Knicks · This isn't about "Obi Toppin vs. Julius Randle". (page 2)

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Obi was trash tonight

Was Obi trash? Or did Obi just show you who he is and you’re in denial?

Players are trash when reality doesn’t exceed your expectations.

I saw it different. I thought Obi played like Obi. Except he was a starter with a different set of expectations. Look at his history since a little kid. He always comes in below expectations and eventually he comes into himself. He’s a late bloomer. Takes him time to adjust. Obi is fine for now.

My worry is grimes and duece. Can they bounce back with better shooting performances, especially grimes. I thought grimes was more like Allan Houston. But he might be more john Starks. And I don’t give out that label to anybody since starks is my favorite player growing up. But grimes hot and cold streaks and defensive energy reminds me of starks.

But Obi didn’t play like trash, he played mistake free basketball. He missed the same 3s as a starter, that he’s been missing all season off the bench.

I don't even know how folks can flat label Obi as not playing well. Not for nothing but he was the leader for the Knicks in +/-. He shot really poorly from the FT line, missed 1 3pt attempt.

He is a big who needs a PG to get him the ball in his spots. The Knicks didn't have that type of player for him to work with.

The problem for Obi right now is that those "SPOTS" are limited. He does not have a low block or elbow game. He does not have a mid-range catch-and-shoot game. He cannot shoot the three with any consistency. He struggles to create off the dribble. His game seems to be run the floor and get an alley-oop dunk. Perhaps he would do well in the PnR but that would take commitment by the Knicks to run plays for him at a large rate. Is he due that right now? Can he do more than roll? And how long would it take before teams make adjustments to that? STAT became really good a PnR only after developing a solid mid-range jumper to combat defenses from dropping on the pick.

Think Obi needs more than just a PG but rather an offensive system that likes to run transition and pushes the tempo. Problem is that that there might not be any NBA teams that run that. Unless Paul Westhead gets back into coaching. Feel Obi just needs to keep improving so that he can have a more diverse attack. Think with patience he will add to those "Spots"

But will definitely take a high-level PG, please!

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Obi was trash tonight

Was Obi trash? Or did Obi just show you who he is and you’re in denial?

Players are trash when reality doesn’t exceed your expectations.

I saw it different. I thought Obi played like Obi. Except he was a starter with a different set of expectations. Look at his history since a little kid. He always comes in below expectations and eventually he comes into himself. He’s a late bloomer. Takes him time to adjust. Obi is fine for now.

My worry is grimes and duece. Can they bounce back with better shooting performances, especially grimes. I thought grimes was more like Allan Houston. But he might be more john Starks. And I don’t give out that label to anybody since starks is my favorite player growing up. But grimes hot and cold streaks and defensive energy reminds me of starks.

But Obi didn’t play like trash, he played mistake free basketball. He missed the same 3s as a starter, that he’s been missing all season off the bench.

I don't even know how folks can flat label Obi as not playing well. Not for nothing but he was the leader for the Knicks in +/-. He shot really poorly from the FT line, missed 1 3pt attempt.

He is a big who needs a PG to get him the ball in his spots. The Knicks didn't have that type of player for him to work with.

The problem for Obi right now is that those "SPOTS" are limited. He does not have a low block or elbow game. He does not have a mid-range catch-and-shoot game. He cannot shoot the three with any consistency. He struggles to create off the dribble. His game seems to be run the floor and get an alley-oop dunk. Perhaps he would do well in the PnR but that would take commitment by the Knicks to run plays for him at a large rate. Is he due that right now? Can he do more than roll? And how long would it take before teams make adjustments to that? STAT became really good a PnR only after developing a solid mid-range jumper to combat defenses from dropping on the pick.

Think Obi needs more than just a PG but rather an offensive system that likes to run transition and pushes the tempo. Problem is that that there might not be any NBA teams that run that. Unless Paul Westhead gets back into coaching. Feel Obi just needs to keep improving so that he can have a more diverse attack. Think with patience he will add to those "Spots"

But will definitely take a high-level PG, please!

The worst part of it all is that (with the exception of Randle) our Big men are limited offensive players.

You can't run plays for OBI, Mitch ,noel or TAJ....mean while we face teams on a nightly basis that have 2 to 4 big men that shoot 3's.

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Obi was trash tonight

Was Obi trash? Or did Obi just show you who he is and you’re in denial?

Players are trash when reality doesn’t exceed your expectations.

I saw it different. I thought Obi played like Obi. Except he was a starter with a different set of expectations. Look at his history since a little kid. He always comes in below expectations and eventually he comes into himself. He’s a late bloomer. Takes him time to adjust. Obi is fine for now.

My worry is grimes and duece. Can they bounce back with better shooting performances, especially grimes. I thought grimes was more like Allan Houston. But he might be more john Starks. And I don’t give out that label to anybody since starks is my favorite player growing up. But grimes hot and cold streaks and defensive energy reminds me of starks.

But Obi didn’t play like trash, he played mistake free basketball. He missed the same 3s as a starter, that he’s been missing all season off the bench.

I don't even know how folks can flat label Obi as not playing well. Not for nothing but he was the leader for the Knicks in +/-. He shot really poorly from the FT line, missed 1 3pt attempt.

He is a big who needs a PG to get him the ball in his spots. The Knicks didn't have that type of player for him to work with.

The problem for Obi right now is that those "SPOTS" are limited. He does not have a low block or elbow game. He does not have a mid-range catch-and-shoot game. He cannot shoot the three with any consistency. He struggles to create off the dribble. His game seems to be run the floor and get an alley-oop dunk. Perhaps he would do well in the PnR but that would take commitment by the Knicks to run plays for him at a large rate. Is he due that right now? Can he do more than roll? And how long would it take before teams make adjustments to that? STAT became really good a PnR only after developing a solid mid-range jumper to combat defenses from dropping on the pick.

Think Obi needs more than just a PG but rather an offensive system that likes to run transition and pushes the tempo. Problem is that that there might not be any NBA teams that run that. Unless Paul Westhead gets back into coaching. Feel Obi just needs to keep improving so that he can have a more diverse attack. Think with patience he will add to those "Spots"

But will definitely take a high-level PG, please!

The worst part of it all is that (with the exception of Randle) our Big men are limited offensive players.

You can't run plays for OBI, Mitch ,noel or TAJ....mean while we face teams on a nightly basis that have 2 to 4 big men that shoot 3's.

Yup, I don’t see why we keep Mitch, Noel, and Taj. They are rebundant and hurt the team more by brining absolutely 0 offense, no matter how well their defense is.

Watching Toppin today we saw a post move (2nd half) jump hook that makes many of us say - do more of that. Maybe this will come in the future. Have to remember that while he's 23 - he's still somewhat adjusting to the pace, increased athleticism and size of the NBA players. If he could work on his handle, make a spot up 3 and improve to become an average defensive player - I do think he would be able to play as a 3 at times for us. His play style reminds me more of S.Marion than Amare. He is faster and yet isn't big enough to overpower/outjump in the way that Amare could. Either way he has such a positive +/- that we probably need to think more about getting him on the court with Randle (vs instead of). If we are committed to Randle than we would likely benefit from an outside shooting center (eg Luke Kornet type) to pull the opposing center away from the basket and open up the paint. I'd revisit a Mitch, #1 pick and Burks offer to GS for Wiseman as they were interested in Mitch right before they drafted Wiseman.

He is putting in the work

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HoustonSprewell84 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Obi was trash tonight

Was Obi trash? Or did Obi just show you who he is and you’re in denial?

Players are trash when reality doesn’t exceed your expectations.

I saw it different. I thought Obi played like Obi. Except he was a starter with a different set of expectations. Look at his history since a little kid. He always comes in below expectations and eventually he comes into himself. He’s a late bloomer. Takes him time to adjust. Obi is fine for now.

My worry is grimes and duece. Can they bounce back with better shooting performances, especially grimes. I thought grimes was more like Allan Houston. But he might be more john Starks. And I don’t give out that label to anybody since starks is my favorite player growing up. But grimes hot and cold streaks and defensive energy reminds me of starks.

But Obi didn’t play like trash, he played mistake free basketball. He missed the same 3s as a starter, that he’s been missing all season off the bench.

I don't even know how folks can flat label Obi as not playing well. Not for nothing but he was the leader for the Knicks in +/-. He shot really poorly from the FT line, missed 1 3pt attempt.

He is a big who needs a PG to get him the ball in his spots. The Knicks didn't have that type of player for him to work with.

The problem for Obi right now is that those "SPOTS" are limited. He does not have a low block or elbow game. He does not have a mid-range catch-and-shoot game. He cannot shoot the three with any consistency. He struggles to create off the dribble. His game seems to be run the floor and get an alley-oop dunk. Perhaps he would do well in the PnR but that would take commitment by the Knicks to run plays for him at a large rate. Is he due that right now? Can he do more than roll? And how long would it take before teams make adjustments to that? STAT became really good a PnR only after developing a solid mid-range jumper to combat defenses from dropping on the pick.

Think Obi needs more than just a PG but rather an offensive system that likes to run transition and pushes the tempo. Problem is that that there might not be any NBA teams that run that. Unless Paul Westhead gets back into coaching. Feel Obi just needs to keep improving so that he can have a more diverse attack. Think with patience he will add to those "Spots"

But will definitely take a high-level PG, please!

The worst part of it all is that (with the exception of Randle) our Big men are limited offensive players.

You can't run plays for OBI, Mitch ,noel or TAJ....mean while we face teams on a nightly basis that have 2 to 4 big men that shoot 3's.

Yup, I don’t see why we keep Mitch, Noel, and Taj. They are rebundant and hurt the team more by brining absolutely 0 offense, no matter how well their defense is.

This is probably Taj’s last year. Noel has a team friendly contract and can be flipped in a trade for a pick

Don’t be stupid. Lock up Mitch