Knicks · I'm not a long term buyer of RJ's high level potential/talent (page 15)

Nalod wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I still like RJ - he has a lot of winning traits. I still ultimately see him as our 'Andre Iguodala'. A two-way player who won't put the monster stats but he will make the team better overall and make the winning plays and check the opposing teams best perimeter player.

I understand we would have liked more from a 3rd overall pick but it is what it is. We got the 3rd guy in a 2 player draft. Thankfully RJ is not a bust.

He's also not untradeable but I'm not giving him away unless we get a PG in return who is under 28.

I like that

Iggy is looking like one of the better comps for RJ I have seen in a long time. Hopefully he ends up being a better shooter than Iggy, although Iggy is def the better finisher... that dude always got to the rim and was a great finisher and also had an excellent drive an dish game.

I agree about the "winning traits"

A game after Thibs suggesting maybe RJ do some more shooting the kid lights it up and acts like he's been there before. I loved it.

21 year old Iggy vs peak Iggy?

Haters: “It got to RJ’s he got to get back in gym!”

Full Thibs quote: “He been sick, he needs to get in the gym and work it thru”.

Young and peak Iggy were an A+ athletes. GSW Iggy was still arguably at the same tier in terms of explosiveness as RJ now. Plus he has been a better passer and defender than RJ for the majority of his career. I don't really see the comparison. I can see the RJ reaching, maybe even surpassing Iggy's overall impact one day tho.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I still like RJ - he has a lot of winning traits. I still ultimately see him as our 'Andre Iguodala'. A two-way player who won't put the monster stats but he will make the team better overall and make the winning plays and check the opposing teams best perimeter player.

I understand we would have liked more from a 3rd overall pick but it is what it is. We got the 3rd guy in a 2 player draft. Thankfully RJ is not a bust.

He's also not untradeable but I'm not giving him away unless we get a PG in return who is under 28.

I like that

Iggy is looking like one of the better comps for RJ I have seen in a long time. Hopefully he ends up being a better shooter than Iggy, although Iggy is def the better finisher... that dude always got to the rim and was a great finisher and also had an excellent drive an dish game.

I agree about the "winning traits"

A game after Thibs suggesting maybe RJ do some more shooting the kid lights it up and acts like he's been there before. I loved it.

21 year old Iggy vs peak Iggy?

Haters: “It got to RJ’s he got to get back in gym!”

Full Thibs quote: “He been sick, he needs to get in the gym and work it thru”.

Young and peak Iggy were an A+ athletes. GSW Iggy was still arguably at the same tier in terms of explosiveness as RJ now. Plus he has been a better passer and defender than RJ for the majority of his career. I don't really see the comparison. I can see the RJ reaching, maybe even surpassing Iggy's overall impact one day tho.

RJ's not locking down anyone. Maybe he's been sick for awhile, but he's bottom barrel of the league defensively. Iggy always reminded me of a smidge down from peak Sprewell. Could make the big play on both ends of the floor at any time, with explosiveness and endless motor. RJ is more of a level down from H20 with more muscle and better moves to the rim.

Counter point & interesting article:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TheStrickland/status/1578346902092845056?s=20&t=vsYMl4ETWwWhaMOdcttMcw

Click here to view the Tweet

RJ Barrett: Three days in January
Written By Max Hoover

Small sample sizes are the bane of an NBA evaluator’s existence… but could a three-day stretch in January of last season have shown the blueprint for an RJ Barrett star turn?

Chapter One: The confession

I generally hate to make any basketball writing about myself, but I have a confession to make right off the bat: I have a hard time believing in RJ Barrett. I am simultaneously baffled and inspired by folks who take to social media daily and publicly proclaim that Barrett will be a multi-time All-Star and a fringe All-NBA-level talent. I just don’t see it.

And, truthfully, that bums me out. My favorite team has a 22-year-old switchable wing with a blue-chip pedigree (fresh off averaging 20 points per game, mind you), and I wouldn’t lose a wink of sleep if the Knicks included him in a trade for a star player. Those Barrett true believers are pesky positive people, though. Jehovah’s Witnesses with Bill Clinton charm, and their persistent proselytizing is finally wearing me down.

A Barrett aficionado sent me a meme a few weeks ago — a virtual leaflet creased and shoved in between my door jambs — that showed Barrett’s progression of 30-point games in his career. He’s grown from zero to one to 11 such outings in each of his three years in the NBA.

These Doubting Thomas-type ponderings bounce right off people with true faith: How many shots did he take in those games? Did the Knicks win? Who was guarding him? Did he attempt to make an unusually high number of free throws or threes? How many did Luka or Tatum have in their third season?

There were indeed games that supported my fears. For example, on March 22 against the Atlanta Hawks, Barrett scored 30 points on 9-25 and 11-17 from the line in a loss. Or the month prior, he dropped 46 points with 14 free throws in a 15-point home loss to the Miami Heat.

Something else caught my eye as well, though: a stretch of three consecutive games that put all my questions to rest. He shot it well in all three. Barrett and Julius Randle co-existed. (Randle played in all three and also played well in two of them.) Most importantly, the Knicks convincingly won all three.

If I were to root out and eradicate my Barrett skepticism, the initial ember would be buried somewhere in those three games. Those three days in January would become the sacred tome that made a monk out of me.

love RJ. I really feel like we have some pieces that can grow together. He brings a lot to the table.

knicks fans aren't used to young AND ascending players. RJ will be better at something this year (my hope is eFG%)

Chandler wrote:knicks fans aren't used to young AND ascending players. RJ will be better at something this year (my hope is eFG%)

they arent... this notion of incremental improvement and development is totally alien.

fishmike wrote:love RJ. I really feel like we have some pieces that can grow together. He brings a lot to the table.

Really hoping he proves most wrong and develops into a star. A lot of people talk about his limited natural ability but no reason with his work ethic he can’t become a better 3pt shooting version of Jimmy butler. That player is a top 10 player in the league. For his amount of time in the league, he still has a very wide range of outcomes though.

Young Iggy was better overall than RJ will likely ever be but RJ can still be a solid player for us and he can be a better scorer. I think RJ’s scoring goes up to 22 pts a game this year. His 3 pt shot looks solid so far in preseason. If he can shoot it at 38% clip or higher and make more free throws, he will easily be a 22 pt scorer.

Man, I jumped out of my seat when he (nearl) dunked on the Pacers in the first quarter. I thought he finished that and went nuts. But he’s getting stronger still. He’s going to be finishing more and more of those. I love the aggressive style.

Have been an RJ supporter and always side with him when it's RJ vs Randle running our offense. That said he has been inefficient and I have doubts about his ability to reach his ceiling while operating in a Randle dominated offense. I think RJ can be a solid 2nd option - but you can't have two inefficient ball-dominating players and expect great results. Good news is that Brunson seems to have helped minimize Randle's ball domination so far. Question for me remaining is can Randle be the 3rd ball dominator/option or will he get moved this season. For me that's the only way I see RJ taking that next step forward. Otherwise we will continue to debate his future on an ongoing basis.

RJ Barrett's low IQ has been a star performer vs Lottery teams the past 3 seasons .. In Barrett's 4th season we will see if Barrett has stepped-up his performance vs .500 teams to a winning performance on both sides of the court !!!

Kemet wrote:RJ Barrett's low IQ has been a star performer vs Lottery teams the past 3 seasons .. In Barrett's 4th season we will see if Barrett has stepped-up his performance vs .500 teams to a winning performance on both sides of the court !!!

Are we talking about the guy that hit the game winner vs Boston and guarded Derozan into an air ball at the buzzer? These generalities of yours lack depth but are rife with negativity. You are the first person to criticize Barrett’s basketball iq. He has always been regarded as a plus wing defender. Last season was his first with a strong presence in the offense and he looks like he is making strides at the age of 22. So, yeah, it’s easier to play well against bad teams but the guy also demands the other team’s best wing defender. I don’t think the criticisms are valid. There are other criticisms that are valid, but these are contrived and factually inaccurate.

jskinny35 wrote:Have been an RJ supporter and always side with him when it's RJ vs Randle running our offense. That said he has been inefficient and I have doubts about his ability to reach his ceiling while operating in a Randle dominated offense. I think RJ can be a solid 2nd option - but you can't have two inefficient ball-dominating players and expect great results. Good news is that Brunson seems to have helped minimize Randle's ball domination so far. Question for me remaining is can Randle be the 3rd ball dominator/option or will he get moved this season. For me that's the only way I see RJ taking that next step forward. Otherwise we will continue to debate his future on an ongoing basis.

Basically, we are both in favor of trading Randle (his replacement is on the team), but for different reasons. Which means thats two reasons how a Randle trade would help this team, and help two knicks the most (RJ and Obi).

Hyperthethicaly thinking, if Randle was traded, what are the benefits to the team and which players?

1. Increases RJ's ceiling. More responsibility on RJ's shoulders and more room to grow into a complete all around solid 2 way All Star (In my opninion). I believe RJs ceiling would grow offensively if Randle was replaced with a less ball dominate player like Obi.

2. Increases Obi's minutes. 8th pick and due for a new contract, it's time! You can see it towards the end of last season and now preseason. Let that lion out the cage already. His dunks alone are momentum swingers, especially at home.

But we all know, Randle aint going nowhere. I've said this before. He plays better, we hope for all star Randle again. He sucks, we have to keep playing him to increase his value. So basically he's not going nowhere fast, so deal with it. And so far, it's working. Maybe lockup Obi for a longterm cheap contract? I don't know, thats why Leon gets the big bucks.

Compare RJ vs 18 year Iggy career?
We all know iggy was excellent defenseive player and assist guy for the wing.
Why not compare their first three years instead of relying on memory:

https://basketball.realgm.com/player/And...
Seems young RJ does pretty good vs young Iggy. He also came into league two years younger than Iggy.
Think is Iggy did not really live up to certain star expectations given the money he got. What he did become was a glue guy centric to winning basketball and a very positive force on the court. Not a damn thing wrong with that.
RJ is 22 and won’t have a birthday until next summer. his first three years are really quite good except for those that want a real star hype kind of experience. We all want that. But second to that is this kind of player.

I think people under estimate RJ's athleticism. He's not graceful, which makes him appear slower or unathletic but he's explosive and quick

Everything you see on this highlight is from a 21 year old.

I'm not a long term buyer of RJ's high level potential/talent

We bought it.

fishmike wrote:I think people under estimate RJ's athleticism. He's not graceful, which makes him appear slower or unathletic but he's explosive and quick

I think he got a bit stronger this offseason. He looks like he’s jumping a bit higher than before. I don’t think he was ever considered unathletic, just not elite athletic. But he’s definitely putting the work in so, that may change.

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think people under estimate RJ's athleticism. He's not graceful, which makes him appear slower or unathletic but he's explosive and quick

I think he got a bit stronger this offseason. He looks like he’s jumping a bit higher than before. I don’t think he was ever considered unathletic, just not elite athletic. But he’s definitely putting the work in so, that may change.

RJ’s issue has been his quickness. He’s very strong for a 6’6 player and has always had a nba body going back to his one year at Duke. RJ has show flashes of quickness over the years but needs to be more consistent

fishmike wrote:I think people under estimate RJ's athleticism. He's not graceful, which makes him appear slower or unathletic but he's explosive and quick

I agree. I'm just as guilty as everybody else. We used to seeing guys jump and head but the rim. I forgot his name (Joe Something) who's no longer in the league. But thats how he warmed up.

What I liked about RJ from day 1 was his work ethic to be the best (Canadian Mamba). And his support circle was and still is solid (Coach K, Steve Nash, his dad, etc....)

So he was destined to be an NBA star.

I also agree that RJ looks stronger and jumping higher. He will use the off season workouts and strengthening programs to become that elite athlete eventually. But I'm very happy with his progression so far and he's already in great company (across multiple stats) with some of the best in the NBA at his current age of 21. If he stays focused, he has a chance to carve out a great career as a knick.

I don't know about Iggy, but to me he reminds me more of these two guys: Paul Pierce & Rudy Gay.
Not super fast, but strong and bullish, and gotta respect the outside shot.
I maintain that he should stay at the SF position, as he seems to me to be a prototypical SF

Nalod wrote:Compare RJ vs 18 year Iggy career?
We all know iggy was excellent defenseive player and assist guy for the wing.
Why not compare their first three years instead of relying on memory:

https://basketball.realgm.com/player/And...
Seems young RJ does pretty good vs young Iggy. He also came into league two years younger than Iggy.
Think is Iggy did not really live up to certain star expectations given the money he got. What he did become was a glue guy centric to winning basketball and a very positive force on the court. Not a damn thing wrong with that.
RJ is 22 and won’t have a birthday until next summer. his first three years are really quite good except for those that want a real star hype kind of experience. We all want that. But second to that is this kind of player.

Kemet wrote:RJ Barrett's low IQ has been a star performer vs Lottery teams the past 3 seasons .. In Barrett's 4th season we will see if Barrett has stepped-up his performance vs .500 teams to a winning performance on both sides of the court !!!

Says hi