martin wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Ivey is too young. The front office isn't interested.
I think the exact opposite. There is a ton of homework being done about him from the Knicks. No idea if NY can trade up but it seems like they are targeting him.
Moving up that high will cost a bundle. However, since the Knicks have zero luck, an aggressive move like that may be the only way to fix the PG spot.
I still think the Knicks end up with AJ griffin (local guy, CAA guy) and focus on getting a vet PG. Brunson, Brogdon or T Jones.
Jimbo5 wrote:There is a belief that the FO's offseason plan to get a PG might be:
Plan A: trade up and get Jayden Ivey.
Plan B: sign Brunson
Plan C: trade for Brogdon
Trading up will cost alot but if the Knicks brass thinks Ivey can be a Garland or Ja, i guess eventually if it pans out everyone will get over it. If the cost is the 11th pick, a future 1st and Obi, how will you guys feel?
Is there a way to trade Randle to the hawks plus one 1st round pick for John Collins? The is a good chance Randle will have a bounce back year next year but i dont like the idea he might be a bad influence to the other young knicks.
Mitch/Bamba
John Collins
RJ
IQ/Grimes
IveyI like Ivey alot, i hope he develops his shooting if he somehow gets drafted by the knicks
was he a bad influence when they'd roll into town and get a gym for late night workouts?
Was he a bad influence on the yoot last year who progressed all seasons and finished up strong?
No.
Do fans know why he was salty?
Did team tune out its coach or stop playing hard?
No.
Did he not help up every player from the floor? No.
Did he maybe not see every player on teh floor? Maybe.
Do we give him any benefit of the doubt or tilt it all negative?
What about John Collins? Is he universally liked by his team? What about his game? Be careful, you might want Randle gone but Collins has his warts too.
Nalod wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:There is a belief that the FO's offseason plan to get a PG might be:
Plan A: trade up and get Jayden Ivey.
Plan B: sign Brunson
Plan C: trade for Brogdon
Trading up will cost alot but if the Knicks brass thinks Ivey can be a Garland or Ja, i guess eventually if it pans out everyone will get over it. If the cost is the 11th pick, a future 1st and Obi, how will you guys feel?
Is there a way to trade Randle to the hawks plus one 1st round pick for John Collins? The is a good chance Randle will have a bounce back year next year but i dont like the idea he might be a bad influence to the other young knicks.
Mitch/Bamba
John Collins
RJ
IQ/Grimes
IveyI like Ivey alot, i hope he develops his shooting if he somehow gets drafted by the knicks
was he a bad influence when they'd roll into town and get a gym for late night workouts?
Was he a bad influence on the yoot last year who progressed all seasons and finished up strong?
No.
Do fans know why he was salty?
Did team tune out its coach or stop playing hard?
No.
Did he not help up every player from the floor? No.
Did he maybe not see every player on teh floor? Maybe.
Do we give him any benefit of the doubt or tilt it all negative?
What about John Collins? Is he universally liked by his team? What about his game? Be careful, you might want Randle gone but Collins has his warts too.
If Knicks give up Obi for talented Ivey, PG
Obi going elsewhere will Haunt NY Franchise the next few yrs, since NYK need PG and need Obi as well !
Obi going elsewhere will Haunt NY Franchise the next few yrs, since NYK need PG and need Obi as well !
There in lies the dilemma of the Knicks 
?
BRIGGS wrote:Simply draft jalen Williams as a pg for the Knicks at 11. No years of cultivating— he’s a plug in play 6-6 pg with a near 7-3 wingspan. He’s big enough to guard guys like lamelo and Cade Cunningham and good enough offensively to protect the ball make the right pass or open shot. It’s a no brainer staring right at the team. No fancy trade ideas. We’d have iq willians McBride and rose —- nothing else needed.
Briggs- sure do like the idea of him- a kid who played PG early in his career who had a late growth spurt- those athletes tend to stay coordinated.
He seems to be mid-late first rounder. Aren’t you tired of us always trading back? Or are you willing to take criticism if he flops?
Part of me is looking at Mark Williams and thinking if we aren’t getting a PG, lets just roll our dice with size.
Nalod wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:There is a belief that the FO's offseason plan to get a PG might be:
Plan A: trade up and get Jayden Ivey.
Plan B: sign Brunson
Plan C: trade for Brogdon
Trading up will cost alot but if the Knicks brass thinks Ivey can be a Garland or Ja, i guess eventually if it pans out everyone will get over it. If the cost is the 11th pick, a future 1st and Obi, how will you guys feel?
Is there a way to trade Randle to the hawks plus one 1st round pick for John Collins? The is a good chance Randle will have a bounce back year next year but i dont like the idea he might be a bad influence to the other young knicks.
Mitch/Bamba
John Collins
RJ
IQ/Grimes
IveyI like Ivey alot, i hope he develops his shooting if he somehow gets drafted by the knicks
was he a bad influence when they'd roll into town and get a gym for late night workouts?
Was he a bad influence on the yoot last year who progressed all seasons and finished up strong?
No.
Do fans know why he was salty?
Did team tune out its coach or stop playing hard?
No.
Did he not help up every player from the floor? No.
Did he maybe not see every player on teh floor? Maybe.
Do we give him any benefit of the doubt or tilt it all negative?
What about John Collins? Is he universally liked by his team? What about his game? Be careful, you might want Randle gone but Collins has his warts too.
Im not talking about his work ethic being a bad influence, i even have a hunch he could have a big bounce back year next season. I just dont like how he handled his dip in performance, his attitude on the court when things doesnt go his way. Right now the youth got it right, just work hard both RJ and IQ broke through their shooting slumps, Obi never became negative with his lack of playing time. If Randle's bad attitude carries over to next season im worried once the knicks youth starts experiencing real success and when they hit a bump on the road they would think the most logical action is to do the Randle way of handling things. I just don't want randle's antics of last season be a regular thing on this knicks team.
Knicks need that athletic dynamic guard that will be unstopbbale in this league at 6'4. Ex. Young westbrook that can shoot or a taller Ja morant. Ivey can be that player we desperately looking for. We're not giving up RJ for the 4th pick. The goal is to pair him up with RJ for the next 8 yrs as the tandem duo for the Knicks. There are no other sound way in getting that pg we need.. Brogdon is going to be 30 yrs old, injury proned and makes too much $$. DLO from minny is on a decline.Warriors with Wiggs got the better end of that deal.. Jalen Brunson would have to be acquired via sign and trade but at same time Dallas really want him back and he's not tall. The proper solution is to get IVEY. This is our only shot at this great opportunity. The draft is not pg or guard heavy so grab the best one who can really change this franchise long term.. GET IVEY! Knicks scout can see the future with him.. If you going to get someone via the draft, it should be your pg/guard.. We not winning with Drose or Kemba... Their time has passed... Mcbride still has alot of development to go through but he will end up being a role player.. European sensation Rokas not coming here. He already told the Knicks he's staying in the Euro League another yr.
Jimbo5 wrote:Nalod wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:There is a belief that the FO's offseason plan to get a PG might be:
Plan A: trade up and get Jayden Ivey.
Plan B: sign Brunson
Plan C: trade for Brogdon
Trading up will cost alot but if the Knicks brass thinks Ivey can be a Garland or Ja, i guess eventually if it pans out everyone will get over it. If the cost is the 11th pick, a future 1st and Obi, how will you guys feel?
Is there a way to trade Randle to the hawks plus one 1st round pick for John Collins? The is a good chance Randle will have a bounce back year next year but i dont like the idea he might be a bad influence to the other young knicks.
Mitch/Bamba
John Collins
RJ
IQ/Grimes
IveyI like Ivey alot, i hope he develops his shooting if he somehow gets drafted by the knicks
was he a bad influence when they'd roll into town and get a gym for late night workouts?
Was he a bad influence on the yoot last year who progressed all seasons and finished up strong?
No.
Do fans know why he was salty?
Did team tune out its coach or stop playing hard?
No.
Did he not help up every player from the floor? No.
Did he maybe not see every player on teh floor? Maybe.
Do we give him any benefit of the doubt or tilt it all negative?
What about John Collins? Is he universally liked by his team? What about his game? Be careful, you might want Randle gone but Collins has his warts too.
Im not talking about his work ethic being a bad influence, i even have a hunch he could have a big bounce back year next season. I just dont like how he handled his dip in performance, his attitude on the court when things doesnt go his way. Right now the youth got it right, just work hard both RJ and IQ broke through their shooting slumps, Obi never became negative with his lack of playing time. If Randle's bad attitude carries over to next season im worried once the knicks youth starts experiencing real success and when they hit a bump on the road they would think the most logical action is to do the Randle way of handling things. I just don't want randle's antics of last season be a regular thing on this knicks team.
Agree 100%. I'm sure Collins has warts but there is a big difference in how players choose to handle things. I would suspect every year each team has a player or several that privately are unhappy - maybe even sulk and give off bad energy... but it's mostly internal and fans don't hear about it. We only hear about the ones from live videos or reporters that share their perceptions behind the scenes. Randle has seemed to struggle managing his emotions his whole career (see Lakers videos) and he doesn't positively impact the "team" where you just have to put up with it.
Additionally I would take J.Collins in a second even if he never produces at the level Randle does. The biggest benefit is Collins doesn't demand/hold the ball so our entire offense would move the ball more. My biggest gripe with Randle is the way he plays offensively. He plays like it's 1997 whereas the rest of the league plays a different style, pace, etc...
Collins is also more athletic, younger and would likely fit in well with the young core we have going on currently.
DJMUSIC wrote:Nalod wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:There is a belief that the FO's offseason plan to get a PG might be:
Plan A: trade up and get Jayden Ivey.
Plan B: sign Brunson
Plan C: trade for Brogdon
Trading up will cost alot but if the Knicks brass thinks Ivey can be a Garland or Ja, i guess eventually if it pans out everyone will get over it. If the cost is the 11th pick, a future 1st and Obi, how will you guys feel?
Is there a way to trade Randle to the hawks plus one 1st round pick for John Collins? The is a good chance Randle will have a bounce back year next year but i dont like the idea he might be a bad influence to the other young knicks.
Mitch/Bamba
John Collins
RJ
IQ/Grimes
IveyI like Ivey alot, i hope he develops his shooting if he somehow gets drafted by the knicks
was he a bad influence when they'd roll into town and get a gym for late night workouts?
Was he a bad influence on the yoot last year who progressed all seasons and finished up strong?
No.
Do fans know why he was salty?
Did team tune out its coach or stop playing hard?
No.
Did he not help up every player from the floor? No.
Did he maybe not see every player on teh floor? Maybe.
Do we give him any benefit of the doubt or tilt it all negative?
What about John Collins? Is he universally liked by his team? What about his game? Be careful, you might want Randle gone but Collins has his warts too.
If Knicks give up Obi for talented Ivey, PG
Obi going elsewhere will Haunt NY Franchise the next few yrs, since NYK need PG and need Obi as well !
You don’t have to worry about that because a package of Obi and the 11 pick isn’t getting a deal done for Ivey
And I like Obi and I agree, it’s a shame we have yet to see him with a functional pg yet in 2 years
Jimbo5 wrote:Nalod wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:There is a belief that the FO's offseason plan to get a PG might be:
Plan A: trade up and get Jayden Ivey.
Plan B: sign Brunson
Plan C: trade for Brogdon
Trading up will cost alot but if the Knicks brass thinks Ivey can be a Garland or Ja, i guess eventually if it pans out everyone will get over it. If the cost is the 11th pick, a future 1st and Obi, how will you guys feel?
Is there a way to trade Randle to the hawks plus one 1st round pick for John Collins? The is a good chance Randle will have a bounce back year next year but i dont like the idea he might be a bad influence to the other young knicks.
Mitch/Bamba
John Collins
RJ
IQ/Grimes
IveyI like Ivey alot, i hope he develops his shooting if he somehow gets drafted by the knicks
was he a bad influence when they'd roll into town and get a gym for late night workouts?
Was he a bad influence on the yoot last year who progressed all seasons and finished up strong?
No.
Do fans know why he was salty?
Did team tune out its coach or stop playing hard?
No.
Did he not help up every player from the floor? No.
Did he maybe not see every player on teh floor? Maybe.
Do we give him any benefit of the doubt or tilt it all negative?
What about John Collins? Is he universally liked by his team? What about his game? Be careful, you might want Randle gone but Collins has his warts too.
Im not talking about his work ethic being a bad influence, i even have a hunch he could have a big bounce back year next season. I just dont like how he handled his dip in performance, his attitude on the court when things doesnt go his way. Right now the youth got it right, just work hard both RJ and IQ broke through their shooting slumps, Obi never became negative with his lack of playing time. If Randle's bad attitude carries over to next season im worried once the knicks youth starts experiencing real success and when they hit a bump on the road they would think the most logical action is to do the Randle way of handling things. I just don't want randle's antics of last season be a regular thing on this knicks team.
You troll you. I bet you didn’t know Randle has incentives if he gets particular stats 4 years from now.
Realgm is running that Denver is looking to trade Monte Morris. He would probably cost significant draft compensation but would be one of the better options we discussed. Reddish, Grimes, and Dallas first and a 2nd rounder probably gets it done.
gradyandrew wrote:Realgm is running that Denver is looking to trade Monte Morris. He would probably cost significant draft compensation but would be one of the better options we discussed. Reddish, Grimes, and Dallas first and a 2nd rounder probably gets it done.
I’m not sure that gets it done, plus i don’t want to trade grimes. in a couple of years he’s klay-lite imo
i’d roll with iq/rose/deuce/kemba this year, look for trade oppo’s, see about rokas down the line
Marv wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Realgm is running that Denver is looking to trade Monte Morris. He would probably cost significant draft compensation but would be one of the better options we discussed. Reddish, Grimes, and Dallas first and a 2nd rounder probably gets it done.
I’m not sure that gets it done, plus i don’t want to trade grimes. in a couple of years he’s klay-lite imo
i’d roll with iq/rose/deuce/kemba this year, look for trade oppo’s, see about rokas down the line
I was thinking that was too much. Cam and second is what I was thinking to start.
Way too much for Monte. I wanted us to draft him. I suspect there’s another 1 or 2 of him in this draft
Philc1 wrote:DJMUSIC wrote:Nalod wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:There is a belief that the FO's offseason plan to get a PG might be:
Plan A: trade up and get Jayden Ivey.
Plan B: sign Brunson
Plan C: trade for Brogdon
Trading up will cost alot but if the Knicks brass thinks Ivey can be a Garland or Ja, i guess eventually if it pans out everyone will get over it. If the cost is the 11th pick, a future 1st and Obi, how will you guys feel?
Is there a way to trade Randle to the hawks plus one 1st round pick for John Collins? The is a good chance Randle will have a bounce back year next year but i dont like the idea he might be a bad influence to the other young knicks.
Mitch/Bamba
John Collins
RJ
IQ/Grimes
IveyI like Ivey alot, i hope he develops his shooting if he somehow gets drafted by the knicks
was he a bad influence when they'd roll into town and get a gym for late night workouts?
Was he a bad influence on the yoot last year who progressed all seasons and finished up strong?
No.
Do fans know why he was salty?
Did team tune out its coach or stop playing hard?
No.
Did he not help up every player from the floor? No.
Did he maybe not see every player on teh floor? Maybe.
Do we give him any benefit of the doubt or tilt it all negative?
What about John Collins? Is he universally liked by his team? What about his game? Be careful, you might want Randle gone but Collins has his warts too.
If Knicks give up Obi for talented Ivey, PG
Obi going elsewhere will Haunt NY Franchise the next few yrs, since NYK need PG and need Obi as well !
You don’t have to worry about that because a package of Obi and the 11 pick isn’t getting a deal done for Ivey
And I like Obi and I agree, it’s a shame we have yet to see him with a functional pg yet in 2 years
well said..
Only way I'm giving yet into Obi deal is for a J.Morant "Game changer" Player
OF COURSE .. Grizzlies aint sending J.M anywhere. I know I'm crazy can't compare Morant to Obi in the first place
Thus I'd rather keep Obi but consider anyone else NOT named RJ Barett
NBA has history of KNICKS getting fleeced! in NBA trades so why not stay pat, LET Knicks be the one Swindle some NBA team in trades!
This notion of a pure PG is seemingly a fable? few John stocktons out there. Lets look at the two finalists. Marcus Smart a pure PG in the traditional sense? Not really.
Steph curry? He is a shoot first guard. A damn fine one but not a defined PG. Great players with handle are playmakers and if they kick out get assists. Luka a PG? Not really, just a modern Larry Bird.
I don’t want a PG, I want really good players who can make plays!!! Joker? Not a PG but a playmaker. Embiid? Nope. We call CP3 one because he 6-3? Nash? We called hm MVP, same for Steph whose range is his ability to pull out defenders. That he was crafty, strong, etc and can get by his man make him PG? Yoru not a guard in the NBA if you can’t get past perimeter defenders. Jah gets a lot of assits because he has the ball a ton and playmakes. His mates can shoot and they were fed.
Kobe ran with Derick Fishwer who was a bit slow. But he could shoot. Was kobe a PG? Jordan? Cuz paxton and Kerr were not. Pistol Pete? He was a PG or a wizard with the ball? LOL. Rubio was a pure PG cuz he was not a good shooter. Iverson was a short playmaker so we called him PG. Durant is Point forward. A playmaker.
Good players and I don’t care what we call them. Iq and RJ are playmakers. Not efficient yet.
Who to draft? Be good to pair RJ with one and long term have IQ off the bench. That means someone better than IQ!
More crap to toss on the wall.
i'm thinking it will be Ivey
Jalen seems all well and good to make the team more competitive etc., but he's not the guy to lead you very deep in playoffs impose his will etc.
Ivey has the chance to be that guy
I hear from folks who say "Ivey isn't a true PG" (I've said it myself), but when I read through all the posts of pretty knowledgeable fans, the argument is made that traditional PGs are no longer the way to go in the NBA, complete with a number of examples...and I tend to agree for the most part.
Maybe a better term would be "Floor General" since there's so much more to the game than being an incredible ball handler (Jeremy Lin) and able to distribute the ball to the hot hand (John Stockton avg 10+ assists per game).
When I think of Ivey, I think more of a "Floor General" than a traditional PG like the days of old with Isaiah Thomas, and even not that long ago, like Chris Paul and even Derrick Rose. Seems to me the "Floor General" has to see the whole floor, run the game, spread the floor, score at will if an opening exists, have a high percentage trey, and instinctively exploit any weaknesses of the other team. Someone like Magic Johnson maybe.
Can Ivey do that? That is the million dollar question running through my mind. And I'm not sure his career stats hint that he's the phenom he's being made out to be 
His stats do not blow me away:
BingBong wrote:I hear from folks who say "Ivey isn't a true PG" (I've said it myself), but when I read through all the posts of pretty knowledgeable fans, the argument is made that traditional PGs are no longer the way to go in the NBA, complete with a number of examples...and I tend to agree for the most part.Maybe a better term would be "Floor General" since there's so much more to the game than being an incredible ball handler (Jeremy Lin) and able to distribute the ball to the hot hand (John Stockton avg 10+ assists per game).
When I think of Ivey, I think more of a "Floor General" than a traditional PG like the days of old with Isaiah Thomas, and even not that long ago, like Chris Paul and even Derrick Rose. Seems to me the "Floor General" has to see the whole floor, run the game, spread the floor, score at will if an opening exists, have a high percentage trey, and instinctively exploit any weaknesses of the other team. Someone like Magic Johnson maybe.
Can Ivey do that? That is the million dollar question running through my mind. And I'm not sure his career stats hint that he's the phenom he's being made out to be
His stats do not blow me away:
I see where you are going and I agree that Ivey is not a prototypical PG. But I disagree with him being a floor general. To me, he's a scorer first. Someone who plays downhill. Hes in the combo guard category, similar to IQ. But I think the reason most people are intrigued, is because of his star potential, regardless of his position. On defense, he can guard multiple positions. And he plays downhill like RJ Barret. But if we draft Ivey, we have to surround him and RJ with shooters. Or the paint will get crowed again. We need a zone buster or 2. Seth Currey type player off the bench (Fourney maybe?).
