Knicks · Do the Knicks really need to address the PG this summer? (page 2)

unstopaball12 wrote:Yes Rose is too old and miles on his legs to become the lead point guard. I think Payton and Frank are a goner. I still like the drose quickley as back ups.

I'd take a gamble on lowry as lead guard on a 2 year deal and by year 2, Quickley should challenge him for the top PG position with rose shifting to a taj Gibson role.

I agree it's hard to count on Rose given his injury history and wear and tear - but hes' having a better year than Lowry and Lowry is 35. My preference would be to keep Rose and bring in a young PG.

The way Rose is performing this year, the need to spend big money on a PG doesn't seem as urgent. I think we can count on Rose to play anywhere from 24-28 mins per night, especially when you consider Thibs comfort level with him on the floor. At 24-28 mins per, it might be a good idea to target a young, big guard that can play both guard positions so that he and Rose can play together. Ball makes a lot of sense, skill wise and size wise, but maybe not at that price.

Uptown wrote:The way Rose is performing this year, the need to spend big money on a PG doesn't seem as urgent. I think we can count on Rose to play anywhere from 24-28 mins per night, especially when you consider Thibs comfort level with him on the floor. At 24-28 mins per, it might be a good idea to target a young, big guard that can play both guard positions so that he and Rose can play together. Ball makes a lot of sense, skill wise and size wise, but maybe not at that price.

I agree, I'm on board for Ball but probably not at the price he will command. I think he has a lot of upside, but we'd be paying for it upfront and it may not materialize.

I hope that Luca guy can really ball

TPercy wrote:I hope that Luca guy can really ball

The hurdle he has to beat is Payton, so it's almost house money

BigDaddyG wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Money and relevance. DRose has relevance. Lowrey has the money. What of next season? Platoon guys over 30? Pay Lowrey 25mm per for 2 years but not give Rose a big raise? Lets not test our luck here. DRose Adidas money is not our business. Does he say to Knicks “Hey, I’m happy being underpaid and this “Good soldier it he Army of Thibs is cool so don’t worry about money?” or “I’m like the comeback player of the year and I’m not a max guy, but my agent called and said there’s 3 teams that are backing the truck up to the driveway and gonna pay what Lowrey gets......”
Well see.
Something new, some old, something borrowed, something blue............

DRose is our old dude. We draft someone as a project, we borrow Vildoza and see if he a keeper and IQ is Knick Blue. Who knows really. Luca gives us flexibility.

We win because we have a big three, and DRose is the third cog. Not sure we can or should count on this as sustainable. I’m enjoying the moment too much to worry about improving the team for next year.

We playing over our heads. This is not the baseline for many reasons. But its fun as heck!!

I agree that Rose is a 3rd big piece when he is on. My hope is Rose continues to do what he's doing for another year or two, and Quickley eventually fills that role as playmaking/scoring extraordinaire as a starter.

With cap space, a slew of daft picks to use or as trade fodder, and internal development the future is wide open and beyond the scope of IQ and his role going forward. DRose judicious use of his talent matured beyond his previous physical domination. He simply was faster, stronger and able to leap then anyone on the court. He now is able to provide some of that, but create space with an improved shooting touch. That said, IQ has long way to go before he can be a starter. He has the shooting, but the defense and pace has a long way to go. He will never be DRose we can all agree. I dont’ know if he is a 6th man/finisher as I don’t see him as a PG quite yet. I’m just enthralled by the process and the possibilities even with him as a trade asset.
Teams rarely move down in the draft in the fist few picks. If they have a high conviction on a player they get lower is how that works. at the same time trading up has to have that element as well. We will be active on draft night but we might not see a deal. Aller and company seemed to like to “bob and weave” on draft night and with 4 picks this year I don’t see us using them all. I can’t tell you how we’ll do it.

10-20 are not that great. Duplicate talent that we already have on the roster.

1-7 wouldn’t trade with us

Unless we are unloading all this years next years and a few 2023 second rounders and Toppin for suggs

I see no point

You know you have become a good team when it becomes difficult to draft players.

Maybe move up and get Davion mitchel. This doesn’t seem like to much of reach.

I think the Knicks need to stand pat and get the best players available. The top 5 picks are to costly to obtain and a lot of scouts don't see a lot of variance between the mid-lottery and the 20s in this year's draft. Maybe trade the Dallas pick for a future pick in the double draft? Heck, I've already seen debates about Mitchell and his teammate, Butler.

Exactly

TPercy wrote:I hope that Luca guy can really ball

If he can it opens so many many possibilities

Absolutely. What I dont believe is getting enough attention is how the offense is so dependent on Randle and RJ. To the point that they have been 1 and 3 in minutes played. Dont believe the team should be trying to find out how long giving Randle and RJ league leading minutes, is sustainable.

This is where the team has run into trouble in the past. Relying on certain players too much. A real floor general should be able to get more production out of their teammates. While generating enough offense to be considered a threat.

Its a big mistake IMO to go into next season with Randle and RJ playing more minutes than almost everyone else. Its safe to say that they're franchise players going forward. Will be paid accordingly. Its important to keep RJ and Randle as injury free as feasible for the long term.

It should start with finding a PG who can handle the job.

It mostly depends on the caliber of player able to be acquired. Out of the PG spot we mostly need a specific skill set. Which is a true floor general who routinely creates easy buckets for his teammates.

Now if you are able to somehow land a stud G/F. Then the PG doesn't need to be a star, can be a rotational player that splits time with Rose offering complimentary skill set. One of Burks or Bullock would need to be sacrificed though. If they are able to land a stud PG though, then Burks and Bullock would be sufficient enough on the wing as role players.

martin wrote:

TPercy wrote:I hope that Luca guy can really ball

The hurdle he has to beat is Payton, so it's almost house money

Lol very true

xblvdels3 wrote:

TPercy wrote:I hope that Luca guy can really ball

If he can it opens so many many possibilities

Only problem is risk. If we go into next season with just Luca and Rose and Luca dosent pan out and Rose gets injured god forbid then we are worse off. I think drafting a PG like Jared Butler could be good enough insurance to make the risk worthwhile..

TPercy wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:

TPercy wrote:I hope that Luca guy can really ball

If he can it opens so many many possibilities

Only problem is risk. If we go into next season with just Luca and Rose and Luca dosent pan out and Rose gets injured god forbid then we are worse off. I think drafting a PG like Jared Butler could be good enough insurance to make the risk worthwhile..

Imo we are going in with rose Luca iq and drafting ayo dosunmo

xblvdels3 wrote:

TPercy wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:

TPercy wrote:I hope that Luca guy can really ball

If he can it opens so many many possibilities

Only problem is risk. If we go into next season with just Luca and Rose and Luca dosent pan out and Rose gets injured god forbid then we are worse off. I think drafting a PG like Jared Butler could be good enough insurance to make the risk worthwhile..

Imo we are going in with rose Luca iq and drafting ayo dosunmo

Dosunmu or Butler would both be solid options because they can play either guard position. I do think packaging our picks for Davion Mitchell could be a bit of a best-case scenario too. He's the most NBA ready and defensive game-changer we could realistically get in the draft. But there's some nba-ready guards here that would fit nicely.

Knixkik wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:

TPercy wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:

TPercy wrote:I hope that Luca guy can really ball

If he can it opens so many many possibilities

Only problem is risk. If we go into next season with just Luca and Rose and Luca dosent pan out and Rose gets injured god forbid then we are worse off. I think drafting a PG like Jared Butler could be good enough insurance to make the risk worthwhile..

Imo we are going in with rose Luca iq and drafting ayo dosunmo

Dosunmu or Butler would both be solid options because they can play either guard position. I do think packaging our picks for Davion Mitchell could be a bit of a best-case scenario too. He's the most NBA ready and defensive game-changer we could realistically get in the draft. But there's some nba-ready guards here that would fit nicely.

Sounds right

fun fact. I believe dosunmo and rose are both Chicago 🏀 products. They would have stuff to talk about possibly lol

Yea I could see mitchel and butler as a move they could choose also.

We are at the phase in this rebuild now where we could use our pics the next 3 years to get any player we really want 8 and above pick.

Weoponizing pics phase of rebuild

If the Knicks really feel they like a player this year pick 10-19 they can have him if they choose.

I’ll be interested in the combine measurements this year.

hell yeah we do. Lock down a veteran floor general for money. The rest of the roster can be bring-backs and drafted players. I am hearing Lowry now. Nothing makes more sense than spending FA money on veteran PG player while retaining all your assets/picks moving forward.

Knixkik wrote:Seems like Rose is an elite PG when he’s healthy and in rhythm. The concern is always minutes and making sure he doesn’t carry a heavy workload. Knicks signing Vildoza essentially leaves them with a Rose, Quickley, and Vildoza group. If they view Vildoza as a rotation player, I can see them using he and Quickley off the bench together to keep Rose's minutes under 30 per game. Then they could either draft or sign a deep bench PG for depth. Jared Butler or Dosummu are options in the draft, or someone like Ish Smith or Raul Neto could be a deep bench piece. On the other hand, if the Knicks look to sign bigger name PG like Ball or Schroder, than Vildoza essentially is relegated to a 3rd/4th string prospect for next year. So what’s the answer here ? Make Rose, Quickley and Vildoza the priority or bring in another big name PG to upgrade over Payton and keep the bench unit in place while Vildoza essentially has a development year?

I would like to see the Knicks make an offer on Devonte Graham. And hope CHA does not match it. Also, like Dinwiddie. Think he opts out and may welcome a bigger role. Would prefer to stay away from the Ball and Schroder overpay. Also do not like anyone over 32 unless they are taking a low-cost 1-year deal.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Seems like Rose is an elite PG when he’s healthy and in rhythm. The concern is always minutes and making sure he doesn’t carry a heavy workload. Knicks signing Vildoza essentially leaves them with a Rose, Quickley, and Vildoza group. If they view Vildoza as a rotation player, I can see them using he and Quickley off the bench together to keep Rose's minutes under 30 per game. Then they could either draft or sign a deep bench PG for depth. Jared Butler or Dosummu are options in the draft, or someone like Ish Smith or Raul Neto could be a deep bench piece. On the other hand, if the Knicks look to sign bigger name PG like Ball or Schroder, than Vildoza essentially is relegated to a 3rd/4th string prospect for next year. So what’s the answer here ? Make Rose, Quickley and Vildoza the priority or bring in another big name PG to upgrade over Payton and keep the bench unit in place while Vildoza essentially has a development year?

I would like to see the Knicks make an offer on Devonte Graham. And hope CHA does not match it. Also, like Dinwiddie. Think he opts out and may welcome a bigger role. Would prefer to stay away from the Ball and Schroder overpay. Also do not like anyone over 32 unless they are taking a low-cost 1-year deal.

Graham and Dinwiddie aren’t bad options at all, I just wonder if they move the needle.

Knixkik wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Seems like Rose is an elite PG when he’s healthy and in rhythm. The concern is always minutes and making sure he doesn’t carry a heavy workload. Knicks signing Vildoza essentially leaves them with a Rose, Quickley, and Vildoza group. If they view Vildoza as a rotation player, I can see them using he and Quickley off the bench together to keep Rose's minutes under 30 per game. Then they could either draft or sign a deep bench PG for depth. Jared Butler or Dosummu are options in the draft, or someone like Ish Smith or Raul Neto could be a deep bench piece. On the other hand, if the Knicks look to sign bigger name PG like Ball or Schroder, than Vildoza essentially is relegated to a 3rd/4th string prospect for next year. So what’s the answer here ? Make Rose, Quickley and Vildoza the priority or bring in another big name PG to upgrade over Payton and keep the bench unit in place while Vildoza essentially has a development year?

I would like to see the Knicks make an offer on Devonte Graham. And hope CHA does not match it. Also, like Dinwiddie. Think he opts out and may welcome a bigger role. Would prefer to stay away from the Ball and Schroder overpay. Also do not like anyone over 32 unless they are taking a low-cost 1-year deal.

Graham and Dinwiddie aren’t bad options at all, I just wonder if they move the needle.

Think they are both sleepers and have shown they can produce. Also would like the Knicks to make an offer on RFA Nunn. Especially if Miami goes after Lowry or another FA and sleeps on Nunn.

Knixkik wrote:..... So what’s the answer here ? Make Rose, Quickley and Vildoza the priority or bring in another big name PG to upgrade over Payton and keep the bench unit in place while Vildoza essentially has a development year?

Time to look past the common names, the repeated media storylines and the most expensive options. You want good players. Some might have ball handling/facilitator capability, some might only have shades of it. The reality is the Knicks might have to do without a traditional type point guard because there is no real practical option in the current market ( i.e. everyone is too expensive or too old or a poor fit or costs too much in trade, etc etc)

I mentioned Spencer Dinwiddie in another thread. There were some talks involving D'Angelo Russell earlier in the season, how far that went, I don't know.

Guys in general to look at -

1) Talen Horton-Tucker RFA

2) Alex Caruso UFA

3) Goran Dragic ( Team Option)

4) Will Barton (Player Option)

5) Chris Chiozza (Two Way Restricted)

6) Nico Mannion (Two Way Restricted)

7) George Hill ( 1.3 million buyout)

8) Gary Trent Jr RFA

9) Kevin Huerter Trade Candidate

So not all of these guys can be a primary ball handler/facilitator. Well, OK, maybe the Knicks will have to split duties a bit or miscast a role for practical cap reasons.

I have a hard time seeing Goran Dragic leaving the Heat. However I have a hard time seeing the Heat picking up that option as it stands now. If he frees up and walks, he's not a horrible stop gap option depending on price.

Several teams are hovering around Talen Horton Tucker. Could he run an offense with a larger role? He's a really interesting player.

Caruso is a damn good player. He has limits but he can help any team. Chiozza and Mannion are raw and have issues but they'll be cheap and won't take much investment. Trent is actually a pretty handy player to have in the rotation. Huerter might just need a change of scenery.

The answer is wait, be patient, let other teams make big splashes with big expensive names, see what emerges on the trade market as the third or fourth team in a mega deal, and look for value in non traditional places.

OldFan wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:Yes Rose is too old and miles on his legs to become the lead point guard. I think Payton and Frank are a goner. I still like the drose quickley as back ups.

I'd take a gamble on lowry as lead guard on a 2 year deal and by year 2, Quickley should challenge him for the top PG position with rose shifting to a taj Gibson role.

I agree it's hard to count on Rose given his injury history and wear and tear - but hes' having a better year than Lowry and Lowry is 35. My preference would be to keep Rose and bring in a young PG.

I think lowry sucks now because they aren't contending and could be because of the relocation to tampa Bay.

But I think under thibs and a competitive team he can still thrive. We aren't competing with other teams as they are strapped for cash. Reports of 50M for 2 years is not bad for him. Make quickley compete for the starting PG spot in his year 3 and shift lowry to the rose role in year, while rose if he is still here make him the taj Gibson role

unstopaball12 wrote:

OldFan wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:Yes Rose is too old and miles on his legs to become the lead point guard. I think Payton and Frank are a goner. I still like the drose quickley as back ups.

I'd take a gamble on lowry as lead guard on a 2 year deal and by year 2, Quickley should challenge him for the top PG position with rose shifting to a taj Gibson role.

I agree it's hard to count on Rose given his injury history and wear and tear - but hes' having a better year than Lowry and Lowry is 35. My preference would be to keep Rose and bring in a young PG.

I think lowry sucks now because they aren't contending and could be because of the relocation to tampa Bay.

But I think under thibs and a competitive team he can still thrive. We aren't competing with other teams as they are strapped for cash. Reports of 50M for 2 years is not bad for him. Make quickley compete for the starting PG spot in his year 3 and shift lowry to the rose role in year, while rose if he is still here make him the taj Gibson role

A change of scenery certainly helped Rose.