BingBong wrote:I hear from folks who say "Ivey isn't a true PG" (I've said it myself), but when I read through all the posts of pretty knowledgeable fans, the argument is made that traditional PGs are no longer the way to go in the NBA, complete with a number of examples...and I tend to agree for the most part.
Maybe a better term would be "Floor General" since there's so much more to the game than being an incredible ball handler (Jeremy Lin) and able to distribute the ball to the hot hand (John Stockton avg 10+ assists per game).
When I think of Ivey, I think more of a "Floor General" than a traditional PG like the days of old with Isaiah Thomas, and even not that long ago, like Chris Paul and even Derrick Rose. Seems to me the "Floor General" has to see the whole floor, run the game, spread the floor, score at will if an opening exists, have a high percentage trey, and instinctively exploit any weaknesses of the other team. Someone like Magic Johnson maybe.
Can Ivey do that? That is the million dollar question running through my mind. And I'm not sure his career stats hint that he's the phenom he's being made out to be
His stats do not blow me away:
I see where you are going and I agree that Ivey is not a prototypical PG. But I disagree with him being a floor general. To me, he's a scorer first. Someone who plays downhill. Hes in the combo guard category, similar to IQ. But I think the reason most people are intrigued, is because of his star potential, regardless of his position. On defense, he can guard multiple positions. And he plays downhill like RJ Barret. But if we draft Ivey, we have to surround him and RJ with shooters. Or the paint will get crowed again. We need a zone buster or 2. Seth Currey type player off the bench (Fourney maybe?).
Nalod@ 6/21/2022 6:45 PM
When we say “I feel we will draft”….Say instead “I hope we draft”.
Seems like the rumors get twisted into belief and then disappointment as if we let something go past us. Facts are not known. Nobody confirms or refutes the rumors. Each year drafts go without the big splash. If it happens, cool. If not, it was really not a thing. Fan pressure is not a thing. Im sure the kings want the pick bid up. Its just logic. But Ivey is not a sure thing and there is a price one pays, and another you pass on.
BigDaddyG@ 6/21/2022 11:34 PM
Eh, in to the next one.
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I'd rather him at $25mil than trade for Brogdon at $22mil per
How is Brogdon, who plays only 60% of games, is always injured, is aging, and has 3 years $22mil per happily reported by bball writers as having teams want to trade a top 10 pick for, where as Randle is considered a player where we'd have to give up a pick to drop- pretty sure the Pacers are BS-ing because they are pumping out that they've got all these deals and bidding wars at every opportunity.
martin@ 6/22/2022 9:49 AM
smackeddog wrote:How is Brogdon, who plays only 60% of games, is always injured, is aging, and has 3 years $22mil per happily reported by bball writers as having teams want to trade a top 10 pick for, where as Randle is considered a player where we'd have to give up a pick to drop- pretty sure the Pacers are BS-ing because they are pumping out that they've got all these deals and bidding wars at every opportunity.
Quite frankly, I have read all of the Knicks will include #11 in a Brodgon trade as: Knicks expiring players, #11 for Brogdon, #6 if the Pacers want to trade down to get out of Brogdon contract.
MS@ 6/22/2022 11:27 AM
Honestly, Brunson is young, savy and tough. We are super young right now.
Ideally I would like to trade Fournier, but if we call the Thunder, they would take the number 11 and dallas pick next year for Burks and Noel who expire. I think $20MM is the right number there.
I actually really like that team. Lot of shooting and toughness out there.
Philc1@ 6/22/2022 11:41 AM
martin wrote:
smackeddog wrote:How is Brogdon, who plays only 60% of games, is always injured, is aging, and has 3 years $22mil per happily reported by bball writers as having teams want to trade a top 10 pick for, where as Randle is considered a player where we'd have to give up a pick to drop- pretty sure the Pacers are BS-ing because they are pumping out that they've got all these deals and bidding wars at every opportunity.
Quite frankly, I have read all of the Knicks will include #11 in a Brodgon trade as: Knicks expiring players, #11 for Brogdon, #6 if the Pacers want to trade down to get out of Brogdon contract.
Pass on trading the 1st for Brogdon. If the pacers want expiring contracts like a combo of Rose and Noel plus a conditional future draft pick that’s fine
martin@ 6/22/2022 11:43 AM
I am in this boat of just riding with IQ
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Philc1 wrote:Stick with IQ and draft a developmental pg
They already have 2 of those: Rokas and McBride, they don't need another.
Philc1@ 6/22/2022 2:29 PM
martin wrote:
Philc1 wrote:Stick with IQ and draft a developmental pg
They already have 2 of those: Rokas and McBride, they don't need another.
Rokas is G-league fodder and Thibs only sees McBride as a 2
We can’t trust Rose to even be a backup for more than 40 games now
martin@ 6/22/2022 2:33 PM
Philc1 wrote:
martin wrote:
Philc1 wrote:Stick with IQ and draft a developmental pg
They already have 2 of those: Rokas and McBride, they don't need another.
Rokas is G-league fodder and Thibs only sees McBride as a 2
We can’t trust Rose to even be a backup for more than 40 games now
LOL no, you are not even close.
martin@ 6/22/2022 2:55 PM
martin wrote:
smackeddog wrote:How is Brogdon, who plays only 60% of games, is always injured, is aging, and has 3 years $22mil per happily reported by bball writers as having teams want to trade a top 10 pick for, where as Randle is considered a player where we'd have to give up a pick to drop- pretty sure the Pacers are BS-ing because they are pumping out that they've got all these deals and bidding wars at every opportunity.
Quite frankly, I have read all of the Knicks will include #11 in a Brodgon trade as: Knicks expiring players, #11 for Brogdon, #6 if the Pacers want to trade down to get out of Brogdon contract.
There it is, much better
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Rokas is G-league fodder and Thibs only sees McBride as a 2 We can’t trust Rose to even be a backup for more than 40 games now
Rokas is anything but "G-league fodder" and never played in the G-league. He's the best player in Europe and won the prestigious "EuroLeague Rising Star Award" in 2022 as well as 2X winner of "ELPA (EuroLeague Players Association) Best Young Player Award" (2021, 2022) as well as many other awards. Previous winners of the EuroLeague Rising Star Award were Luka Dončić, Andrea Bargnani, Danilo Gallinari, Ricky Rubio, etc.
He's the real deal and he's a PG and "floor general" who can shoot the lights out. There's a reason the Knicks drafted him ahead of Deuce and Sims. The Knicks' front office wants him to get more experience first. Personally, I think he should be getting experience with IQ, RJ, Obu, Grimes, etc., but the FO has him on hold. Also a problem with the money they have to pay him that is a problem with their cap situation as well as Barcelona won't let him play over here in the summer league. But he's ready and he should be in the garden if you ask me and he's itching to get over here. We got nothing to lose by handing him the keys.
Kemet@ 6/22/2022 6:42 PM
Philc1 wrote:
martin wrote:I am in this boat of just riding with IQ
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I'm sticking with combo-guard Quickley too. D.Rose & IQ in a lineup made Burks look like a star role-player. McBride's speed, passing-skills and defensive intensity are the PG the Knicks coach Thibs should've been developing a long side Barrett's & Randle's lazy defense this past season. Between coach Thibs luv for Randle, and Randle's luv to play a half-court offense on every Knicks possession .. the future dont look good.
Vmart@ 6/22/2022 7:28 PM
Kemet wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
martin wrote:I am in this boat of just riding with IQ
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I'm sticking with combo-guard Quickley too. D.Rose & IQ in a lineup made Burks look like a star role-player. McBride's speed, passing-skills and defensive intensity are the PG the Knicks coach Thibs should've been developing a long side Barrett's & Randle's lazy defense this past season. Between coach Thibs luv for Randle, and Randle's luv to play a half-court offense on every Knicks possession .. the future dont look good.
Why don’t I think the Knicks have a PG but a coach issue. The Knicks have a lame duck coach this year. He would have to make the playoffs and get past the first round to be even consider to comeback next year.
Philc1@ 6/23/2022 11:50 AM
Kemet wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
martin wrote:I am in this boat of just riding with IQ
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I'm sticking with combo-guard Quickley too. D.Rose & IQ in a lineup made Burks look like a star role-player. McBride's speed, passing-skills and defensive intensity are the PG the Knicks coach Thibs should've been developing a long side Barrett's & Randle's lazy defense this past season. Between coach Thibs luv for Randle, and Randle's luv to play a half-court offense on every Knicks possession .. the future dont look good.
Rose is 33 and coming off multiple ankle surgeries. We can’t count on him
Philc1@ 6/23/2022 11:51 AM
martin wrote:
martin wrote:
smackeddog wrote:How is Brogdon, who plays only 60% of games, is always injured, is aging, and has 3 years $22mil per happily reported by bball writers as having teams want to trade a top 10 pick for, where as Randle is considered a player where we'd have to give up a pick to drop- pretty sure the Pacers are BS-ing because they are pumping out that they've got all these deals and bidding wars at every opportunity.
Quite frankly, I have read all of the Knicks will include #11 in a Brodgon trade as: Knicks expiring players, #11 for Brogdon, #6 if the Pacers want to trade down to get out of Brogdon contract.
There it is, much better
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