Knicks · Free agency can't come soon enough, Lonzo Ball is the answer (page 6)

I'm good if the Knicks pick up Ball. It'd be like getting a #2 overall draft pick after he's done with growing pains. He's sooooo much better than earlier in his career - his shooting form looks fluid and natural - he changes pace and in general looks good out there. (Granted, the below highlights are from one of the best games of his career)

Does 14+ppg/6apg/4rpg/42 fg%/38 3p%/75 ft%/1.5spg sound like max material? He may not be "worth" that now, but you figure in order to get him, one, but perhaps two things need to happen:
1) you need to overpay him to make the Pelicans nervous about signing him at that price.
2) you can make the Pelicans feel even more nervous by having Ball force the issue. Forcing the sign and trade to the Knicks (his dad has already proven to be a pain in the ass, so this seems possible) saves the Pelicans some face and gets them some return, even if it's mostly a trade exception.

EwingsGlass wrote:Third, in the Bullock/Burks debate, there are also other guys out there, like Cam Reddish that are worth a look. When healthy, Cam takes the toughest defensive assignments for the Hawks. Lonzo does the same for the Pels. Cam has had terrible offensive stats since coming to the NBA but I have a hard time believing this is what he is. In college, we all saw All Star upside and potentially a higher ceiling than RJ in Cam. I think putting them back together would be good for Cam and might pay real dividends for us. Especially when Zion hits FA. So, the question becomes whether there are other players with upside that can fill the same role cheaper - especially if I don't need the scoring punch?

Cams is a no-go. Atlanta really likes him and he's locked in for 2 more years.

technomaster wrote:I'm good if the Knicks pick up Ball. It'd be like getting a #2 overall draft pick after he's done with growing pains. He's sooooo much better than earlier in his career - his shooting form looks fluid and natural - he changes pace and in general looks good out there. (Granted, the below highlights are from one of the best games of his career)

Does 14+ppg/6apg/4rpg/42 fg%/38 3p%/75 ft%/1.5spg sound like max material? He may not be "worth" that now, but you figure in order to get him, one, but perhaps two things need to happen:
1) you need to overpay him to make the Pelicans nervous about signing him at that price.
2) you can make the Pelicans feel even more nervous by having Ball for the issue. Forcing the sign and trade to the Knicks (his dad has already proven to be a pain in the ass, so this seems possible) saves the Pelicans some face.

Look at how much his midrange game has improved. He still can't get to the rim as effectively as other PGs but his consistent improvement in every aspect of his game indicates he eventually will.

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Third, in the Bullock/Burks debate, there are also other guys out there, like Cam Reddish that are worth a look. When healthy, Cam takes the toughest defensive assignments for the Hawks. Lonzo does the same for the Pels. Cam has had terrible offensive stats since coming to the NBA but I have a hard time believing this is what he is. In college, we all saw All Star upside and potentially a higher ceiling than RJ in Cam. I think putting them back together would be good for Cam and might pay real dividends for us. Especially when Zion hits FA. So, the question becomes whether there are other players with upside that can fill the same role cheaper - especially if I don't need the scoring punch?

Cams is a no-go. Atlanta really likes him and he's locked in for 2 more years.

I am reading a lot about the Hawks selling low on Reddish. Sounds like Bogdonovic is locked in at SG and since Cam’s injuries, Huerter is preferred at SF. Hawks feel they need to match any offer for Collins on RFA, and they have Lou Williams and Tony Snell up in FA. In a win now mode, they need to keep one of Snell or Lou Williams and may be cap strapped to match a Collins offer sheet. So, they may need to trade Cam. But, he hasn’t done much other than play solid D, so his market value isn’t so high.

I don't think I ever recalled Thibs saying something so damning about their own player in public like this?

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TPercy wrote:I don't think I ever recalled Thibs saying something so damning about their own player in public like this?

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SVG is a biatch. Way to pass the blame. High schoolers do that all the time tho. And even some adults, apparently

I'm honestly on the fence about Ball...Love his passing ability, ability to push the ball, pass ahead and increase the tempo. Also, love his constant improvement from 3. Don't love his limited paint touches, the disappearance acts for portions of the game and the price tag it will take to get him.

He is a better pure pg than anyone we have on the roster which may or may not be saying much...

TPercy wrote:I don't think I ever recalled Thibs saying something so damning about their own player in public like this?

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Wow!!!! SVG is an asshole. Terrible way to throw your player under the bus in the media! And for the record, I've been a HS coach for 10 years, and yes they do make these type of mistakes, and worse.

TPercy wrote:I don't think I ever recalled Thibs saying something so damning about their own player in public like this?

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Stan will fail up in a season or two. Was he really the best choice given how Detroit didn't progress under him.

Ball didn’t look great today. But the things he does still would really help this team. Rose looked great today finally.

Knixkik wrote:Ball didn’t look great today. But the things he does still would really help this team. Rose looked great today finally.

No doubt. But is he worth an overpay? I don't feel like he addresses enough areas of weakness for that kind of investment.

Knixkik wrote:Ball didn’t look great today. But the things he does still would really help this team. Rose looked great today finally.

I think this is his first game back from injury (edit, this is his 2nd game back) and I heard they had him on a minutes restriction.

Welpee wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Ball didn’t look great today. But the things he does still would really help this team. Rose looked great today finally.

I think this is his first game back from injury and I heard they had him on a minutes restriction.

It was actually which explains why Stan pulled him out at the most random times today(though I stand by my opinion that his rotations suck). If anything its a good thing he's hit this slump. Shaves off a few $$ off his contract

The game now is which team will over pay for ball now. Sure won’t be the pelicans. 😅

If Lonzo really wants ny now he needs to except our under pay offer 😅

I think this offseason the only big move the knicks should do is to upgrade the starting point guard spot. At this point im not so sure if that is Lonzo but it still could be him. I think its as important to resign the trio of Bullock, Burks and Noel. Just lock both Bullock and Burks for next season and just figure things out once Beal, Lavine becomes free agents the year after. No need to make a move at the wing as a stop gap while waiting for the superstar, Burks and Bullock are showing they are more than capable.

Im curious to know what going on Mitch's mind seeing how well Noel has stepped in for him.

The knicks wont overpay to sign Lonzo, they said they wont get involved with a bidding war with the Lakers to sign Schroder. Will Lowry be interested in signing with the knicks? Who are the PG options that the knicks can get? Is Brunson a realistic trade target- what is the package you are willing to give for him?

Knixkik wrote:Ball didn’t look great today. But the things he does still would really help this team. Rose looked great today finally.

Agreed. That said, back from injury and a PG that no longer has the ball in his hands wasn’t easy for him to do much in that lineup where they aren’t using him to initiate offense. That entire Pelicans team has talent but not a lot of teamwork.

Definitely didn’t leave me screaming for Ball, but makes me wonder what Thibs could do with that guy. He has the IQ, size and the skill to be an All Star.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Ball didn’t look great today. But the things he does still would really help this team. Rose looked great today finally.

Agreed. That said, back from injury and a PG that no longer has the ball in his hands wasn’t easy for him to do much in that lineup where they aren’t using him to initiate offense. That entire Pelicans team has talent but not a lot of teamwork.

Definitely didn’t leave me screaming for Ball, but makes me wonder what Thibs could do with that guy. He has the IQ, size and the skill to be an All Star.

Him not having the ball in his hands for stretches isn't an aberration. That's where he is right now. They've found more success with other guys initiating the offense. He's a secondary, tertiary ball handler.

Get him on the cheap, fine. If you're going to spend a butt load then go for Steph I say!

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Ball didn’t look great today. But the things he does still would really help this team. Rose looked great today finally.

Agreed. That said, back from injury and a PG that no longer has the ball in his hands wasn’t easy for him to do much in that lineup where they aren’t using him to initiate offense. That entire Pelicans team has talent but not a lot of teamwork.

Definitely didn’t leave me screaming for Ball, but makes me wonder what Thibs could do with that guy. He has the IQ, size and the skill to be an All Star.

Him not having the ball in his hands for stretches isn't an aberration. That's where he is right now. They've found more success with other guys initiating the offense. He's a secondary, tertiary ball handler.

If Lonzo ends up with the knicks next season, wont he be in the same situation as he is in now? The knicks have been thriving with making Randle the point forward. What will happen if Thibs changes things and make Lonzo the primary, will Randle's game dip?

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Ball didn’t look great today. But the things he does still would really help this team. Rose looked great today finally.

Agreed. That said, back from injury and a PG that no longer has the ball in his hands wasn’t easy for him to do much in that lineup where they aren’t using him to initiate offense. That entire Pelicans team has talent but not a lot of teamwork.

Definitely didn’t leave me screaming for Ball, but makes me wonder what Thibs could do with that guy. He has the IQ, size and the skill to be an All Star.

Him not having the ball in his hands for stretches isn't an aberration. That's where he is right now. They've found more success with other guys initiating the offense. He's a secondary, tertiary ball handler.

Disagree. Its more about his multi-generational teammate who the coach wants running the team at some point. As well as a wing in Ingram who can also handle the rock. Not sure why this part is so easily dismissed by some.

Besides Lonzo plays too fast for them. He's usually a step faster than his teammates. Some of us see Lonzo on a squad that can push the tempo, with the right PG.

Believe part of it is that Lonzo makes tough passes look deceptively easy. Mitch/Noel/Obi the whole team, would all benefit from Lonzo's pin point accuracy.

Lonzo isnt like the current crop of stud PGs like Morant, with off the charts athleticism. More of a throwback. Some have mentioned Jason Kidd. Doesnt have the all around game, but Ball has the court vision. I'll take that.

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Ball didn’t look great today. But the things he does still would really help this team. Rose looked great today finally.

Agreed. That said, back from injury and a PG that no longer has the ball in his hands wasn’t easy for him to do much in that lineup where they aren’t using him to initiate offense. That entire Pelicans team has talent but not a lot of teamwork.

Definitely didn’t leave me screaming for Ball, but makes me wonder what Thibs could do with that guy. He has the IQ, size and the skill to be an All Star.

Him not having the ball in his hands for stretches isn't an aberration. That's where he is right now. They've found more success with other guys initiating the offense. He's a secondary, tertiary ball handler.

Disagree. Its more about his multi-generational teammate who the coach wants running the team at some point. As well as a wing in Ingram who can also handle the rock. Not sure why this part is so easily dismissed by some.

Besides Lonzo plays too fast for them. He's usually a step faster than his teammates. Some of us see Lonzo on a squad that can push the tempo, with the right PG.

Believe part of it is that Lonzo makes tough passes look deceptively easy. Mitch/Noel/Obi the whole team, would all benefit from Lonzo's pin point accuracy.

Lonzo isnt like the current crop of stud PGs like Morant, with off the charts athleticism. More of a throwback. Some have mentioned Jason Kidd. Doesnt have the all around game, but Ball has the court vision. I'll take that.

I’m with Gustav. Ingram and Williamson really need the ball in their hands to play. Doesn’t leav a lot of room for Ball to operate. The Knicks seem to move a bit better off the ball. Randle and Barrett may be the same, but Barrett moves without the Ball. So does Randle. They both float out to the 3.

I’m not as crazy about Williamson as most people. Kind of feel like his body will keep catching up with him.

I’d still go for Ball, if only for his defense and hope that Jalen Johnson’s draft stock plummeted enough for the Knicks to swoop in and get him — even if they have to package picks to move up.

I think the Knicks could have a very opportunistic offseason and could make a couple splashes no one expected.