I think RJs play over the last 3rd of the season was enough to convince the Knicks to keep him long term. I don't think RJ will be a top ten player in the league but I think he will be a top 50 guy. His salary cap hold for next off season is 38 million. He won't get that but if the Knicks try to play the RFA route, I'm not sure it will bring considerable savings. Randle's deal also sets a cap on what RJ should get. It's hard to argue he's much more valuable than Randle.
If Knicks sign Robinson to an Evan Fournier type contract, the Knicks will have about 110 million in salary going into FA next offseason. With a semi spike in the cap from a new CBA, they could potentially have enough to be players in FA.
happy 22nd birthday RJ.. yes its today.
Its a contract year and a big year for him. Progress isnt linear. This is where the term "break out" comes from. Hopefully we see more good things in year 4
he can't shoot in the 300s% again on his 3pa, no matter how many he takes.
He also needs to get better on defense.
Otherwise I would look to trade him because I realize this is funny money, but he hasn't in my book earned this kind of contract, and while we've seen flashes, nothing really sustained.
His lack of efficiency has been based on his situation. I can only imagine him in the Wiggins role in GS or playing in Memphis. He would have a much different rep.
He did shoot 40% last season.
We can finds reasons to not like extending him, or the trajectory I showed last week of him tranding better than Jimmy Butler and Derozen.
I'll leave the money up to our guys to figure it out. Not mine to dole out or keep.
Knixkik wrote:His lack of efficiency has been based on his situation. I can only imagine him in the Wiggins role in GS or playing in Memphis. He would have a much different rep.
And that is the difference between Batman and Robin.
Knixkik wrote:His lack of efficiency has been based on his situation. I can only imagine him in the Wiggins role in GS or playing in Memphis. He would have a much different rep.
Was his situation Below Average Volume Shooting? 
He lacks touch around the rim.
He lacks feel for the mid range; he has got to do something with that push shot.
He runs hot and cold from the arc.
Those are his situations.
Knixkik wrote:His lack of efficiency has been based on his situation. I can only imagine him in the Wiggins role in GS or playing in Memphis. He would have a much different rep.
Fizz told RJ to not change his shooting form in TC in 2019 after working on changing it that summer. His shooting percentages were down his rookie year that’s where he got this rap of being a bad shooter
i’d pay him. i think he can be a good player on a good team, like derozan. and like derozan he’s the kind of player a team would accept for a disgruntled superstar.
Id offer him 125m for 5 seasons. with the last year as a player option.
What other teams would want and be able to outbid this price?
ESOMKnicks wrote:Id offer him 125m for 5 seasons. with the last year as a player option.
What other teams would want and be able to outbid this price?
I think that is fair, especially if we are talking $15-20 per for M Rob or Brunson.
Leon does not seem like he has a penchant for over paying for players.
At the time, Randle extension was very well applauded for being reasonable by both fans, media, and Randle was happy.
EF on paper about kept to the average wage for the starting sf.
Kemba? Not sure to whom to blame. Buck stops with leon I guess. It was a reach. See how it plays out.
Fans tend to be a bit stingy Jimmys money. My take as always: as long as he upholds to the contract value he is tradable and thus an asset on or off the court. Both camps will compelling arguments to his value. he has not won any allrookie stuff but he improves monthly. Rather than vomit out some silly made up shit I’d just as soon shrug my shoulders as to what he should be paid.
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:His lack of efficiency has been based on his situation. I can only imagine him in the Wiggins role in GS or playing in Memphis. He would have a much different rep.
Was his situation Below Average Volume Shooting? He lacks touch around the rim.
He lacks feel for the mid range; he has got to do something with that push shot.
He runs hot and cold from the arc.
Those are his situations.
The fact that we have this discussion after drafting him #3, after swinging and missing on KP with the #4 is truly a buzz kill. If you walk out of two top 3/4 picks with no franchise player, that really sucks.
gradyandrew wrote:Panos wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:His lack of efficiency has been based on his situation. I can only imagine him in the Wiggins role in GS or playing in Memphis. He would have a much different rep.
Was his situation Below Average Volume Shooting? He lacks touch around the rim.
He lacks feel for the mid range; he has got to do something with that push shot.
He runs hot and cold from the arc.
Those are his situations.
The fact that we have this discussion after drafting him #3, after swinging and missing on KP with the #4 is truly a buzz kill. If you walk out of two top 3/4 picks with no franchise player, that really sucks.
Knicks gonna Knick, LOL
I already ordered my Mo Bamba Knicks jersey
gradyandrew wrote:I think RJs play over the last 3rd of the season was enough to convince the Knicks to keep him long term. I don't think RJ will be a top ten player in the league but I think he will be a top 50 guy. His salary cap hold for next off season is 38 million. He won't get that but if the Knicks try to play the RFA route, I'm not sure it will bring considerable savings. Randle's deal also sets a cap on what RJ should get. It's hard to argue he's much more valuable than Randle. If Knicks sign Robinson to an Evan Fournier type contract, the Knicks will have about 110 million in salary going into FA next offseason. With a semi spike in the cap from a new CBA, they could potentially have enough to be players in FA.
I’ve put a number of posts up about giving RJ his shot to be the center of the offense. He has gotten that shot for half a season and the returns aren’t that amazing. Ignoring the “money stats” for the deeper dive into eFG in particular, he is among the highest volume shooters with the lowest efficiency. In perspective, the criticism of ISO-Melo was his low FG% and likewise low eFG. I use Wiggins as my model of a fringe player that got a large contract that resulted in multiple teams trading him - sometimes adding picks for the luxury. Wiggins had an eFG of .548 compared to Barrett’s .466. It took Wiggins most of his contract to earn out on that contract.
I want to believe that RJ will continue to develop and I do believe he will be a productive player in this league. But after seeing his inability to convert at the rim which seems to come from a lack of athleticism and an unwillingness to find open teammates, I am questioning whether giving him money is another Wiggins contract.
As we watch Wiggins in the finals, it doesn’t seem so bad. But on the other hand, TWolves gave up a lotto pick to get DLo for him even though positional scarcity called it a fair trade straight up.
I worry that paying Barrett will cost us a draft pick to move later.
Simple solution for both Barrett and Randle is to improve eFG. Just take more efficient shots. Might be time to actually implement an offense.
EwingsGlass wrote:gradyandrew wrote:I think RJs play over the last 3rd of the season was enough to convince the Knicks to keep him long term. I don't think RJ will be a top ten player in the league but I think he will be a top 50 guy. His salary cap hold for next off season is 38 million. He won't get that but if the Knicks try to play the RFA route, I'm not sure it will bring considerable savings. Randle's deal also sets a cap on what RJ should get. It's hard to argue he's much more valuable than Randle. If Knicks sign Robinson to an Evan Fournier type contract, the Knicks will have about 110 million in salary going into FA next offseason. With a semi spike in the cap from a new CBA, they could potentially have enough to be players in FA.
I’ve put a number of posts up about giving RJ his shot to be the center of the offense. He has gotten that shot for half a season and the returns aren’t that amazing. Ignoring the “money stats” for the deeper dive into eFG in particular, he is among the highest volume shooters with the lowest efficiency. In perspective, the criticism of ISO-Melo was his low FG% and likewise low eFG. I use Wiggins as my model of a fringe player that got a large contract that resulted in multiple teams trading him - sometimes adding picks for the luxury. Wiggins had an eFG of .548 compared to Barrett’s .466. It took Wiggins most of his contract to earn out on that contract.
I want to believe that RJ will continue to develop and I do believe he will be a productive player in this league. But after seeing his inability to convert at the rim which seems to come from a lack of athleticism and an unwillingness to find open teammates, I am questioning whether giving him money is another Wiggins contract.
As we watch Wiggins in the finals, it doesn’t seem so bad. But on the other hand, TWolves gave up a lotto pick to get DLo for him even though positional scarcity called it a fair trade straight up.
I worry that paying Barrett will cost us a draft pick to move later.
Simple solution for both Barrett and Randle is to improve eFG. Just take more efficient shots. Might be time to actually implement an offense.
Agree with everything you say. Is he good or has he been benefitting from a lots of shots and ample play time? The advanced stats in particular hate him. The eye test tells a different story. Whether last season as a corner 3 sniper or this season getting to the rim, he looks really good.
My feeling a month ago was that NY should go all in for Lillard.Nothing has really changed that view but it seems increasingly unlikely- a lot of talk about Portland trying to rebuild around Dame and his presence at the draft says a lot. I think getting an all NBA player would let everyone else get better shots. No one is scheming to stop Burks.
The main reason I'm for extending RJ is just for stability. I think if an extension gets done for a Randle sized -contract, then the Knicks have a higher floor going forward.
gradyandrew wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:gradyandrew wrote:I think RJs play over the last 3rd of the season was enough to convince the Knicks to keep him long term. I don't think RJ will be a top ten player in the league but I think he will be a top 50 guy. His salary cap hold for next off season is 38 million. He won't get that but if the Knicks try to play the RFA route, I'm not sure it will bring considerable savings. Randle's deal also sets a cap on what RJ should get. It's hard to argue he's much more valuable than Randle. If Knicks sign Robinson to an Evan Fournier type contract, the Knicks will have about 110 million in salary going into FA next offseason. With a semi spike in the cap from a new CBA, they could potentially have enough to be players in FA.
I’ve put a number of posts up about giving RJ his shot to be the center of the offense. He has gotten that shot for half a season and the returns aren’t that amazing. Ignoring the “money stats” for the deeper dive into eFG in particular, he is among the highest volume shooters with the lowest efficiency. In perspective, the criticism of ISO-Melo was his low FG% and likewise low eFG. I use Wiggins as my model of a fringe player that got a large contract that resulted in multiple teams trading him - sometimes adding picks for the luxury. Wiggins had an eFG of .548 compared to Barrett’s .466. It took Wiggins most of his contract to earn out on that contract.
I want to believe that RJ will continue to develop and I do believe he will be a productive player in this league. But after seeing his inability to convert at the rim which seems to come from a lack of athleticism and an unwillingness to find open teammates, I am questioning whether giving him money is another Wiggins contract.
As we watch Wiggins in the finals, it doesn’t seem so bad. But on the other hand, TWolves gave up a lotto pick to get DLo for him even though positional scarcity called it a fair trade straight up.
I worry that paying Barrett will cost us a draft pick to move later.
Simple solution for both Barrett and Randle is to improve eFG. Just take more efficient shots. Might be time to actually implement an offense.
Agree with everything you say. Is he good or has he been benefitting from a lots of shots and ample play time? The advanced stats in particular hate him. The eye test tells a different story. Whether last season as a corner 3 sniper or this season getting to the rim, he looks really good.
My feeling a month ago was that NY should go all in for Lillard.Nothing has really changed that view but it seems increasingly unlikely- a lot of talk about Portland trying to rebuild around Dame and his presence at the draft says a lot. I think getting an all NBA player would let everyone else get better shots. No one is scheming to stop Burks.
The main reason I'm for extending RJ is just for stability. I think if an extension gets done for a Randle sized -contract, then the Knicks have a higher floor going forward.
I see no one mention Barrett becoming an All-Star player in the future, or Barrett's performance as a guard, or at the SF. This past season Burks needed lots of help from Fournier & Barrett in the back court which he never receive.
Wiggins has always been getting paid twice what his performance been worth in his NBA career.
Giving Barrett over 90M contract will be the same as Wiggins.
When Poole was in the same draft-class as Barrett, and Poole showed team leadership throughout his 3rd season performing well on court at multi position on both sides of the court.
Poole's 76 game performance in the back court this past season having injury to SG Klay at the start of the season, then an injury PG Curry during the season was off the chart. We know what position combo-guard Poole play. Barrett's individual performance couldn't touch Poole's performance having a 10 foot pole.
IF the Knicks have to play Quickley at the PG position next season .. Who will the Knicks have at the SG position? Barrett & Fournier & Burks are no help at the SG position, especially on defense. 2nd season SG-Grimes are good on the defensive end, but Grimes has no offense creativeness to score.
Panos wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:His lack of efficiency has been based on his situation. I can only imagine him in the Wiggins role in GS or playing in Memphis. He would have a much different rep.
Was his situation Below Average Volume Shooting? He lacks touch around the rim.
He lacks feel for the mid range; he has got to do something with that push shot.
He runs hot and cold from the arc.
Those are his situations.
The fact that we have this discussion after drafting him #3, after swinging and missing on KP with the #4 is truly a buzz kill. If you walk out of two top 3/4 picks with no franchise player, that really sucks.
This is a bad franchise. Not only do they have no luck but they always pick the wrong player
Jmpasq wrote:Panos wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:His lack of efficiency has been based on his situation. I can only imagine him in the Wiggins role in GS or playing in Memphis. He would have a much different rep.
Was his situation Below Average Volume Shooting? He lacks touch around the rim.
He lacks feel for the mid range; he has got to do something with that push shot.
He runs hot and cold from the arc.
Those are his situations.
The fact that we have this discussion after drafting him #3, after swinging and missing on KP with the #4 is truly a buzz kill. If you walk out of two top 3/4 picks with no franchise player, that really sucks.
This is a bad franchise. Not only do they have no luck but they always pick the wrong player
I remember saying Ja will be the best player in that draft, over zion and RJ. I’m wondering if Ivey is that player in this draft. Someone we will all look back on and say, why didn’t Rose sale the farm to move up”.
Hindsight always 2020
RJ may or may not be a franchise player, but he’s a talented nba player and we need to draft more talent. Obtaining a franchise player is not easy (gotta get lucky) but more talent is always needed.
