reward Miller's performance from the G league to the pros with more time. That is unless an elite coach is available. Dont consider Thibs to be one at this point.
GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:We all know Miller's resume and like what he's done. "Most teams" is not evidence. What you are asking/hoping is not normal and should not be expected.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:really? How are you quantifying that statement? You are hiring your next coach because despite losing to them we now look like a team that can be challenging? Do you have any examples of new GMs or FO hires that came in and kept the interim guy vs. hiring his own? I cant think of one example despite you saying "most teams" would give Miller a chance. I totally disagree. Most teams would follow through the hiring and building of their staff as planned even if the guy who took over midseason coached a .200 team to a .400 team.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:The only thing I made a case for is folks to open their eyes to how the world works... today's topic is how to hire an NBA coach.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:coach is a big hire, and big job and the critical bridge between the FO and players. If you are coming into a situation with the level of historic dysfunction that the Knicks have had you are not hanging the coaching gig on a guy with a couple decent months under his belt, you just are not doing that. Its not a reasonable or realistic expectation under any circumstances.HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
Wanting Miller to stay isnt about sentiment. He's doing a good job with a lottery team. The players seem to respect and play hard for him. Is good with Xs and Os, big on details. Miller worked his way up the organization.
Not so sure Thibs has a great rep outside of Ex-Bulls who he famously ran into the ground, with multiple players ending up in the hospital. KAT might be a Diva, but he is part of the younger NBA generation that Thibs apparently had trouble connecting with. Thibs is an old school coach, not confident he can connect with players who arent willing to be ridden as hard as his vets were in Chicago.
As a Knicks fan, if Thibs was introduced, there would be some questions Id like to see answered
What lessons have you learned from your last coaching gig? Do you believe in load mgmt for vets? Will anything be different from your last stop?
I dont see this move attracting elite players. They will see another coach on the Knicks coaching carousel.
Hopefully the next FO will ID some of the things that are working here and keep that and continue to grow that, and is it possible that includes Miller? Maybe, but its not as simple as "this guy has been good so he should stay." It just isnt and assuming it is and using that as fuel vs. the new FO doesnt make sense either.
As for Thibs? You cant say he doesnt have coaching chops and somehow the TWolves are used as a bad example but they won 47 games under Thibs and havent seen a win total like that since the KG/Spree/Cassel/Wally team and they have been worse without Thibs so there's that...
You just made a great case to never to promote an asst. coach. Miller has been acting like a "bridge". The players are responding, and putting in the effort. Miller just mentioned that he is in constant touch with Perry over who plays. Miller is doing his job, on and off the court.
The last thing the Knicks need to do is to fix something that isnt broken. Absent the team crashing and burning for the rest of the season, firing a coach who is doing his job is counterproductive. We're far enough away from the last coach to say that the improved play, (in spite of all the injuries) is a more than a bump from a change of coach.
2021 is a huge FA summer Giving Miller a season to make a case to stay on is the way to go. If it doesnt work out, then go for the splash hire in advance of free agency. Dont see the rush to replace Miller, not with our rep for keeping coaches on a short leash. Miller looks like a better coach for the job with his chops and experience at developing players.
Do the Knicks have winning record under Miller? Are the a playoff team under Miller? Has any young player broken out under Miller?Miller took a really garbage squad and make them slightly less garbage. That is not the same as doing a great job and cementing a permanent role. You missing some perspective here. Miller has done a nice job. He's coaching. Its not really anything that special.
Nobody is firing Mike Miller. We dont even had a FO right now. He's a interim coach and doing great in that capacity. Next FO gets to build their org how they see fit and Mike Miller has been ok. Try to have some perspective on Miller's "achievements"
Its been more than a slighty better winning pct., even after trading away our best player. This team looks like it can at least challenge elite teams. With this roster, thats no small thing. Thibs had more by the time he left Minny, and did less or the same. Not to mention his relationship with his stars. That kind of a move isnt today's NBA. Most teams would give Miller another season, considering his in the organization and making the team more competitive. Firing, replacing, Miller with a retread would be classic Knicks.
But as you feel "most teams" would do this any real world example would be more convincing.
I am not opposed to keeping Miller. He's been fine. This notion that he's been great and deserves a shot to be the perm HC and if he's not is just "more typical Knicks" is silly though and is fantasy based. I get why you want him to stay but you gotta open your eyes and be realistic on this one.
Most teams would put more stock in hoe Miller got to this point. As you know, Miller ran the G-league development tesm. Won a title. Did a great job there. Was asked to be an asst for Fizdale, even though Fizdale didnt want him or other G league coaches who came with him. Was reported that there was little if any communication between them.
Not long after being promoted to interim HC. He gets a team which was setting franchise records for losing, and gets them playing like a 7th seed, by his record since taking over.
Most teams would give weight to the fact that this isnt an asst who came with one of the many Knicks HCs Dolan is still paying. Miller worked his way up the ranks, and has aquitted himself on every level. Most teams consider that a good reason to give a coach like Miller a full season as coach, from camp on.
If there were sone hot shot coach that was on the Knicks radar, and the coach was interested, thats one thing. A coach who wasnt very good when he left his last stop, has trouble connecting with youngers players, is another.
You want me to quantify it? T+P=0
Time with a company working up the company ladder. Plus performance on the job, equals opportunity. Most teams would reward Miller's performance from the G league to the pros with more time. That is unless an elite coach is available. Dont consider Thibs to be one at this point.
This is not the US postal service.
Most teams don't promote their Gleague guys. We did!
In fact, he got the gig over Canles and Sullivan.
Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:We all know Miller's resume and like what he's done. "Most teams" is not evidence. What you are asking/hoping is not normal and should not be expected.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:really? How are you quantifying that statement? You are hiring your next coach because despite losing to them we now look like a team that can be challenging? Do you have any examples of new GMs or FO hires that came in and kept the interim guy vs. hiring his own? I cant think of one example despite you saying "most teams" would give Miller a chance. I totally disagree. Most teams would follow through the hiring and building of their staff as planned even if the guy who took over midseason coached a .200 team to a .400 team.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:The only thing I made a case for is folks to open their eyes to how the world works... today's topic is how to hire an NBA coach.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:coach is a big hire, and big job and the critical bridge between the FO and players. If you are coming into a situation with the level of historic dysfunction that the Knicks have had you are not hanging the coaching gig on a guy with a couple decent months under his belt, you just are not doing that. Its not a reasonable or realistic expectation under any circumstances.HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
Wanting Miller to stay isnt about sentiment. He's doing a good job with a lottery team. The players seem to respect and play hard for him. Is good with Xs and Os, big on details. Miller worked his way up the organization.
Not so sure Thibs has a great rep outside of Ex-Bulls who he famously ran into the ground, with multiple players ending up in the hospital. KAT might be a Diva, but he is part of the younger NBA generation that Thibs apparently had trouble connecting with. Thibs is an old school coach, not confident he can connect with players who arent willing to be ridden as hard as his vets were in Chicago.
As a Knicks fan, if Thibs was introduced, there would be some questions Id like to see answered
What lessons have you learned from your last coaching gig? Do you believe in load mgmt for vets? Will anything be different from your last stop?
I dont see this move attracting elite players. They will see another coach on the Knicks coaching carousel.
Hopefully the next FO will ID some of the things that are working here and keep that and continue to grow that, and is it possible that includes Miller? Maybe, but its not as simple as "this guy has been good so he should stay." It just isnt and assuming it is and using that as fuel vs. the new FO doesnt make sense either.
As for Thibs? You cant say he doesnt have coaching chops and somehow the TWolves are used as a bad example but they won 47 games under Thibs and havent seen a win total like that since the KG/Spree/Cassel/Wally team and they have been worse without Thibs so there's that...
You just made a great case to never to promote an asst. coach. Miller has been acting like a "bridge". The players are responding, and putting in the effort. Miller just mentioned that he is in constant touch with Perry over who plays. Miller is doing his job, on and off the court.
The last thing the Knicks need to do is to fix something that isnt broken. Absent the team crashing and burning for the rest of the season, firing a coach who is doing his job is counterproductive. We're far enough away from the last coach to say that the improved play, (in spite of all the injuries) is a more than a bump from a change of coach.
2021 is a huge FA summer Giving Miller a season to make a case to stay on is the way to go. If it doesnt work out, then go for the splash hire in advance of free agency. Dont see the rush to replace Miller, not with our rep for keeping coaches on a short leash. Miller looks like a better coach for the job with his chops and experience at developing players.
Do the Knicks have winning record under Miller? Are the a playoff team under Miller? Has any young player broken out under Miller?Miller took a really garbage squad and make them slightly less garbage. That is not the same as doing a great job and cementing a permanent role. You missing some perspective here. Miller has done a nice job. He's coaching. Its not really anything that special.
Nobody is firing Mike Miller. We dont even had a FO right now. He's a interim coach and doing great in that capacity. Next FO gets to build their org how they see fit and Mike Miller has been ok. Try to have some perspective on Miller's "achievements"
Its been more than a slighty better winning pct., even after trading away our best player. This team looks like it can at least challenge elite teams. With this roster, thats no small thing. Thibs had more by the time he left Minny, and did less or the same. Not to mention his relationship with his stars. That kind of a move isnt today's NBA. Most teams would give Miller another season, considering his in the organization and making the team more competitive. Firing, replacing, Miller with a retread would be classic Knicks.
But as you feel "most teams" would do this any real world example would be more convincing.
I am not opposed to keeping Miller. He's been fine. This notion that he's been great and deserves a shot to be the perm HC and if he's not is just "more typical Knicks" is silly though and is fantasy based. I get why you want him to stay but you gotta open your eyes and be realistic on this one.
Most teams would put more stock in hoe Miller got to this point. As you know, Miller ran the G-league development tesm. Won a title. Did a great job there. Was asked to be an asst for Fizdale, even though Fizdale didnt want him or other G league coaches who came with him. Was reported that there was little if any communication between them.
Not long after being promoted to interim HC. He gets a team which was setting franchise records for losing, and gets them playing like a 7th seed, by his record since taking over.
Most teams would give weight to the fact that this isnt an asst who came with one of the many Knicks HCs Dolan is still paying. Miller worked his way up the ranks, and has aquitted himself on every level. Most teams consider that a good reason to give a coach like Miller a full season as coach, from camp on.
If there were sone hot shot coach that was on the Knicks radar, and the coach was interested, thats one thing. A coach who wasnt very good when he left his last stop, has trouble connecting with youngers players, is another.
You want me to quantify it? T+P=0
Time with a company working up the company ladder. Plus performance on the job, equals opportunity. Most teams would reward Miller's performance from the G league to the pros with more time. That is unless an elite coach is available. Dont consider Thibs to be one at this point.
This is not the US postal service.
Most teams don't promote their Gleague guys. We did!
In fact, he got the gig over Canles and Sullivan.
Damn cell phone signal every time I try to post. My last try for a while.
Giving Thibs the job, when he was hot garbage as a coach, by yhe time he left Minny. A team he built. Over Miller who got them from the bottom of the league, to a team which might have made the playoffs with Morris. Seems very "Post Office" to me.