Knicks · I'm not a long term buyer of RJ's high level potential/talent (page 16)

Kemet wrote:RJ Barrett's low IQ has been a star performer vs Lottery teams the past 3 seasons .. In Barrett's 4th season we will see if Barrett has stepped-up his performance vs .500 teams to a winning performance on both sides of the court !!!

Says hi

Same game.

Nalod wrote:
Same game.

You and I will never be on the same page on this one. Julius f’ed up pretty bad doing that thumbs down aka f-u.

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Same game.

You and I will never be on the same page on this one. Julius f’ed up pretty bad doing that thumbs down aka f-u.

But yes, most of the team was playing awful that entire game including RJ and Julius.

Something about RJ's game seems a little mechanical or rehearsed - I'm not sure how to explain it. He's practiced his moves. Maybe he has practiced them so much that it's almost like he's telegraphing what he's doing. Maybe it's as if he's missing some fluidity in how he mixes things up on his finishes. Maybe that's a bit of what they mean when they say he doesn't have a great sense of touch near the basket.

I do think he's made himself into a darned good player. At this phase in his career, what do we think - a 3rd or 4th best player on a finals caliber team? I think he can continue to nudge his way up.

I like a good Paul Pierce season as target upside for RJ. RJ has already more or less matched the likes of Rudy Gay, Caron Butler, and even Danny Granger in his age 21 season. Those guys were all pretty good players. Pierce transcended those other guys because of his plus playmaking skills. (he regularly averaged 4-5apg - the others were in that 2-3 range). RJ is basically a 3apg sort of player, nothing remarkable for a wing.

The two key things to watch for in his development this year:
* better finishing near the basket, and thus, increasing his overall FG% and eFG. He's been very poor throughout his career thus far (I do think his excuse of throwing balls against the glass on purpose because Mitch is around is a novel explanation, though!). He needs to nudge his eFG stat to .500 and beyond. He finished year 2 at .499 (almost!) and took a step back last year. I think his FT%/3pt% are passable and will fluctuate given that he didn't enter the NBA as a pure shooter. But his poor finishing at the rim basically cost him about $50m.

* becoming a better playmaker (let's get up to 3.5 to 4apg - you now have a few more weapons that can shoot in Brunson at PG and iHart)

RJ's progress hasnt been meteoric. More "slow and steady". Nothing wrong with that. Not a bad thing. Requires more patience from fans though.

RJ strength is in his fundamentals than an athletic ability to improvise. Is one better than the other? If you have both, like Kobe then it all comes together and its phenom. RJ is strong that dominates over a lose twitch type of build. The jumper is becoming rock solid. I can see a Joe Johnson type of delivery going forward. Strong kid who could shoot over opponents with solid stroke and foundation of form. The drives are coming along really nice.
Cam is the opposite. Loose delivery and very wirey. No two shots are the same. He falls back on his jumper and his drives from quickness and length.
Knicks paid RJ for a reason. he will be handfull for teams going foward.

GustavBahler wrote:RJ's progress hasnt been meteoric. More "slow and steady". Nothing wrong with that. Not a bad thing. Requires more patience from fans though.

Hahahahahaha!

KnickDanger wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:RJ's progress hasnt been meteoric. More "slow and steady". Nothing wrong with that. Not a bad thing. Requires more patience from fans though.

Hahahahahaha!

It’s wierd. Tyrese Halliburton is the greatest pg ever despite his teams losing and never making the playoffs. The Knicks made the playoffs and, while they missed the playoffs last year still won 37 games just a couple years after having the NBA’s worst record, — RJ must suck!

Philc1 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:RJ's progress hasnt been meteoric. More "slow and steady". Nothing wrong with that. Not a bad thing. Requires more patience from fans though.

Hahahahahaha!

It’s wierd. Tyrese Halliburton is the greatest pg ever despite his teams losing and never making the playoffs. The Knicks made the playoffs and, while they missed the playoffs last year still won 37 games just a couple years after having the NBA’s worst record, — RJ must suck!

Who started 63 games at PG the year we were 4th seed?
Not Tyrese!

RJ is no quitter. Confident that he will review film, work on his game, and play smarter.

Yeah I’m doubling down. I wanna be so wrong but RJ misses layup after layup after completely wide open 3. He just don’t got it.

martin wrote:Yeah I’m doubling down. I wanna be so wrong but RJ misses layup after layup after completely wide open 3. He just don’t got it.

I believe RJ's inability to use the glass is fixable. RJ treats using the glass as a bailout, instead of a weapon to neutralize a bigger defender. There is no aim that I can see, he just throws it up there and hopes it goes in.

I hope he devotes some running and standing drills focusing only on using the glass. Making those layups should carry over to shooting, when his confidence improves.

This is fixable, its a matter of RJ devoting the time exclusively to fixing it.

That feels like a punch to the nutsack

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/...

Here, not counting last summer’s draft, are the last 10 players chosen third in the draft: Bradley Beal; Otto Porter Jr; Joel Embiid; Jahlil Okafor; Jaylen Brown; Jayson Tatum; Luka Dončić; RJ; LaMelo Ball; Mobley. Three of those names have been MVP-level. Seven have been All-Star level. The other three have been Porter, Okafor and Barrett.

Yikes

https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/...

Barrett is the obvious choice because he shot at least 50 percent in each game - a massive accomplishment for him given his efficiency issues. How massive is it? The last time he made at least half of his shots in consecutive outings was games 41 and 42 of last season. The last time he did it in consecutive games while attempting at least 15 field goals in each was games 5 and 6 a year ago.

martin wrote:Yikes

https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/...

Barrett is the obvious choice because he shot at least 50 percent in each game - a massive accomplishment for him given his efficiency issues. How massive is it? The last time he made at least half of his shots in consecutive outings was games 41 and 42 of last season. The last time he did it in consecutive games while attempting at least 15 field goals in each was games 5 and 6 a year ago.

Thought this was interesting as well:

Defensively is where the drop off is supposed to come with Brunson, and while the defense has been 8.1 points per 100 possessions stingier when Brunson sits, that number is a bit deceiving. The on/off stats paint Evan Fournier (10.5 more points given up per 100 possessions when he plays) and Julius Randle (a whopping 12.2 / 100; more on that below) as the real culprits. And sure enough, when Brunson has played without Fournier, the Knicks have defended at a top-six rate, giving up 108.5 points in 280 possessions3.

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:Yikes

https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/...

Barrett is the obvious choice because he shot at least 50 percent in each game - a massive accomplishment for him given his efficiency issues. How massive is it? The last time he made at least half of his shots in consecutive outings was games 41 and 42 of last season. The last time he did it in consecutive games while attempting at least 15 field goals in each was games 5 and 6 a year ago.

Thought this was interesting as well:

Defensively is where the drop off is supposed to come with Brunson, and while the defense has been 8.1 points per 100 possessions stingier when Brunson sits, that number is a bit deceiving. The on/off stats paint Evan Fournier (10.5 more points given up per 100 possessions when he plays) and Julius Randle (a whopping 12.2 / 100; more on that below) as the real culprits. And sure enough, when Brunson has played without Fournier, the Knicks have defended at a top-six rate, giving up 108.5 points in 280 possessions3.

I don't yet think Brunson has the communication and rotations down yet, but he tries and he is smart. Same deal with Cam, I think familiarity is just the issue. He can FLY around and his length is really nice.

We all know Fournier sucks and should be out of rotation as soon as Grimes is back full.

I do think they are sticking RJ with particular assignments at his or coaching staff or both requests, just to learn and develop. He doesn't fly around and would be better suited to guard stronger players who pound you.

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:Yikes

https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/...

Barrett is the obvious choice because he shot at least 50 percent in each game - a massive accomplishment for him given his efficiency issues. How massive is it? The last time he made at least half of his shots in consecutive outings was games 41 and 42 of last season. The last time he did it in consecutive games while attempting at least 15 field goals in each was games 5 and 6 a year ago.

Thought this was interesting as well:

Defensively is where the drop off is supposed to come with Brunson, and while the defense has been 8.1 points per 100 possessions stingier when Brunson sits, that number is a bit deceiving. The on/off stats paint Evan Fournier (10.5 more points given up per 100 possessions when he plays) and Julius Randle (a whopping 12.2 / 100; more on that below) as the real culprits. And sure enough, when Brunson has played without Fournier, the Knicks have defended at a top-six rate, giving up 108.5 points in 280 possessions3.

I don't yet think Brunson has the communication and rotations down yet, but he tries and he is smart. Same deal with Cam, I think familiarity is just the issue. He can FLY around and his length is really nice.

We all know Fournier sucks and should be out of rotation as soon as Grimes is back full.

I do think they are sticking RJ with particular assignments at his or coaching staff or both requests, just to learn and develop. He doesn't fly around and would be better suited to guard stronger players who pound you.

We all knew EF was not a good defender. Some of us only expected him to hit threes.
Don't think JB is good defensively either. Important to manage expectations.

Grimes healthy and "living up to perceived ceiling" should be better than Cam or EF. But that is yet to happen. Cam seems like a good SF back up. He is a good defender and can spell that on second unit. Agree that RJ gets the best player assignment often. I am curious to see a lineup of Randle, Obi, Cam, RJ and IQ. Especially against teams like Boston. Think we would do a better job guarding the stripe.

Is this what McCarthy meant by "The Red Scare"?

RJ is nowhere near the level of athlete that Iggy was. I like RJ but Iggy was also a pretty nasty passer and crazy IQ.

Maybe the problem is both RJ and Knicks fans want him to be Jimmy Butler when he might be better of being a super PJ Tucker. His only plus thing right now seems to be strength and work ethic.

Would the Knicks be better off if RJ focused on defending the hell out of everyone and hitting corner threes instead of trying to create off the bounce and forcing shots while missing open teammates?

At this point there are multiple players who are better at scoring than RJ

I don’t get the PJ Tucker comparison. RJ is no where near his level of defense or 3pt shooting.

Iggy seems close but RJ is still not better than Iggy.

I think the best comparison for RJ is…………

RJ

He’s a unique player. Jack of all trades, Master of known.

I remember the media asking RJ in the off season several times during his career and his response is always the same. To work on his overall game. So to me he’s not shying away from the “Jack of all trades” label, he’s embracing it.

If that’s who RJ is then the coaching staff should use him that way, and Thibs is moving in that direction by switching up rotations during the game and letting RJ play with starters and a bench lineup. This also shows you that RJ might also be a prime candidate to trade for a specialty Star. A Jack of all type player is easier to find. We need subject matter experts.

I think RJ should attend Brunson footwork school. Now that would put RJ on another level.