Knicks · Knicks have 2 major needs (page 3)

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

wargames wrote:The answer is Gary Trent Jr.

He is 22
Is a 2-way SG with no major weaknesses
He’s a RFA and not a position of need for Portland to match a stupid offer

We can offer him the starting spot, pay him something comparable to Randle and slide him into the 2 spot and still have money to add other positions of need.

Quickley
Trent
RJ
Randle
Mitch

Quick and Trent might be able to provide enough outside shooting to make RJ and Randle feasible too.

Oh wow, yes to this type of player. Nice catch

What type of contract?

$15 to $17 mil? He already declined a four year, $54 mil extension off from Portland and he's going to have his fair share of suitors. He's represented by Klutch and he's also restricted, so the offer needs to be big enough to scare Portland off. I would say pass. He's a good shooter, but he really doesn't offer a lot in the way of playmaking and paint scoring.
I just compared his stats to Allen Crabbe when he was in Portland and they're pretty similar.

$13-15M per sounds about right to me with no increases.

I don't know enough about Trent but did he guard LeBron during the playoffs last year? And how was he?

I wouldn't worry about playmaking or paint scoring, those aren't the reasons you pay for a player like him. Shooting and defending.

Think of signing a guy like Trent, at a cost that speaks to his contract and no more, as a throw-in piece to trading for the likes of Beal and then it makes more sense?

Knicks are in the position to sign players to reasonable contracts and build from there IMHO

$13-$15 is acceptable, but he's looking for more than that. Plus, that's not enough to scare Portland. They already offered an extension close to that.

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

wargames wrote:The answer is Gary Trent Jr.

He is 22
Is a 2-way SG with no major weaknesses
He’s a RFA and not a position of need for Portland to match a stupid offer

We can offer him the starting spot, pay him something comparable to Randle and slide him into the 2 spot and still have money to add other positions of need.

Quickley
Trent
RJ
Randle
Mitch

Quick and Trent might be able to provide enough outside shooting to make RJ and Randle feasible too.

Oh wow, yes to this type of player. Nice catch

What type of contract?

$15 to $17 mil? He already declined a four year, $54 mil extension off from Portland and he's going to have his fair share of suitors. He's represented by Klutch and he's also restricted, so the offer needs to be big enough to scare Portland off. I would say pass. He's a good shooter, but he really doesn't offer a lot in the way of playmaking and paint scoring.
I just compared his stats to Allen Crabbe when he was in Portland and they're pretty similar.

$13-15M per sounds about right to me with no increases.

I don't know enough about Trent but did he guard LeBron during the playoffs last year? And how was he?

I wouldn't worry about playmaking or paint scoring, those aren't the reasons you pay for a player like him. Shooting and defending.

Think of signing a guy like Trent, at a cost that speaks to his contract and no more, as a throw-in piece to trading for the likes of Beal and then it makes more sense?

Knicks are in the position to sign players to reasonable contracts and build from there IMHO

$13-$15 is acceptable, but he's looking for more than that. Plus, that's not enough to scare Portland. They already offered an extension close to that.

WE need a star player not a role player
we have some nice pieces but we dont want to be ORLANDO 7-8 seed 1st round exit
I belive our only way to get him is by trade
maybe IQ is that man at PG but we need a star SG

To summarize, our bench is 15 deep.

We need chemistry adjustment and some high-quality, consistent players.

nadavshomron wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

wargames wrote:The answer is Gary Trent Jr.

He is 22
Is a 2-way SG with no major weaknesses
He’s a RFA and not a position of need for Portland to match a stupid offer

We can offer him the starting spot, pay him something comparable to Randle and slide him into the 2 spot and still have money to add other positions of need.

Quickley
Trent
RJ
Randle
Mitch

Quick and Trent might be able to provide enough outside shooting to make RJ and Randle feasible too.

Oh wow, yes to this type of player. Nice catch

What type of contract?

$15 to $17 mil? He already declined a four year, $54 mil extension off from Portland and he's going to have his fair share of suitors. He's represented by Klutch and he's also restricted, so the offer needs to be big enough to scare Portland off. I would say pass. He's a good shooter, but he really doesn't offer a lot in the way of playmaking and paint scoring.
I just compared his stats to Allen Crabbe when he was in Portland and they're pretty similar.

$13-15M per sounds about right to me with no increases.

I don't know enough about Trent but did he guard LeBron during the playoffs last year? And how was he?

I wouldn't worry about playmaking or paint scoring, those aren't the reasons you pay for a player like him. Shooting and defending.

Think of signing a guy like Trent, at a cost that speaks to his contract and no more, as a throw-in piece to trading for the likes of Beal and then it makes more sense?

Knicks are in the position to sign players to reasonable contracts and build from there IMHO

$13-$15 is acceptable, but he's looking for more than that. Plus, that's not enough to scare Portland. They already offered an extension close to that.

WE need a star player not a role player
we have some nice pieces but we dont want to be ORLANDO 7-8 seed 1st round exit
I belive our only way to get him is by trade
maybe IQ is that man at PG but we need a star SG

In lieu of not being able to sign a STAR player outright, it's OK to sign players to contracts that may be able to play way above their pay scale.

And then you trade those players for a star player.

Randle last year, nope. Randle this year, he could be added to a trade that would net you something better.

It's all about managing properly. Got to build up and sometimes that means signing role players who can help the team play better

martin wrote:

nadavshomron wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

wargames wrote:The answer is Gary Trent Jr.

He is 22
Is a 2-way SG with no major weaknesses
He’s a RFA and not a position of need for Portland to match a stupid offer

We can offer him the starting spot, pay him something comparable to Randle and slide him into the 2 spot and still have money to add other positions of need.

Quickley
Trent
RJ
Randle
Mitch

Quick and Trent might be able to provide enough outside shooting to make RJ and Randle feasible too.

Oh wow, yes to this type of player. Nice catch

What type of contract?

$15 to $17 mil? He already declined a four year, $54 mil extension off from Portland and he's going to have his fair share of suitors. He's represented by Klutch and he's also restricted, so the offer needs to be big enough to scare Portland off. I would say pass. He's a good shooter, but he really doesn't offer a lot in the way of playmaking and paint scoring.
I just compared his stats to Allen Crabbe when he was in Portland and they're pretty similar.

$13-15M per sounds about right to me with no increases.

I don't know enough about Trent but did he guard LeBron during the playoffs last year? And how was he?

I wouldn't worry about playmaking or paint scoring, those aren't the reasons you pay for a player like him. Shooting and defending.

Think of signing a guy like Trent, at a cost that speaks to his contract and no more, as a throw-in piece to trading for the likes of Beal and then it makes more sense?

Knicks are in the position to sign players to reasonable contracts and build from there IMHO

$13-$15 is acceptable, but he's looking for more than that. Plus, that's not enough to scare Portland. They already offered an extension close to that.

WE need a star player not a role player
we have some nice pieces but we dont want to be ORLANDO 7-8 seed 1st round exit
I belive our only way to get him is by trade
maybe IQ is that man at PG but we need a star SG

In lieu of not being able to sign a STAR player outright, it's OK to sign players to contracts that may be able to play way above their pay scale.

And then you trade those players for a star player.

Randle last year, nope. Randle this year, he could be added to a trade that would net you something better.

It's all about managing properly. Got to build up and sometimes that means signing role players who can help the team play better

Exactly, there aren’t any star players out there that won’t cost a haul of assets we really don’t have to give.

I am aware of the Allen Crabbe similarities to Trent but realistically what’s the difference between a Crabbe, a Joe Harris, or a Gary Trent. We have heavy use players. We need a more reliable 3 pt shooter to hopefully put Rivers on the bench in a sixth man role.

wargames wrote:

martin wrote:

nadavshomron wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

wargames wrote:The answer is Gary Trent Jr.

He is 22
Is a 2-way SG with no major weaknesses
He’s a RFA and not a position of need for Portland to match a stupid offer

We can offer him the starting spot, pay him something comparable to Randle and slide him into the 2 spot and still have money to add other positions of need.

Quickley
Trent
RJ
Randle
Mitch

Quick and Trent might be able to provide enough outside shooting to make RJ and Randle feasible too.

Oh wow, yes to this type of player. Nice catch

What type of contract?

$15 to $17 mil? He already declined a four year, $54 mil extension off from Portland and he's going to have his fair share of suitors. He's represented by Klutch and he's also restricted, so the offer needs to be big enough to scare Portland off. I would say pass. He's a good shooter, but he really doesn't offer a lot in the way of playmaking and paint scoring.
I just compared his stats to Allen Crabbe when he was in Portland and they're pretty similar.

$13-15M per sounds about right to me with no increases.

I don't know enough about Trent but did he guard LeBron during the playoffs last year? And how was he?

I wouldn't worry about playmaking or paint scoring, those aren't the reasons you pay for a player like him. Shooting and defending.

Think of signing a guy like Trent, at a cost that speaks to his contract and no more, as a throw-in piece to trading for the likes of Beal and then it makes more sense?

Knicks are in the position to sign players to reasonable contracts and build from there IMHO

$13-$15 is acceptable, but he's looking for more than that. Plus, that's not enough to scare Portland. They already offered an extension close to that.

WE need a star player not a role player
we have some nice pieces but we dont want to be ORLANDO 7-8 seed 1st round exit
I belive our only way to get him is by trade
maybe IQ is that man at PG but we need a star SG

In lieu of not being able to sign a STAR player outright, it's OK to sign players to contracts that may be able to play way above their pay scale.

And then you trade those players for a star player.

Randle last year, nope. Randle this year, he could be added to a trade that would net you something better.

It's all about managing properly. Got to build up and sometimes that means signing role players who can help the team play better

Exactly, there aren’t any star players out there that won’t cost a haul of assets we really don’t have to give.

I am aware of the Allen Crabbe similarities to Trent but realistically what’s the difference between a Crabbe, a Joe Harris, or a Gary Trent. We have heavy use players. We need a more reliable 3 pt shooter to hopefully put Rivers on the bench in a sixth man role.

I would be all over Trent. He’s a nice fit here. I understand the concern about his restricted free agent status and how hard it is to steal those guys away. My suggestion would be instead of going way overboard, use a draft pick to entice Portland via sign and trade out of fear of them losing him for nothing. But obviously the threat of an overpay would have to be real so easier said than done. If not Trent than I’m really fighting for Porter who is more easily attainable.

nadavshomron wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

wargames wrote:The answer is Gary Trent Jr.

He is 22
Is a 2-way SG with no major weaknesses
He’s a RFA and not a position of need for Portland to match a stupid offer

We can offer him the starting spot, pay him something comparable to Randle and slide him into the 2 spot and still have money to add other positions of need.

Quickley
Trent
RJ
Randle
Mitch

Quick and Trent might be able to provide enough outside shooting to make RJ and Randle feasible too.

Oh wow, yes to this type of player. Nice catch

What type of contract?

$15 to $17 mil? He already declined a four year, $54 mil extension off from Portland and he's going to have his fair share of suitors. He's represented by Klutch and he's also restricted, so the offer needs to be big enough to scare Portland off. I would say pass. He's a good shooter, but he really doesn't offer a lot in the way of playmaking and paint scoring.
I just compared his stats to Allen Crabbe when he was in Portland and they're pretty similar.

$13-15M per sounds about right to me with no increases.

I don't know enough about Trent but did he guard LeBron during the playoffs last year? And how was he?

I wouldn't worry about playmaking or paint scoring, those aren't the reasons you pay for a player like him. Shooting and defending.

Think of signing a guy like Trent, at a cost that speaks to his contract and no more, as a throw-in piece to trading for the likes of Beal and then it makes more sense?

Knicks are in the position to sign players to reasonable contracts and build from there IMHO

$13-$15 is acceptable, but he's looking for more than that. Plus, that's not enough to scare Portland. They already offered an extension close to that.

WE need a star player not a role player
we have some nice pieces but we dont want to be ORLANDO 7-8 seed 1st round exit
I belive our only way to get him is by trade
maybe IQ is that man at PG but we need a star SG

Yeah the key is that other wing position opposite of Barrett. LaVine is a possibility but otherwise I don’t know if that star wing is available right now. But that’s what we really need. Basically a better version of Burks.

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:

martin wrote:

nadavshomron wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

wargames wrote:The answer is Gary Trent Jr.

He is 22
Is a 2-way SG with no major weaknesses
He’s a RFA and not a position of need for Portland to match a stupid offer

We can offer him the starting spot, pay him something comparable to Randle and slide him into the 2 spot and still have money to add other positions of need.

Quickley
Trent
RJ
Randle
Mitch

Quick and Trent might be able to provide enough outside shooting to make RJ and Randle feasible too.

Oh wow, yes to this type of player. Nice catch

What type of contract?

$15 to $17 mil? He already declined a four year, $54 mil extension off from Portland and he's going to have his fair share of suitors. He's represented by Klutch and he's also restricted, so the offer needs to be big enough to scare Portland off. I would say pass. He's a good shooter, but he really doesn't offer a lot in the way of playmaking and paint scoring.
I just compared his stats to Allen Crabbe when he was in Portland and they're pretty similar.

$13-15M per sounds about right to me with no increases.

I don't know enough about Trent but did he guard LeBron during the playoffs last year? And how was he?

I wouldn't worry about playmaking or paint scoring, those aren't the reasons you pay for a player like him. Shooting and defending.

Think of signing a guy like Trent, at a cost that speaks to his contract and no more, as a throw-in piece to trading for the likes of Beal and then it makes more sense?

Knicks are in the position to sign players to reasonable contracts and build from there IMHO

$13-$15 is acceptable, but he's looking for more than that. Plus, that's not enough to scare Portland. They already offered an extension close to that.

WE need a star player not a role player
we have some nice pieces but we dont want to be ORLANDO 7-8 seed 1st round exit
I belive our only way to get him is by trade
maybe IQ is that man at PG but we need a star SG

In lieu of not being able to sign a STAR player outright, it's OK to sign players to contracts that may be able to play way above their pay scale.

And then you trade those players for a star player.

Randle last year, nope. Randle this year, he could be added to a trade that would net you something better.

It's all about managing properly. Got to build up and sometimes that means signing role players who can help the team play better

Exactly, there aren’t any star players out there that won’t cost a haul of assets we really don’t have to give.

I am aware of the Allen Crabbe similarities to Trent but realistically what’s the difference between a Crabbe, a Joe Harris, or a Gary Trent. We have heavy use players. We need a more reliable 3 pt shooter to hopefully put Rivers on the bench in a sixth man role.

I would be all over Trent. He’s a nice fit here. I understand the concern about his restricted free agent status and how hard it is to steal those guys away. My suggestion would be instead of going way overboard, use a draft pick to entice Portland via sign and trade out of fear of them losing him for nothing. But obviously the threat of an overpay would have to be real so easier said than done. If not Trent than I’m really fighting for Porter who is more easily attainable.

Don't know enough about both Trent and Otto Porter but 100%

So quarter of the season in it looks like we have our starting PG of the future in IQ. Which was one of the 2 major needs.

Now we still need more passing in the starting lineup. Can we get a SF who can really pass? What about Kyle Anderson? Wonderful defender, 7th best passing SF in the league, only Lebron is better at rebounds, 35.6%from 3 , 78 %from the line. 27 years old. Problem is he is having a breakout year while getting paid only 9 mil per year. Grizzlies might want to sell high tho.

ramtour420 wrote:Now we still need more passing in the starting lineup. Can we get a SF who can really pass? What about Kyle Anderson? Wonderful defender, 7th best passing SF in the league, only Lebron is better at rebounds, 35.6%from 3 , 78 %from the line. 27 years old. Problem is he is having a breakout year while getting paid only 9 mil per year. Grizzlies might want to sell high tho.

**cough, cough** Cade Cunningham and Jalen Johnson would both be great.... Zaire Williams too.

Is it possible that RJ sees time at the 2 and Obi 3? (With Quickly, Randle and Mitch).

Dupe wrote:Is it possible that RJ sees time at the 2 and Obi 3? (With Quickly, Randle and Mitch).

Not now. Obi can't really defend wings in iso. He's a one position guys now. Maybe two if you give him spot minutes at center.

Randle at this moment is that type of player with picks can land you a big fish. They wants starter or all star in return. At 26 with a controllable contract he is quite capable.
Which leads us to think “Then why trade him”?

At 6-7 RJ is not the dominant SF one would want. But then he is only 20. Durant is a rare one. Kawahi is 6-8 and took him a a few yeas to elevate his game from very good to the beast he is.
Giannis is not Lebron but paid like him. gotta be careful not to get starstruck and subsequently Starphuched by levering a roster or him. Stars win. Stars bring in revenue. As good as he is, its not a given he can influence his will enough to a finals.
One has to pay but he is not Lebron or Durant. Yet.

Nalod wrote:Randle at this moment is that type of player with picks can land you a big fish. They wants starter or all star in return. At 26 with a controllable contract he is quite capable.
Which leads us to think “Then why trade him”?

At 6-7 RJ is not the dominant SF one would want. But then he is only 20. Durant is a rare one. Kawahi is 6-8 and took him a a few yeas to elevate his game from very good to the beast he is.
Giannis is not Lebron but paid like him. gotta be careful not to get starstruck and subsequently Starphuched by levering a roster or him. Stars win. Stars bring in revenue. As good as he is, its not a given he can influence his will enough to a finals.
One has to pay but he is not Lebron or Durant. Yet.

Typically teams are trying to rebuild when dealing a top talent, and Randle doesn't fit the bill. Teams will want 2 out of 3 of Barrett, Quickley, and Toppin plus a handful of draft picks for a top talent. We can make a trade when that guy becomes available, but I don't think we want to given the asking price. I'll deal the picks, but I want to keep the young players. I see Quickley in the same mold as Tyler Herro. He's a guy that can be a top young player in a trade for a big fish, but again I wouldn't do it until it's for a top 5 player, which isn't happening.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Dupe wrote:Is it possible that RJ sees time at the 2 and Obi 3? (With Quickly, Randle and Mitch).

Not now. Obi can't really defend wings in iso. He's a one position guys now. Maybe two if you give him spot minutes at center.

Yeah putting Toppin at the 3 is a bad use of his talent. He's a guy that will need to see all of the backup PF minutes and play alongside Randle. Thibs will have to play Randle or Toppin at center for a couple of stretches here and there. Basically Toppin is going to be a 20 mpg guy at best for the foreseeable future.

ramtour420 wrote:Now we still need more passing in the starting lineup. Can we get a SF who can really pass? What about Kyle Anderson? Wonderful defender, 7th best passing SF in the league, only Lebron is better at rebounds, 35.6%from 3 , 78 %from the line. 27 years old. Problem is he is having a breakout year while getting paid only 9 mil per year. Grizzlies might want to sell high tho.

I think the passing improves when Quickley eventually replaces Payton because he stretches the defense out further which opens the floor, plus the ball sticks to Payton's hands and won't as much with Quickley. Quickley seem to make quicker decisions with the ball. Barrett and Randle will continue to improve as playmakers as well. Randle already has, and it seems like the next step in Barrett's development. I think Otto Porter is a nice fit for this team at SF. He's a classic 3&D guy and also a solid ball mover. He is a switchable defender and will make 2 threes per game on 40%. That is what we need in the lineup if we aren't talking about superstars.

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Randle at this moment is that type of player with picks can land you a big fish. They wants starter or all star in return. At 26 with a controllable contract he is quite capable.
Which leads us to think “Then why trade him”?

At 6-7 RJ is not the dominant SF one would want. But then he is only 20. Durant is a rare one. Kawahi is 6-8 and took him a a few yeas to elevate his game from very good to the beast he is.
Giannis is not Lebron but paid like him. gotta be careful not to get starstruck and subsequently Starphuched by levering a roster or him. Stars win. Stars bring in revenue. As good as he is, its not a given he can influence his will enough to a finals.
One has to pay but he is not Lebron or Durant. Yet.

Typically teams are trying to rebuild when dealing a top talent, and Randle doesn't fit the bill. Teams will want 2 out of 3 of Barrett, Quickley, and Toppin plus a handful of draft picks for a top talent. We can make a trade when that guy becomes available, but I don't think we want to given the asking price. I'll deal the picks, but I want to keep the young players. I see Quickley in the same mold as Tyler Herro. He's a guy that can be a top young player in a trade for a big fish, but again I wouldn't do it until it's for a top 5 player, which isn't happening.

It depends what we are trading for, for example Randle mixed in with taking on cap, and our picks equals something. It’s a strong package and there will be teams open to taking it. If Randle is the long term future I don’t see us doing any trades besides something that can get us a higher lottery draft. We have a lot of draft asset and a coach who I have little doubt will want to go fully into win now mode soon.

We can improve our depth. For example Quickly is being groomed to be a sixth man, so we need a starting PG and a starting Wing. Hopefully we hit on this draft but we also have cap space, and expiring contracts and good contracts on role players. Knicks are in a good position.

wargames wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Randle at this moment is that type of player with picks can land you a big fish. They wants starter or all star in return. At 26 with a controllable contract he is quite capable.
Which leads us to think “Then why trade him”?

At 6-7 RJ is not the dominant SF one would want. But then he is only 20. Durant is a rare one. Kawahi is 6-8 and took him a a few yeas to elevate his game from very good to the beast he is.
Giannis is not Lebron but paid like him. gotta be careful not to get starstruck and subsequently Starphuched by levering a roster or him. Stars win. Stars bring in revenue. As good as he is, its not a given he can influence his will enough to a finals.
One has to pay but he is not Lebron or Durant. Yet.

Typically teams are trying to rebuild when dealing a top talent, and Randle doesn't fit the bill. Teams will want 2 out of 3 of Barrett, Quickley, and Toppin plus a handful of draft picks for a top talent. We can make a trade when that guy becomes available, but I don't think we want to given the asking price. I'll deal the picks, but I want to keep the young players. I see Quickley in the same mold as Tyler Herro. He's a guy that can be a top young player in a trade for a big fish, but again I wouldn't do it until it's for a top 5 player, which isn't happening.

It depends what we are trading for, for example Randle mixed in with taking on cap, and our picks equals something. It’s a strong package and there will be teams open to taking it. If Randle is the long term future I don’t see us doing any trades besides something that can get us a higher lottery draft. We have a lot of draft asset and a coach who I have little doubt will want to go fully into win now mode soon.

We can improve our depth. For example Quickly is being groomed to be a sixth man, so we need a starting PG and a starting Wing. Hopefully we hit on this draft but we also have cap space, and expiring contracts and good contracts on role players. Knicks are in a good position.

What makes you think Quickley isn't being groomed as the starting PG? Knicks badly need shooting and offense in the line-up and Quickley offers those things. Playmaking is less important with the offense running successfully through Randle. Shooting and ball movement are the top priorities. Quickley/Barrett are the starting backcourt of the future.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Dupe wrote:Is it possible that RJ sees time at the 2 and Obi 3? (With Quickly, Randle and Mitch).

Not now. Obi can't really defend wings in iso. He's a one position guys now. Maybe two if you give him spot minutes at center.

Obj, as a stretch 5 could be a hidden gem. He has a mid range jumper and some defense. He needs to adjust to the speed of the game.