Not even sure why the Spurs would even consider trading a 25yr old 6’4 star point guard but if so Knicks need to be all in! This dude is the truth. Hopefully the Knicks are playing chess, not checkers in making everyone think they signing Jalen Brunson.
Preach!! Although any trade right now would probably lose most of the young pieces needed for him to make a difference with.
I still don't even get why the Spurs have put him on the market. Do they even have another PG on team?
martin wrote:I still don't even get why the Spurs have put him on the market. Do they even have another PG on team?
I don’t think they put him on the market. I call bs on Jake’s story.
It seems strange that the Spurs would put him on the market but I have read two different reports stating that he is available at the right price, which is multiple 1st round picks. I think a trade of McBride and 3 first round picks would be enough. They might want IQ instead, but I we give up IQ, then I would only send out 2 first round picks.
According to a fair few of the podcasters his stats are misleading and they don't seem as high on him as you'd think- there's a reason the Spurs have been happily shopping him the past season or two. Think the argument is he's not a great PG (can't create too well), he's more of a SG that can't shoot or create very efficiently or something. And post ACL tear, he's very overrated as a defender and can't defend PGs. I don't understand it myself!
smackeddog wrote:According to a fair few of the podcasters his stats are misleading and they don't seem as high on him as you'd think- there's a reason the Spurs have been happily shopping him the past season or two. Think the argument is he's not a great PG (can't create too well), he's more of a SG that can't shoot or create very efficiently or something. And post ACL tear, he's very overrated as a defender and can't defend PGs. I don't understand it myself!
yeah I thought that's what maybe was going on. thanks
martin wrote:smackeddog wrote:According to a fair few of the podcasters his stats are misleading and they don't seem as high on him as you'd think- there's a reason the Spurs have been happily shopping him the past season or two. Think the argument is he's not a great PG (can't create too well), he's more of a SG that can't shoot or create very efficiently or something. And post ACL tear, he's very overrated as a defender and can't defend PGs. I don't understand it myself!
yeah I thought that's what maybe was going on. thanks
Well, if his stats are misleading, then we definitely should not give up too much for him, but I think he still is probably better than our current PGs. And, he would only cost us about $17 mil per year for the next two years. Much cheaper than Brunson.
TheGame wrote:martin wrote:smackeddog wrote:According to a fair few of the podcasters his stats are misleading and they don't seem as high on him as you'd think- there's a reason the Spurs have been happily shopping him the past season or two. Think the argument is he's not a great PG (can't create too well), he's more of a SG that can't shoot or create very efficiently or something. And post ACL tear, he's very overrated as a defender and can't defend PGs. I don't understand it myself!
yeah I thought that's what maybe was going on. thanks
Well, if his stats are misleading, then we definitely should not give up too much for him, but I think he still is probably better than our current PGs. And, he would only cost us about $17 mil per year for the next two years. Much cheaper than Brunson.
You are quibbling over ~$5+M for 2 years. And then Muarry will be UFA. What's the cost after that for a PG who is not as PG'y as Brunson?
martin wrote:TheGame wrote:martin wrote:smackeddog wrote:According to a fair few of the podcasters his stats are misleading and they don't seem as high on him as you'd think- there's a reason the Spurs have been happily shopping him the past season or two. Think the argument is he's not a great PG (can't create too well), he's more of a SG that can't shoot or create very efficiently or something. And post ACL tear, he's very overrated as a defender and can't defend PGs. I don't understand it myself!
yeah I thought that's what maybe was going on. thanks
Well, if his stats are misleading, then we definitely should not give up too much for him, but I think he still is probably better than our current PGs. And, he would only cost us about $17 mil per year for the next two years. Much cheaper than Brunson.
You are quibbling over ~$5+M for 2 years. And then Muarry will be UFA. What's the cost after that for a PG who is not as PG'y as Brunson?
I am not quibbling over $5 million. The Knicks are reportedly going to offer Brunson $25 mil a year. That is a $8 mil difference over the next two years for someone who may not be as good as Murray. Brunson has never averaged 9 assists a game. He only average 6.3 assists without Luka and no one would suggest Brunson is a lockdown defender even if you can say he is solid. Thus, you have to credibly ask is he worth $25 mil a year because that is getting close to max territory. If Murray does not prove to be a long term solution, we have two years to find his replacement but we at least did not pay him the max.
This may all be academic because if Murray costs us 3 picks and we can get Brunson without giving up picks then you have to factor that in. I really am not against Brunson but I also am not sold on him. Knicks should be exploring all options.
TheGame wrote:martin wrote:TheGame wrote:martin wrote:smackeddog wrote:According to a fair few of the podcasters his stats are misleading and they don't seem as high on him as you'd think- there's a reason the Spurs have been happily shopping him the past season or two. Think the argument is he's not a great PG (can't create too well), he's more of a SG that can't shoot or create very efficiently or something. And post ACL tear, he's very overrated as a defender and can't defend PGs. I don't understand it myself!
yeah I thought that's what maybe was going on. thanks
Well, if his stats are misleading, then we definitely should not give up too much for him, but I think he still is probably better than our current PGs. And, he would only cost us about $17 mil per year for the next two years. Much cheaper than Brunson.
You are quibbling over ~$5+M for 2 years. And then Muarry will be UFA. What's the cost after that for a PG who is not as PG'y as Brunson?
I am not quibbling over $5 million. The Knicks are reportedly going to offer Brunson $25 mil a year. That is a $8 mil difference over the next two years for someone who may not be as good as Murray. Brunson has never averaged 9 assists a game. He only average 6.3 assists without Luka and no one would suggest Brunson is a lockdown defender even if you can say he is solid. Thus, you have to credibly ask is he worth $25 mil a year because that is getting close to max territory. If Murray does not prove to be a long term solution, we have two years to find his replacement but we at least did not pay him the max.
This may all be academic because if Murray costs us 3 picks and we can get Brunson without giving up picks then you have to factor that in. I really am not against Brunson but I also am not sold on him. Knicks should be exploring all options.
So let's level set this one.
You took stats for more than this past year, going back 4 years (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-b... and compared that to what Murray did just this year.
This past year stats Brunson without Luca: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-b...
Jalen Brunson averaged 20.4 points, 7.5 assists and 3.9 rebounds in 17 games without Luka Doncic this season.
Brunson was *perhaps* the second best player on a Dallas team that went to conference finals. In 3 games against Utah in the playoffs without Luca, he did VERY well.
smackeddog wrote:According to a fair few of the podcasters his stats are misleading and they don't seem as high on him as you'd think- there's a reason the Spurs have been happily shopping him the past season or two. Think the argument is he's not a great PG (can't create too well), he's more of a SG that can't shoot or create very efficiently or something. And post ACL tear, he's very overrated as a defender and can't defend PGs. I don't understand it myself!
Earlier in the year when it came out that he may be available. His advanced stats came off weaker than I expected honestly. This past season is the first time his offensive rating was better than his defensive rating. Doesn't really hold a high TS%, and this past season is the first time he has held a WS48 over .100(.149). Him not being a strong 3 point shooter. Would need to retool the roster around him since we don't have enough quality shooters to space the floor from our bigs. Just plugging him in with RJ, Randle, Mitch isn't a sure fit.
So IF the Spurs really are willing to move him. They most likely don't love his analytics and feel like they can get someone to overpay for him.
He will also be looking for a max contract the yr after next. So if they don't love him as a franchise player, they would want to max out his value now. Avoiding losing some value by having him be in the final year of his deal.
In the 2 or 3 games Doncic missed in the Jazz series Brunson had play maker PG Dinwiddie in the lineup alongside him.
I would've kept Kemba if the Spurs were willing to take a couple future first round picks and Randle or Barrett in a trade for Dejounte Murray.
I also would've tried offering Randle and the 11 pick to the Pistons for Grant and the 5th pick.
Holding on to Randle & Barrett after their 2021-22 season will be the Knicks Down-Fall next-season, and the season after. Their trade worth decreased tremendously after one season.
The two players are the same as Dolan holding on to Melo .. When the Knicks never needed a half court offense Melo who became famous as a Knicks ball-stopper, when they had a decent 20-10 transition PF in Amare.
Spurs want the farm. Pass
Would much rather continue to clear cap, sign Brunson or Jones and keep our young guys like RJ, Mitch, Obi and IQ
TheGame wrote:It seems strange that the Spurs would put him on the market but I have read two different reports stating that he is available at the right price, which is multiple 1st round picks. I think a trade of McBride and 3 first round picks would be enough. They might want IQ instead, but I we give up IQ, then I would only send out 2 first round picks.
Murray and his agent must have told the spurs they want into a bigger market. Also, Spurs really never recovered from waiting too long to try to trade Kawahi Leonard
Well here are his stats...
GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
68 34.8 46.2 32.7 79.4 8.3 9.2 0.3 2.0 2.0 2.6 21.1 (2021-22)
320 25.8 45.5 33.0 77.1 6.0 4.8 0.3 1.4 1.9 1.9 12.5 (Career)
He may be a high usage/volume type of player - but you can't deny his defensive effort, passing numbers and his shooting percentages are decent. He plays downhill as well - which would prob help RJ, Toppin and everyone on the roster under 31.
martin wrote:I still don't even get why the Spurs have put him on the market. Do they even have another PG on team?
It makes no sense. Super cheap deal too.
Philc1 wrote:TheGame wrote:It seems strange that the Spurs would put him on the market but I have read two different reports stating that he is available at the right price, which is multiple 1st round picks. I think a trade of McBride and 3 first round picks would be enough. They might want IQ instead, but I we give up IQ, then I would only send out 2 first round picks.
Murray and his agent must have told the spurs they want into a bigger market. Also, Spurs really never recovered from waiting too long to try to trade Kawahi Leonard
Makes a ton of sense. Seems like he could well be preferable to Brunson.
I also want the FO to focus on trading for Murray then continue shedding salaries so they can just sign Lavine. I just want RJ, Obi, iQ, grimes and mitch on the team after all the wheeling and dealing is done.
One of the hardest positions to get for a team is a super fast PG with size who can run a team.... and the Spurs want to trade that guy?
Does this give anyone pause about the player?
martin wrote:One of the hardest positions to get for a team is a super fast PG with size who can run a team.... and the Spurs want to trade that guy?Does this give anyone pause about the player?
Yes - but also, this might be a young man who wants to get paid and play in a bigger market. San Antonio is a nice city, but it's not for everyone (Like So Cal is!) and maybe he wants to live/play somewhere bigger?
And was posted above - maybe the Spurs want to maximize their cash out.
