Knicks · What are your thoughts on Obi Toppin at 8? (page 3)

TheGame wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TheGame wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Defitinitely agree- great on offense, but that defense:

One of the podcasts said he looked like a grandpa with bad hips on defense- harsh but true!

LMAO. His defense is so bad he must have been trying to be funny. Please just say no. The last thing we need is a bad defender. We need to build this team on a defensive foundation. This kid looks like Amare on defense.

He also has drawn comparisons to Amare on offense, which is why he'll go in the upper half of the lottery. Everybody offers who they don't want, who would you take at 8 assuming Edwards, Ball, Wiseman, Deni and Hayes are off the board?

Look if Toppin is there then the Knicks probably draft him because the kid looks like a 20 pt scorer. But I personally would draft Vassell or Nesmith and let some other team try to spend the next 10 years covering for Toppins defensive short-comings.

Not too many guys getting you 20 ppg over a career. Nesmith isn't exactly considered a strong defender either. Bottom line is all of these guys are flawed. I guess it's a matter of which flaw you want to live with.

Welpee wrote:

TheGame wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TheGame wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Defitinitely agree- great on offense, but that defense:

One of the podcasts said he looked like a grandpa with bad hips on defense- harsh but true!

LMAO. His defense is so bad he must have been trying to be funny. Please just say no. The last thing we need is a bad defender. We need to build this team on a defensive foundation. This kid looks like Amare on defense.

He also has drawn comparisons to Amare on offense, which is why he'll go in the upper half of the lottery. Everybody offers who they don't want, who would you take at 8 assuming Edwards, Ball, Wiseman, Deni and Hayes are off the board?

Look if Toppin is there then the Knicks probably draft him because the kid looks like a 20 pt scorer. But I personally would draft Vassell or Nesmith and let some other team try to spend the next 10 years covering for Toppins defensive short-comings.

Not too many guys getting you 20 ppg over a career. Nesmith isn't exactly considered a strong defender either. Bottom line is all of these guys are flawed. I guess it's a matter of which flaw you want to live with.

This guy makes Nesmith look like Bruce Bowen on D. I question Nesmith's ability to be considered a stopper, but I still think he can be adequate. Toppin's defense is scary. If he falls to us at 8, you'd really have to consider why teams let a guy with so much offensive talent drop. Scouts do get it wrong, no doubt. But they're also spot on with many of their reports. I agree I'd probably lean toward drafting Obi, but it's something to think about. The Knicks drafted a guy name John Wallace out of Syracuse. He was more complete offensively than Obi. He was ultimately unplayable because of his defense and he bounced around. There was another guy named Lee Nailon we signed and he was an instant bucket. Maybe more talented than Obi. He bounced around because his defense was atrocious. Obi might be worse on defense than those guys.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TheGame wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TheGame wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Defitinitely agree- great on offense, but that defense:

One of the podcasts said he looked like a grandpa with bad hips on defense- harsh but true!

LMAO. His defense is so bad he must have been trying to be funny. Please just say no. The last thing we need is a bad defender. We need to build this team on a defensive foundation. This kid looks like Amare on defense.

He also has drawn comparisons to Amare on offense, which is why he'll go in the upper half of the lottery. Everybody offers who they don't want, who would you take at 8 assuming Edwards, Ball, Wiseman, Deni and Hayes are off the board?

Look if Toppin is there then the Knicks probably draft him because the kid looks like a 20 pt scorer. But I personally would draft Vassell or Nesmith and let some other team try to spend the next 10 years covering for Toppins defensive short-comings.

Not too many guys getting you 20 ppg over a career. Nesmith isn't exactly considered a strong defender either. Bottom line is all of these guys are flawed. I guess it's a matter of which flaw you want to live with.

This guy makes Nesmith look like Bruce Bowen on D. I question Nesmith's ability to be considered a stopper, but I still think he can be adequate. Toppin's defense is scary. If he falls to us at 8, you'd really have to consider why teams let a guy with so much offensive talent drop. Scouts do get it wrong, no doubt. But they're also spot on with many of their reports. I agree I'd probably lean toward drafting Obi, but it's something to think about. The Knicks drafted a guy name John Wallace out of Syracuse. He was more complete offensively than Obi. He was ultimately unplayable because of his defense and he bounced around. There was another guy named Lee Nailon we signed and he was an instant bucket. Maybe more talented than Obi. He bounced around because his defense was atrocious. Obi might be worse on defense than those guys.

No doubt. But then there are examples in the opposite direction like doubts about Kemba Walker and Steph Curry's ability to defend at the NBA level. Then you have guys like Chris Singleton and Nerlen Noel and Willie Cauley-Stein, supposed NBA ready defenders who had little impact in the league. Basically, who knows?

BigDaddyG wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TheGame wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TheGame wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Defitinitely agree- great on offense, but that defense:

One of the podcasts said he looked like a grandpa with bad hips on defense- harsh but true!

LMAO. His defense is so bad he must have been trying to be funny. Please just say no. The last thing we need is a bad defender. We need to build this team on a defensive foundation. This kid looks like Amare on defense.

He also has drawn comparisons to Amare on offense, which is why he'll go in the upper half of the lottery. Everybody offers who they don't want, who would you take at 8 assuming Edwards, Ball, Wiseman, Deni and Hayes are off the board?

Look if Toppin is there then the Knicks probably draft him because the kid looks like a 20 pt scorer. But I personally would draft Vassell or Nesmith and let some other team try to spend the next 10 years covering for Toppins defensive short-comings.

Not too many guys getting you 20 ppg over a career. Nesmith isn't exactly considered a strong defender either. Bottom line is all of these guys are flawed. I guess it's a matter of which flaw you want to live with.

This guy makes Nesmith look like Bruce Bowen on D. I question Nesmith's ability to be considered a stopper, but I still think he can be adequate. Toppin's defense is scary. If he falls to us at 8, you'd really have to consider why teams let a guy with so much offensive talent drop. Scouts do get it wrong, no doubt. But they're also spot on with many of their reports. I agree I'd probably lean toward drafting Obi, but it's something to think about. The Knicks drafted a guy name John Wallace out of Syracuse. He was more complete offensively than Obi. He was ultimately unplayable because of his defense and he bounced around. There was another guy named Lee Nailon we signed and he was an instant bucket. Maybe more talented than Obi. He bounced around because his defense was atrocious. Obi might be worse on defense than those guys.

Nice to see u call some old school names J WalLace!
Nba is different now. What would Tobbin do as Houston or Gs center?

BRIGGS wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TheGame wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TheGame wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Defitinitely agree- great on offense, but that defense:

One of the podcasts said he looked like a grandpa with bad hips on defense- harsh but true!

LMAO. His defense is so bad he must have been trying to be funny. Please just say no. The last thing we need is a bad defender. We need to build this team on a defensive foundation. This kid looks like Amare on defense.

He also has drawn comparisons to Amare on offense, which is why he'll go in the upper half of the lottery. Everybody offers who they don't want, who would you take at 8 assuming Edwards, Ball, Wiseman, Deni and Hayes are off the board?

Look if Toppin is there then the Knicks probably draft him because the kid looks like a 20 pt scorer. But I personally would draft Vassell or Nesmith and let some other team try to spend the next 10 years covering for Toppins defensive short-comings.

Not too many guys getting you 20 ppg over a career. Nesmith isn't exactly considered a strong defender either. Bottom line is all of these guys are flawed. I guess it's a matter of which flaw you want to live with.

This guy makes Nesmith look like Bruce Bowen on D. I question Nesmith's ability to be considered a stopper, but I still think he can be adequate. Toppin's defense is scary. If he falls to us at 8, you'd really have to consider why teams let a guy with so much offensive talent drop. Scouts do get it wrong, no doubt. But they're also spot on with many of their reports. I agree I'd probably lean toward drafting Obi, but it's something to think about. The Knicks drafted a guy name John Wallace out of Syracuse. He was more complete offensively than Obi. He was ultimately unplayable because of his defense and he bounced around. There was another guy named Lee Nailon we signed and he was an instant bucket. Maybe more talented than Obi. He bounced around because his defense was atrocious. Obi might be worse on defense than those guys.

Nice to see u call some old school names J WalLace!
Nba is different now. What would Tobbin do as Houston or Gs center?

I think Obi would fit well with Houston as long as is still coach hahahah bad fit with GSW who would need his defense more than any offense he provided.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TheGame wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TheGame wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Defitinitely agree- great on offense, but that defense:

One of the podcasts said he looked like a grandpa with bad hips on defense- harsh but true!

LMAO. His defense is so bad he must have been trying to be funny. Please just say no. The last thing we need is a bad defender. We need to build this team on a defensive foundation. This kid looks like Amare on defense.

He also has drawn comparisons to Amare on offense, which is why he'll go in the upper half of the lottery. Everybody offers who they don't want, who would you take at 8 assuming Edwards, Ball, Wiseman, Deni and Hayes are off the board?

Look if Toppin is there then the Knicks probably draft him because the kid looks like a 20 pt scorer. But I personally would draft Vassell or Nesmith and let some other team try to spend the next 10 years covering for Toppins defensive short-comings.

Not too many guys getting you 20 ppg over a career. Nesmith isn't exactly considered a strong defender either. Bottom line is all of these guys are flawed. I guess it's a matter of which flaw you want to live with.

This guy makes Nesmith look like Bruce Bowen on D. I question Nesmith's ability to be considered a stopper, but I still think he can be adequate. Toppin's defense is scary. If he falls to us at 8, you'd really have to consider why teams let a guy with so much offensive talent drop. Scouts do get it wrong, no doubt. But they're also spot on with many of their reports. I agree I'd probably lean toward drafting Obi, but it's something to think about. The Knicks drafted a guy name John Wallace out of Syracuse. He was more complete offensively than Obi. He was ultimately unplayable because of his defense and he bounced around. There was another guy named Lee Nailon we signed and he was an instant bucket. Maybe more talented than Obi. He bounced around because his defense was atrocious. Obi might be worse on defense than those guys.

I agree-- it wasn't even that long ago we had someone (was it latter day melo? ) and every time the opposing team would target him when they were on offense, they'd get the switch and go at him and that was the game plan. I don't see how you can play toppin with defense like that, it more than cancels out his offense.

On a podcast someone said Towns is a phenomenal offensive player, yet his defense is so bad it stops him having a winning impact on the game. Toppin is worse on defense and offense so what hope does he have?

oh my god thats bad. No joke thats the worst defensive compilation video I've ever seen. So slow laterally. Horrid instincts. No way thats fixable.

Jmpasq wrote:oh my god thats bad. No joke thats the worst defensive compilation video I've ever seen. So slow laterally. Horrid instincts. No way thats fixable.

It’s an offensive league. If he was so bad defensively Dayton wouldn’t have had such a high margin differential on a 26-1 team. He was the best player on the best team.

i haven't watched a single video but all of the comments are causing Amare flashbacks.

and i meant that to be more intriguing than critical -- i.e., is his net positive because his offense is that good

no way you pass on hit at 8. He wont be there...

BRIGGS wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:oh my god thats bad. No joke thats the worst defensive compilation video I've ever seen. So slow laterally. Horrid instincts. No way thats fixable.

It’s an offensive league. If he was so bad defensively Dayton wouldn’t have had such a high margin differential on a 26-1 team. He was the best player on the best team.

The difference is that guys who are going on to have future careers as bankers, teachers, firemen etc. are doing this to him. And he was already significantly older than them. Can you imagine what would happen against NBA players? He doesn't even make up for it by boxing out grabbing rebounds. After giving this some thought, I think I would definitely take Oneyka over him or Nesmith over him. I'd take Vassel and Okoro too, but they're likely gone if Obi has dropped down to us. And he has a one to one assist to turnover ratio. Also, he only averaged one steal and one block a game at that level. Where do you play him?

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:oh my god thats bad. No joke thats the worst defensive compilation video I've ever seen. So slow laterally. Horrid instincts. No way thats fixable.

It’s an offensive league. If he was so bad defensively Dayton wouldn’t have had such a high margin differential on a 26-1 team. He was the best player on the best team.

The difference is that guys who are going on to have future careers as bankers, teachers, firemen etc. are doing this to him. And he was already significantly older than them. Can you imagine what would happen against NBA players? He doesn't even make up for it by boxing out grabbing rebounds. After giving this some thought, I think I would definitely take Oneyka over him or Nesmith over him. I'd take Vassel and Okoro too, but they're likely gone if Obi has dropped down to us.

I have zero interest as we have M Rob. Wiseman is another story as I think he’s the best player in the draft

BRIGGS wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:oh my god thats bad. No joke thats the worst defensive compilation video I've ever seen. So slow laterally. Horrid instincts. No way thats fixable.

It’s an offensive league. If he was so bad defensively Dayton wouldn’t have had such a high margin differential on a 26-1 team. He was the best player on the best team.

The difference is that guys who are going on to have future careers as bankers, teachers, firemen etc. are doing this to him. And he was already significantly older than them. Can you imagine what would happen against NBA players? He doesn't even make up for it by boxing out grabbing rebounds. After giving this some thought, I think I would definitely take Oneyka over him or Nesmith over him. I'd take Vassel and Okoro too, but they're likely gone if Obi has dropped down to us.

I have zero interest as we have M Rob. Wiseman is another story as I think he’s the best player in the draft

Yeah, but Wiseman isn't dropping to us. I'm looking at this objectively. I can see few paths to success for Oneyka to be at least decent at the NBA level. Right now, I can only see one path to success for Obi, and that's the Chinese league. Just joking, but he needs more development than I thought and he's already 23.

Jmpasq wrote:oh my god thats bad. No joke thats the worst defensive compilation video I've ever seen. So slow laterally. Horrid instincts. No way thats fixable.

It is horrific! I thought he looked great and didn't understand why he was ranked so low until I saw that video- he honestly plays defense like I would if I was suddenly dumped in a college or nba game

His defense is so bad, you may as well have him go buy a hotdog every time the opposing team has possession

smackeddog wrote:His defense is so bad, you may as well have him go buy a hotdog every time the opposing team has possession

It's like he was practicing social distancing before it was recommended by the CDC.

BigDaddyG wrote:

smackeddog wrote:His defense is so bad, you may as well have him go buy a hotdog every time the opposing team has possession

It's like he was practicing social distancing before it was recommended by the CDC.

ha ha!

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:I'm pretty much ignorant on these prospects but I'd like someone who plays both ends of the floor.

He was an All-American selection, received the Karl Malone Award (top power forward), and the Naismith College Basketball Player Of The Year. He’s a high motor player and maybe he has extra to give to Knox

Have only seen the highlights but his offense look very good; explosive and a stretch 4 for sure. Strength down low is not so good and he probably makes Amare look good on defense.

He may be one of those picks like Frye that explode out of the gate and generate some ESPN highlights, and he would certainly surpass Frye in every way in that regard. Pump up his value and immediately send elsewhere when you can.

Can't see him on a deep playoff team unless you got defenders around him

I personally think Toppin can ball. He is a high motor player. He is not going to shoulder the offensive load either. So I think he will improve. It’s not like asking Eddy Curry to figure it out defensively. He is raw and late blooming. I know you you’re not a huge fan of PER but he’s 32.5. He’s at 6.5 WS and 2.3 were defensively. He is not a fluid defender but I don’t think he’s garbage either

BigDaddyG wrote:

smackeddog wrote:His defense is so bad, you may as well have him go buy a hotdog every time the opposing team has possession

It's like he was practicing social distancing before it was recommended by the CDC.

LMAO

smackeddog wrote:Defitinitely agree- great on offense, but that defense:

One of the podcasts said he looked like a grandpa with bad hips on defense- harsh but true!

most of his defensive lapses came because of (1) poor posture/stance and (2) coming up too aggressively. Will he ever be DOPY? I would say no. Does this salvageable to me? yes

SupremeCommander wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Defitinitely agree- great on offense, but that defense:

One of the podcasts said he looked like a grandpa with bad hips on defense- harsh but true!

most of his defensive lapses came because of (1) poor posture/stance and (2) coming up too aggressively. Will he ever be DOPY? I would say no. Does this salvageable to me? yes

How does one fix slow feet and slow lateral movement? Asking for Kanter and Amare