Knicks · 2022 Trade deadline musings (and trades)………. (page 11)

KnickDanger @ 2/8/2022 8:56 PM
Think back to the Reddish trade a little while back. What rumors were there? None. All the click bait stuff is just that. Total bs.
fwk00 @ 2/8/2022 9:01 PM
jskinny35 wrote:If Randle's value is really dropped so much then where do we go from here? He either picks up his play and we can trade him on draft night or his stock continues to plummet... yikes

Looks like Sac is entertaining a small fire sale - do they have any 1st round picks available to trade? If so - instead of Burks, Kemba and a pick going out for Barnes - what about calling it a season and doing Randle and Burks for Barnes, Bagley and their #1 pick? Pick would probably would have to be top 5 protected? They seem to be making weird decisions with the Haliburton trade today when most thought Fox would be the one traded if any PG were to move.

I maybe reaching a bit but I'm betting that we don't have a second half resurgence like last year (when Rose led us to playoffs) and Randle's value will still be low or lower going into offseason. We could still use the rest of the season to see what the young players have which would ensure a decent draft pick even with them giving their full effort. Maybe Bagley shows something - but he expires if not. Barnes is only signed for next season and is serviceable - he could play some 3/4 while Toppin figures out if he can play a position on the Knicks.

We would now have an extra #1 pick to use to land a PG this offseason. Sacrificing Dallas's #1 for a Brunson would still leave us with 2 first rounders to use or trade/package for the future.

Thibs may quit but we would pick up the pace, spread the floor more and figure out how to move the ball consistently.


And I know it will never happen...

"Randle's value" is tightly coupled to his continued tenure here. There's a contagion factor in that the team that should be building around Barrett is being retarded by Randle's presence. Randle adversely impacts chemistry, flow, and, in the end, winning.

Last night CP of KFTV asserted a present day NBA truth, to paraphrase "Free Agency is dead. Everybody takes the bag! Everybody."

We've been through a LONG period of drafting kids. This team absolutely needs to master the art of trading or we are stuck in this middle ground for a long, long time - at least until the rules change. This doesn't mean "blowing it up" or simply rearranging the furniture. And it can't mean hanging onto the Randle's expecting something to "get better". Knicks need to cut bait.

It also means that the glut of untouchable yute can suffer a little pruning for the right deal.

As for the Sacto trade of Hali, I wasn't at all impressed by him when we played them a few nights ago. I think Sacto actually got the better end of that deal.

You are correct about that second half resurgence meme - not happening. However,a playin or playoff spot is not impossible assuming we don't get shut out by Thursday.

Thibs plays to win. He is who he is. The FO needs to get him a player or two who aren't there for development - that's a mismatch.

fwk00 @ 2/8/2022 9:14 PM
Chandler wrote:

Julius is the enigma. When we got him i didn't want him. The book was short arms, no vertical, bad BBIQ. all of which are true. But then last year he re-appeared as truly one of the best players in the league. then some short punk kicked him in the nuts in the playoffs, he choked, lost any swagger he had, and he's now back to 2020 or 2019 Randle but now with a dark cloud all around him. i held out hope that some team would value him some place in between hoping to recapture last year's magic when transferred to a new venue. SOmeohow i picture Dallas. He's from there. SOme deal where we send Randle and end up with Fox.

at this point i just want us to be disciplined. No trade is better than a bad trade. There's nothing transformative on the trade market. At this point we'd be better doing some 2 for 1 if we could to maybe get a marginally better player and to free up some minutes. Have to imagine some contending team might see pieces on our roster who could help --eg Noel if healthy, Burks or EF. FOr some reason i could see the Jazz wanting Noel and Burks but for what in return that would match?

Randle, IQ, and a protected 1st rounder to Dallas for Hardaway and Brunson might be negotiable.

I would at least attempt to persuade Utah to consider Nerlens, Burks, and McBride for Conley and Whiteside (expiring).

wargames @ 2/8/2022 10:13 PM
ToddTT @ 2/8/2022 10:38 PM
wargames wrote:

Finally! Now can we move EF out of the starting lineup, and move Kemba to 15th man?

Caseloads @ 2/8/2022 10:45 PM
ToddTT wrote:
wargames wrote:

Finally! Now can we move EF out of the starting lineup, and move Kemba to 15th man?

Grimes is injured. Once back, it would be great for him to start

Philc1 @ 2/8/2022 11:20 PM
wargames wrote:

No one wants our overpaid trash

Nalod @ 2/9/2022 10:50 AM
We mad over rumors that FO is out of touch based on hearsay?
IF harrison is being talked about, we have to send something in return?
We mad that Sac might not have had any interest in Randle?
SOme of you might like Haliburton but what does FO rate him?
This is this FO second trade deadline and we all “typical Knicks” in response to Rumors?
If sac would not take Fournier, how do we take heild?
knicks1248 @ 2/9/2022 11:10 AM
Nalod @ 2/9/2022 11:23 AM
Good Athletic “NBA Show” pod cast today With Former 76ers and Nets GM Billy King. He reiterates a point that ownership often is involved but when they walk it to the public its the “Team” that does the trade. Good back room stuff to learn about how deals get done. I forgot he was with the 76ers in the iverson years and had Larry Brown. Some funny stuff said!
Might help how some of you shape opinions.
Allanfan20 @ 2/9/2022 11:24 AM
If we could trade Randle and Fournier for Westbrook, that would be in our best interests. Obviously LA would have to be interested. Since they are in “win right this current second” mode then you’d think they would highly consider it.
martin @ 2/9/2022 11:26 AM
Allanfan20 wrote:If we could trade Randle and Fournier for Westbrook, that would be in our best interests. Obviously LA would have to be interested. Since they are in “win right this current second” mode then you’d think they would highly consider it.

I don't think Randle is a player I would want to necessarily build around - and everyone has a different version of "build around" - but you don't trade a player like him for Westbrook deadweight. It's just not a thing.

wargames @ 2/9/2022 11:28 AM
knicks1248 wrote:

I am not even sure they are interested in Barnes. Berman started that rumor with little evidence.

Then again what is more Scott Perry than trading for a nobody on a bad team after they sent their best player away to someone else. That’s peak Scott Perry.

Allanfan20 @ 2/9/2022 11:40 AM
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:If we could trade Randle and Fournier for Westbrook, that would be in our best interests. Obviously LA would have to be interested. Since they are in “win right this current second” mode then you’d think they would highly consider it.

I don't think Randle is a player I would want to necessarily build around - and everyone has a different version of "build around" - but you don't trade a player like him for Westbrook deadweight. It's just not a thing.

The Lakers wouldn’t build around Randle. Randle would finally have that alpha to put him in his place in LA and we would clear up his contract in a year and a half.

And the Lakers would also get a serious enough of a shooter. I would love more for Randle as much as anyone but I don’t think that’s possible now. If you can trade him in a salary dump and you have no other options, I think you have to do it.

martin @ 2/9/2022 11:45 AM
Allanfan20 wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:If we could trade Randle and Fournier for Westbrook, that would be in our best interests. Obviously LA would have to be interested. Since they are in “win right this current second” mode then you’d think they would highly consider it.

I don't think Randle is a player I would want to necessarily build around - and everyone has a different version of "build around" - but you don't trade a player like him for Westbrook deadweight. It's just not a thing.

The Lakers wouldn’t build around Randle. Randle would finally have that alpha to put him in his place in LA and we would clear up his contract in a year and a half.

And the Lakers would also get a serious enough of a shooter. I would love more for Randle as much as anyone but I don’t think that’s possible now. If you can trade him in a salary dump and you have no other options, I think you have to do it.

Salary dump Randle? No f'ing way.

I don't think your understanding of player value is close to reality. This is coming from someone who doesn't really care for Randle.

Allanfan20 @ 2/9/2022 11:58 AM
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:If we could trade Randle and Fournier for Westbrook, that would be in our best interests. Obviously LA would have to be interested. Since they are in “win right this current second” mode then you’d think they would highly consider it.

I don't think Randle is a player I would want to necessarily build around - and everyone has a different version of "build around" - but you don't trade a player like him for Westbrook deadweight. It's just not a thing.

The Lakers wouldn’t build around Randle. Randle would finally have that alpha to put him in his place in LA and we would clear up his contract in a year and a half.

And the Lakers would also get a serious enough of a shooter. I would love more for Randle as much as anyone but I don’t think that’s possible now. If you can trade him in a salary dump and you have no other options, I think you have to do it.

Salary dump Randle? No f'ing way.

I don't think your understanding of player value is close to reality. This is coming from someone who doesn't really care for Randle.

So then how do you propose to proceed forward?

martin @ 2/9/2022 12:02 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:If we could trade Randle and Fournier for Westbrook, that would be in our best interests. Obviously LA would have to be interested. Since they are in “win right this current second” mode then you’d think they would highly consider it.

I don't think Randle is a player I would want to necessarily build around - and everyone has a different version of "build around" - but you don't trade a player like him for Westbrook deadweight. It's just not a thing.

The Lakers wouldn’t build around Randle. Randle would finally have that alpha to put him in his place in LA and we would clear up his contract in a year and a half.

And the Lakers would also get a serious enough of a shooter. I would love more for Randle as much as anyone but I don’t think that’s possible now. If you can trade him in a salary dump and you have no other options, I think you have to do it.

Salary dump Randle? No f'ing way.

I don't think your understanding of player value is close to reality. This is coming from someone who doesn't really care for Randle.

So then how do you propose to proceed forward?

I am stealing this from ESPN. I would do both in a heartbeat.

Russell Westbrook, DeAndre Jordan, Wayne Ellington, 2027 Lakers 1st round pick top-14 protected FOR Kemba Walker, Evan Fournier, Alec Burks

and

Jalen Brunson FOR Immanuel Quickley, 2023 Dallas 1st round pick top-10 protected

Nalod @ 2/9/2022 12:12 PM
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:If we could trade Randle and Fournier for Westbrook, that would be in our best interests. Obviously LA would have to be interested. Since they are in “win right this current second” mode then you’d think they would highly consider it.

I don't think Randle is a player I would want to necessarily build around - and everyone has a different version of "build around" - but you don't trade a player like him for Westbrook deadweight. It's just not a thing.

The Lakers wouldn’t build around Randle. Randle would finally have that alpha to put him in his place in LA and we would clear up his contract in a year and a half.

And the Lakers would also get a serious enough of a shooter. I would love more for Randle as much as anyone but I don’t think that’s possible now. If you can trade him in a salary dump and you have no other options, I think you have to do it.

Salary dump Randle? No f'ing way.

I don't think your understanding of player value is close to reality. This is coming from someone who doesn't really care for Randle.

So then how do you propose to proceed forward?

I am stealing this from ESPN. I would do both in a heartbeat.

Russell Westbrook, DeAndre Jordan, Wayne Ellington, 2027 Lakers 1st round pick top-14 protected FOR Kemba Walker, Evan Fournier, Alec Burks

and

Jalen Brunson FOR Immanuel Quickley, 2023 Dallas 1st round pick top-10 protected

I Like Part 2 of that. If not for IQ, for Mitch.

The Westbrook part is hard to digest. We kick the can down the road with Randle and RJ with Capspace in two years? Not awful.

IM of the belief Just because Fournier and Kemba did not pan out as hoped you have to turn over the FO and coaching staff. Also that any single person is to blame.

I promote we contine to improve with randle and RJ with them as foundational pieces. One or either will emerge as a “Cornerstone” piece. Im not against trading randle, just not at this trade deadline.
He had a bad funk. If a team wants t step up thats fine. But Im not dumping him as a Marbury type headcase.
Marbles had many seaons to work up to his Vaseline moment.

jskinny35 @ 2/9/2022 12:22 PM
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:If we could trade Randle and Fournier for Westbrook, that would be in our best interests. Obviously LA would have to be interested. Since they are in “win right this current second” mode then you’d think they would highly consider it.

I don't think Randle is a player I would want to necessarily build around - and everyone has a different version of "build around" - but you don't trade a player like him for Westbrook deadweight. It's just not a thing.

The Lakers wouldn’t build around Randle. Randle would finally have that alpha to put him in his place in LA and we would clear up his contract in a year and a half.

And the Lakers would also get a serious enough of a shooter. I would love more for Randle as much as anyone but I don’t think that’s possible now. If you can trade him in a salary dump and you have no other options, I think you have to do it.

Salary dump Randle? No f'ing way.

I don't think your understanding of player value is close to reality. This is coming from someone who doesn't really care for Randle.

So then how do you propose to proceed forward?

I am stealing this from ESPN. I would do both in a heartbeat.

Russell Westbrook, DeAndre Jordan, Wayne Ellington, 2027 Lakers 1st round pick top-14 protected FOR Kemba Walker, Evan Fournier, Alec Burks

and

Jalen Brunson FOR Immanuel Quickley, 2023 Dallas 1st round pick top-10 protected

Would Lakers really give us a #1 pick without giving up Randle in a deal back? We're giving them 2 role players and 1 "about to expire" player in Kemba. I'd take it but not sure LA would really give us that pick. They should really try for J.Wall IMO.

I could def work with these two trades combined but it would only make basketball sense if you either played Westbrook off the bench as a super sub (and what to do with Rose who's in that role) OR sat Westbrook or waive him early next season. Brunson, Rose should get most of the minutes at PG in this situation.

Like IQ but would absolutely be ok with him and a 1st for Brunson. Don't think Dallas would do this deal though as believe they would want more (eg Mitch).

I wouldn't part with Mitch because I really think having a pass first PG would make Mitch perform even better.
Also think they may move on from Randle this offseason so Mitch's limited shooting abilities (around Randle) wouldn't stand out as much... then we're back looking for a C that does basically what Mitch does.

foosballnick @ 2/9/2022 12:26 PM
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:If we could trade Randle and Fournier for Westbrook, that would be in our best interests. Obviously LA would have to be interested. Since they are in “win right this current second” mode then you’d think they would highly consider it.

I don't think Randle is a player I would want to necessarily build around - and everyone has a different version of "build around" - but you don't trade a player like him for Westbrook deadweight. It's just not a thing.

The Lakers wouldn’t build around Randle. Randle would finally have that alpha to put him in his place in LA and we would clear up his contract in a year and a half.

And the Lakers would also get a serious enough of a shooter. I would love more for Randle as much as anyone but I don’t think that’s possible now. If you can trade him in a salary dump and you have no other options, I think you have to do it.

Salary dump Randle? No f'ing way.

I don't think your understanding of player value is close to reality. This is coming from someone who doesn't really care for Randle.

So then how do you propose to proceed forward?

I am stealing this from ESPN. I would do both in a heartbeat.

Russell Westbrook, DeAndre Jordan, Wayne Ellington, 2027 Lakers 1st round pick top-14 protected FOR Kemba Walker, Evan Fournier, Alec Burks

and

Jalen Brunson FOR Immanuel Quickley, 2023 Dallas 1st round pick top-10 protected

How can the proposed Westbrook trade work form a Salary perspective because I'm calculating over $10 million difference in overall salaries?

Brunson - IQ Trade - is that assuming a sign and trade or is it risking he will still become a UFA?

martin @ 2/9/2022 12:30 PM
foosballnick wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:If we could trade Randle and Fournier for Westbrook, that would be in our best interests. Obviously LA would have to be interested. Since they are in “win right this current second” mode then you’d think they would highly consider it.

I don't think Randle is a player I would want to necessarily build around - and everyone has a different version of "build around" - but you don't trade a player like him for Westbrook deadweight. It's just not a thing.

The Lakers wouldn’t build around Randle. Randle would finally have that alpha to put him in his place in LA and we would clear up his contract in a year and a half.

And the Lakers would also get a serious enough of a shooter. I would love more for Randle as much as anyone but I don’t think that’s possible now. If you can trade him in a salary dump and you have no other options, I think you have to do it.

Salary dump Randle? No f'ing way.

I don't think your understanding of player value is close to reality. This is coming from someone who doesn't really care for Randle.

So then how do you propose to proceed forward?

I am stealing this from ESPN. I would do both in a heartbeat.

Russell Westbrook, DeAndre Jordan, Wayne Ellington, 2027 Lakers 1st round pick top-14 protected FOR Kemba Walker, Evan Fournier, Alec Burks

and

Jalen Brunson FOR Immanuel Quickley, 2023 Dallas 1st round pick top-10 protected

How can the proposed Westbrook trade work form a Salary perspective because I'm calculating over $10 million difference in overall salaries?

Brunson - IQ Trade - is that assuming a sign and trade or is it risking he will still become a UFA?

You are correct. Maybe they add in Noel and Lakers add in Bazemore.

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