Knicks · Do the Knicks really need to address the PG this summer? (page 1)

Seems like Rose is an elite PG when he’s healthy and in rhythm. The concern is always minutes and making sure he doesn’t carry a heavy workload. Knicks signing Vildoza essentially leaves them with a Rose, Quickley, and Vildoza group. If they view Vildoza as a rotation player, I can see them using he and Quickley off the bench together to keep Rose's minutes under 30 per game. Then they could either draft or sign a deep bench PG for depth. Jared Butler or Dosummu are options in the draft, or someone like Ish Smith or Raul Neto could be a deep bench piece. On the other hand, if the Knicks look to sign bigger name PG like Ball or Schroder, than Vildoza essentially is relegated to a 3rd/4th string prospect for next year. So what’s the answer here ? Make Rose, Quickley and Vildoza the priority or bring in another big name PG to upgrade over Payton and keep the bench unit in place while Vildoza essentially has a development year?

Too early to tell. Hopefully the Olympics take place and we can get sense of weather or not Luka can be a suitable minutes eater.

BigDaddyG wrote:Too early to tell. Hopefully the Olympics take place and we can get sense of weather or not Luka can be a suitable minutes eater.

Yeah so it really comes down to whether or not Vildoza is a rotation-caliber guard next season. Rose is great in his role but I think he belongs in a starting lineup. The key will always be his minutes. Rose could start a lot of places next year. My assumption is he will be brought back but he may be promised an increased role, likely replacing Payton.

Knixkik wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Too early to tell. Hopefully the Olympics take place and we can get sense of weather or not Luka can be a suitable minutes eater.

Yeah so it really comes down to whether or not Vildoza is a rotation-caliber guard next season. Rose is great in his role but I think he belongs in a starting lineup. The key will always be his minutes. Rose could start a lot of places next year. My assumption is he will be brought back but he may be promised an increased role, likely replacing Payton.

I think Rose is good with his role. He's been playing it the last few years. He knows who he is. But I could see another team offering $7-$8M next year. How great a fit would he be on the Lakers right now? But I'm not worried about it. I think he's comfortable with Thibs and comes back. Still don't want him starting unless it's the playoffs. I believe we need another body to take the punishment in the regular season and it can't be Payton.

Yes. Payton still sucks. Rose has played really well but he’s a 6th man at this point. IQ is a combo guard

Yes Rose is too old and miles on his legs to become the lead point guard. I think Payton and Frank are a goner. I still like the drose quickley as back ups.

I'd take a gamble on lowry as lead guard on a 2 year deal and by year 2, Quickley should challenge him for the top PG position with rose shifting to a taj Gibson role.

unstopaball12 wrote:Yes Rose is too old and miles on his legs to become the lead point guard. I think Payton and Frank are a goner. I still like the drose quickley as back ups.

I'd take a gamble on lowry as lead guard on a 2 year deal and by year 2, Quickley should challenge him for the top PG position with rose shifting to a taj Gibson role.

I just like Rose and Quickley too much in their current roles

Frank is going to the nets

Although I have a much better opinion of Payton than a few months ago, he is of course not a long-term solution. I believe that this role from the bench suits Rose the most, and it suits the team to have such an option on the bench. As for IQ, I’m still not convinced at this point that he’s PG. He is a combo guard whose game is more SG than PG. Luca is a great signature, but at this point I don’t expect too much from him. If by chance it turns out that there is material to be PG for 20-25 minutes per game, then it is a jackpot.

Given all of the above, yes, I think we need a PG although I have to admit I have a slight doubt how the arrival of the ball dominant guard will affect Randle’s game.

I Don’t doubt rose ability. At his age I don’t see him playing over 45 games in the regular season. Because of Personal reasons or injury he will not play.

Imo the team functions better with him in the second unit. The first unit just needs a competent pg.

The first unit has guys who know what they want to do.

In 2 years the first unit will have 3 super heroes who know what they like to do on the court.

Then we will attract the super heroes in decline who will ring chase for no money.

They just need a pg who D up knocks down his shots and commands their respect.

Thibs studies basketball 24/7 all his life and he sees it this way also it seems. Thibs guy is rose! Think about that. His guy who he knows is not being given the start. Why? Because Thibs knows his guy!

We just need a competent/solid pg for the first unit

Use that 50m 2 years from now to hire another all star weapon or a B guy and a all star

I know most are thinking about the sexy move/pg to make this team more fun to watch next year but IMO the focus this off season is

Extending

Randle 27m
Robinson 10-12m

Drafting players who are happy and comfortable playing a role like how bullock taj Noel burks are doing.

For long term success these guys need to be replaced in 2 years for cheap

Toppin starting to play like I expected him to play game 1 of the season.

Just like his entire basketball career he is coming along slowly it seems.

CleRky would be putting up 15ppg if he got the keys how knox and rj did their first year with minutes

Toppin is clearly out of the possible bust discussion.

For all you guys who think he Doesnt fit this team he has value on the trade market. He looks like a 8th pick.

Our draft failures the last 4 years are Knox and ntlikina

Always draft good motor guys. Even if they don’t have talent they will give you 100 percent effort.

Frank should have been drafted in the mid 20s by a team. Was this a Phil Jackson joke?

Imo harden is the exception. Low motor guy who is crafty, elite and skilled covers it up lol goat of low motor players lol

xblvdels3 wrote:Our draft failures the last 4 years are Knox and ntlikina

Each of them is a different story.

Toppin in my opinion was not even a candidate to be a bust. He’s as old as he is and it was pretty clear what he was bringing. It could hardly have happened that he didn’t get along in the NBA at all. But also, it is clear that he did not have any huge space up to his ceiling. And in the end, he will be a player accordingly. OK player for rotation or to be a backup, but he can hardly be an above-average starter.

Knox was the complete opposite. He was a kid and a completely unfinished player. He had certain tools that the scouts hoped would have a very high ceiling if certain things matched. But in the end, what seemed to be the decisive factor was what was the biggest red flag. He just doesn’t have an “engine”. He has no determination and is not focused on basketball as something that is “everything in his life” and he simply failed to impose himself.

IMHO Frank has been misused since day one because he just isn’t a PG and I believe he would have been a lot better today had he been a 3&D SG from the start. He simply doesn't have the mentality of being a lead guard, and in the meantime he was left completely and without confidence for a shooting, although in my opinion he should have been a completely OK catch & shoot player. But I'm afraid it's hard to fix it now. It didn’t help either that we had Lee and Hardaway on the wing at the time so it was “easier” to leave him on PG.

unstopaball12 wrote:Yes Rose is too old and miles on his legs to become the lead point guard. I think Payton and Frank are a goner. I still like the drose quickley as back ups.

I'd take a gamble on lowry as lead guard on a 2 year deal and by year 2, Quickley should challenge him for the top PG position with rose shifting to a taj Gibson role.

I agree Lowry is definitely an option to consider.

Knixkik wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:Yes Rose is too old and miles on his legs to become the lead point guard. I think Payton and Frank are a goner. I still like the drose quickley as back ups.

I'd take a gamble on lowry as lead guard on a 2 year deal and by year 2, Quickley should challenge him for the top PG position with rose shifting to a taj Gibson role.

I agree Lowry is definitely an option to consider.

This wouldn’t kill me but if this is your choice you can’t complain if we can’t afford another difference maker.

xavier wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:Our draft failures the last 4 years are Knox and ntlikina

Each of them is a different story.

Toppin in my opinion was not even a candidate to be a bust. He’s as old as he is and it was pretty clear what he was bringing. It could hardly have happened that he didn’t get along in the NBA at all. But also, it is clear that he did not have any huge space up to his ceiling. And in the end, he will be a player accordingly. OK player for rotation or to be a backup, but he can hardly be an above-average starter.

Knox was the complete opposite. He was a kid and a completely unfinished player. He had certain tools that the scouts hoped would have a very high ceiling if certain things matched. But in the end, what seemed to be the decisive factor was what was the biggest red flag. He just doesn’t have an “engine”. He has no determination and is not focused on basketball as something that is “everything in his life” and he simply failed to impose himself.

IMHO Frank has been misused since day one because he just isn’t a PG and I believe he would have been a lot better today had he been a 3&D SG from the start. He simply doesn't have the mentality of being a lead guard, and in the meantime he was left completely and without confidence for a shooting, although in my opinion he should have been a completely OK catch & shoot player. But I'm afraid it's hard to fix it now. It didn’t help either that we had Lee and Hardaway on the wing at the time so it was “easier” to leave him on PG.

Very good points

But give Toppin a summer or two before you limit his ceiling.

Knox I totally agree

Frank I totally agree

xblvdels3 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:Yes Rose is too old and miles on his legs to become the lead point guard. I think Payton and Frank are a goner. I still like the drose quickley as back ups.

I'd take a gamble on lowry as lead guard on a 2 year deal and by year 2, Quickley should challenge him for the top PG position with rose shifting to a taj Gibson role.

I agree Lowry is definitely an option to consider.

This wouldn’t kill me but if this is your choice you can’t complain if we can’t afford another difference maker.

Agreed. The other option is a middle ground of grabbing McConnell or Caruso. A PG who is a slight upgrade over Payton and allow Rose to start and/or finish. I don’t believe Rose starting is an issue. But we have to keep his minutes in check. 28 or less per game. Having a committee behind him would solve that.

Money and relevance. DRose has relevance. Lowrey has the money. What of next season? Platoon guys over 30? Pay Lowrey 25mm per for 2 years but not give Rose a big raise? Lets not test our luck here. DRose Adidas money is not our business. Does he say to Knicks “Hey, I’m happy being underpaid and this “Good soldier it he Army of Thibs is cool so don’t worry about money?” or “I’m like the comeback player of the year and I’m not a max guy, but my agent called and said there’s 3 teams that are backing the truck up to the driveway and gonna pay what Lowrey gets......”
Well see.
Something new, some old, something borrowed, something blue............

DRose is our old dude. We draft someone as a project, we borrow Vildoza and see if he a keeper and IQ is Knick Blue. Who knows really. Luca gives us flexibility.

We win because we have a big three, and DRose is the third cog. Not sure we can or should count on this as sustainable. I’m enjoying the moment too much to worry about improving the team for next year.

We playing over our heads. This is not the baseline for many reasons. But its fun as heck!!

Nalod wrote:Money and relevance. DRose has relevance. Lowrey has the money. What of next season? Platoon guys over 30? Pay Lowrey 25mm per for 2 years but not give Rose a big raise? Lets not test our luck here. DRose Adidas money is not our business. Does he say to Knicks “Hey, I’m happy being underpaid and this “Good soldier it he Army of Thibs is cool so don’t worry about money?” or “I’m like the comeback player of the year and I’m not a max guy, but my agent called and said there’s 3 teams that are backing the truck up to the driveway and gonna pay what Lowrey gets......”
Well see.
Something new, some old, something borrowed, something blue............

DRose is our old dude. We draft someone as a project, we borrow Vildoza and see if he a keeper and IQ is Knick Blue. Who knows really. Luca gives us flexibility.

We win because we have a big three, and DRose is the third cog. Not sure we can or should count on this as sustainable. I’m enjoying the moment too much to worry about improving the team for next year.

We playing over our heads. This is not the baseline for many reasons. But its fun as heck!!

I agree that Rose is a 3rd big piece when he is on. My hope is Rose continues to do what he's doing for another year or two, and Quickley eventually fills that role as playmaking/scoring extraordinaire as a starter.

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Money and relevance. DRose has relevance. Lowrey has the money. What of next season? Platoon guys over 30? Pay Lowrey 25mm per for 2 years but not give Rose a big raise? Lets not test our luck here. DRose Adidas money is not our business. Does he say to Knicks “Hey, I’m happy being underpaid and this “Good soldier it he Army of Thibs is cool so don’t worry about money?” or “I’m like the comeback player of the year and I’m not a max guy, but my agent called and said there’s 3 teams that are backing the truck up to the driveway and gonna pay what Lowrey gets......”
Well see.
Something new, some old, something borrowed, something blue............

DRose is our old dude. We draft someone as a project, we borrow Vildoza and see if he a keeper and IQ is Knick Blue. Who knows really. Luca gives us flexibility.

We win because we have a big three, and DRose is the third cog. Not sure we can or should count on this as sustainable. I’m enjoying the moment too much to worry about improving the team for next year.

We playing over our heads. This is not the baseline for many reasons. But its fun as heck!!

I agree that Rose is a 3rd big piece when he is on. My hope is Rose continues to do what he's doing for another year or two, and Quickley eventually fills that role as playmaking/scoring extraordinaire as a starter.

With cap space, a slew of daft picks to use or as trade fodder, and internal development the future is wide open and beyond the scope of IQ and his role going forward. DRose judicious use of his talent matured beyond his previous physical domination. He simply was faster, stronger and able to leap then anyone on the court. He now is able to provide some of that, but create space with an improved shooting touch. That said, IQ has long way to go before he can be a starter. He has the shooting, but the defense and pace has a long way to go. He will never be DRose we can all agree. I dont’ know if he is a 6th man/finisher as I don’t see him as a PG quite yet. I’m just enthralled by the process and the possibilities even with him as a trade asset.
Teams rarely move down in the draft in the fist few picks. If they have a high conviction on a player they get lower is how that works. at the same time trading up has to have that element as well. We will be active on draft night but we might not see a deal. Aller and company seemed to like to “bob and weave” on draft night and with 4 picks this year I don’t see us using them all. I can’t tell you how we’ll do it.

Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Money and relevance. DRose has relevance. Lowrey has the money. What of next season? Platoon guys over 30? Pay Lowrey 25mm per for 2 years but not give Rose a big raise? Lets not test our luck here. DRose Adidas money is not our business. Does he say to Knicks “Hey, I’m happy being underpaid and this “Good soldier it he Army of Thibs is cool so don’t worry about money?” or “I’m like the comeback player of the year and I’m not a max guy, but my agent called and said there’s 3 teams that are backing the truck up to the driveway and gonna pay what Lowrey gets......”
Well see.
Something new, some old, something borrowed, something blue............

DRose is our old dude. We draft someone as a project, we borrow Vildoza and see if he a keeper and IQ is Knick Blue. Who knows really. Luca gives us flexibility.

We win because we have a big three, and DRose is the third cog. Not sure we can or should count on this as sustainable. I’m enjoying the moment too much to worry about improving the team for next year.

We playing over our heads. This is not the baseline for many reasons. But its fun as heck!!

I agree that Rose is a 3rd big piece when he is on. My hope is Rose continues to do what he's doing for another year or two, and Quickley eventually fills that role as playmaking/scoring extraordinaire as a starter.

With cap space, a slew of daft picks to use or as trade fodder, and internal development the future is wide open and beyond the scope of IQ and his role going forward. DRose judicious use of his talent matured beyond his previous physical domination. He simply was faster, stronger and able to leap then anyone on the court. He now is able to provide some of that, but create space with an improved shooting touch. That said, IQ has long way to go before he can be a starter. He has the shooting, but the defense and pace has a long way to go. He will never be DRose we can all agree. I dont’ know if he is a 6th man/finisher as I don’t see him as a PG quite yet. I’m just enthralled by the process and the possibilities even with him as a trade asset.
Teams rarely move down in the draft in the fist few picks. If they have a high conviction on a player they get lower is how that works. at the same time trading up has to have that element as well. We will be active on draft night but we might not see a deal. Aller and company seemed to like to “bob and weave” on draft night and with 4 picks this year I don’t see us using them all. I can’t tell you how we’ll do it.

10-20 are not that great. Duplicate talent that we already have on the roster.

1-7 wouldn’t trade with us

Unless we are unloading all this years next years and a few 2023 second rounders and Toppin for suggs

I see no point

You know you have become a good team when it becomes difficult to draft players.

Maybe move up and get Davion mitchel. This doesn’t seem like to much of reach.

Everyone loves the idea of moving up to the top. But there is talent even at pick 30.

We drafted iq in the 20s he was projected as a second rounder.

I’d rather have 4 chances to get lucky than trade all 4 for 1 guy sometimes

We had 3 chances last year. We got lucky with 1 and the other at 8 is just now coming along slowly

It’s a crap shoot. We have 1-4 chances of finding an impactful player

xblvdels3 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Money and relevance. DRose has relevance. Lowrey has the money. What of next season? Platoon guys over 30? Pay Lowrey 25mm per for 2 years but not give Rose a big raise? Lets not test our luck here. DRose Adidas money is not our business. Does he say to Knicks “Hey, I’m happy being underpaid and this “Good soldier it he Army of Thibs is cool so don’t worry about money?” or “I’m like the comeback player of the year and I’m not a max guy, but my agent called and said there’s 3 teams that are backing the truck up to the driveway and gonna pay what Lowrey gets......”
Well see.
Something new, some old, something borrowed, something blue............

DRose is our old dude. We draft someone as a project, we borrow Vildoza and see if he a keeper and IQ is Knick Blue. Who knows really. Luca gives us flexibility.

We win because we have a big three, and DRose is the third cog. Not sure we can or should count on this as sustainable. I’m enjoying the moment too much to worry about improving the team for next year.

We playing over our heads. This is not the baseline for many reasons. But its fun as heck!!

I agree that Rose is a 3rd big piece when he is on. My hope is Rose continues to do what he's doing for another year or two, and Quickley eventually fills that role as playmaking/scoring extraordinaire as a starter.

With cap space, a slew of daft picks to use or as trade fodder, and internal development the future is wide open and beyond the scope of IQ and his role going forward. DRose judicious use of his talent matured beyond his previous physical domination. He simply was faster, stronger and able to leap then anyone on the court. He now is able to provide some of that, but create space with an improved shooting touch. That said, IQ has long way to go before he can be a starter. He has the shooting, but the defense and pace has a long way to go. He will never be DRose we can all agree. I dont’ know if he is a 6th man/finisher as I don’t see him as a PG quite yet. I’m just enthralled by the process and the possibilities even with him as a trade asset.
Teams rarely move down in the draft in the fist few picks. If they have a high conviction on a player they get lower is how that works. at the same time trading up has to have that element as well. We will be active on draft night but we might not see a deal. Aller and company seemed to like to “bob and weave” on draft night and with 4 picks this year I don’t see us using them all. I can’t tell you how we’ll do it.

10-20 are not that great. Duplicate talent that we already have on the roster.

1-7 wouldn’t trade with us

Unless we are unloading all this years next years and a few 2023 second rounders and Toppin for suggs

I see no point

You know you have become a good team when it becomes difficult to draft players.

Maybe move up and get Davion mitchel. This doesn’t seem like to much of reach.

I think the Knicks need to stand pat and get the best players available. The top 5 picks are to costly to obtain and a lot of scouts don't see a lot of variance between the mid-lottery and the 20s in this year's draft. Maybe trade the Dallas pick for a future pick in the double draft? Heck, I've already seen debates about Mitchell and his teammate, Butler.

unstopaball12 wrote:Yes Rose is too old and miles on his legs to become the lead point guard. I think Payton and Frank are a goner. I still like the drose quickley as back ups.

I'd take a gamble on lowry as lead guard on a 2 year deal and by year 2, Quickley should challenge him for the top PG position with rose shifting to a taj Gibson role.

I agree it's hard to count on Rose given his injury history and wear and tear - but hes' having a better year than Lowry and Lowry is 35. My preference would be to keep Rose and bring in a young PG.