Knicks · Bullish on Deuce (page 45)

blkexec wrote:Deuce is the real deal. Best two way guard on the team. And since a rookie was top 5 guard defender in the nba. Now that he’s turned the corner from a mid range shooter to a deadly off ball and on ball 3 pt shooter.

People used to comp him to Marcus Smart. Am I crazy to say that he's already better than that?

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:Deuce is the real deal. Best two way guard on the team. And since a rookie was top 5 guard defender in the nba. Now that he’s turned the corner from a mid range shooter to a deadly off ball and on ball 3 pt shooter.

People used to comp him to Marcus Smart. Am I crazy to say that he's already better than that?

I believe he surpassed him already. Just missing the playoffs and/or championship experience. But on pure talent alone yes.

Deuce Mania!!!
Peak Smart got him a 20mil contract and had leadership qualities not always measured on the stat sheet. None of us really watched that Boston team like we watch nearly all of knick games. I'd say Smart still had better playmaking/handle qualities.

Fact is I doubt we have seen peak Deuce yet. What is his future? What is his value? I think we all a bit enamored with our guy so its hart to gauge properly. Is he a starter on another team similar to IQ? At some point we need to pay him or trade him.
This is really not an issue for two more years after this one but it may come up next summer as he heads into his last year (He in year one of a three year deal) and if he intends to test his market then its a thing.

But......Players come and go as do picks. No need to pigeon hole him as a knick forever nor worry. Just enjoy the glory of his game and were he takes us.

Debbie downer. You're already talking about trading him?

Nalod wrote:Deuce Mania!!!
Peak Smart got him a 20mil contract and had leadership qualities not always measured on the stat sheet. None of us really watched that Boston team like we watch nearly all of knick games. I'd say Smart still had better playmaking/handle qualities.

Fact is I doubt we have seen peak Deuce yet. What is his future? What is his value? I think we all a bit enamored with our guy so its hart to gauge properly. Is he a starter on another team similar to IQ? At some point we need to pay him or trade him.
This is really not an issue for two more years after this one but it may come up next summer as he heads into his last year (He in year one of a three year deal) and if he intends to test his market then its a thing.

But......Players come and go as do picks. No need to pigeon hole him as a knick forever nor worry. Just enjoy the glory of his game and were he takes us.

Why are we comparing peek smart to current deuce? For me when I said he passed smart, I was talk current smart just an fyi. I was in the boat of adding smart a while ago but since deuce passed him, it’s a mute point now. Right now I rather deuce grow with PT off the bench (learning from JB and Payne) vs sitting behind smart taking notes again.

Peek smart comparison is great bar room talk that I personally don’t care too much about. You think smart is better? Ok. I’m enjoying our home grown talent in deuce (hand picked by Thibs). Watching him develop has been great. But just being in the same conversation as a well respected two way championship player in smart is a win for deuce in my book.

The biggest change in Deuce’s game lately is his willingness to take it to the rim. Gets us to the line, puts the other team in foul trouble. He’s also shooting like he did, pre-injury. Doesn’t look tentative anymore.

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:Deuce Mania!!!
Peak Smart got him a 20mil contract and had leadership qualities not always measured on the stat sheet. None of us really watched that Boston team like we watch nearly all of knick games. I'd say Smart still had better playmaking/handle qualities.

Fact is I doubt we have seen peak Deuce yet. What is his future? What is his value? I think we all a bit enamored with our guy so its hart to gauge properly. Is he a starter on another team similar to IQ? At some point we need to pay him or trade him.
This is really not an issue for two more years after this one but it may come up next summer as he heads into his last year (He in year one of a three year deal) and if he intends to test his market then its a thing.

But......Players come and go as do picks. No need to pigeon hole him as a knick forever nor worry. Just enjoy the glory of his game and were he takes us.

Why are we comparing peek smart to current deuce? For me when I said he passed smart, I was talk current smart just an fyi. I was in the boat of adding smart a while ago but since deuce passed him, it’s a mute point now. Right now I rather deuce grow with PT off the bench (learning from JB and Payne) vs sitting behind smart taking notes again.

Peek smart comparison is great bar room talk that I personally don’t care too much about. You think smart is better? Ok. I’m enjoying our home grown talent in deuce (hand picked by Thibs). Watching him develop has been great. But just being in the same conversation as a well respected two way championship player in smart is a win for deuce in my book.

Oh my. I did not read your comment as "current Smart". Given Marcus of injured status last few years it sort of a given Deuce has surpassed him. I'd even say deuce is a better shooter than Marcus. What Short was, a clutch team leader and former DPOY might still be there if he can get on the floor and stay there.
FYI, short team fell short to Warriors in the 2022 finals. Not a championship winning player.

I don't know who scouted Deuce but make no bones I have enjoyed his ascent and that shot is money! Unless Smarts shooting has improved I don't doubt you assertion.

Like many young studs he has polish his game and not try to jump over dudes in the lane. Love the in traffic dunks but they are hell on the body!

Hell, FWIW, yeah, let's compare current Deuce to peak Smart. I'd like to hear thoughts.
Where does Deuce fit on the rankings of best defensive backcourt player of 2024-25? Compare to SGA, Dillon Brooks, Suggs, Jrue Holiday, etc?
How does current Deuce's defense compare with peak Smart defense?
As a scorer I don't think there is any comparison.
Not sure about Smart's floor generalship. I think this is where Deuce is lacking

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:Deuce is the real deal. Best two way guard on the team. And since a rookie was top 5 guard defender in the nba. Now that he’s turned the corner from a mid range shooter to a deadly off ball and on ball 3 pt shooter.

People used to comp him to Marcus Smart. Am I crazy to say that he's already better than that?

I believe he surpassed him already. Just missing the playoffs and/or championship experience. But on pure talent alone yes.

dude... I love the enthusiasm but Smart is a former DPOY. Like he won it. McBride is regarded as good defender. I dont think he's ever been mentioned as elite by NBA standards.

This was the time in Smart's career he started getting top 10 in DPOY votes. So if you wanna go there I think McBride is obviously a better shooter, but he's just not the defender Smart was at the same time. Not yet. God I hope he gets there. McBride's knee has really slowed him this year. He looks like he's getting back to where he was last year which will be huge for us.

Smart was like a mini-OG for a 5 year stretch. He defended the best guard/wing on your team and could switch on bigs (somehow) effectively. Dude was an utter menace on that side of the ball. If he could shoot and play PG I am guessing Boston wins a couple titles during those runs.

I think everyone had expected a bit more from Deuce this year but that has obviously been tempered by injuries. He is starting to get his mojo going and we shall see what he does in that 6th man role and beyond.

He'll need a couple of weeks to months to really show his stuff. Could be a starting and near elite POA defender and spacer; Deuce will be a tad undersized in the SG role as a potential starter next to Brunson but he most definitely makes up for it in toughness and wingspan. His handle is better but good defenders can give him trouble and he can be slowed, I can't tell if that confidence or skill related. He is a willing ball mover but maybe not really a facilitator and setup player, Deuce seems limited in this decision making area. His rim decisions on offense are strange, seems like he just wants to jam the rim instead of making the easier lay in or pass, could just be feeling his oats on those. He is a stout team player, willing to do anything.

He is obviously a very hard worker, so for me that means the sky is the limit within his talent and effort level.

Poor mans Jrue Holiday

martin wrote:I think everyone had expected a bit more from Deuce this year but that has obviously been tempered by injuries. He is starting to get his mojo going and we shall see what he does in that 6th man role and beyond.

He'll need a couple of weeks to months to really show his stuff. Could be a starting and near elite POA defender and spacer; Deuce will be a tad undersized in the SG role as a potential starter next to Brunson but he most definitely makes up for it in toughness and wingspan. His handle is better but good defenders can give him trouble and he can be slowed, I can't tell if that confidence or skill related. He is a willing ball mover but maybe not really a facilitator and setup player, Deuce seems limited in this decision making area. His rim decisions on offense are strange, seems like he just wants to jam the rim instead of making the easier lay in or pass, could just be feeling his oats on those. He is a stout team player, willing to do anything.

He is obviously a very hard worker, so for me that means the sky is the limit within his talent and effort level.

PG skills and handle are his biggest areas for improvement. If he was better off the dribble it would really help. When he's healthy I view him as a 30mph 6th man. I'm a big McBride fan. Part of the minutes police annoyance is McBride has been hurt most of the year. He's a huge part of our depth.

He isnt in the Jrue/Smart tier of defenders yet. Those guys are strong enough to switch on bigs. Didnt Jrue guard LAT a few times on the switch? I think Deuce is a very strong aggressive defenser at the point of attack and can defend big PGs well like Haliburton for example. He can struggle a little when guys speed down hill like Maxey or dribble him all around the court like TJ. He is very high level.

Btw take Deuce vs Davion Mitchell. Davion is playing well this year, but a lot of ups and downs in his career and Deuce is the better player taken 20 something picks later.

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:Deuce is the real deal. Best two way guard on the team. And since a rookie was top 5 guard defender in the nba. Now that he’s turned the corner from a mid range shooter to a deadly off ball and on ball 3 pt shooter.

People used to comp him to Marcus Smart. Am I crazy to say that he's already better than that?

I believe he surpassed him already. Just missing the playoffs and/or championship experience. But on pure talent alone yes.

dude... I love the enthusiasm but Smart is a former DPOY. Like he won it. McBride is regarded as good defender. I dont think he's ever been mentioned as elite by NBA standards.

This was the time in Smart's career he started getting top 10 in DPOY votes. So if you wanna go there I think McBride is obviously a better shooter, but he's just not the defender Smart was at the same time. Not yet. God I hope he gets there. McBride's knee has really slowed him this year. He looks like he's getting back to where he was last year which will be huge for us.

Smart was like a mini-OG for a 5 year stretch. He defended the best guard/wing on your team and could switch on bigs (somehow) effectively. Dude was an utter menace on that side of the ball. If he could shoot and play PG I am guessing Boston wins a couple titles during those runs.

So you rather have Smart than Deuce? OK. I rather have Deuce right now, than Smart right now. Thats all I'm saying.

Career wise, thats a conversation I dont care about. Right now, it's Deuce all day.

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:Deuce is the real deal. Best two way guard on the team. And since a rookie was top 5 guard defender in the nba. Now that he’s turned the corner from a mid range shooter to a deadly off ball and on ball 3 pt shooter.

People used to comp him to Marcus Smart. Am I crazy to say that he's already better than that?

I believe he surpassed him already. Just missing the playoffs and/or championship experience. But on pure talent alone yes.

dude... I love the enthusiasm but Smart is a former DPOY. Like he won it. McBride is regarded as good defender. I dont think he's ever been mentioned as elite by NBA standards.

This was the time in Smart's career he started getting top 10 in DPOY votes. So if you wanna go there I think McBride is obviously a better shooter, but he's just not the defender Smart was at the same time. Not yet. God I hope he gets there. McBride's knee has really slowed him this year. He looks like he's getting back to where he was last year which will be huge for us.

Smart was like a mini-OG for a 5 year stretch. He defended the best guard/wing on your team and could switch on bigs (somehow) effectively. Dude was an utter menace on that side of the ball. If he could shoot and play PG I am guessing Boston wins a couple titles during those runs.

So you rather have Smart than Deuce? OK. I rather have Deuce right now, than Smart right now. Thats all I'm saying.

Career wise, thats a conversation I dont care about. Right now, it's Deuce all day.

fishmike was obviously talking about Prime Smart but you are talking about Right Now Smart.

It's tough when you switch apples for oranges.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:Deuce is the real deal. Best two way guard on the team. And since a rookie was top 5 guard defender in the nba. Now that he’s turned the corner from a mid range shooter to a deadly off ball and on ball 3 pt shooter.

People used to comp him to Marcus Smart. Am I crazy to say that he's already better than that?

I believe he surpassed him already. Just missing the playoffs and/or championship experience. But on pure talent alone yes.

dude... I love the enthusiasm but Smart is a former DPOY. Like he won it. McBride is regarded as good defender. I dont think he's ever been mentioned as elite by NBA standards.

This was the time in Smart's career he started getting top 10 in DPOY votes. So if you wanna go there I think McBride is obviously a better shooter, but he's just not the defender Smart was at the same time. Not yet. God I hope he gets there. McBride's knee has really slowed him this year. He looks like he's getting back to where he was last year which will be huge for us.

Smart was like a mini-OG for a 5 year stretch. He defended the best guard/wing on your team and could switch on bigs (somehow) effectively. Dude was an utter menace on that side of the ball. If he could shoot and play PG I am guessing Boston wins a couple titles during those runs.

So you rather have Smart than Deuce? OK. I rather have Deuce right now, than Smart right now. Thats all I'm saying.

Career wise, thats a conversation I dont care about. Right now, it's Deuce all day.

fishmike was obviously talking about Prime Smart but you are talking about Right Now Smart.

It's tough when you switch apples for oranges.

yeah also prefer McBride over Kobe cause Kobe is dead. Why are we comparing McBride to a guy in his 30s slow by injuries?

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:Deuce is the real deal. Best two way guard on the team. And since a rookie was top 5 guard defender in the nba. Now that he’s turned the corner from a mid range shooter to a deadly off ball and on ball 3 pt shooter.

People used to comp him to Marcus Smart. Am I crazy to say that he's already better than that?

I believe he surpassed him already. Just missing the playoffs and/or championship experience. But on pure talent alone yes.

dude... I love the enthusiasm but Smart is a former DPOY. Like he won it. McBride is regarded as good defender. I dont think he's ever been mentioned as elite by NBA standards.

This was the time in Smart's career he started getting top 10 in DPOY votes. So if you wanna go there I think McBride is obviously a better shooter, but he's just not the defender Smart was at the same time. Not yet. God I hope he gets there. McBride's knee has really slowed him this year. He looks like he's getting back to where he was last year which will be huge for us.

Smart was like a mini-OG for a 5 year stretch. He defended the best guard/wing on your team and could switch on bigs (somehow) effectively. Dude was an utter menace on that side of the ball. If he could shoot and play PG I am guessing Boston wins a couple titles during those runs.

So you rather have Smart than Deuce? OK. I rather have Deuce right now, than Smart right now. Thats all I'm saying.

Career wise, thats a conversation I dont care about. Right now, it's Deuce all day.

fishmike was obviously talking about Prime Smart but you are talking about Right Now Smart.

It's tough when you switch apples for oranges.

yeah also prefer McBride over Kobe cause Kobe is dead. Why are we comparing McBride to a guy in his 30s slow by injuries?

I don’t know why you are comparing them. Might try asking the guy who compared them. I just agreed with him. I’m taking deuce over smart. I’ve said it for the 4th time if you or whoever wants to compare their careers, continue to have that bar room talk. I don’t care about that. I care about the here and now. Smart would be a great coach I’m sure but I’m not interested in him.

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:Deuce is the real deal. Best two way guard on the team. And since a rookie was top 5 guard defender in the nba. Now that he’s turned the corner from a mid range shooter to a deadly off ball and on ball 3 pt shooter.

People used to comp him to Marcus Smart. Am I crazy to say that he's already better than that?

I believe he surpassed him already. Just missing the playoffs and/or championship experience. But on pure talent alone yes.

Hey fish….you late and behind.

If you are so interested in the smart discussion, start here. Always go back to the source when jumping into a discussion. So I’ll help you out. Have at it.