Knicks · DSJr is quietly emerging (page 2)

Lol! The premise behind this thread is hilarious. It is exactly how people got duped by DSJ in the first place, looking at box scores and making determinations based on that. DSJ had 12 inconsquenial points against us and that was impressive? A triple double in a blowout win with massive garbage time?

Do people forget DSJ had some good stat games when he first arrived here? Watch the games not the box scores. I'm happy he's in a position with no pressure playing meaningless games allowing him piling up stats.

joec32033 wrote:8 points and 4 assists is "emerging"?

Op is being sarcastic

i've watched him a couple time on league pass. I don't know if he'll be in the league next year

something is wrong. DSJ would not have ever been drafted if people were seeing this guy; they saw an explostive athlete and had dreams of westbrook.

not sure what's up with him but there's nothing. It could be as simple as opponents playing him to go right. or something happened to him injury wise

all that said, if he salvages a career i'd be happy for him

Dennis Smith = worse Marbury

Chandler wrote:i've watched him a couple time on league pass. I don't know if he'll be in the league next year

something is wrong. DSJ would not have ever been drafted if people were seeing this guy; they saw an explostive athlete and had dreams of westbrook.

not sure what's up with him but there's nothing. It could be as simple as opponents playing him to go right. or something happened to him injury wise

all that said, if he salvages a career i'd be happy for him

Exactly. I was watching the Pistons vs Raptors game on and off and I didn't even know he had a triple double until afterwards. That's how non-impactful his performance was. Some players are just like that, the box score doesn't tell the story, you have to actually watch him play. Then there was the game against the Kings (I think) when the Pistons were down late in a close game and Smith got pulled because Casey wanted more shooters on the floor since they needed to hit some threes. Smith did his typical bad body language/mild pout reaction thing to being taken out of the game. Of course, DSJ apologists will say it's a sign of his competitiveness.

Welpee wrote:

Chandler wrote:i've watched him a couple time on league pass. I don't know if he'll be in the league next year

something is wrong. DSJ would not have ever been drafted if people were seeing this guy; they saw an explostive athlete and had dreams of westbrook.

not sure what's up with him but there's nothing. It could be as simple as opponents playing him to go right. or something happened to him injury wise

all that said, if he salvages a career i'd be happy for him

Exactly. I was watching the Pistons vs Raptors game on and off and I didn't even know he had a triple double until afterwards. That's how non-impactful his performance was. Some players are just like that, the box score doesn't tell the story, you have to actually watch him play. Then there was the game against the Kings (I think) when the Pistons were down late in a close game and Smith got pulled because Casey wanted more shooters on the floor since they needed to hit some threes. Smith did his typical bad body language/mild pout reaction thing to being taken out of the game. Of course, DSJ apologists will say it's a sign of his competitiveness.

Well...I admit I wanted the knicks to draft dsj....instead of frank. But I was fooled by his espn highlights. He has the athleticism as most of the top 10 nba players. But his confidence when he was with us was bottom 10% and his pt guard IQ was low and appears to be low from what I've seen lately. But he's young and will improve thanks to Detroit who's giving him a mins.

I was right with mikal...instead of knox. That was a major fail...at a time when we needed a 3 and D player. We choose a Kentucky player undeveloped over the better all around mature player. I hope this Kentucky pipe line doesn't blind us from those mistakes again.

blkexec wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Chandler wrote:i've watched him a couple time on league pass. I don't know if he'll be in the league next year

something is wrong. DSJ would not have ever been drafted if people were seeing this guy; they saw an explostive athlete and had dreams of westbrook.

not sure what's up with him but there's nothing. It could be as simple as opponents playing him to go right. or something happened to him injury wise

all that said, if he salvages a career i'd be happy for him

Exactly. I was watching the Pistons vs Raptors game on and off and I didn't even know he had a triple double until afterwards. That's how non-impactful his performance was. Some players are just like that, the box score doesn't tell the story, you have to actually watch him play. Then there was the game against the Kings (I think) when the Pistons were down late in a close game and Smith got pulled because Casey wanted more shooters on the floor since they needed to hit some threes. Smith did his typical bad body language/mild pout reaction thing to being taken out of the game. Of course, DSJ apologists will say it's a sign of his competitiveness.

Well...I admit I wanted the knicks to draft dsj....instead of frank. But I was fooled by his espn highlights. He has the athleticism as most of the top 10 nba players. But his confidence when he was with us was bottom 10% and his pt guard IQ was low and appears to be low from what I've seen lately. But he's young and will improve thanks to Detroit who's giving him a mins.

I was right with mikal...instead of knox. That was a major fail...at a time when we needed a 3 and D player. We choose a Kentucky player undeveloped over the better all around mature player. I hope this Kentucky pipe line doesn't blind us from those mistakes again.

I have to scratch my head at that statement. How does a player with a track record of low bbiq improve by just getting minutes? DSJr has had a career of getting minutes and opportunities, from college onward when the same things were being said.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Chandler wrote:i've watched him a couple time on league pass. I don't know if he'll be in the league next year

something is wrong. DSJ would not have ever been drafted if people were seeing this guy; they saw an explostive athlete and had dreams of westbrook.

not sure what's up with him but there's nothing. It could be as simple as opponents playing him to go right. or something happened to him injury wise

all that said, if he salvages a career i'd be happy for him

Exactly. I was watching the Pistons vs Raptors game on and off and I didn't even know he had a triple double until afterwards. That's how non-impactful his performance was. Some players are just like that, the box score doesn't tell the story, you have to actually watch him play. Then there was the game against the Kings (I think) when the Pistons were down late in a close game and Smith got pulled because Casey wanted more shooters on the floor since they needed to hit some threes. Smith did his typical bad body language/mild pout reaction thing to being taken out of the game. Of course, DSJ apologists will say it's a sign of his competitiveness.

Well...I admit I wanted the knicks to draft dsj....instead of frank. But I was fooled by his espn highlights. He has the athleticism as most of the top 10 nba players. But his confidence when he was with us was bottom 10% and his pt guard IQ was low and appears to be low from what I've seen lately. But he's young and will improve thanks to Detroit who's giving him a mins.

I was right with mikal...instead of knox. That was a major fail...at a time when we needed a 3 and D player. We choose a Kentucky player undeveloped over the better all around mature player. I hope this Kentucky pipe line doesn't blind us from those mistakes again.

I have to scratch my head at that statement. How does a player with a track record of low bbiq improve by just getting minutes? DSJr has had a career of getting minutes and opportunities, from college onward when the same things were being said.

Yes, he could remain the same, and be out of the league in a year. But he could also see this as a second opportunity to redirect his career. And unless you get starter mins, against nba starters, you can not increase your IQ at nba game speed..even if it's the same information he's learning over and over....its in a different environment from a different voice. So im giving him the benefit of doubt that he will improve. When I say IQ, I'm just talking offensive and defensive awareness....as a lead guard. Or a scoring guard like drose.

I believe his experience in NY was a failure because either fiz and the coaching staff or himself...tried to force him into something his not. He's not a lead pass first guard, he's a scoring guard (like IQ but he scores at the rim) that plays downhill. When he plays like a PG, he disappears and you don't even know he's on the floor.

Hey, if King James says the Knicks were stupid (my word not his) to draft Ntilikina over DSJr, who are we to argue?

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Chandler wrote:i've watched him a couple time on league pass. I don't know if he'll be in the league next year

something is wrong. DSJ would not have ever been drafted if people were seeing this guy; they saw an explostive athlete and had dreams of westbrook.

not sure what's up with him but there's nothing. It could be as simple as opponents playing him to go right. or something happened to him injury wise

all that said, if he salvages a career i'd be happy for him

Exactly. I was watching the Pistons vs Raptors game on and off and I didn't even know he had a triple double until afterwards. That's how non-impactful his performance was. Some players are just like that, the box score doesn't tell the story, you have to actually watch him play. Then there was the game against the Kings (I think) when the Pistons were down late in a close game and Smith got pulled because Casey wanted more shooters on the floor since they needed to hit some threes. Smith did his typical bad body language/mild pout reaction thing to being taken out of the game. Of course, DSJ apologists will say it's a sign of his competitiveness.

Well...I admit I wanted the knicks to draft dsj....instead of frank. But I was fooled by his espn highlights. He has the athleticism as most of the top 10 nba players. But his confidence when he was with us was bottom 10% and his pt guard IQ was low and appears to be low from what I've seen lately. But he's young and will improve thanks to Detroit who's giving him a mins.

I was right with mikal...instead of knox. That was a major fail...at a time when we needed a 3 and D player. We choose a Kentucky player undeveloped over the better all around mature player. I hope this Kentucky pipe line doesn't blind us from those mistakes again.

I have to scratch my head at that statement. How does a player with a track record of low bbiq improve by just getting minutes? DSJr has had a career of getting minutes and opportunities, from college onward when the same things were being said.

Yes, he could remain the same, and be out of the league in a year. But he could also see this as a second opportunity to redirect his career. And unless you get starter mins, against nba starters, you will can not increase your IQ in nba game speed experience...even if it's the same information he's learning over and over....its in a different environment from a different voice. So im giving him the benefit of doubt that he will improve. When I say IQ, I'm just talking offensive and defensive awareness....as a lead guard. Or a scoring guard like drose.

I believe his experience in NY was a failure because either fiz and the coaching staff or himself...tried to force him into something his not. He's not a lead pass first guard, he's a scoring guard (like IQ but he scores at the rim) that plays downhill. When he plays like a PG, he disappears and you don't even know he's on the floor.

What? That doesn't come close to any smell test I can imagine. Help me understand - from a player perspective - one aspect of his game that you would say is a viable skill or quality that you see in his game that would allow a 3rd of 4th chance at giving him another opportunity?

I haven't watched DSJr closely enough over his career but can someone help me name like 1 thing he has improved in over a 4 year?

He has lost athleticism and that was his one thing to hang his hat on and he hasn't figured out how to get better

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Chandler wrote:i've watched him a couple time on league pass. I don't know if he'll be in the league next year

something is wrong. DSJ would not have ever been drafted if people were seeing this guy; they saw an explostive athlete and had dreams of westbrook.

not sure what's up with him but there's nothing. It could be as simple as opponents playing him to go right. or something happened to him injury wise

all that said, if he salvages a career i'd be happy for him

Exactly. I was watching the Pistons vs Raptors game on and off and I didn't even know he had a triple double until afterwards. That's how non-impactful his performance was. Some players are just like that, the box score doesn't tell the story, you have to actually watch him play. Then there was the game against the Kings (I think) when the Pistons were down late in a close game and Smith got pulled because Casey wanted more shooters on the floor since they needed to hit some threes. Smith did his typical bad body language/mild pout reaction thing to being taken out of the game. Of course, DSJ apologists will say it's a sign of his competitiveness.

Well...I admit I wanted the knicks to draft dsj....instead of frank. But I was fooled by his espn highlights. He has the athleticism as most of the top 10 nba players. But his confidence when he was with us was bottom 10% and his pt guard IQ was low and appears to be low from what I've seen lately. But he's young and will improve thanks to Detroit who's giving him a mins.

I was right with mikal...instead of knox. That was a major fail...at a time when we needed a 3 and D player. We choose a Kentucky player undeveloped over the better all around mature player. I hope this Kentucky pipe line doesn't blind us from those mistakes again.

I have to scratch my head at that statement. How does a player with a track record of low bbiq improve by just getting minutes? DSJr has had a career of getting minutes and opportunities, from college onward when the same things were being said.

Yes, he could remain the same, and be out of the league in a year. But he could also see this as a second opportunity to redirect his career. And unless you get starter mins, against nba starters, you will can not increase your IQ in nba game speed experience...even if it's the same information he's learning over and over....its in a different environment from a different voice. So im giving him the benefit of doubt that he will improve. When I say IQ, I'm just talking offensive and defensive awareness....as a lead guard. Or a scoring guard like drose.

I believe his experience in NY was a failure because either fiz and the coaching staff or himself...tried to force him into something his not. He's not a lead pass first guard, he's a scoring guard (like IQ but he scores at the rim) that plays downhill. When he plays like a PG, he disappears and you don't even know he's on the floor.

What? That doesn't come close to any smell test I can imagine. Help me understand - from a player perspective - one aspect of his game that you would say is a viable skill or quality that you see in his game that would allow a 3rd of 4th chance at giving him another opportunity?

I haven't watched DSJr closely enough over his career but can someone help me name like 1 thing he has improved in over a 4 year?

He has lost athleticism and that was his one thing to hang his hat on and he hasn't figured out how to get better

I would ask the person that created this thread. But dsj has regressed. I believe that's where we agree. What makes someone give him a 4th or 5th or nth chance is age and availability, along with an existing scouting report and college experience. Dsj was a HS star and high flyer in college, with a resume that got him drafted in the top 15 of the 1st round I believe.

I know what your saying and I agree. He hasn't shown much. But if you trying to tank, it's a win win situation for Detroit. So thats reason #2. Teams trying to tank while giving starter mins to someone....searching for lightning in a bottle. Like buying penny stocks. Hes a low risk, low cost, high potential due to age and bad management in NY caused him to lose confidence. If you are sold on that narrative, thats reason #3.

Philc1 wrote:Dennis Smith = worse Marbury

DSjr couldn't carry Marbury's jock.
Marbury averaged 20 points and 8 assists over 13 years in the NBA.
In what universe is DSjr like Marbury?

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Chandler wrote:i've watched him a couple time on league pass. I don't know if he'll be in the league next year

something is wrong. DSJ would not have ever been drafted if people were seeing this guy; they saw an explostive athlete and had dreams of westbrook.

not sure what's up with him but there's nothing. It could be as simple as opponents playing him to go right. or something happened to him injury wise

all that said, if he salvages a career i'd be happy for him

Exactly. I was watching the Pistons vs Raptors game on and off and I didn't even know he had a triple double until afterwards. That's how non-impactful his performance was. Some players are just like that, the box score doesn't tell the story, you have to actually watch him play. Then there was the game against the Kings (I think) when the Pistons were down late in a close game and Smith got pulled because Casey wanted more shooters on the floor since they needed to hit some threes. Smith did his typical bad body language/mild pout reaction thing to being taken out of the game. Of course, DSJ apologists will say it's a sign of his competitiveness.

Well...I admit I wanted the knicks to draft dsj....instead of frank. But I was fooled by his espn highlights. He has the athleticism as most of the top 10 nba players. But his confidence when he was with us was bottom 10% and his pt guard IQ was low and appears to be low from what I've seen lately. But he's young and will improve thanks to Detroit who's giving him a mins.

I was right with mikal...instead of knox. That was a major fail...at a time when we needed a 3 and D player. We choose a Kentucky player undeveloped over the better all around mature player. I hope this Kentucky pipe line doesn't blind us from those mistakes again.

I have to scratch my head at that statement. How does a player with a track record of low bbiq improve by just getting minutes? DSJr has had a career of getting minutes and opportunities, from college onward when the same things were being said.

Yes, he could remain the same, and be out of the league in a year. But he could also see this as a second opportunity to redirect his career. And unless you get starter mins, against nba starters, you will can not increase your IQ in nba game speed experience...even if it's the same information he's learning over and over....its in a different environment from a different voice. So im giving him the benefit of doubt that he will improve. When I say IQ, I'm just talking offensive and defensive awareness....as a lead guard. Or a scoring guard like drose.

I believe his experience in NY was a failure because either fiz and the coaching staff or himself...tried to force him into something his not. He's not a lead pass first guard, he's a scoring guard (like IQ but he scores at the rim) that plays downhill. When he plays like a PG, he disappears and you don't even know he's on the floor.

What? That doesn't come close to any smell test I can imagine. Help me understand - from a player perspective - one aspect of his game that you would say is a viable skill or quality that you see in his game that would allow a 3rd of 4th chance at giving him another opportunity?

I haven't watched DSJr closely enough over his career but can someone help me name like 1 thing he has improved in over a 4 year?

He has lost athleticism and that was his one thing to hang his hat on and he hasn't figured out how to get better

I would ask the person that created this thread. But dsj has regressed. I believe that's where we agree. What makes someone give him a 4th or 5th or nth chance is age and availability, along with an existing scouting report and college experience. Dsj was a HS star and high flyer in college, with a resume that got him drafted in the top 15 of the 1st round I believe.

I know what your saying and I agree. He hasn't shown much. But if you trying to tank, it's a win win situation for Detroit. So thats reason #2. Teams trying to tank while giving starter mins to someone....searching for lightning in a bottle. Like buying penny stocks. Hes a low risk, low cost, high potential due to age and bad management in NY caused him to lose confidence. If you are sold on that narrative, thats reason #3.

Yeah, Detroit had nothing to lose and picked up a 2nd round pick for their troubles. Just like I felt about Mudiay (and was dead wrong) teams will play the Chauncey Billups card, a player who bounced around before he landed on the right team and found his game. I just don't see DSJ having a similar mental makeup or game to do what Billups did. DSJ is a star in his own mind and plays like one without having the game to match his opinion of himself. There's more to being a star than isolated highlight reel plays.

blkexec wrote:I believe his experience in NY was a failure because either fiz and the coaching staff or himself...tried to force him into something his not. He's not a lead pass first guard, he's a scoring guard (like IQ but he scores at the rim) that plays downhill. When he plays like a PG, he disappears and you don't even know he's on the floor.

However, he can't play off the ball. He REALLY disappears when the ball isn't in his hands. At his size with no outside shot, what position do you realistically expect him to play to be effective and (more importantly) help a team win? He doesn't have the heart or drive to be an Iverson clone, which is about the only comp who had success I can think of.

Welpee wrote:

blkexec wrote:I believe his experience in NY was a failure because either fiz and the coaching staff or himself...tried to force him into something his not. He's not a lead pass first guard, he's a scoring guard (like IQ but he scores at the rim) that plays downhill. When he plays like a PG, he disappears and you don't even know he's on the floor.

However, he can't play off the ball. He REALLY disappears when the ball isn't in his hands. At his size with no outside shot, what position do you realistically expect him to play to be effective and (more importantly) help a team win? He doesn't have the heart or drive to be an Iverson clone, which is about the only comp who had success I can think of.

To be sure: DSJr had the ideal situation in Dallas with Luca and balked, kicking and screaming, to all ends

Panos wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Dennis Smith = worse Marbury

DSjr couldn't carry Marbury's jock.
Marbury averaged 20 points and 8 assists over 13 years in the NBA.
In what universe is DSjr like Marbury?

In the same universe where a guy who couldn't even qualify as a bench project here, who's now getting mediocre numbers on a cellar-dwelling team that's in the middle of a franchise excavation - buy one/get two free firesale, gets his own thread because truly knowledgeable Knick fans have to be miserable about everything, all the time.

I have to look back into the archives and see if we really missed out on Jerome James or Eddy Curry, too.

Eddy Curry = worse Bill Russell

Panos wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Dennis Smith = worse Marbury

DSjr couldn't carry Marbury's jock.
Marbury averaged 20 points and 8 assists over 13 years in the NBA.
In what universe is DSjr like Marbury?

Maybe he meant Smith = worse Marbury as in present day Marbury. 45 year old marbury. That's probably accurate.

BigDaddyG wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:Is this thread about DSJ or Mudiay?

You mean this whole time, they were two different people?

ahhh.... Helllllloooooo.. can we circle back to this? They are the same guy right?

martin wrote:

Welpee wrote:

blkexec wrote:I believe his experience in NY was a failure because either fiz and the coaching staff or himself...tried to force him into something his not. He's not a lead pass first guard, he's a scoring guard (like IQ but he scores at the rim) that plays downhill. When he plays like a PG, he disappears and you don't even know he's on the floor.

However, he can't play off the ball. He REALLY disappears when the ball isn't in his hands. At his size with no outside shot, what position do you realistically expect him to play to be effective and (more importantly) help a team win? He doesn't have the heart or drive to be an Iverson clone, which is about the only comp who had success I can think of.

To be sure: DSJr had the ideal situation in Dallas with Luca and balked, kicking and screaming, to all ends

You really think that was an ideal situation for him? The ball was going to be in Luca's hands from day one. DSJ can't play off the ball.

jrodmc wrote:

In the same universe where a guy who couldn't even qualify as a bench project here, who's now getting mediocre numbers on a cellar-dwelling team that's in the middle of a franchise excavation - buy one/get two free firesale, gets his own thread because truly knowledgeable Knick fans have to be miserable about everything, all the time.

Misery is strangely addictive. I am getting a bit of a withdrawal syndrome right now.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

In the same universe where a guy who couldn't even qualify as a bench project here, who's now getting mediocre numbers on a cellar-dwelling team that's in the middle of a franchise excavation - buy one/get two free firesale, gets his own thread because truly knowledgeable Knick fans have to be miserable about everything, all the time.

Misery is strangely addictive. I am getting a bit of a withdrawal syndrome right now.

Try the KP's hurt again thread. It's almost like a methadone clinic.