I admit I'm the first guy to criticize people that get too high on rookies that haven't proven anything in the league. I generally find it ridiculous that fans think they know more than the coach about how soon a player is ready to start especially when the fans have seen only small samples. I was not on board with all the start Toney Douglas, start Jerian Grant, start Ntilikina threads. I laughed when posters said they wouldn't trade Channing Frye for Kevin Garnett. I'm not even considering that Rokubatis will make it to the big league. If he does, great, but I'm not counting on it.
But I'm going to hang my ass out there and say there is something I really like about McBride. The kid passes the eye test. At least my eye test. Yes, in small samples. But to me, he has "it". The very "it" that deer-in-the-headlights Ntilikina was SO far from ever possessing. He has grit, and confidence, and a multifaceted game. He can handle, shoot, and pass. To what levels, remains to be seen. Defends like the Tasmanian Devil. But I'm on board. Happy to eat crow in 4 years if I'm wrong, but I don't think I will be.
I fully expect him to pass IQ on the chart for PG. To me, IQ is more on the SG side of combo guard, than PG. But I'll be thrilled to see them paired up as a dynamic explosive back court.
Panos@ 12/4/2021 10:52 AM
Consider this thread my version of fishy's famous Ntilikina thread. Have at it.
EwingsGlass@ 12/4/2021 11:01 AM
Panos wrote:I admit I'm the first guy to criticize people that get too high on rookies that haven't proven anything in the league. I generally find it ridiculous that fans think they know more than the coach about how soon a player is ready to start especially when the fans have seen only small samples. I was not on board with all the start Toney Douglas, start Jerian Grant, start Ntilikina threads. I laughed when posters said they wouldn't trade Channing Frye for Kevin Garnett. I'm not even considering that Rokubatis will make it to the big league. If he does, great, but I'm not counting on it.
But I'm going to hang my ass out there and say there is something I really like about McBride. The kid passes the eye test. At least my eye test. Yes, in small samples. But to me, he has "it". The very "it" that deer-in-the-headlights Ntilikina was SO far from ever possessing. He has grit, and confidence, and a multifaceted game. He can handle, shoot, and pass. To what levels, remains to be seen. Defends like the Tasmanian Devil. But I'm on board. Happy to eat crow in 4 years if I'm wrong, but I don't think I will be.
I fully expect him to pass IQ on the chart for PG. To me, IQ is more on the SG side of combo guard, than PG. But I'll be thrilled to see them paired up as a dynamic explosive back court.
So, from a visual inspection of a young player, I wholeheartedly agree. He has all the characteristics you want in a young PG. I had him at 21 in many of our pre draft wish lists. The next question - the next hurdle - is what he does with the time he gets on the court.
The mention of grit is key to this. That mental toughness will allow him to have a bad game and not get lost. Knox seems to be missing this despite so many positive attributes.
Panos@ 12/4/2021 11:05 AM
I'll also say that I'm higher on McBride than Grimes.
LivingLegend@ 12/4/2021 11:15 AM
I have no concerns with McBrides defense, shooting or make-up —- those all look top notch.
I do however question if he has the quickness, handle and explosion to pressure the paint consistently. Also not sure on his vision or passing ability in terms of those being above avg. for a top notch nba pg.
That said I want both Duece / QG to get minutes but don’t expect Thibs to grant my wishes.
TheGame@ 12/4/2021 11:39 AM
McBride has looked like an Allstar in the G League. It has yet to be determined whether he can maintain similar numbers in the NBA, but his defense should be top notch, at the very least. In summer league, McBride looked better than Quickley in my opinion. McBride probably rides the bench most of this season until Feb, but the Knicks will likely trade Kemba soon and will then start giving McBride a few minutes a game.
Knixkik@ 12/4/2021 11:42 AM
He should be an excellent backup PG for this team for a long time.
Clean@ 12/4/2021 11:50 AM
LivingLegend wrote:I have no concerns with McBrides defense, shooting or make-up —- those all look top notch.
I do however question if he has the quickness, handle and explosion to pressure the paint consistently. Also not sure on his vision or passing ability in terms of those being above avg. for a top notch nba pg.
That said I want both Duece / QG to get minutes but don’t expect Thibs to grant my wishes.
I almost never give opinions on who we should draft because I don't usually watch too much College ball but once I saw this kids draft videos and did more looking at his games he was the one I wanted at our pick in the 1st round. He has everything except a quick 1st step. During his summer workouts he was doing drills to improve on that. He seems to be better at it in the G League. He also uses his good mid range game to help out if he can't make it directly to the hoop. You can see that in his G League highlights where he stops short and hit the simple mid range shot. One thing we also have not seen yet is he is really good at posting up guards. I doubt if we will see that much in the NBA due to him deferring to our big names but it is something he has in his toolkit.
martin@ 12/4/2021 5:08 PM
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1467230576839213059?s=20
Panos wrote:I admit I'm the first guy to criticize people that get too high on rookies that haven't proven anything in the league. I generally find it ridiculous that fans think they know more than the coach about how soon a player is ready to start especially when the fans have seen only small samples. I was not on board with all the start Toney Douglas, start Jerian Grant, start Ntilikina threads. I laughed when posters said they wouldn't trade Channing Frye for Kevin Garnett. I'm not even considering that Rokubatis will make it to the big league. If he does, great, but I'm not counting on it.
But I'm going to hang my ass out there and say there is something I really like about McBride. The kid passes the eye test. At least my eye test. Yes, in small samples. But to me, he has "it". The very "it" that deer-in-the-headlights Ntilikina was SO far from ever possessing. He has grit, and confidence, and a multifaceted game. He can handle, shoot, and pass. To what levels, remains to be seen. Defends like the Tasmanian Devil. But I'm on board. Happy to eat crow in 4 years if I'm wrong, but I don't think I will be.
I fully expect him to pass IQ on the chart for PG. To me, IQ is more on the SG side of combo guard, than PG. But I'll be thrilled to see them paired up as a dynamic explosive back court.
Great post!! Deuce is definitely the best pg prospect on this roster. Defensively, he's tenacious, doesn't take a play off, and can guard 94 feet. He's strong, and has long arms which allows him to play the passing lane. I think he can have a Caruso-like effect on the defensive end in terms of being a disruptor.
Offensively, one of his best attributes is his mid-range game. It's sort of a go-to move when he can't get all the way to the rack, or when he needs a bucket. He's not an elite passer, and he won't pass his teammates-open too often, but that's on the scouting report for most young pg's with the exception of the elite few.
I' am in total agreement you. I hope we can get him into the rotation!!!
Uptown@ 12/4/2021 5:35 PM
Panos wrote:I'll also say that I'm higher on McBride than Grimes.
Same
Grimes has a nice looking shot and he hustles on D but I think Deuce can impact the game in more ways
LivingLegend@ 12/4/2021 6:22 PM
Clean wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:I have no concerns with McBrides defense, shooting or make-up —- those all look top notch.
I do however question if he has the quickness, handle and explosion to pressure the paint consistently. Also not sure on his vision or passing ability in terms of those being above avg. for a top notch nba pg.
That said I want both Duece / QG to get minutes but don’t expect Thibs to grant my wishes.
I almost never give opinions on who we should draft because I don't usually watch too much College ball but once I saw this kids draft videos and did more looking at his games he was the one I wanted at our pick in the 1st round. He has everything except a quick 1st step. During his summer workouts he was doing drills to improve on that. He seems to be better at it in the G League. He also uses his good mid range game to help out if he can't make it directly to the hoop. You can see that in his G League highlights where he stops short and hit the simple mid range shot. One thing we also have not seen yet is he is really good at posting up guards. I doubt if we will see that much in the NBA due to him deferring to our big names but it is something he has in his toolkit.
Agree with most everything you state but the except quick 1st step is the one that worries me. I tend to think his mid range use is partially due to an ability to blow by his defender.
Above stated - I really really am rooting for all our kids. I exclude Mitch here because I just don’t want to rely on D only players who have shown zero offensive development in +3 years. Add in low IQ and constant injuries, condition issues for Mitch.
Still hoping for good things from RJ, IQ, Obi, Grimes and Deuce.
LivingLegend@ 12/4/2021 6:25 PM
martin wrote:
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1467230576839213059?s=20
Samanic is highly skilled and very versatile on offense BUT he often looks beyond dazed/confused defensively —- sometimes even disinterested. Not sure if I’m imagining the D issues but I could see giving him <3 seconds before yanking him for defensive lapse.
martin@ 12/4/2021 6:45 PM
LivingLegend wrote:
martin wrote:
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1467230576839213059?s=20
Samanic is highly skilled and very versatile on offense BUT he often looks beyond dazed/confused defensively —- sometimes even disinterested. Not sure if I’m imagining the D issues but I could see giving him <3 seconds before yanking him for defensive lapse.
We call that move "The Obi"
awe1028@ 12/4/2021 8:49 PM
I have to say the OG is right on the money. Deuce just has IT.
I tell you something else I know Thibs won't do it and most of you won't agree with me on this but if Thibs wants to turn this team around he needs to start Deuce and Grimes.
If you look at Thibs' history he only wins with certain types of players -gritty grimey get in your face on D types
He had that in Chitown and we saw what he did there.
He goes to Minnesota with a bunch of primadonnas and we saw what happened to him there.
He then comes to the Knicks last year where he had a collection of hard nosed players and again he was successful.
This year we brought in Fournier and Kemba and the team has struggled.
Deuce and Grimes are the only guards on the roster that play that rugged gritty type of defense that Thibs likes. Of course as rookies they will make mistakes.
But I think they are still his best chance to turn this thing around.
LivingLegend@ 12/5/2021 11:47 AM
martin wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
martin wrote:
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1467230576839213059?s=20
Samanic is highly skilled and very versatile on offense BUT he often looks beyond dazed/confused defensively —- sometimes even disinterested. Not sure if I’m imagining the D issues but I could see giving him <3 seconds before yanking him for defensive lapse.
We call that move "The Obi"
LOL - true - Randle dogs it & misses rotations left ‘ right with zero repercussions & if Obi breathes wrong he gone.
SO FRUSTRATING
Philc1@ 12/5/2021 11:53 AM
LivingLegend wrote:
martin wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
martin wrote:
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1467230576839213059?s=20
Samanic is highly skilled and very versatile on offense BUT he often looks beyond dazed/confused defensively —- sometimes even disinterested. Not sure if I’m imagining the D issues but I could see giving him <3 seconds before yanking him for defensive lapse.
We call that move "The Obi"
LOL - true - Randle dogs it & misses rotations left ‘ right with zero repercussions & if Obi breathes wrong he gone.
SO FRUSTRATING
Which is why we shouldn’t have panicked and extended Randle long term last summer
Maybe we can trade Randle for Westbrook straight up with the Lakers. That trade would help both teams
Nalod@ 12/5/2021 1:19 PM
Philc1 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
martin wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
martin wrote:
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1467230576839213059?s=20
Samanic is highly skilled and very versatile on offense BUT he often looks beyond dazed/confused defensively —- sometimes even disinterested. Not sure if I’m imagining the D issues but I could see giving him <3 seconds before yanking him for defensive lapse.
We call that move "The Obi"
LOL - true - Randle dogs it & misses rotations left ‘ right with zero repercussions & if Obi breathes wrong he gone.
SO FRUSTRATING
Which is why we shouldn’t have panicked and extended Randle long term last summer
Maybe we can trade Randle for Westbrook straight up with the Lakers. That trade would help both teams
We panicked?
To add to the lack of thought you gave, what does Lakers want with Randle? How does it help them win? Might want to respect this group by at least looking at the salary differential. Your only off by 23million. Seriously. Westbrook makes 44mil. Randle makes 21. Next year he makes 26mm. At that price we are not paying for a savior. Thats borderline allstar money. Today that would be good or 46th highest salary. Next year I can see that even being higher. Randle is not making anywhere close to Vet max money.
martin@ 12/5/2021 2:08 PM
Panos wrote:I fully expect him to pass IQ on the chart for PG. To me, IQ is more on the SG side of combo guard, than PG. But I'll be thrilled to see them paired up as a dynamic explosive back court.
100% and he is getting better at PG duties.
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/_analyKnicks/status/1467185392113930244?s=20
Panos wrote:I admit I'm the first guy to criticize people that get too high on rookies that haven't proven anything in the league. I generally find it ridiculous that fans think they know more than the coach about how soon a player is ready to start especially when the fans have seen only small samples. I was not on board with all the start Toney Douglas, start Jerian Grant, start Ntilikina threads. I laughed when posters said they wouldn't trade Channing Frye for Kevin Garnett. I'm not even considering that Rokubatis will make it to the big league. If he does, great, but I'm not counting on it.
I'm 100% convinced Rokubatis will make it to NBA and be a good rotation player at a minimum.
Don't discount him; the metrics and stats etc are way different or should be looked at through a different lens than what we expect when looking at kids in college or the GLeague.
I think if you asked a Euro scout and a GLeague scout to give their takes on Rokus/Deuce, both would be equally pumped about their respective prospects in the NBA.
BigDaddyG@ 12/5/2021 2:31 PM
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:I fully expect him to pass IQ on the chart for PG. To me, IQ is more on the SG side of combo guard, than PG. But I'll be thrilled to see them paired up as a dynamic explosive back court.
100% and he is getting better at PG duties.
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/_analyKnicks/status/1467185392113930244?s=20
I view them both as combos and honestly, I could see them sharing a backcourt. Deuce is strong, with a good wingspan. He could cover two guards if needed. The only question I have with Deuce is his ability to get to the rim. He can get in the paint, especially when he's downhill, but he settles for too many jumpers in the midrange. Perhaps he can carve out a Sam Cassell type niche?
