Knicks · Knicks interested in D. Rose....Again! (page 8)

ToddTT @ 2/7/2021 2:13 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
ToddTT wrote:Clyde’s not a fan of acquiring Rose either, based on his comments during this afternoon’s game.

Heat announcers thought it was a good trade.

. Yeah I’m sure they do 😂

Aren't we just quoting reactions without knowing what is actually going on?

I’m not quoting anything. I’m going by what I know if Rose and since he was here already. Honestly there is no good reason to bring him here to play him big minutes when we have IQ and otters who can actually defend. Even his offense is t what close to what it once was. If we got a shooter I would have been happy but Rose makes zero sense. Usually in a trade you have some fans who like it. This trade pretty much unanimously is not liked which tells you something 😂

I was expecting Clyde to put a little positive spin on the idea of acquiring Rose. Nope, nothing. Based on how much I respect Clyde’s knowledge, it made me feel even worse about a possible trade.

joec32033 @ 2/7/2021 2:16 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
ToddTT wrote:Clyde’s not a fan of acquiring Rose either, based on his comments during this afternoon’s game.

Heat announcers thought it was a good trade.

. Yeah I’m sure they do 😂

Aren't we just quoting reactions without knowing what is actually going on?

I’m not quoting anything. I’m going by what I know if Rose and since he was here already. Honestly there is no good reason to bring him here to play him big minutes when we have IQ and otters who can actually defend. Even his offense is t what close to what it once was. If we got a shooter I would have been happy but Rose makes zero sense. Usually in a trade you have some fans who like it. This trade pretty much unanimously is not liked which tells you something 😂

This trade is pretty much unanimously unlike by a freaking message board. Macri even called out people treating it as a "travesty" about 7 posts up. This is literally people crying because of the player, not realizing it isn't the player who was here years ago. He has been a bench player for YEARS now. He is being coached by a coach he has respect for.

Literally everything is different than it was before.

I am not even saying I like the trade. To me it is an eh trade to solidify the bench, it is a trade trading a useless piece for a usable one. Nothing more nothing less. There are no signs this is the apocalypse some guys here are making this out to be.

StarksEwing1 @ 2/7/2021 2:19 PM
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
ToddTT wrote:Clyde’s not a fan of acquiring Rose either, based on his comments during this afternoon’s game.

Heat announcers thought it was a good trade.

. Yeah I’m sure they do 😂

Aren't we just quoting reactions without knowing what is actually going on?

I’m not quoting anything. I’m going by what I know if Rose and since he was here already. Honestly there is no good reason to bring him here to play him big minutes when we have IQ and otters who can actually defend. Even his offense is t what close to what it once was. If we got a shooter I would have been happy but Rose makes zero sense. Usually in a trade you have some fans who like it. This trade pretty much unanimously is not liked which tells you something 😂

This trade is pretty much unanimously unlike by a freaking message board. Marriage even called out people treating it as a "travesty" about 7 posts up. This is literally people crying because of the player, not realizing it isn't the player who was here years ago. He has been a bench player for YEARS now. He is being coached by a coach he has respect for.

Literally everything is different than it was before.

I am not even saying I like the trade. To me it is an eh trade to solidify the bench, it is a trade trading a useless piece for a usable one. Nothing more nothing less. There are no signs this is the apocalypse some guys here are making this out to be.

I think you’re misinterpreting. Nobody is saying “it’s an apocalypse”. We simply feel it makes no sense which is a legit thought. Rose is going to probably Decent minutes and won’t be surprised if he starts. Anyway let’s just agree to disagree and move on
Jmpasq @ 2/7/2021 2:26 PM
I am so angry. This franchise sucks so hard. This is so fucking stupid I can't even comprehend it
BigDaddyG @ 2/7/2021 2:30 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
ToddTT wrote:Clyde’s not a fan of acquiring Rose either, based on his comments during this afternoon’s game.

Heat announcers thought it was a good trade.

. Yeah I’m sure they do 😂

Aren't we just quoting reactions without knowing what is actually going on?

I’m not quoting anything. I’m going by what I know if Rose and since he was here already. Honestly there is no good reason to bring him here to play him big minutes when we have IQ and otters who can actually defend. Even his offense is t what close to what it once was. If we got a shooter I would have been happy but Rose makes zero sense. Usually in a trade you have some fans who like it. This trade pretty much unanimously is not liked which tells you something 😂

This trade is pretty much unanimously unlike by a freaking message board. Marriage even called out people treating it as a "travesty" about 7 posts up. This is literally people crying because of the player, not realizing it isn't the player who was here years ago. He has been a bench player for YEARS now. He is being coached by a coach he has respect for.

Literally everything is different than it was before.

I am not even saying I like the trade. To me it is an eh trade to solidify the bench, it is a trade trading a useless piece for a usable one. Nothing more nothing less. There are no signs this is the apocalypse some guys here are making this out to be.

I think you’re misinterpreting. Nobody is saying “it’s an apocalypse”. We simply feel it makes no sense which is a legit thought. Rose is going to probably Decent minutes and won’t be surprised if he starts. Anyway let’s just agree to disagree and move on

He has been a high usage, 20+ min a game player for years. He will get his minutes. Maybe even more since Thibs doesn't seem to give a eff about load management. Will it be Payton's or IQ's. We know Thibs loves his vets. This move maybe seem simple, but the consequences could be major.
StarksEwing1 @ 2/7/2021 2:31 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
ToddTT wrote:Clyde’s not a fan of acquiring Rose either, based on his comments during this afternoon’s game.

Heat announcers thought it was a good trade.

. Yeah I’m sure they do 😂

Aren't we just quoting reactions without knowing what is actually going on?

I’m not quoting anything. I’m going by what I know if Rose and since he was here already. Honestly there is no good reason to bring him here to play him big minutes when we have IQ and otters who can actually defend. Even his offense is t what close to what it once was. If we got a shooter I would have been happy but Rose makes zero sense. Usually in a trade you have some fans who like it. This trade pretty much unanimously is not liked which tells you something 😂

This trade is pretty much unanimously unlike by a freaking message board. Marriage even called out people treating it as a "travesty" about 7 posts up. This is literally people crying because of the player, not realizing it isn't the player who was here years ago. He has been a bench player for YEARS now. He is being coached by a coach he has respect for.

Literally everything is different than it was before.

I am not even saying I like the trade. To me it is an eh trade to solidify the bench, it is a trade trading a useless piece for a usable one. Nothing more nothing less. There are no signs this is the apocalypse some guys here are making this out to be.

I think you’re misinterpreting. Nobody is saying “it’s an apocalypse”. We simply feel it makes no sense which is a legit thought. Rose is going to probably Decent minutes and won’t be surprised if he starts. Anyway let’s just agree to disagree and move on

He has been a high usage, 20+ min a game player for years. He will get his minutes. Maybe even more since Thibs doesn't seem to give a eff about load management. Will it be Payton's or IQ's. We know Thibs loves his vets. This move maybe seem simple, but the consequences could be major.
Agree
ramtour420 @ 2/7/2021 2:34 PM
This trade could have been worse. We really didn't give anything up. As long as it doesn't become subtraction y addition ( meaning less PT for the kids) it's not bad. That's a big if tho. Likely this means lowered development for IQ and no PT for Frank.
joec32033 @ 2/7/2021 2:35 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
ToddTT wrote:Clyde’s not a fan of acquiring Rose either, based on his comments during this afternoon’s game.

Heat announcers thought it was a good trade.

. Yeah I’m sure they do 😂

Aren't we just quoting reactions without knowing what is actually going on?

I’m not quoting anything. I’m going by what I know if Rose and since he was here already. Honestly there is no good reason to bring him here to play him big minutes when we have IQ and otters who can actually defend. Even his offense is t what close to what it once was. If we got a shooter I would have been happy but Rose makes zero sense. Usually in a trade you have some fans who like it. This trade pretty much unanimously is not liked which tells you something 😂

This trade is pretty much unanimously unlike by a freaking message board. Marriage even called out people treating it as a "travesty" about 7 posts up. This is literally people crying because of the player, not realizing it isn't the player who was here years ago. He has been a bench player for YEARS now. He is being coached by a coach he has respect for.

Literally everything is different than it was before.

I am not even saying I like the trade. To me it is an eh trade to solidify the bench, it is a trade trading a useless piece for a usable one. Nothing more nothing less. There are no signs this is the apocalypse some guys here are making this out to be.

I think you’re misinterpreting. Nobody is saying “it’s an apocalypse”. We simply feel it makes no sense which is a legit thought. Rose is going to probably Decent minutes and won’t be surprised if he starts. Anyway let’s just agree to disagree and move on

If you want to move on fine, but this thread is about the Knicks acquiring Rose, right?

On that note this is an open post directed at everyone but you...

Granted he isn't the shooter that they need, but the other need the Knicks had was scoring. The Knicks just acquired a player known for his scoring, whose role has been off the bench for years now. They traded a piece they had less than no use for and that is not any of pick that everyone wants to keep. They upgraded their talent level for minimal cost. And possibly, IMO, opened up an avenue for Quickley to start with minimal pressure of orchestrating the offense while not losing scoring off the bench.

Regarding Thibs, People worried about Gibson stealing minutes he hasn't. Everyone is crying about Payton starting but this team is as I type 11-13-a record no one thought they would have-with him starting. They are playing competitively every game, even against teams they have no business competing against.

Please, anyone but StarksEwing1 since he has moved on, tell me where I am wrong.

joec32033 @ 2/7/2021 2:37 PM
ramtour420 wrote:This trade could have been worse. We really didn't give anything up. As long as it doesn't become subtraction y addition ( meaning less PT for the kids) it's not bad. That's a big if tho. Likely this means lowered development for IQ and no PT for Frank.

It doesn't likely mean anything yet. Thibs loves Quickley and Frank has had no playing time before this trade. Frank's minutes have no bearing on this trade and vice versa, IMO.

StarksEwing1 @ 2/7/2021 2:40 PM
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
ToddTT wrote:Clyde’s not a fan of acquiring Rose either, based on his comments during this afternoon’s game.

Heat announcers thought it was a good trade.

. Yeah I’m sure they do 😂

Aren't we just quoting reactions without knowing what is actually going on?

I’m not quoting anything. I’m going by what I know if Rose and since he was here already. Honestly there is no good reason to bring him here to play him big minutes when we have IQ and otters who can actually defend. Even his offense is t what close to what it once was. If we got a shooter I would have been happy but Rose makes zero sense. Usually in a trade you have some fans who like it. This trade pretty much unanimously is not liked which tells you something 😂

This trade is pretty much unanimously unlike by a freaking message board. Marriage even called out people treating it as a "travesty" about 7 posts up. This is literally people crying because of the player, not realizing it isn't the player who was here years ago. He has been a bench player for YEARS now. He is being coached by a coach he has respect for.

Literally everything is different than it was before.

I am not even saying I like the trade. To me it is an eh trade to solidify the bench, it is a trade trading a useless piece for a usable one. Nothing more nothing less. There are no signs this is the apocalypse some guys here are making this out to be.

I think you’re misinterpreting. Nobody is saying “it’s an apocalypse”. We simply feel it makes no sense which is a legit thought. Rose is going to probably Decent minutes and won’t be surprised if he starts. Anyway let’s just agree to disagree and move on

If you want to move on fine, but this thread is about the Knicks acquiring Rose, right?

On that note this is an open post directed at everyone but you...

Granted he isn't the shooter that they need, but the other need the Knicks had was scoring. The Knicks just acquired a player known for his scoring, whose role has been off the bench for years now. They traded a piece they had less than no use for and that is not any of pick that everyone wants to keep. They upgraded their talent level for minimal cost. And possibly, IMO, opened up an avenue for Quickley to start with minimal pressure of orchestrating the offense while not losing scoring off the bench.

Regarding Thibs, People worried about Gibson stealing minutes he hasn't. Everyone is crying about Payton starting but this team is as I type 11-13-a record no one thought they would have-with him starting. They are playing competitively every game, even against teams they have no business competing against.

Please, anyone but StarksEwing1 since he has moved on, tell me where I am wrong.

Chill out dude 😂. I never said you couldnt speak your mind.
joec32033 @ 2/7/2021 2:44 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
ToddTT wrote:Clyde’s not a fan of acquiring Rose either, based on his comments during this afternoon’s game.

Heat announcers thought it was a good trade.

. Yeah I’m sure they do 😂

Aren't we just quoting reactions without knowing what is actually going on?

I’m not quoting anything. I’m going by what I know if Rose and since he was here already. Honestly there is no good reason to bring him here to play him big minutes when we have IQ and otters who can actually defend. Even his offense is t what close to what it once was. If we got a shooter I would have been happy but Rose makes zero sense. Usually in a trade you have some fans who like it. This trade pretty much unanimously is not liked which tells you something 😂

This trade is pretty much unanimously unlike by a freaking message board. Marriage even called out people treating it as a "travesty" about 7 posts up. This is literally people crying because of the player, not realizing it isn't the player who was here years ago. He has been a bench player for YEARS now. He is being coached by a coach he has respect for.

Literally everything is different than it was before.

I am not even saying I like the trade. To me it is an eh trade to solidify the bench, it is a trade trading a useless piece for a usable one. Nothing more nothing less. There are no signs this is the apocalypse some guys here are making this out to be.

I think you’re misinterpreting. Nobody is saying “it’s an apocalypse”. We simply feel it makes no sense which is a legit thought. Rose is going to probably Decent minutes and won’t be surprised if he starts. Anyway let’s just agree to disagree and move on

He has been a high usage, 20+ min a game player for years. He will get his minutes. Maybe even more since Thibs doesn't seem to give a eff about load management. Will it be Payton's or IQ's. We know Thibs loves his vets. This move maybe seem simple, but the consequences could be major.

But load management had nothing to do with Rose coming off the bench in Detroit. Since he left, Roses's MPG have been 19, 12, 27, 26(this year he was a viable 6th man of the year candidate), 23.

martin @ 2/7/2021 2:47 PM
My thought is Rose is added to help IQ to learn the game.

Rivers is a secondary ball handler with IQ and just get guys involved.

Maybe this will also help Obi and that unit

BigDaddyG @ 2/7/2021 2:53 PM
joec32033 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
ToddTT wrote:Clyde’s not a fan of acquiring Rose either, based on his comments during this afternoon’s game.

Heat announcers thought it was a good trade.

. Yeah I’m sure they do 😂

Aren't we just quoting reactions without knowing what is actually going on?

I’m not quoting anything. I’m going by what I know if Rose and since he was here already. Honestly there is no good reason to bring him here to play him big minutes when we have IQ and otters who can actually defend. Even his offense is t what close to what it once was. If we got a shooter I would have been happy but Rose makes zero sense. Usually in a trade you have some fans who like it. This trade pretty much unanimously is not liked which tells you something 😂

This trade is pretty much unanimously unlike by a freaking message board. Marriage even called out people treating it as a "travesty" about 7 posts up. This is literally people crying because of the player, not realizing it isn't the player who was here years ago. He has been a bench player for YEARS now. He is being coached by a coach he has respect for.

Literally everything is different than it was before.

I am not even saying I like the trade. To me it is an eh trade to solidify the bench, it is a trade trading a useless piece for a usable one. Nothing more nothing less. There are no signs this is the apocalypse some guys here are making this out to be.

I think you’re misinterpreting. Nobody is saying “it’s an apocalypse”. We simply feel it makes no sense which is a legit thought. Rose is going to probably Decent minutes and won’t be surprised if he starts. Anyway let’s just agree to disagree and move on

He has been a high usage, 20+ min a game player for years. He will get his minutes. Maybe even more since Thibs doesn't seem to give a eff about load management. Will it be Payton's or IQ's. We know Thibs loves his vets. This move maybe seem simple, but the consequences could be major.

But load management had nothing to do with Rose coming off the bench in Detroit. Since he left, Roses's MPG have been 19, 12, 27, 26(this year he was a viable 6th man of the year candidate), 23.


You mean 17,27, 26 (Rose played for three teams in 2017-2018). Take out that blip (where he was expected to play support roles for teams featuring LeBron and Jimmy Butler) and he has been a high usage, 20+ min gunner. This move doesn't make sense. Also, load management played a significant but ole in his minutes distribution.
StarksEwing1 @ 2/7/2021 2:54 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
ToddTT wrote:Clyde’s not a fan of acquiring Rose either, based on his comments during this afternoon’s game.

Heat announcers thought it was a good trade.

. Yeah I’m sure they do 😂

Aren't we just quoting reactions without knowing what is actually going on?

I’m not quoting anything. I’m going by what I know if Rose and since he was here already. Honestly there is no good reason to bring him here to play him big minutes when we have IQ and otters who can actually defend. Even his offense is t what close to what it once was. If we got a shooter I would have been happy but Rose makes zero sense. Usually in a trade you have some fans who like it. This trade pretty much unanimously is not liked which tells you something 😂

This trade is pretty much unanimously unlike by a freaking message board. Marriage even called out people treating it as a "travesty" about 7 posts up. This is literally people crying because of the player, not realizing it isn't the player who was here years ago. He has been a bench player for YEARS now. He is being coached by a coach he has respect for.

Literally everything is different than it was before.

I am not even saying I like the trade. To me it is an eh trade to solidify the bench, it is a trade trading a useless piece for a usable one. Nothing more nothing less. There are no signs this is the apocalypse some guys here are making this out to be.

I think you’re misinterpreting. Nobody is saying “it’s an apocalypse”. We simply feel it makes no sense which is a legit thought. Rose is going to probably Decent minutes and won’t be surprised if he starts. Anyway let’s just agree to disagree and move on

He has been a high usage, 20+ min a game player for years. He will get his minutes. Maybe even more since Thibs doesn't seem to give a eff about load management. Will it be Payton's or IQ's. We know Thibs loves his vets. This move maybe seem simple, but the consequences could be major.

But load management had nothing to do with Rose coming off the bench in Detroit. Since he left, Roses's MPG have been 19, 12, 27, 26(this year he was a viable 6th man of the year candidate), 23.


You mean 17,27, 26 (Rose played for three teams in 2017-2018). Take out that blip (where he was expected to play support roles for teams featuring LeBron and Jimmy Butler) and he has been a high usage, 20+ min gunner. This move doesn't make sense.
Absolutely makes no sense
Knicksfan @ 2/7/2021 2:55 PM
martin wrote:My thought is Rose is added to help IQ to learn the game.

Rivers is a secondary ball handler with IQ and just get guys involved.

Maybe this will also help Obi and that unit

I’d love to think this way.

Yet the way Thibs coaches, the way he has used Quickley lately and the way he uses veterans tells me this is to use Rose as much as he wants.

knicks1248 @ 2/7/2021 2:57 PM
smackeddog wrote:
TPercy wrote:Great!

Ha, can't believe Frank survives a trade AGAIN- he's like Rasputin!😂

Terrible for frank, he gets moved further down the bench, while Dsj will be able to get plenty of PT
in Detroit.

Rookie @ 2/7/2021 3:02 PM
martin wrote:My thought is Rose is added to help IQ to learn the game.

Rivers is a secondary ball handler with IQ and just get guys involved.

Maybe this will also help Obi and that unit

I like this take

joec32033 @ 2/7/2021 3:03 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
ToddTT wrote:Clyde’s not a fan of acquiring Rose either, based on his comments during this afternoon’s game.

Heat announcers thought it was a good trade.

. Yeah I’m sure they do 😂

Aren't we just quoting reactions without knowing what is actually going on?

I’m not quoting anything. I’m going by what I know if Rose and since he was here already. Honestly there is no good reason to bring him here to play him big minutes when we have IQ and otters who can actually defend. Even his offense is t what close to what it once was. If we got a shooter I would have been happy but Rose makes zero sense. Usually in a trade you have some fans who like it. This trade pretty much unanimously is not liked which tells you something 😂

This trade is pretty much unanimously unlike by a freaking message board. Marriage even called out people treating it as a "travesty" about 7 posts up. This is literally people crying because of the player, not realizing it isn't the player who was here years ago. He has been a bench player for YEARS now. He is being coached by a coach he has respect for.

Literally everything is different than it was before.

I am not even saying I like the trade. To me it is an eh trade to solidify the bench, it is a trade trading a useless piece for a usable one. Nothing more nothing less. There are no signs this is the apocalypse some guys here are making this out to be.

I think you’re misinterpreting. Nobody is saying “it’s an apocalypse”. We simply feel it makes no sense which is a legit thought. Rose is going to probably Decent minutes and won’t be surprised if he starts. Anyway let’s just agree to disagree and move on

He has been a high usage, 20+ min a game player for years. He will get his minutes. Maybe even more since Thibs doesn't seem to give a eff about load management. Will it be Payton's or IQ's. We know Thibs loves his vets. This move maybe seem simple, but the consequences could be major.

But load management had nothing to do with Rose coming off the bench in Detroit. Since he left, Roses's MPG have been 19, 12, 27, 26(this year he was a viable 6th man of the year candidate), 23.


You mean 17,27, 26 (Rose played for three teams in 2017-2018). Take out that blip (where he was expected to play support roles for teams featuring LeBron and Jimmy Butler) and he has been a high usage, 20+ min gunner. This move doesn't make sense. Also, load management played a significant but ole in his minutes distribution.

I missed the split from Cleveland and Minnesota, thanks for catching that. Point being those minutes came off the bench in Detroit for 2 years. And it isn't like he is playing crazy unproductive minutes. He was putting up quality minutes.

joec32033 @ 2/7/2021 3:07 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
TPercy wrote:Great!

Ha, can't believe Frank survives a trade AGAIN- he's like Rasputin!😂

Terrible for frank, he gets moved further down the bench, while Dsj will be able to get plenty of PT
in Detroit.

Is there any point where we take into account not a single coach has seen enough in Frank to develop him as a PG (I hear from Hahn that the Knicks were trying to get him playing time a a defensive wing and he refused to play anything but PG) and actually start to blame Frank for not helping himself by being doing anything possible to be able to consistently get on the floor and then putting up productive minutes once he gets there?

Thibs was supposed to be the perfect coach for him and look.

martin @ 2/7/2021 3:07 PM
Knicksfan wrote:
martin wrote:My thought is Rose is added to help IQ to learn the game.

Rivers is a secondary ball handler with IQ and just get guys involved.

Maybe this will also help Obi and that unit

I’d love to think this way.

Yet the way Thibs coaches, the way he has used Quickley lately and the way he uses veterans tells me this is to use Rose as much as he wants.

Knicks playing best defense in league, overachieving with wins, and IQ is the surprise rookie this year playing 19 minutes a game.

Guess we got to complain about something.... that hasn’t even happened

BigDaddyG @ 2/7/2021 3:10 PM
Rookie wrote:
martin wrote:My thought is Rose is added to help IQ to learn the game.

Rivers is a secondary ball handler with IQ and just get guys involved.

Maybe this will also help Obi and that unit

I like this take


I'm looking at this like the Jeff Teague move in Minnesota. Hope I'm wrong. At best, this move is a 40 degree day.

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