Knicks · The Miami Heat Model of Team Building for the Knicks (page 1)

Whether they win or lose this round against the Bucks, the Heat have found a way to properly build around their 2 best players Butler and Adebayo and become a dangerous playoff team. Given the similarity in skill-sets, the Knicks should be borrowing this model to build around Barrett and Robinson;

C Adebayo
PF Crowder (3&D combo forward)
SF Butler
SG D Robinson/Herro (pair of 3pt snipers)
PG Dragic/Nunn (PGs who can shoot and play on or off the ball)

They have loaded up at shooting at every other position and have guards who can play equally well on or off the bench. If we were to follow a similar model

PG: VanVleet obviously stands out. He can really shoot it and play on or off the ball. Frank can be an option if his shooting comes around. There's some later draft options in Winston and Riller that sort of have that Nunn-type potential

Wing: Needs to shoot. Harris in free agency is the obvious, but this role can be filled in the draft. Vassell and Nesmith stand out in the lottery. Bane is the best option likely available at 27. Hield is a trade option if we went that route.

PF: Jerami Grant really stands out as an option following this model. He can shoot and defend. Tyler Bey is a good option later in the draft as a guy who has the potential to eventually develop into that role. Same with Robert Woodard.

C Robinson
PF Randle/Woodard
SF Barrett/Knox
SG Vassell/Bullock
PG VanVleet/Ntilikina

This would at least be a start. If we can somehow move Randle a year early without giving up assets or taking on a longer contract than maybe bring in Grant on a 1+1 deal, otherwise hope we can draft a Woodard or Bey to develop as a 3&D forward behind him for a year. Not a perfect plan, but it's a start. I want to sign 1 long-term piece, VanVleet being the top choice for me. Grant is a great option, but may require a long-term deal. I don't see any other stretch 4s out there who can be had one a 1-year deal and fit well, but i could be wrong.

martin wrote:

Yeah no doubt Bam is one of a kind. Sort of one of those centers that doesn't really fit today's game but is an exception to the rule. I'm hoping Mitch can develop similarly from a defensive standpoint. Offensive, probably not.

The "Miami Model" has nothing to do with the players they have. I think they've demonstrated over the years that they can pull players from the scrapheap and give them the tools to succeed. What they do takes place behind the scenes and involves people that may not have even played college ball, let alone seen a NBA court. Unless we make a goodfaith effort to invest in our scouting department, medical staff, strength & conditioning team, our G-League, we'll never come close to touching what the Heat...or the Jazz...or the Raptors do on a year-in, year-out basis with no-name players. Seriously, the fucking Raptors are elite without having a single lottery pick their rotation!

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Yeah no doubt Bam is one of a kind. Sort of one of those centers that doesn't really fit today's game but is an exception to the rule. I'm hoping Mitch can develop similarly from a defensive standpoint. Offensive, probably not.

Bam is the epitome of the type of center you want in today's game. Why do you think otherwise?

NardDogNation wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Yeah no doubt Bam is one of a kind. Sort of one of those centers that doesn't really fit today's game but is an exception to the rule. I'm hoping Mitch can develop similarly from a defensive standpoint. Offensive, probably not.

Bam is the epitome of the type of center you want in today's game. Why do you think otherwise?

He’s not a shooter nor a shot blocker. He’s a playmaking big man that can run an offense out of the post. On paper he’s not what you really want for today’s game from the center position, he’s just so good at what he does that it doesn’t matter. Similar to Jokic in that regard.

Pat Riley just celebrated 25 years since he departed the knicks. Same owner, same GM/president and just three coaches. Riles had his share of heartbreak (mostly to JVG) and Some stinker teams, free agents, draft picks and trades but great success to balance it out!
Starts with the ownership. Steady Arinson and worked with Riley now for a quarter century. Maybe for Riley it was about the money and he did negotiate an ownership stake but more that’s that he built something.
I’m worried the Freak will bolt to Miami.

If we followed the "Miami Model" Miller would still be coach, ha ha. Spoelstra worked his way up the org. Stability in the front office, an owner who stays out, has played the biggest part.

GustavBahler wrote:If we followed the "Miami Model" Miller would still be coach, ha ha. Spoelstra worked his way up the org. Stability in the front office, an owner who stays out, has played the biggest part.

Yeah makes sense. But our coaching staff shouldn't hold us back. Thibs, Bryant, Woodson, and Payne is a great group of coaches going forward. I haven't ever felt this confident in a coaching staff. We just need players.

Also would be nice for NY to emulate Miami's zero income tax rate and summer all year round appeal, to help bring FAs of LeBron's caliber.

Knixkik wrote:Whether they win or lose this round against the Bucks, the Heat have found a way to properly build around their 2 best players Butler and Adebayo and become a dangerous playoff team. Given the similarity in skill-sets, the Knicks should be borrowing this model to build around Barrett and Robinson;

C Adebayo
PF Crowder (3&D combo forward)
SF Butler
SG D Robinson/Herro (pair of 3pt snipers)
PG Dragic/Nunn (PGs who can shoot and play on or off the ball)

They have loaded up at shooting at every other position and have guards who can play equally well on or off the bench. If we were to follow a similar model

PG: VanVleet obviously stands out. He can really shoot it and play on or off the ball. Frank can be an option if his shooting comes around. There's some later draft options in Winston and Riller that sort of have that Nunn-type potential

Wing: Needs to shoot. Harris in free agency is the obvious, but this role can be filled in the draft. Vassell and Nesmith stand out in the lottery. Bane is the best option likely available at 27. Hield is a trade option if we went that route.

PF: Jerami Grant really stands out as an option following this model. He can shoot and defend. Tyler Bey is a good option later in the draft as a guy who has the potential to eventually develop into that role. Same with Robert Woodard.

C Robinson
PF Randle/Woodard
SF Barrett/Knox
SG Vassell/Bullock
PG VanVleet/Ntilikina

This would at least be a start. If we can somehow move Randle a year early without giving up assets or taking on a longer contract than maybe bring in Grant on a 1+1 deal, otherwise hope we can draft a Woodard or Bey to develop as a 3&D forward behind him for a year. Not a perfect plan, but it's a start. I want to sign 1 long-term piece, VanVleet being the top choice for me. Grant is a great option, but may require a long-term deal. I don't see any other stretch 4s out there who can be had one a 1-year deal and fit well, but i could be wrong.

Well, had PJ been able to trade K[ra]P when he wanted to Crowder would likely have been a Knick as well as one or two of Boston's kids.

fwk00 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Whether they win or lose this round against the Bucks, the Heat have found a way to properly build around their 2 best players Butler and Adebayo and become a dangerous playoff team. Given the similarity in skill-sets, the Knicks should be borrowing this model to build around Barrett and Robinson;

C Adebayo
PF Crowder (3&D combo forward)
SF Butler
SG D Robinson/Herro (pair of 3pt snipers)
PG Dragic/Nunn (PGs who can shoot and play on or off the ball)

They have loaded up at shooting at every other position and have guards who can play equally well on or off the bench. If we were to follow a similar model

PG: VanVleet obviously stands out. He can really shoot it and play on or off the ball. Frank can be an option if his shooting comes around. There's some later draft options in Winston and Riller that sort of have that Nunn-type potential

Wing: Needs to shoot. Harris in free agency is the obvious, but this role can be filled in the draft. Vassell and Nesmith stand out in the lottery. Bane is the best option likely available at 27. Hield is a trade option if we went that route.

PF: Jerami Grant really stands out as an option following this model. He can shoot and defend. Tyler Bey is a good option later in the draft as a guy who has the potential to eventually develop into that role. Same with Robert Woodard.

C Robinson
PF Randle/Woodard
SF Barrett/Knox
SG Vassell/Bullock
PG VanVleet/Ntilikina

This would at least be a start. If we can somehow move Randle a year early without giving up assets or taking on a longer contract than maybe bring in Grant on a 1+1 deal, otherwise hope we can draft a Woodard or Bey to develop as a 3&D forward behind him for a year. Not a perfect plan, but it's a start. I want to sign 1 long-term piece, VanVleet being the top choice for me. Grant is a great option, but may require a long-term deal. I don't see any other stretch 4s out there who can be had one a 1-year deal and fit well, but i could be wrong.

Well, had PJ been able to trade K[ra]P when he wanted to Crowder would likely have been a Knick as well as one or two of Boston's kids.

I remember crowder was offered in his first Dallas deal he made, but he took a 2nd round pick instead. Also, if it’s true that we were offered Booker and a pick swap (4 for 8) in 2017 than obviously we messed up. We all were against it though, but in hindsight man we messed up.

ESOMKnicks wrote:Also would be nice for NY to emulate Miami's zero income tax rate and summer all year round appeal, to help bring FAs of LeBron's caliber.

If NY state did that they would be asking other states to make up the difference in their state budgets.

GustavBahler wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:Also would be nice for NY to emulate Miami's zero income tax rate and summer all year round appeal, to help bring FAs of LeBron's caliber.

If NY state did that they would be asking other states to make up the difference in their state budgets.

Yeah, but that hasn't stopped the LA teams and didn't stop Brooklyn. The major thing is that we have to stop sucking.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:Also would be nice for NY to emulate Miami's zero income tax rate and summer all year round appeal, to help bring FAs of LeBron's caliber.

If NY state did that they would be asking other states to make up the difference in their state budgets.

Yeah, but that hasn't stopped the LA teams and didn't stop Brooklyn. The major thing is that we have to stop sucking.

Exactly. Big free agents don’t care about state tax. They just want to be in a good situation. The knicks will get guys if they become a good functioning franchise.

KNICKS = Trash

End of statement. Frank over Mitchell, Knox over SGA. Building for the future over. The Heat have Pat Riley whose been with the team 24 years guiding the organization. He put the right coach in place and rebuilt the team 5 times into powerhouses.

If we don’t hit on our picks the next two years we have no shot of ever being good.

The Nets handed us our lunch and once Miami eliminates the Bucks, Giannis is going to Miami. We have zero chance of getting free agents and are headed towards the lottery again and we have one rotation player to show for it the last 6 years. Embarrassing.

Knicks bashing aside, you have to tip your hat to this Heat team. Not a "super friends" thing at all. Now two up on the darling Bucks. Smart organization, well coached, players play hard, and oh yeah play defense -- what a concept.

MS wrote:KNICKS = Trash

End of statement. Frank over Mitchell, Knox over SGA. Building for the future over. The Heat have Pat Riley whose been with the team 24 years guiding the organization. He put the right coach in place and rebuilt the team 5 times into powerhouses.

If we don’t hit on our picks the next two years we have no shot of ever being good.

The Nets handed us our lunch and once Miami eliminates the Bucks, Giannis is going to Miami. We have zero chance of getting free agents and are headed towards the lottery again and we have one rotation player to show for it the last 6 years. Embarrassing.

Building thru the draft is so hard. People want it like it’s the automatic answer. You can’t just magically turn into an organization that will do the right things. This board wasn’t begging for SGA or Mitchell around each draft so it’s not like it was obvious. But what kills us most is no system or plan. The knicks have 2 players worth a damn as far as rebuilding goes so for better or for worst it’s time to build a team that actually makes sense. Go out and get Kennard (CAA client) for a future pick. People hate giving picks but as long as it’s protected and you’re getting a player who fits. It’s not the cure-all but at least you’re giving your young players complimentary pieces and not just spinning the tires. Not saying it’s the right move, but Miami is always making these types of moves and then finding undrafted guys to make up for the picks. They always seem to have a plan. Every move is with purpose and fits like a piece to the puzzle.

Riley is hyper competitive and I admire that. He’s also a rat

And I have no doubt in my mind that they push their players to hgh

Yes they find talent and then they juice

I thought last month it was POrtland was the Model? Or the Bucks?

If Miami was the model Pat would still be here. Rats win.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:Also would be nice for NY to emulate Miami's zero income tax rate and summer all year round appeal, to help bring FAs of LeBron's caliber.

If NY state did that they would be asking other states to make up the difference in their state budgets.

Yeah, but that hasn't stopped the LA teams and didn't stop Brooklyn. The major thing is that we have to stop sucking.

LA has the sun, the palm trees and hot chicks who came over to conquer Hollywood. Brooklyn had never won a championship last time I checked. And them landing KD and Kyrie was a fluke. KD was injured, which may have scared off a lot of teams, and Kyrie is a mercurial flat earther. Who knows what goes in his head and how he makes life decisions? We get talent thanks to sentimental reasons (big population cluster, so lots of players grew up around here), but lose out big in terms of quality of life to teams from down in the Sun Belt.

I understand that we are a dysfunctional organization, but from an FA perspective, what could they find uncomfortable? Only that we have not fielded a competitive team in decades. What else? That the training facility is all the way up in Purchase? The rest of our management's misdeeds are more of a pain to fans than to the players.