Knicks · Anyone still not big on this off-season? (page 1)

I think before today the off-season was best described as boring, vanilla etc, with moderate improvement. It wasn't good or bad to me, it was just fine. Most seemed very underwhelmed, and expected more. The common theme the day going into free agency was the most likely scenario was probably Fournier/Schroder or a similar combination. Adding Kemba came completely out of left field, and the mood here has done a complete 180. We expected another shoe to drop, but this was a shock. While we don't know if Kemba will be the star level player he once was, his contract will limit any real concerns, as well as the guard depth. We got the combination of Rose/Kemba for less than Ball (as well as DeRozan on his own.) Adding Kemba and Fournier to replace Payton/Bullock, drafting Grimes and McBride (while adding a future 1st rounder from Charlotte) and bringing back the remaining of the core from last year is the home run of home runs when you consider all of which was done within cap space. Additional, each contract is non-guaranteed in the last year. Leon and team have successfully added talent, added youth, maintained continuity from last year's success, and maintained future flexibility with both tradable contracts and future draft picks. The outcome is unknown, but big, big win today!

FO did this all right IMHO

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They took care of all the teams immediate needs. No complaints from me

Yesterday I would have given it a C- as we had nobody to take the ball out of Randle's hands as he crossed mid-court. Today I'd give it a B with realistic expectations that Kemba gives us some clutch moments mixed in with some natural/aging decline this season. Glad he was cheap!

jskinny35 wrote:Yesterday I would have given it a C- as we had nobody to take the ball out of Randle's hands as he crossed mid-court. Today I'd give it a B with realistic expectations that Kemba gives us some clutch moments mixed in with some natural/aging decline this season. Glad he was cheap!

He will be playing the entire season still only 31. It's not young but he's the same age as Lillard/younger than Harden etc, and maybe can have another few years at the level he's currently at (whatever that is.) And like you said he's cheap for the next 2 years it seems.

I evaluate offseasons based on whether the starting 5 is upgraded. Based on below I’d say yes

Starting 5:

PG: Kemba
SG: RJ
SF: Fournier
PF: Randle
C: Mitch

The Kemba moves makes the team a lot better. Moving Rose to the Bench and Mcbride / Grimes out of the rotation is huge upgrade in talent to the starters and bench.

I really hate that we traded the #19 for two seconds in 2026 or whatever it is

But, I like the draft class, we upgraded two starters, we brought most of the band back together, and I love Kemba so…

Yeah, I have shifted my opinion on the offseason

SupremeCommander wrote:I really hate that we traded the #19 for two seconds in 2026 or whatever it is

But, I like the draft class, we upgraded two starters, we brought most of the band back together, and I love Kemba so…

Yeah, I have shifted my opinion on the offseason

Well, Leon Rose and company has showed to be a interim president/GM for the Covid-19 season.
They have to GO! The Knicks FO offseason moves has reduce the 2021-22 season into a 30 win season.
The Knicks really needed the 19th pick for the upcoming season.
Please, someone convince me what the heck did Kemba Walker & Evan Fournier performance do in Boston's 5 game playoff series to make the next NBA team want their services? They both were BUMS & LOSERS that showed each postseason game they were not ready for the playoff level of the NBA !!!

Kemet wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I really hate that we traded the #19 for two seconds in 2026 or whatever it is

But, I like the draft class, we upgraded two starters, we brought most of the band back together, and I love Kemba so…

Yeah, I have shifted my opinion on the offseason

Well, Leon Rose and company has showed to be a interim president/GM for the Covid-19 season.
They have to GO! The Knicks FO offseason moves has reduce the 2021-22 season into a 30 win season.
The Knicks really needed the 19th pick for the upcoming season.
Please, someone convince me what the heck did Kemba Walker & Evan Fournier performance do in Boston's 5 game playoff series to make the next NBA team want their services? They both were BUMS & LOSERS that showed each postseason game they were not ready for the playoff level of the NBA !!!

Take a deep breath and imagine Kemba doing this for us

SupremeCommander wrote:I really hate that we traded the #19 for two seconds in 2026 or whatever it is

But, I like the draft class, we upgraded two starters, we brought most of the band back together, and I love Kemba so…

Yeah, I have shifted my opinion on the offseason

It will he traded again before it’s ever used.

Philc1 wrote:I evaluate offseasons based on whether the starting 5 is upgraded. Based on below Id say yes

Starting 5:

PG: Kemba
SG: RJ
SF: Fournier
PF: Randle
C: Mitch

Yes and our bench is much improved too.

C: Nerlens Noel.
PF: Obi Toppin.
SF: Alec Burks.
SG: Immanuel Quickley.
PG: Derrick Rose.

That's disgusting man.

All 5 of Rose/Quickley/Burks/Obi/Nerlens will have more team experience and better chemistry during year #2 under coach Thibs too.

Both McBride and Grimes should give us more heart and hustle than Elfrid/Frank too.

And more importantly Julius Randle at only 26-27 now has the potential to out up MVP production because not only were his numbers damn near identical to MVP Jokić last year but he became the first NBA player to average over 20/10/5/+.400% from 3 since Larry Bird's MVP season. Julius had a bad playoff series vs. ATL but his 2020 season was even greater than most realize.

Kemba Walker is the X-Factor. 4x All-Star and led Boston to the ECF 2019-2020 as their starting PG. He's also a Trae Young killer (4-1 @ .800% against him). Kemba is not only going to take pressure off of Julius Randle but he's also going to make sure both R.J. Barrett flourishes and Mitchell Robinson FEASTS.

With both Kemba Walker/Mitchell Robinson as starters (at full strength) and with Derrick Rose back to the bench as our sparkplug? We're much better than ATL.

SupremeCommander wrote:

Kemet wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I really hate that we traded the #19 for two seconds in 2026 or whatever it is

But, I like the draft class, we upgraded two starters, we brought most of the band back together, and I love Kemba so…

Yeah, I have shifted my opinion on the offseason

Well, Leon Rose and company has showed to be a interim president/GM for the Covid-19 season.
They have to GO! The Knicks FO offseason moves has reduce the 2021-22 season into a 30 win season.
The Knicks really needed the 19th pick for the upcoming season.
Please, someone convince me what the heck did Kemba Walker & Evan Fournier performance do in Boston's 5 game playoff series to make the next NBA team want their services? They both were BUMS & LOSERS that showed each postseason game they were not ready for the playoff level of the NBA !!!

Take a deep breath and imagine Kemba doing this for us

I wanted Kemba out of college- i thought he was a very big time cold blooded winner.

Here is the biggest problem I have- we kinda got lucky with Kemba. And maybe we knew he was going to be released. Maybe we worked behind the scenes to know that or make it happen. Maybe Fournier was part of a Kemba package.

As it stands now, things look pretty good. I want to be optimistic.

Fournier is an upgrade over Bullock, but it’s a lot of money and I think we over paid.

I would have liked to go after a player like Ball and be building for the next 5 years- meaning adding a potential star that was the same age as IQ, RJ, et al. But no long term contracts, thank god, and we are built for today.

I don’t think this is a championship contender. Kemba, Rose are two old, too many miles.

Hopefully we get back to the play offs, get past the first round this time. I don’t know we can ask for more.

NYKMentality wrote:

Philc1 wrote:I evaluate offseasons based on whether the starting 5 is upgraded. Based on below Id say yes

Starting 5:

PG: Kemba
SG: RJ
SF: Fournier
PF: Randle
C: Mitch

Yes and our bench is much improved too.

C: Nerlens Noel.
PF: Obi Toppin.
SF: Alec Burks.
SG: Immanuel Quickley.
PG: Derrick Rose.

That's disgusting man.

All 5 of Rose/Quickley/Burks/Obi/Nerlens will have more team experience and better chemistry during year #2 under coach Thibs too.

Both McBride and Grimes should give us more heart and hustle than Elfrid/Frank too.

And more importantly Julius Randle at only 26-27 now has the potential to out up MVP production because not only were his numbers damn near identical to MVP Jokić last year but he became the first NBA player to average over 20/10/5/+.400% from 3 since Larry Bird's MVP season. Julius had a bad playoff series vs. ATL but his 2020 season was even greater than most realize.

Kemba Walker is the X-Factor. 4x All-Star and led Boston to the ECF 2019-2020 as their starting PG. He's also a Trae Young killer (4-1 @ .800% against him). Kemba is not only going to take pressure off of Julius Randle but he's also going to make sure both R.J. Barrett flourishes and Mitchell Robinson FEASTS.

With both Kemba Walker/Mitchell Robinson as starters (at full strength) and with Derrick Rose back to the bench as our sparkplug? We're much better than ATL.

We significantly upgraded at both PG and SF. Maintained long term cap flexibility. I also still don’t think a superstar in 2022 is out of possibility tho it be would likely have to involve a sign and trade with Randle and/or Mitch

I’m more concerned with staying relevant than beating the hawks. Who knows if we even bump into them next playoffs

For me the most important thing to remember is that there wasn’t even a theoretical path to getting the Knicks to the level of the Bucks or Nets this offseason. Admitting that fact- I think Leon Rose and company had a brilliant offseason.

The starting 5 is clearly better. Fournier is a much more dynamic offensive player than Bullock and Kemba is in a different category than Payton. Coupled with a (hopefully) healthy Mitch and you’ve got a tough starting 5.

I think the bench is now top 5 in the league and it’s set up to give IQ and Obi the chance to continue to improve. Heck, we have interesting young guys like Grimes and McBride who will be lucky to see the floor this year.

And perhaps most important- the roster construction kept the long term plan intact. We still have our draft assets and none of the contracts will hamstring us beyond the next two years. If healthy, I think every contract on the books is tradeable if need be. The one big decision that I’m on the fence on is whether to commit long term to Julius on a max deal. Is he the centerpiece for the long term?

There seems to be an attitude among a lot of fans these days that you either have a championship contender or you tank. As a 53 year old who’s endured too many unwatchable regular seasons I don’t get that opinion. Give me a competitive team that I can watch all season and I’ll be happy for now. Then If the young guys develop into stars you might have a chance to fight for that championship. Looking forward to a fun year…

FrenchFreak wrote:For me the most important thing to remember is that there wasn’t even a theoretical path to getting the Knicks to the level of the Bucks or Nets this offseason. Admitting that fact- I think Leon Rose and company had a brilliant offseason.

The starting 5 is clearly better. Fournier is a much more dynamic offensive player than Bullock and Kemba is in a different category than Payton. Coupled with a (hopefully) healthy Mitch and you’ve got a tough starting 5.

I think the bench is now top 5 in the league and it’s set up to give IQ and Obi the chance to continue to improve. Heck, we have interesting young guys like Grimes and McBride who will be lucky to see the floor this year.

And perhaps most important- the roster construction kept the long term plan intact. We still have our draft assets and none of the contracts will hamstring us beyond the next two years. If healthy, I think every contract on the books is tradeable if need be. The one big decision that I’m on the fence on is whether to commit long term to Julius on a max deal. Is he the centerpiece for the long term?

There seems to be an attitude among a lot of fans these days that you either have a championship contender or you tank. As a 53 year old who’s endured too many unwatchable regular seasons I don’t get that opinion. Give me a competitive team that I can watch all season and I’ll be happy for now. Then If the young guys develop into stars you might have a chance to fight for that championship. Looking forward to a fun year…

My son texted me that Julius just got a 4 year extension about two minutes after I posted this. I guess we’re going to find out if he’s a long term centerpiece. He could be even better with good point guards around him if he wants to be.

BigDaddyG wrote:They took care of all the teams immediate needs. No complaints from me

still want a stretch big....but this was an efficient off season done smoothly and swiftly.

Now we can comfortable watch summer league and see what we have in these rookies knowing we won't have to rely on them

Okay, now things make a little more sense. I wasn’t for Kemba, but on a contract like this he is a great catch. We knew we were going to a win now mode and if nothing else, the roster is really nice filled in all positions. Randle’s extension is a great thing because he’s certainly worth more than that. But I would not rule out an attempt at some serious trade during the season. I’m pretty sure the FO will try to bring in Beal or someone like that.

martin wrote:

That's awesome.

martin wrote:

But we got hosed in the KP trade!

It was one of the best moves ever - I was on board trading him when it wasn't popular. Don't know if Phil Jacksons trade & subsequent moves would have paid off better, but we sure did well with that move and subsequent moves - a change from when we were trading picks away for Eddy Curry & his ilk!