Knicks · ****S OUT BOYS BRUNSON IS COMING HOME! (page 12)

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:lately i've been thinking of the Brunson Conley comparison

Younger Conley probably better at D, Brunson probably better in midrange and near rim

https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_...

Brunson’s tape last year he reminds me of baron davis. At least that may be his ceiling

Baron Davis was far more athletically explosive then Brunson. Brunson in my opinion is more like Mike Bibby. Mike was hell of a player! Durable until his ATL days at age 32. By the time he got to us he was done.
Baron in Charlotte was a physically dominant guard who exploded to the rim. Think Kyrie but stronger. THat kind of player. Bibby was crafty with good range. Brunson a hybrid of Tony Parker (pts in the paint) and Bibby. Still early in his career to fully evaluate. Quick, fundamentally sound, good vision and good leadership.

MaTT4281 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:lately i've been thinking of the Brunson Conley comparison

Younger Conley probably better at D, Brunson probably better in midrange and near rim

https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_...

Brunson’s tape last year he reminds me of baron davis. At least that may be his ceiling

Baron Davis was far more athletically explosive then Brunson. Brunson in my opinion is more like Mike Bibby. Mike was hell of a player! Durable until his ATL days at age 32. By the time he got to us he was done.
Baron in Charlotte was a physically dominant guard who exploded to the rim. Think Kyrie but stronger. THat kind of player. Bibby was crafty with good range. Brunson a hybrid of Tony Parker (pts in the paint) and Bibby. Still early in his career to fully evaluate. Quick, fundamentally sound, good vision and good leadership.

I used to love Baaron Davis, I was so psyched when we landed him (even if he was physically diminished)- devastating to watch him blow out his knee in the playoffs, especially so close to watching Shump tear his ACL

MaTT4281 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:lately i've been thinking of the Brunson Conley comparison

Younger Conley probably better at D, Brunson probably better in midrange and near rim

https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_...

Brunson’s tape last year he reminds me of baron davis. At least that may be his ceiling

Baron Davis was far more athletically explosive then Brunson. Brunson in my opinion is more like Mike Bibby. Mike was hell of a player! Durable until his ATL days at age 32. By the time he got to us he was done.
Baron in Charlotte was a physically dominant guard who exploded to the rim. Think Kyrie but stronger. THat kind of player. Bibby was crafty with good range. Brunson a hybrid of Tony Parker (pts in the paint) and Bibby. Still early in his career to fully evaluate. Quick, fundamentally sound, good vision and good leadership.

Good catch! truth is DM is more akin to Davis than Brunson.

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:lately i've been thinking of the Brunson Conley comparison

Younger Conley probably better at D, Brunson probably better in midrange and near rim

https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_...

Brunson’s tape last year he reminds me of baron davis. At least that may be his ceiling

Baron Davis was far more athletically explosive then Brunson. Brunson in my opinion is more like Mike Bibby. Mike was hell of a player! Durable until his ATL days at age 32. By the time he got to us he was done.
Baron in Charlotte was a physically dominant guard who exploded to the rim. Think Kyrie but stronger. THat kind of player. Bibby was crafty with good range. Brunson a hybrid of Tony Parker (pts in the paint) and Bibby. Still early in his career to fully evaluate. Quick, fundamentally sound, good vision and good leadership.

Those Bibby Kings teams were up there with the Artest Pacer teams in terms of non-Knicks teams I really liked at the time!

Weird to think we had both Bibby and Baron Davis on the Knicks at the same time! As usual for the last season of their careers!

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:lately i've been thinking of the Brunson Conley comparison

Younger Conley probably better at D, Brunson probably better in midrange and near rim

https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_...

Brunson’s tape last year he reminds me of baron davis. At least that may be his ceiling

Baron Davis was far more athletically explosive then Brunson. Brunson in my opinion is more like Mike Bibby. Mike was hell of a player! Durable until his ATL days at age 32. By the time he got to us he was done.
Baron in Charlotte was a physically dominant guard who exploded to the rim. Think Kyrie but stronger. THat kind of player. Bibby was crafty with good range. Brunson a hybrid of Tony Parker (pts in the paint) and Bibby. Still early in his career to fully evaluate. Quick, fundamentally sound, good vision and good leadership.

Those Bibby Kings teams were up there with the Artest Pacer teams in terms of non-Knicks teams I really liked at the time!

Weird to think we had both Bibby and Baron Davis on the Knicks at the same time! As usual for the last season of their careers!

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:lately i've been thinking of the Brunson Conley comparison

Younger Conley probably better at D, Brunson probably better in midrange and near rim

https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_...

Brunson’s tape last year he reminds me of baron davis. At least that may be his ceiling

Baron Davis was far more athletically explosive then Brunson. Brunson in my opinion is more like Mike Bibby. Mike was hell of a player! Durable until his ATL days at age 32. By the time he got to us he was done.
Baron in Charlotte was a physically dominant guard who exploded to the rim. Think Kyrie but stronger. THat kind of player. Bibby was crafty with good range. Brunson a hybrid of Tony Parker (pts in the paint) and Bibby. Still early in his career to fully evaluate. Quick, fundamentally sound, good vision and good leadership.

Those Bibby Kings teams were up there with the Artest Pacer teams in terms of non-Knicks teams I really liked at the time!

Weird to think we had both Bibby and Baron Davis on the Knicks at the same time! As usual for the last season of their careers!

Add to Doc Rivers amd 2018 Maurice Cheeks as past prime ones. A whole thread can be devoted to this!

Jason Kidd, T-Mac, Steve Francis, Derrick Rose, Metta World Peace, Glen Rice, Penny Hardaway, Antonio McDyess, Mutombo… the list is endless- crazy when you list them all

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:lately i've been thinking of the Brunson Conley comparison

Younger Conley probably better at D, Brunson probably better in midrange and near rim

https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_...

Brunson’s tape last year he reminds me of baron davis. At least that may be his ceiling

Baron Davis was far more athletically explosive then Brunson. Brunson in my opinion is more like Mike Bibby. Mike was hell of a player! Durable until his ATL days at age 32. By the time he got to us he was done.
Baron in Charlotte was a physically dominant guard who exploded to the rim. Think Kyrie but stronger. THat kind of player. Bibby was crafty with good range. Brunson a hybrid of Tony Parker (pts in the paint) and Bibby. Still early in his career to fully evaluate. Quick, fundamentally sound, good vision and good leadership.

Those Bibby Kings teams were up there with the Artest Pacer teams in terms of non-Knicks teams I really liked at the time!

Weird to think we had both Bibby and Baron Davis on the Knicks at the same time! As usual for the last season of their careers!

Add to Doc Rivers amd 2018 Maurice Cheeks as past prime ones. A whole thread can be devoted to this!

Jason Kidd, T-Mac, Steve Francis, Derrick Rose, Metta World Peace, Glen Rice, Penny Hardaway, Antonio McDyess, Mutombo… the list is endless- crazy when you list them all

Rolando Blackman, Grandma, Vin Baker, Kiki, Clarence Weatherspoon, Tony Campbell, Mark Jackson ( the second and return), Joachim Noah. Didn't they also have Willie Anderson years after he hit the wall? Shannon Anderson also was washed when he got here. Quentin Richardson.... 🤮

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BigDaddyG wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:lately i've been thinking of the Brunson Conley comparison

Younger Conley probably better at D, Brunson probably better in midrange and near rim

https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_...

Brunson’s tape last year he reminds me of baron davis. At least that may be his ceiling

Baron Davis was far more athletically explosive then Brunson. Brunson in my opinion is more like Mike Bibby. Mike was hell of a player! Durable until his ATL days at age 32. By the time he got to us he was done.
Baron in Charlotte was a physically dominant guard who exploded to the rim. Think Kyrie but stronger. THat kind of player. Bibby was crafty with good range. Brunson a hybrid of Tony Parker (pts in the paint) and Bibby. Still early in his career to fully evaluate. Quick, fundamentally sound, good vision and good leadership.

Those Bibby Kings teams were up there with the Artest Pacer teams in terms of non-Knicks teams I really liked at the time!

Weird to think we had both Bibby and Baron Davis on the Knicks at the same time! As usual for the last season of their careers!

Add to Doc Rivers amd 2018 Maurice Cheeks as past prime ones. A whole thread can be devoted to this!

Jason Kidd, T-Mac, Steve Francis, Derrick Rose, Metta World Peace, Glen Rice, Penny Hardaway, Antonio McDyess, Mutombo… the list is endless- crazy when you list them all

Rolando Blackman, Grandma, Vin Baker, Kiki, Clarence Weatherspoon, Tony Campbell, Mark Jackson ( the second and return), Joachim Noah. Didn't they also have Willie Anderson years after he hit the wall? Shannon Anderson also was washed when he got here. Quentin Richardson.... 🤮

Grandma had a solid 3 years here before he was done

BigDaddyG wrote:

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Knicks finally sign a blue chip UFA

The league launches an investigation

Can’t make this stuff up

martin wrote:

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What are the Vegas odds? I think the Knicks surprise people if their healthy.

Philc1 wrote:
Knicks finally sign a blue chip UFA

The league launches an investigation

Can’t make this stuff up

Ah, screw them, at most we will lose a second round pick.

I don't think the league specifically picks on the Knicks, though.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Philc1 wrote:
Knicks finally sign a blue chip UFA

The league launches an investigation

Can’t make this stuff up

Ah, screw them, at most we will lose a second round pick.

I don't think the league specifically picks on the Knicks, though.

Well, League as I heard reported could step that up if egregious. When the league found that Timberwolves had given a written promise to Joe Smith that if he sighed to a deal that was short the first two years then he would be taken care of they had smoking gun and they lost 3 first rounders and Mchale was suspended. It set them back years. Many talking heads say that because the signing was reported prior and the league needs to look into it. I think we all saw this coming and the rumor mill leading up to it was very intense.
With Joe Smith they had a smoking gun. They had it in writing!!!! Now they can look at phones.
We'll see...........

Nalod wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Philc1 wrote:
Knicks finally sign a blue chip UFA

The league launches an investigation

Can’t make this stuff up

Ah, screw them, at most we will lose a second round pick.

I don't think the league specifically picks on the Knicks, though.

Well, League as I heard reported could step that up if egregious. When the league found that Timberwolves had given a written promise to Joe Smith that if he sighed to a deal that was short the first two years then he would be taken care of they had smoking gun and they lost 3 first rounders and Mchale was suspended. It set them back years. Many talking heads say that because the signing was reported prior and the league needs to look into it. I think we all saw this coming and the rumor mill leading up to it was very intense.
With Joe Smith they had a smoking gun. They had it in writing!!!! Now they can look at phones.
We'll see...........

Honestly, if it is found that we did something as egregious as the Wolves did with Joe Smith, we should get the punishment we deserve. I love the Knicks, but fair play is important.

What would suck is us being made an example of a practice that the league tolerated before, but now has decided to clamp down on.

The good news is that in the past some thaampering investigations resulted in teams being cleared, so the league is not bent on extracting its piece of flesh regardless.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Nalod wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Philc1 wrote:
Knicks finally sign a blue chip UFA

The league launches an investigation

Can’t make this stuff up

Ah, screw them, at most we will lose a second round pick.

I don't think the league specifically picks on the Knicks, though.

Well, League as I heard reported could step that up if egregious. When the league found that Timberwolves had given a written promise to Joe Smith that if he sighed to a deal that was short the first two years then he would be taken care of they had smoking gun and they lost 3 first rounders and Mchale was suspended. It set them back years. Many talking heads say that because the signing was reported prior and the league needs to look into it. I think we all saw this coming and the rumor mill leading up to it was very intense.
With Joe Smith they had a smoking gun. They had it in writing!!!! Now they can look at phones.
We'll see...........

Honestly, if it is found that we did something as egregious as the Wolves did with Joe Smith, we should get the punishment we deserve. I love the Knicks, but fair play is important.

What would suck is us being made an example of a practice that the league tolerated before, but now has decided to clamp down on.

The good news is that in the past some thaampering investigations resulted in teams being cleared, so the league is not bent on extracting its piece of flesh regardless.

My point is a 2nd round pick has been the norm, but it could be different. I'd have to assume the team was careful given the family ties that particular to Sam the agent being Leons kid, Dad, etc. They can check phone records, but don't fathers and sons talk? Texts? That's another story but use a burner phone perhaps.
Again, heard on a podcast the showing of Randle with from office sitting down on the floor during Dallas/Utah playoff game kind of pissed some around the league off. WE'll know in due time.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Philc1 wrote:
Knicks finally sign a blue chip UFA

The league launches an investigation

Can’t make this stuff up

Ah, screw them, at most we will lose a second round pick.

I don't think the league specifically picks on the Knicks, though.

Really? 1 top 3 pick in 20 years with by far the league’s worst record, free agents avoiding us and now a bs investigation because we did what the lakers, Heat and bulls get to do every other year?

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Nalod wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Philc1 wrote:
Knicks finally sign a blue chip UFA

The league launches an investigation

Can’t make this stuff up

Ah, screw them, at most we will lose a second round pick.

I don't think the league specifically picks on the Knicks, though.

Well, League as I heard reported could step that up if egregious. When the league found that Timberwolves had given a written promise to Joe Smith that if he sighed to a deal that was short the first two years then he would be taken care of they had smoking gun and they lost 3 first rounders and Mchale was suspended. It set them back years. Many talking heads say that because the signing was reported prior and the league needs to look into it. I think we all saw this coming and the rumor mill leading up to it was very intense.
With Joe Smith they had a smoking gun. They had it in writing!!!! Now they can look at phones.
We'll see...........

Honestly, if it is found that we did something as egregious as the Wolves did with Joe Smith, we should get the punishment we deserve. I love the Knicks, but fair play is important.

What would suck is us being made an example of a practice that the league tolerated before, but now has decided to clamp down on.

The good news is that in the past some thaampering investigations resulted in teams being cleared, so the league is not bent on extracting its piece of flesh regardless.

How about silver’s special punishment for us be that we lose our best player by far Julius Randle?

That would be interesting

Film Study: Jalen Brunson brings off-the-dribble success to New York

Film Study: Jalen Brunson brings off-the-dribble success to New York
One of the NBA's top pick-and-roll performers, Jalen Brunson should help kickstart the Knicks' below-average offense.

John Schuhmann
John Schuhmann
Archive
September 13, 2022 12:16 PM

Last season, Jalen Brunson averaged 16.3 points, 3.9 rebounds and 4.8 assists per game with Dallas.

It’s been a long time.

The last time the New York Knicks had a league-average-or-better offense was 2013-14, when their starting point guard was Raymond Felton. They haven’t really been close since then, having scored at least 1.1 fewer points per 100 possessions than the league average in each of the last eight seasons. And the Knicks are one of two teams — the Orlando Magic (10 straight years) are the other — that have ranked in the bottom 10 in offensive efficiency in each of the last four years.

A year ago, the Knicks attempted to upgrade their offense by adding two guards — Evan Fournier and Kemba Walker — in free agency. It didn’t work, and the team actually took a step backward offensively while seeing a bigger drop-off on defense. After finishing fourth in the East in 2020-21, the Knicks finished six games out of the Play-In Tournament chase.

This year, the Knicks are trying again. Fournier is still around, but Walker has been replaced by 26-year-old Jalen Brunson, one of the most efficient pick-and-roll scorers in the league.

Here are some notes, numbers and film on what Brunson brings to the Big Apple …

1. Efficiency inside the arc
Over the last two seasons, Brunson has scored 1.07 points per possession as a pick-and-roll ball-handler. That mark ranks third among 113 players with at least 250 ball-handler possessions over the last two seasons, according to Synergy play-type tracking.

Most points per possession, pick-and-roll ball-handler possessions, last 2 seasons

Player		GP	Poss.	Poss/G	Points	PPP	FGM	FGA	FG%
Kawhi Leonard	52	295	5.7	327	1.11	119	230	51.7%
Stephen Curry	127	898	7.1	966	1.08	317	696	45.5%
Jalen Brunson	147	650	4.4	696	1.07	294	542	54.2%
Damian Lillard	96	1,095	11.4	1,138	1.04	370	860	43.0%
Kevin Durant	90	375	4.2	388	1.03	132	272	48.5%
Minimum 250 possessions (113 players)
via Synergy tracking

The other players in that top five are top-tier superstars. Brunson is right there among them and there’s actually room for improvement.

Note that Brunson’s field goal percentage on pick-and-roll ball-handler possessions is higher (by a pretty healthy margin) than the other four players in the top five. It is also the highest of all 113 players with at least 250 ball-handler possessions over the last two years. While the other four players in that top five each had higher free throw rates and 3-point rates, Brunson’s off-the-dribble success mostly came with 2-point shots.

Of his 412 pull-up jumpers last season, 332 (81%) were 2-point attempts. That was the 25th highest rate among 171 players who attempted at least 100 pull-ups total. His 48.5% on pull-up 2-pointers was well above the league average (41.2%) and ranked 14th among 114 with at least 100 attempts.

Chris Paul is the king of the short pull-up. In each of the last three seasons, he’s been the only player to shoot 52% or better on at least 400 pull-up 2-point attempts. And Brunson can sometimes look like a lefty CP3, snaking around a pick to get to a space where he can get his shot …

Jalen Brunson short jumper vs. New York

But (at this point in their careers) Brunson is better at getting all the way to the basket than Paul …

Jalen Brunson drive past Chris Paul

And he’s got moves if he’s stopped before he gets all the way there …

If Brunson can draw some more fouls and turn some of those 2s into 3-pointers, he can be even more efficient. But Brunson’s 31.3% on pull-up 3s was below the league average (32.8%) and ranked just 71st among 105 players with at least 75 attempts. In the playoffs, he was just 9-for-32 (28%) on pull-up 3s, 20th among 29 players with at least 20 attempts.

He doesn’t look uncomfortable shooting pull-up 3s …

But the results aren’t there yet.

Even with some improvement beyond the arc, Brunson will have to prove that he can remain as efficient off the dribble at a higher volume. Playing with Luka Doncic, he averaged just 4.4 ball-handler possessions per game over the last two seasons. His 5.0 ball-handler possessions per game last season ranked just 42nd among players who played at least 35 games.

With Doncic out, Brunson did average 32 points over the first three games of the Mavs’ first-round series against the Utah Jazz. And in doing that, he scored 41 points on 30 pick-and-roll ball-handler possessions (1.37 per), according to Synergy.

We’ll see if he gets that much usage in New York. Overall, Brunson was less efficient when he was on the floor without Doncic (true shooting percentage of 56.4%, counting regular season and playoffs) than he was when they were on the floor together (59.2%).

If Brunson takes some ball-handler possessions away from RJ Barrett, that would probably be good for the Knicks overall. Barrett should improve, but his 0.77 points per ball-handler possession over the last two seasons ranks 105th among those 113 players with at least 250 possessions (just below former Knick Elfrid Payton). And he’s actually averaged more ball-handler possessions per game (5.5) than Brunson (4.4).

Brunson is a sniper from the corner (.503) that makes him a really valuable spot up player when Randle is pounding the ball around