Knicks · Knicks are close to being a top team (page 2)

We are that 1 big piece away from being really good. Randle has become a star and Barrett and Quickley look like up and coming major pieces. The role players of Mitch, Noel, Bullock, Burks, and Rose all fit their roles perfectly. Adding Ball would make a difference, not sure if he's the big piece, but he's a piece. But this team is moving in the right direction and has a lot of keepers.

fishmike wrote:we are not close to being a top team.

However its great to see some simple practices paying off.

Selling when you are supposed to: Thanks to that and the extra picks we have Mitch and IQ.
Drafting and being patient. RJ is really showing high ceiling promise.
Staying flexible. Signing safe value guys to short deals has kept the roster super flexible
Coaching matters. Its not just Thibs, Its Thibs + whole staff being on same page as FO. You can see real synergy and that is critical...

Plenty of time to phuck this up, but if we just stay the course, be smart with the money and keep drafting BPAs we are on our way to having a squad. I still say your best bet is the Detroit model where you have 6-7 borderline all stars who are 2-way high IQ players. You can win that way.

"We are not a "top" team for two reasons" said the Wizard of Oz.

"First, you need playoff wins!

And then, you need player recognition which comes along with playoff wins.

The only thing that matters today is making the playoffs" with a hint of irony.

-------------------------------

IMO, this is the wrong question. The real question is are we close to being a dangerous playoff team?

I think the answer to that question you have to be open to the idea that this year matters enough to harden the roster in the next day or so.

Let's start with the little things.

Redick is low hanging fruit.

Rivers is likely to be bought out and one name being floated to replace him is John Henson who who likely just be a matter of signing him to 10 day contracts if not for the season. Obie isn't going to find himself this year so this might be a smart move.

It also seems like the Knicks are playing with fire if they don't make a *serious* effort to trade for either Lonzo or Brogdon. Someone else will and it will be a case of another lost opportunity to put this chronic problem to an end.

Lonzo will require parting with a pick and a body or two - overpay if we must.

Ditto for Brogdon. Negotiate the best deal for us of the two.

If those tweaks can take us deep into the playoffs then the "top team" profile will resolve itself.

fwk00 wrote:

fishmike wrote:we are not close to being a top team.

However its great to see some simple practices paying off.

Selling when you are supposed to: Thanks to that and the extra picks we have Mitch and IQ.
Drafting and being patient. RJ is really showing high ceiling promise.
Staying flexible. Signing safe value guys to short deals has kept the roster super flexible
Coaching matters. Its not just Thibs, Its Thibs + whole staff being on same page as FO. You can see real synergy and that is critical...

Plenty of time to phuck this up, but if we just stay the course, be smart with the money and keep drafting BPAs we are on our way to having a squad. I still say your best bet is the Detroit model where you have 6-7 borderline all stars who are 2-way high IQ players. You can win that way.

"We are not a "top" team for two reasons" said the Wizard of Oz.

"First, you need playoff wins!

And then, you need player recognition which comes along with playoff wins.

The only thing that matters today is making the playoffs" with a hint of irony.

-------------------------------

IMO, this is the wrong question. The real question is are we close to being a dangerous playoff team?

I think the answer to that question you have to be open to the idea that this year matters enough to harden the roster in the next day or so.

Let's start with the little things.

Redick is low hanging fruit.

Rivers is likely to be bought out and one name being floated to replace him is John Henson who who likely just be a matter of signing him to 10 day contracts if not for the season. Obie isn't going to find himself this year so this might be a smart move.

It also seems like the Knicks are playing with fire if they don't make a *serious* effort to trade for either Lonzo or Brogdon. Someone else will and it will be a case of another lost opportunity to put this chronic problem to an end.

Lonzo will require parting with a pick and a body or two - overpay if we must.

Ditto for Brogdon. Negotiate the best deal for us of the two.

If those tweaks can take us deep into the playoffs then the "top team" profile will resolve itself.

I agree with you in Brogdan's. I can say, without a doubt, his overall skill set can push the team to another level. And he's locked in for two more years, with his deal ending at age 30.. The only real concern is his durability. Lonzo is still a question mark and it's unclear how much added value he gives the team. I would not consider him a "must."

fwk00 wrote:

fishmike wrote:we are not close to being a top team.

However its great to see some simple practices paying off.

Selling when you are supposed to: Thanks to that and the extra picks we have Mitch and IQ.
Drafting and being patient. RJ is really showing high ceiling promise.
Staying flexible. Signing safe value guys to short deals has kept the roster super flexible
Coaching matters. Its not just Thibs, Its Thibs + whole staff being on same page as FO. You can see real synergy and that is critical...

Plenty of time to phuck this up, but if we just stay the course, be smart with the money and keep drafting BPAs we are on our way to having a squad. I still say your best bet is the Detroit model where you have 6-7 borderline all stars who are 2-way high IQ players. You can win that way.

"We are not a "top" team for two reasons" said the Wizard of Oz.

"First, you need playoff wins!

And then, you need player recognition which comes along with playoff wins.

The only thing that matters today is making the playoffs" with a hint of irony.

-------------------------------

IMO, this is the wrong question. The real question is are we close to being a dangerous playoff team?

I think the answer to that question you have to be open to the idea that this year matters enough to harden the roster in the next day or so.

Let's start with the little things.

Redick is low hanging fruit.

Rivers is likely to be bought out and one name being floated to replace him is John Henson who who likely just be a matter of signing him to 10 day contracts if not for the season. Obie isn't going to find himself this year so this might be a smart move.

It also seems like the Knicks are playing with fire if they don't make a *serious* effort to trade for either Lonzo or Brogdon. Someone else will and it will be a case of another lost opportunity to put this chronic problem to an end.

Lonzo will require parting with a pick and a body or two - overpay if we must.

Ditto for Brogdon. Negotiate the best deal for us of the two.

If those tweaks can take us deep into the playoffs then the "top team" profile will resolve itself.

top teams in the East are Phili/BK/Mil. Bottom line is if both teams are healthy the Knicks are getting smoked in any 7 game series vs. those teams. Maybe we win a game, but we simply cant hang with those teams.

BigDaddyG wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

fishmike wrote:we are not close to being a top team.

However its great to see some simple practices paying off.

Selling when you are supposed to: Thanks to that and the extra picks we have Mitch and IQ.
Drafting and being patient. RJ is really showing high ceiling promise.
Staying flexible. Signing safe value guys to short deals has kept the roster super flexible
Coaching matters. Its not just Thibs, Its Thibs + whole staff being on same page as FO. You can see real synergy and that is critical...

Plenty of time to phuck this up, but if we just stay the course, be smart with the money and keep drafting BPAs we are on our way to having a squad. I still say your best bet is the Detroit model where you have 6-7 borderline all stars who are 2-way high IQ players. You can win that way.

"We are not a "top" team for two reasons" said the Wizard of Oz.

"First, you need playoff wins!

And then, you need player recognition which comes along with playoff wins.

The only thing that matters today is making the playoffs" with a hint of irony.

-------------------------------

IMO, this is the wrong question. The real question is are we close to being a dangerous playoff team?

I think the answer to that question you have to be open to the idea that this year matters enough to harden the roster in the next day or so.

Let's start with the little things.

Redick is low hanging fruit.

Rivers is likely to be bought out and one name being floated to replace him is John Henson who who likely just be a matter of signing him to 10 day contracts if not for the season. Obie isn't going to find himself this year so this might be a smart move.

It also seems like the Knicks are playing with fire if they don't make a *serious* effort to trade for either Lonzo or Brogdon. Someone else will and it will be a case of another lost opportunity to put this chronic problem to an end.

Lonzo will require parting with a pick and a body or two - overpay if we must.

Ditto for Brogdon. Negotiate the best deal for us of the two.

If those tweaks can take us deep into the playoffs then the "top team" profile will resolve itself.

I agree with you in Brogdan's. I can say, without a doubt, his overall skill set can push the team to another level. And he's locked in for two more years, with his deal ending at age 30.. The only real concern is his durability. Lonzo is still a question mark and it's unclear how much added value he gives the team. I would not consider him a "must."

Well, I'm writing strictly from the point of view that *this season* has a positive vibe and trajectory.

I'm quite aware that many fans advocate just playing it out as is. The potential problem is that maybe this is as good as it gets in coming years. Any number of easily imaginable basketball disasters have befallen the Knicks in the past and could easily rear themselves again.

Sooo, do we take advantage of the wind at our back and make a run or be satisfied with an entertaining, likely short-lived, virtuous satisfaction of falling short of anything competitively significant.

IDEALLY, go out and get Brogdon and Powell and still maintaining a footprint in coming drafts. but there are more than one combination like this that could be transcendental in terms of competitiveness.

I agree! Perhaps we need growth more than new players to make it there. Mitch gets occasional lobs and trash cleanup. I believe that if we ran more plays for him he would perform like a max player. Coupled with the growth from RJ and Randall and we have a budding big 3.

You really feel the difference with Rose on the court. A young Derrick Rose would be awesome. Could Quickly be that I don’t know but I have enjoyed the play of both this season.

We often talk here about the need for outside shooting. But this year we are getting it and at times it’s a strength. The need to improve from outside is much less dire now.

Finally, Burks and Bullock have been excellent complementary pieces (maybe even more so).

Dupe wrote:I agree! Perhaps we need growth more than new players to make it there. Mitch gets occasional lobs and trash cleanup. I believe that if we ran more plays for him he would perform like a max player. Coupled with the growth from RJ and Randall and we have a budding big 3.

You really feel the difference with Rose on the court. A young Derrick Rose would be awesome. Could Quickly be that I don’t know but I have enjoyed the play of both this season.

We often talk here about the need for outside shooting. But this year we are getting it and at times it’s a strength. The need to improve from outside is much less dire now.

Finally, Burks and Bullock have been excellent complementary pieces (maybe even more so).

Over the past month especially I've really grown to appreciate both of them.

It depends on what we mean by “top team” for me. A top team for me is a team ready for title contention but to get to that stage, we need:

1) A proper PG
2) A “superstar” level creator, preferably in the backcourt
3) RJ to reach final form( All star level production)
4) A more egalitarian offense. Teams that reach the finals these days know how to move the ball well.

It’s possible that all these can be resolved quickly, especially since 1,2,4 can be achieved with the addition of 1 player and more chemistry, but I’m in no rush. Teams don’t go from bottom feeders to champions in just one season.

As other posters have mentioned, we arent there yet. Not if Randle has to play as many minutes as he does. We either need another all-star threat. Or we need an upgrade at PG to maximize the talent we have. Payton is a good role player. Id bring him back next season, off the bench, before Frank. Both play solid D, but Payton is a more reliable scorer. Enough of a sample size to determine that.

Dont know if anyone remembers the shot of D. Rose on the bench last game. He looked exhausted. Went through it last year. Hope Rose gets his energy back. Was hoping he was out as a precaution, wasnt sick. New territory for the league, hope they make sure Rose can handle the pace. Test his lung capacity.

Dont know how they expect Toppin to figure things out, if they dont run anything for him. Thibs said its a mostly "read and react" league these days. Doesnt mean Obi cant get some help in getting into a rhythm.

We have the makings of a team that no high seed will want to face in the playoffs. If we stay relatively healthy. Rather be the 8th seed with most of the roster available. Than a burnt out higher seed. Once its clesr we'te in the playoffs (confident we will be) hope the starters get a slight break on PT. Not trying to win the regular season crown.

fishmike wrote:we are not close to being a top team.

However its great to see some simple practices paying off.

Selling when you are supposed to: Thanks to that and the extra picks we have Mitch and IQ.
Drafting and being patient. RJ is really showing high ceiling promise.
Staying flexible. Signing safe value guys to short deals has kept the roster super flexible
Coaching matters. Its not just Thibs, Its Thibs + whole staff being on same page as FO. You can see real synergy and that is critical...

Plenty of time to phuck this up, but if we just stay the course, be smart with the money and keep drafting BPAs we are on our way to having a squad. I still say your best bet is the Detroit model where you have 6-7 borderline all stars who are 2-way high IQ players. You can win that way.

I like the Detroit model idea as well.

TPercy wrote:

fishmike wrote:we are not close to being a top team.

However its great to see some simple practices paying off.

Selling when you are supposed to: Thanks to that and the extra picks we have Mitch and IQ.
Drafting and being patient. RJ is really showing high ceiling promise.
Staying flexible. Signing safe value guys to short deals has kept the roster super flexible
Coaching matters. Its not just Thibs, Its Thibs + whole staff being on same page as FO. You can see real synergy and that is critical...

Plenty of time to phuck this up, but if we just stay the course, be smart with the money and keep drafting BPAs we are on our way to having a squad. I still say your best bet is the Detroit model where you have 6-7 borderline all stars who are 2-way high IQ players. You can win that way.

I like the Detroit model idea as well.

and unlike other teams we have the payroll to keep them together (assuming the core is competing)

BigDaddyG wrote:<snip>

I agree with you in Brogdan's. I can say, without a doubt, his overall skill set can push the team to another level. And he's locked in for two more years, with his deal ending at age 30.. The only real concern is his durability. Lonzo is still a question mark and it's unclear how much added value he gives the team. I would not consider him a "must."

Brogdon is exactly the type of player that Milwaukee needs this year - a no nonsense, non-ball hogging guy that just does his job: makes the opportunistic baskets and hits his 3's without dominating the ball. He's a useful piece for any team. They miss him this year.

Lonzo would make the Knicks better. He does pretty much everything Payton does but better. Not sure if he's a star on most nights, but you ideally want a top 20 PG on your roster. (not sure if either Rose or Payton are top-30 legit starters, or if they're most effective as platoon players that can overcome lack of ability by giving max effort/motor in their limited minutes.

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:

fishmike wrote:we are not close to being a top team.

However its great to see some simple practices paying off.

Selling when you are supposed to: Thanks to that and the extra picks we have Mitch and IQ.
Drafting and being patient. RJ is really showing high ceiling promise.
Staying flexible. Signing safe value guys to short deals has kept the roster super flexible
Coaching matters. Its not just Thibs, Its Thibs + whole staff being on same page as FO. You can see real synergy and that is critical...

Plenty of time to phuck this up, but if we just stay the course, be smart with the money and keep drafting BPAs we are on our way to having a squad. I still say your best bet is the Detroit model where you have 6-7 borderline all stars who are 2-way high IQ players. You can win that way.

I like the Detroit model idea as well.

and unlike other teams we have the payroll to keep them together (assuming the core is competing)

You make an excellent point. I get frustrated at fans who think there's only one way to build a team and every teams needs to try and be built like the Golden State Warriors 2.0.

Depends on what Briggs means by "being close to a top team". In Simple terms think of the NBA East as divided into one of three tiers - a top 5, a middle 5 and a bottom 5. The Knicks are firmly entrenched in the middle tier. It could be argued and I would tend to agree that the Knicks are the best of the middle tier teams This would put them in striking distance of the top 5 which would make Briggs assertion correct. However, in reality, the knicks IMHO are not that close to the top teams. They can be competitive with them but in a short seven game playoff series I just can't see them beating any of the top 5. Again just my opinion.

BRIGGS wrote:Simple as that

Top what? .500 teams? If you look at Brooklyn, we are long way from winning the East. We need Two top superstars to attract top level buy-outs and high level players willing to take lower salaries to make a run. The new NBA is for super teams only. Smh

I would say we are a competitive team. Which is a step up from the laughing stock we have been.

We are competitive now. Close to being a good team

fishmike wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

fishmike wrote:we are not close to being a top team.

However its great to see some simple practices paying off.

Selling when you are supposed to: Thanks to that and the extra picks we have Mitch and IQ.
Drafting and being patient. RJ is really showing high ceiling promise.
Staying flexible. Signing safe value guys to short deals has kept the roster super flexible
Coaching matters. Its not just Thibs, Its Thibs + whole staff being on same page as FO. You can see real synergy and that is critical...

Plenty of time to phuck this up, but if we just stay the course, be smart with the money and keep drafting BPAs we are on our way to having a squad. I still say your best bet is the Detroit model where you have 6-7 borderline all stars who are 2-way high IQ players. You can win that way.

"We are not a "top" team for two reasons" said the Wizard of Oz.

"First, you need playoff wins!

And then, you need player recognition which comes along with playoff wins.

The only thing that matters today is making the playoffs" with a hint of irony.

-------------------------------

IMO, this is the wrong question. The real question is are we close to being a dangerous playoff team?

I think the answer to that question you have to be open to the idea that this year matters enough to harden the roster in the next day or so.

Let's start with the little things.

Redick is low hanging fruit.

Rivers is likely to be bought out and one name being floated to replace him is John Henson who who likely just be a matter of signing him to 10 day contracts if not for the season. Obie isn't going to find himself this year so this might be a smart move.

It also seems like the Knicks are playing with fire if they don't make a *serious* effort to trade for either Lonzo or Brogdon. Someone else will and it will be a case of another lost opportunity to put this chronic problem to an end.

Lonzo will require parting with a pick and a body or two - overpay if we must.

Ditto for Brogdon. Negotiate the best deal for us of the two.

If those tweaks can take us deep into the playoffs then the "top team" profile will resolve itself.

top teams in the East are Phili/BK/Mil. Bottom line is if both teams are healthy the Knicks are getting smoked in any 7 game series vs. those teams. Maybe we win a game, but we simply cant hang with those teams.

Just gotta do it the old fashioned way and continue to try to draft well and develop home grown talent

Philc1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

fishmike wrote:we are not close to being a top team.

However its great to see some simple practices paying off.

Selling when you are supposed to: Thanks to that and the extra picks we have Mitch and IQ.
Drafting and being patient. RJ is really showing high ceiling promise.
Staying flexible. Signing safe value guys to short deals has kept the roster super flexible
Coaching matters. Its not just Thibs, Its Thibs + whole staff being on same page as FO. You can see real synergy and that is critical...

Plenty of time to phuck this up, but if we just stay the course, be smart with the money and keep drafting BPAs we are on our way to having a squad. I still say your best bet is the Detroit model where you have 6-7 borderline all stars who are 2-way high IQ players. You can win that way.

"We are not a "top" team for two reasons" said the Wizard of Oz.

"First, you need playoff wins!

And then, you need player recognition which comes along with playoff wins.

The only thing that matters today is making the playoffs" with a hint of irony.

-------------------------------

IMO, this is the wrong question. The real question is are we close to being a dangerous playoff team?

I think the answer to that question you have to be open to the idea that this year matters enough to harden the roster in the next day or so.

Let's start with the little things.

Redick is low hanging fruit.

Rivers is likely to be bought out and one name being floated to replace him is John Henson who who likely just be a matter of signing him to 10 day contracts if not for the season. Obie isn't going to find himself this year so this might be a smart move.

It also seems like the Knicks are playing with fire if they don't make a *serious* effort to trade for either Lonzo or Brogdon. Someone else will and it will be a case of another lost opportunity to put this chronic problem to an end.

Lonzo will require parting with a pick and a body or two - overpay if we must.

Ditto for Brogdon. Negotiate the best deal for us of the two.

If those tweaks can take us deep into the playoffs then the "top team" profile will resolve itself.

top teams in the East are Phili/BK/Mil. Bottom line is if both teams are healthy the Knicks are getting smoked in any 7 game series vs. those teams. Maybe we win a game, but we simply cant hang with those teams.

Just gotta do it the old fashioned way and continue to try to draft well and develop home grown talent

Yeah, just like we did with Randle and Noel and Burks and Bullock and...

"Cause the good ole days weren't
Always good"

Philc1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

fishmike wrote:we are not close to being a top team.

However its great to see some simple practices paying off.

Selling when you are supposed to: Thanks to that and the extra picks we have Mitch and IQ.
Drafting and being patient. RJ is really showing high ceiling promise.
Staying flexible. Signing safe value guys to short deals has kept the roster super flexible
Coaching matters. Its not just Thibs, Its Thibs + whole staff being on same page as FO. You can see real synergy and that is critical...

Plenty of time to phuck this up, but if we just stay the course, be smart with the money and keep drafting BPAs we are on our way to having a squad. I still say your best bet is the Detroit model where you have 6-7 borderline all stars who are 2-way high IQ players. You can win that way.

"We are not a "top" team for two reasons" said the Wizard of Oz.

"First, you need playoff wins!

And then, you need player recognition which comes along with playoff wins.

The only thing that matters today is making the playoffs" with a hint of irony.

-------------------------------

IMO, this is the wrong question. The real question is are we close to being a dangerous playoff team?

I think the answer to that question you have to be open to the idea that this year matters enough to harden the roster in the next day or so.

Let's start with the little things.

Redick is low hanging fruit.

Rivers is likely to be bought out and one name being floated to replace him is John Henson who who likely just be a matter of signing him to 10 day contracts if not for the season. Obie isn't going to find himself this year so this might be a smart move.

It also seems like the Knicks are playing with fire if they don't make a *serious* effort to trade for either Lonzo or Brogdon. Someone else will and it will be a case of another lost opportunity to put this chronic problem to an end.

Lonzo will require parting with a pick and a body or two - overpay if we must.

Ditto for Brogdon. Negotiate the best deal for us of the two.

If those tweaks can take us deep into the playoffs then the "top team" profile will resolve itself.

top teams in the East are Phili/BK/Mil. Bottom line is if both teams are healthy the Knicks are getting smoked in any 7 game series vs. those teams. Maybe we win a game, but we simply cant hang with those teams.

Just gotta do it the old fashioned way and continue to try to draft well and develop home grown talent

The old fashion way doesn't work anymore , and yesterdays flurry of trades provse just that.

It's like saying we can still win games consistently by playing the triangle

Kids don't stay in college anymore so most come out needing 3 to 4 yrs to become a real NBA player

BRIGGS wrote:
Knicks are close to being a top team

Simple as that

That simple you say?...

BRIGGS wrote:
Scary bad.

What else to say?

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...