Knicks · I'm not a long term buyer of RJ's high level potential/talent (page 2)

Disagree about his passing. I think he’s a very good passer despite the high number of TOs last night. Overall, he hasn’t been turning the ball over and he usually makes good decisions.

His defense at least seems to be improving and he has better rebounding numbers. He seems like a leader. He is a keeper.

I am buying. The RJB shares will rise high long term.

He has played in 64 games. That's like being 3/4 of the way into your rookie season.

I know what you mean about being mechanical, but his deliberate moves are better long term for health than the herky-jerky, D Rose, flashy moves. He's less at risk for ACL injuries. Fultz just blew out his ACL without any contact.

He won't be in his prime for another 6-7 years. He will surely make more progress on his already nice statlines.

Woah woah woah woah woah.....Same..at least for now. I think lack of consistent finishing or shooting has hurt him and his drives seem quite 1 dimensional but in due time he will add craft to his game. To be honest, I thought RJ would be a lot worse than he is right now because I hated him in college. Always wanted to be the hero, didn’t try on defense but he’s really matured in the NBA. He’s made levels as a passer and a defender so far and we’re only scratching the surface. I don’t think he’ll ever be a #1 or #2 option on a championship team, but give him 2-3 years and we could definitely have an all star on our hands.

no one on this thread has mentioned him, but I see Dwayne Wade as a comparison to RJ. Not an amazing outside shooter, clutch with the will to win. Get's fouled. Drives to the hoop.

He's 20. So in two years, we can start to compare them.

But - I also feel the jury is still out on him.

Is he a franchise talent?

I don't think so- because franchise talents show it at this age - see Lebron, Luka and just about any other top talents you want to include.

Can he be a very good player? Absolutely. But to answer Fishmike's the Tank is over, we are missing the thing you need from a tank - a franchise talent.

franco12 wrote:no one on this thread has mentioned him, but I see Dwayne Wade as a comparison to RJ. Not an amazing outside shooter, clutch with the will to win. Get's fouled. Drives to the hoop.

He's 20. So in two years, we can start to compare them.

But - I also feel the jury is still out on him.

Is he a franchise talent?

I don't think so- because franchise talents show it at this age - see Lebron, Luka and just about any other top talents you want to include.

Can he be a very good player? Absolutely. But to answer Fishmike's the Tank is over, we are missing the thing you need from a tank - a franchise talent.

D.Wade is a good comparison..I think thats RJs floor.
Sometimes RJs determination to be a franchise player and his drive to be an impactful player can get ahead of his talent. That comes with time. Right now, I love how he has everything you want in a franchise player. I've seen players with more skills, but lacking that 4th quarter take over in crunch time. RJ has that. The question is will his skill set catchup to his drive and determination to be great. I've been an RJ fan since Duke. Everybody was on zion. But I was like. If coach K trust RJ with the ball in critical moments of the game, then RJ is someone with the same potential as zion, becasue he has pt forward skills and he's not afraid of the moment.

Martin, I think BRIGGS hijacked your account. 😉

So this thread tells me RJ is either not going to pan out or at his worst he's Dwayne Wade.

Got it.

RJ is not a great shooter but that area can be improved on with hard work which he is doing

Example A: Jason Kidd

I have made this comparison before but I really see Pippen in RJ. Pippen was not the greatest perimeter shooter in the beginning of his career but he worked on it. Like Pippen, RJ is a slasher and can jump. RJ is also a very good defensive rebounder. Yes, Pippen was smooth but I think that is the only difference. I think RJ has the better mental makeup. Their shot is very comparable too. Pippen had a very mechanical shot.

Yup. I hate Pippen but I can see his game and skills in RJ

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:no one on this thread has mentioned him, but I see Dwayne Wade as a comparison to RJ. Not an amazing outside shooter, clutch with the will to win. Get's fouled. Drives to the hoop.

He's 20. So in two years, we can start to compare them.

But - I also feel the jury is still out on him.

Is he a franchise talent?

I don't think so- because franchise talents show it at this age - see Lebron, Luka and just about any other top talents you want to include.

Can he be a very good player? Absolutely. But to answer Fishmike's the Tank is over, we are missing the thing you need from a tank - a franchise talent.

D.Wade is a good comparison..I think thats RJs floor.
Sometimes RJs determination to be a franchise player and his drive to be an impactful player can get ahead of his talent. That comes with time. Right now, I love how he has everything you want in a franchise player. I've seen players with more skills, but lacking that 4th quarter take over in crunch time. RJ has that. The question is will his skill set catchup to his drive and determination to be great. I've been an RJ fan since Duke. Everybody was on zion. But I was like. If coach K trust RJ with the ball in critical moments of the game, then RJ is someone with the same potential as zion, becasue he has pt forward skills and he's not afraid of the moment.

Martin, I think BRIGGS hijacked your account. 😉

You think Hall of Famer — Dwayne Wade is RJ’s floor? I assume you meant ceiling. I thought I’ve been kind comparing him to TMac. This team isn’t really constructed for Barrett’s benefit and he is still doing pretty well in his second year. I’d be a bit more inclined to run Barrett without Randle (split them up) since I think they both are better off with the ball coming through them in the post. I trust the coaching already, so am happy to see it play out regardless of my impressions.

EwingsGlass wrote:

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:no one on this thread has mentioned him, but I see Dwayne Wade as a comparison to RJ. Not an amazing outside shooter, clutch with the will to win. Get's fouled. Drives to the hoop.

He's 20. So in two years, we can start to compare them.

But - I also feel the jury is still out on him.

Is he a franchise talent?

I don't think so- because franchise talents show it at this age - see Lebron, Luka and just about any other top talents you want to include.

Can he be a very good player? Absolutely. But to answer Fishmike's the Tank is over, we are missing the thing you need from a tank - a franchise talent.

D.Wade is a good comparison..I think thats RJs floor.
Sometimes RJs determination to be a franchise player and his drive to be an impactful player can get ahead of his talent. That comes with time. Right now, I love how he has everything you want in a franchise player. I've seen players with more skills, but lacking that 4th quarter take over in crunch time. RJ has that. The question is will his skill set catchup to his drive and determination to be great. I've been an RJ fan since Duke. Everybody was on zion. But I was like. If coach K trust RJ with the ball in critical moments of the game, then RJ is someone with the same potential as zion, becasue he has pt forward skills and he's not afraid of the moment.

Martin, I think BRIGGS hijacked your account. 😉

You think Hall of Famer — Dwayne Wade is RJ’s floor? I assume you meant ceiling. I thought I’ve been kind comparing him to TMac. This team isn’t really constructed for Barrett’s benefit and he is still doing pretty well in his second year. I’d be a bit more inclined to run Barrett without Randle (split them up) since I think they both are better off with the ball coming through them in the post. I trust the coaching already, so am happy to see it play out regardless of my impressions.

I don't get the DWade comparisons. Maybe because both players didn't have a 3point shot?

Wade was an elite athlete. He could blow by anyone he wanted. He shot VERY well out to 10 feet but never polished his game enough to be considered an elite mid range or distance shooter but he wasn't too bad in the mid range area. Best shot blocker at his size. Because of his ability to put ball on floor, was a very good assist guy.

RJ doesn't have the foot speed to get by our moms. He can certainly muscle his way past defenders but not just break his man down. AWFUL shooter outside of at the rim and FTs. Misses a ton of passes; for me, questionable vision.

EwingsGlass wrote:

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:no one on this thread has mentioned him, but I see Dwayne Wade as a comparison to RJ. Not an amazing outside shooter, clutch with the will to win. Get's fouled. Drives to the hoop.

He's 20. So in two years, we can start to compare them.

But - I also feel the jury is still out on him.

Is he a franchise talent?

I don't think so- because franchise talents show it at this age - see Lebron, Luka and just about any other top talents you want to include.

Can he be a very good player? Absolutely. But to answer Fishmike's the Tank is over, we are missing the thing you need from a tank - a franchise talent.

D.Wade is a good comparison..I think thats RJs floor.
Sometimes RJs determination to be a franchise player and his drive to be an impactful player can get ahead of his talent. That comes with time. Right now, I love how he has everything you want in a franchise player. I've seen players with more skills, but lacking that 4th quarter take over in crunch time. RJ has that. The question is will his skill set catchup to his drive and determination to be great. I've been an RJ fan since Duke. Everybody was on zion. But I was like. If coach K trust RJ with the ball in critical moments of the game, then RJ is someone with the same potential as zion, becasue he has pt forward skills and he's not afraid of the moment.

Martin, I think BRIGGS hijacked your account. 😉

You think Hall of Famer — Dwayne Wade is RJ’s floor? I assume you meant ceiling. I thought I’ve been kind comparing him to TMac. This team isn’t really constructed for Barrett’s benefit and he is still doing pretty well in his second year. I’d be a bit more inclined to run Barrett without Randle (split them up) since I think they both are better off with the ball coming through them in the post. I trust the coaching already, so am happy to see it play out regardless of my impressions.

I'm not comparing HOF wade to RJ. Im comparing 64 games into his nba career compared to RJ. But for the most part, both was not good 3pt shooter. But Wade was able to have a solid career. Thats all im saying. Yall trying to find an exact comparison, is part of the problem.

NYKBocker wrote:I have made this comparison before but I really see Pippen in RJ. Pippen was not the greatest perimeter shooter in the beginning of his career but he worked on it. Like Pippen, RJ is a slasher and can jump. RJ is also a very good defensive rebounder. Yes, Pippen was smooth but I think that is the only difference. I think RJ has the better mental makeup. Their shot is very comparable too. Pippen had a very mechanical shot.

Yup. I hate Pippen but I can see his game and skills in RJ

Pippen improved his shot by relying on the backboard/bank shots. It's technique that is lost for the most part mainly because most players aren't shooting as many mid range jumpers anymore. Would love for RJ to take less 3's and focus on the midrange....Also, look to the use the backboard, more. Pippen was a more fluid player with and without the ball than RJ is...

blkexec wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:no one on this thread has mentioned him, but I see Dwayne Wade as a comparison to RJ. Not an amazing outside shooter, clutch with the will to win. Get's fouled. Drives to the hoop.

He's 20. So in two years, we can start to compare them.

But - I also feel the jury is still out on him.

Is he a franchise talent?

I don't think so- because franchise talents show it at this age - see Lebron, Luka and just about any other top talents you want to include.

Can he be a very good player? Absolutely. But to answer Fishmike's the Tank is over, we are missing the thing you need from a tank - a franchise talent.

D.Wade is a good comparison..I think thats RJs floor.
Sometimes RJs determination to be a franchise player and his drive to be an impactful player can get ahead of his talent. That comes with time. Right now, I love how he has everything you want in a franchise player. I've seen players with more skills, but lacking that 4th quarter take over in crunch time. RJ has that. The question is will his skill set catchup to his drive and determination to be great. I've been an RJ fan since Duke. Everybody was on zion. But I was like. If coach K trust RJ with the ball in critical moments of the game, then RJ is someone with the same potential as zion, becasue he has pt forward skills and he's not afraid of the moment.

Martin, I think BRIGGS hijacked your account. 😉

You think Hall of Famer — Dwayne Wade is RJ’s floor? I assume you meant ceiling. I thought I’ve been kind comparing him to TMac. This team isn’t really constructed for Barrett’s benefit and he is still doing pretty well in his second year. I’d be a bit more inclined to run Barrett without Randle (split them up) since I think they both are better off with the ball coming through them in the post. I trust the coaching already, so am happy to see it play out regardless of my impressions.

I'm not comparing HOF wade to RJ. Im comparing 64 games into his nba career compared to RJ. But for the most part, both was not good 3pt shooter. But Wade was able to have a solid career. Thats all im saying. Yall trying to find an exact comparison, is part of the problem.

Why didn't you just say that then? And all you noted was exactly 1 aspect of comparison: Both were not distance shooters.

Outside of maybe both of them being good rebounders, why choose Wade? Completely different players IMHO

Uptown wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I have made this comparison before but I really see Pippen in RJ. Pippen was not the greatest perimeter shooter in the beginning of his career but he worked on it. Like Pippen, RJ is a slasher and can jump. RJ is also a very good defensive rebounder. Yes, Pippen was smooth but I think that is the only difference. I think RJ has the better mental makeup. Their shot is very comparable too. Pippen had a very mechanical shot.

Yup. I hate Pippen but I can see his game and skills in RJ

Pippen improved his shot by relying on the backboard/bank shots. It's technique that is lost for the most part mainly because most players aren't shooting as many mid range jumpers anymore. Would love for RJ to take less 3's and focus on the midrange....Also, look to the use the backboard, more. Pippen was a more fluid player with and without the ball than RJ is...

I agree. I think RJ should only take 3s when wide open and limit it to around 2-3 open 3s per game. Eyeball test, he looks very accurate mid range.

NYKBocker wrote:

Uptown wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I have made this comparison before but I really see Pippen in RJ. Pippen was not the greatest perimeter shooter in the beginning of his career but he worked on it. Like Pippen, RJ is a slasher and can jump. RJ is also a very good defensive rebounder. Yes, Pippen was smooth but I think that is the only difference. I think RJ has the better mental makeup. Their shot is very comparable too. Pippen had a very mechanical shot.

Yup. I hate Pippen but I can see his game and skills in RJ

Pippen improved his shot by relying on the backboard/bank shots. It's technique that is lost for the most part mainly because most players aren't shooting as many mid range jumpers anymore. Would love for RJ to take less 3's and focus on the midrange....Also, look to the use the backboard, more. Pippen was a more fluid player with and without the ball than RJ is...

I agree. I think RJ should only take 3s when wide open and limit it to around 2-3 open 3s per game. Eyeball test, he looks very accurate mid range.

My eyeball test sees Frank level shooting, but with confidence

Look at it this way. RJ was the 3rd pick in the draft. Take a look at the 3rd pick in the draft over the last 5 years (Not counting this year as we have less of a sample size):

2018 Luka
2017 Tatum
2016 Jaylen Brown
2015 Okafor
2014 Embiid

Other than Okafor, everyone else lived-up to or exceeded expectations. Luka is putting up all-time numbers, Tatum is an allstar and on the verge of being an elite level player, Brown is playing like an allstar this year and Embiid may very well be in the MVP discussion this year.

RJ is just now entering his 2nd year, and its still early. If you want to compare 1st year stats, RJ's numbers are closest to Browns, but keep in mind, Brown only played 17 mins per. In his second year, when Brown played over 30 mins, he shot 47% from the field and 39% from 3. Outside of the stats, Brown passed the eye ball test because of his explosiveness. RJ is 20, that's a good thing. Still has a long way to good. I think with seasoning, and better and deeper understanding of shot selection and how to take the shots he wants as opposed to taking the shots the defense wants him take, we can see some improvement.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:no one on this thread has mentioned him, but I see Dwayne Wade as a comparison to RJ. Not an amazing outside shooter, clutch with the will to win. Get's fouled. Drives to the hoop.

He's 20. So in two years, we can start to compare them.

But - I also feel the jury is still out on him.

Is he a franchise talent?

I don't think so- because franchise talents show it at this age - see Lebron, Luka and just about any other top talents you want to include.

Can he be a very good player? Absolutely. But to answer Fishmike's the Tank is over, we are missing the thing you need from a tank - a franchise talent.

D.Wade is a good comparison..I think thats RJs floor.
Sometimes RJs determination to be a franchise player and his drive to be an impactful player can get ahead of his talent. That comes with time. Right now, I love how he has everything you want in a franchise player. I've seen players with more skills, but lacking that 4th quarter take over in crunch time. RJ has that. The question is will his skill set catchup to his drive and determination to be great. I've been an RJ fan since Duke. Everybody was on zion. But I was like. If coach K trust RJ with the ball in critical moments of the game, then RJ is someone with the same potential as zion, becasue he has pt forward skills and he's not afraid of the moment.

Martin, I think BRIGGS hijacked your account. 😉

You think Hall of Famer — Dwayne Wade is RJ’s floor? I assume you meant ceiling. I thought I’ve been kind comparing him to TMac. This team isn’t really constructed for Barrett’s benefit and he is still doing pretty well in his second year. I’d be a bit more inclined to run Barrett without Randle (split them up) since I think they both are better off with the ball coming through them in the post. I trust the coaching already, so am happy to see it play out regardless of my impressions.

I'm not comparing HOF wade to RJ. Im comparing 64 games into his nba career compared to RJ. But for the most part, both was not good 3pt shooter. But Wade was able to have a solid career. Thats all im saying. Yall trying to find an exact comparison, is part of the problem.

Why didn't you just say that then? And all you noted was exactly 1 aspect of comparison: Both were not distance shooters.

Outside of maybe both of them being good rebounders, why choose Wade? Completely different players IMHO

Martin. Check the history. I didnt CHOOSE wade...I simply agreed with franc.

As far as how you see Wade and my view of Wade is probably different...which is fine. Im not as high on him as you are. So when I think of Wade, I usually think of his heart, his energy, his on the floor leadership, his lack of a 3pt game, but still reached star status. Those similarities first came to me when franco mentioned it.

But nobody will be exactly like RJ....big, strong, and agile lefty...but his heart to me is his biggest asset. He's not afraid of the moment. Taking the winning shot. He improves on his weaknesses and wants to be great. I can't ask for any more than that. Sometimes we allow the position these guys are picked in the draft. To blind us from how he's still an impactful player with slashing, shooting and defending potential for a 20 yr old.

Rivers to Starks is my comparison

RJ 7-21 from the field....

Uptown wrote:RJ 7-21 from the field....

Well....lets see how thibs handles RJs minutes moving forward, especially when Burks 🤔 returns. Not only his shooting, but his defense was slacking also. He still played hard, but didn't look sharp on both ends. Burks is 1 of the few consistent guards on the team, with a reliable jumper....and he can penetrate the paint, plus play defense. So let's see if thibs is a smart coach and recognize this shift he needs to make, if RJ and Randle continue to show fatigue. Both looked tired or burned out that first half.

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:no one on this thread has mentioned him, but I see Dwayne Wade as a comparison to RJ. Not an amazing outside shooter, clutch with the will to win. Get's fouled. Drives to the hoop.

He's 20. So in two years, we can start to compare them.

But - I also feel the jury is still out on him.

Is he a franchise talent?

I don't think so- because franchise talents show it at this age - see Lebron, Luka and just about any other top talents you want to include.

Can he be a very good player? Absolutely. But to answer Fishmike's the Tank is over, we are missing the thing you need from a tank - a franchise talent.

D.Wade is a good comparison..I think thats RJs floor.
Sometimes RJs determination to be a franchise player and his drive to be an impactful player can get ahead of his talent. That comes with time. Right now, I love how he has everything you want in a franchise player. I've seen players with more skills, but lacking that 4th quarter take over in crunch time. RJ has that. The question is will his skill set catchup to his drive and determination to be great. I've been an RJ fan since Duke. Everybody was on zion. But I was like. If coach K trust RJ with the ball in critical moments of the game, then RJ is someone with the same potential as zion, becasue he has pt forward skills and he's not afraid of the moment.

Martin, I think BRIGGS hijacked your account. 😉

You think Hall of Famer — Dwayne Wade is RJ’s floor? I assume you meant ceiling. I thought I’ve been kind comparing him to TMac. This team isn’t really constructed for Barrett’s benefit and he is still doing pretty well in his second year. I’d be a bit more inclined to run Barrett without Randle (split them up) since I think they both are better off with the ball coming through them in the post. I trust the coaching already, so am happy to see it play out regardless of my impressions.

I'm not comparing HOF wade to RJ. Im comparing 64 games into his nba career compared to RJ. But for the most part, both was not good 3pt shooter. But Wade was able to have a solid career. Thats all im saying. Yall trying to find an exact comparison, is part of the problem.

Why didn't you just say that then? And all you noted was exactly 1 aspect of comparison: Both were not distance shooters.

Outside of maybe both of them being good rebounders, why choose Wade? Completely different players IMHO

Martin. Check the history. I didnt CHOOSE wade...I simply agreed with franc.

As far as how you see Wade and my view of Wade is probably different...which is fine. Im not as high on him as you are. So when I think of Wade, I usually think of his heart, his energy, his on the floor leadership, his lack of a 3pt game, but still reached star status. Those similarities first came to me when franco mentioned it.

But nobody will be exactly like RJ....big, strong, and agile lefty...but his heart to me is his biggest asset. He's not afraid of the moment. Taking the winning shot. He improves on his weaknesses and wants to be great. I can't ask for any more than that. Sometimes we allow the position these guys are picked in the draft. To blind us from how he's still an impactful player with slashing, shooting and defending potential for a 20 yr old.

Rivers to Starks is my comparison

Let me own the D Wade comparison. It's what pops into my head. I see that vs Tmac - to each their own.

I'd agree about Wade/RJ - not great shooters. I never thought D Wade was the quickest player, but he always managed to be crafty and got to the basket, drew fouls- and hit clutch shots - sure, he shot at a low percentage, but when the game was on the line, he would show up.