we have a problem with the PF position
Randle had a poor season (he is not a bad player)-
his stock is lowOBI had some great moments -
his stock is highI dont like the idea of keeping them both
I think one of them has to GO
I dont have a problem trading OBI with 3-4 picks for a star SF-SG (OG,MITCHEL)
and have a great starting 5 : JB,RJ,OG,JR,MR
I'm not sure OBI will ever be the player RANDLE is
Knicks should sign recently waived Isiah Roby as Obi's back up and trade Randal for a first rounder and a second rounder into a team with cap space or a TPE.
If we only look at the box score, sure you can say Randle is a talent and leaps better than Obi. But Obi is a talent and the eye tells all.
When you watch them play - Obi is INFECTIOUS with joy, great person, team player, etc.
To address your last point "I'm not sure OBI will ever be the player RANDLE is"
Agree.
Obi will NEVER:
Give NY the middle finger
Be a selfish player
Be a mentally weak individual
And ON AND ON.
Randle is not made for N.Y. Send him to a small market team. I can't put into words how most Knicks fans just despise Randle (and with Reason.)
If we trade Obi (and keep Randle) management will reap what they deserve and lose fans.
Been a Knicks fan for too long to look a gift horse in the mouth.
I expect Randle to return with a better attitude and a reduced role.
If money matters in this crazy inflation off season better NBA ratings thru the playoffs the money will keep going up and his deal might be a bargain.
Might. It depends on his play, and that the joyful OBI can play up to those last 5 games off the bench and create an issue where he or randle gets traded. Not because one or the other is not good but both are exceling! And the team is winning!!!
Win-win!
So much of a good team comes down to chemistry and getting the right five guys to work together like a well oiled machine. I'm not sure Randle fits that description. He's a star-type player, he just lacks the chemistry needed to make everyone on the floor better. Don't know what's sticking in his craw, but he seems to be unhappy with the players around him and the coaching staff. Could be ego, could just be he likes to pout when he's not the center of attention. Whatever it is, he's not making the team around him better.
If we traded Randle, we could rotate Obi and Hart at the PF position. Hart is listed in most publications as a PF more often than a center and he can shoot when given the opportunity and passes like a point guard. He can spread the floor, unlike Randle. Sims could back up Mitch and Hart could go both ways as a center or PF. When the Knicks obtained Hart, I wondered if it was more of a move to replace Randle than Noel (most likely wrong about that, but I wonder). Of course, trades are going to be frozen in time until the whole KD/Kyrie situation is resolved. Randle is a high-value trading piece that should be dangled out there to hook some team before he turns into a cancer for the whole team.
Dumbest thing this current regime did was not trade Randle in the offseason immediately after drafting Obi. And one of the dumbest things this current regime continues to do is not trading Randle this offseason. Don't they realize Randle is a lost cause? He's not going to get better. This hope he 'returns to form' is fools gold and wishful thinking. He is who he is. Add his poor character and selfish attitude and pouting on the court, he's become a poison to this team that is trying to build. With Randle still here 'trying to redeem himself', all he'll be doing is putting Obi on the bench for 15 mpg and taking shots and opportunities away from RJ and Brunson. Randle doesn't fit anymore.
I didn't like Randle's attitude last year, but I can understand it given all the hate in the press and fan base. It can get a dude depressed. The problem is US, the NYK fans who put so much pressure on guys to perform. Not many can hack it here. Randle was soaking it up when the feelings were positive...but he crumbled in adversity. That won't fly in MSG.
My main hoops-related problem with him is that he's a ball stopper who hasn't shown an ability to play off ball. That will fail with a PG like Jalen, and Obi would thrive with that type of ball dominant PG.
That's enough to know who should stay and who should go...but the age thing also matters.
The FO might have considered trading Randle. Flipping off the fans, probably didnt help. Dont believe that would be an impediment if he's playing well this season. Puts last season behind him.
Randle can be a ball stopper, he can also be a very effective uptempo player, as he was in 20/21.
He was leading the break, as opposed to slowly bringing the ball upcourt. He went from playing fast, and out of control, when he first got here. To faster, with more assists.
If Randle can play with pace this season, keep the turnovers down, we will do well, if Randle is traded, or still on the roster.
Love this story line.
how do we know he'd he or any other fan can handle when boo'd?
Players talk shit all the time. To fans, fans to them, etc. He told them to STFU after a basket in a game they came from behind vs. boston. The RJ clutch shot game.
I'd rather he do that than just take it.
Do I like his defense lapse when complaining? No. Do all players do that? no. sometimes? Maybe?
Did he not hack it but still put up 20-10? Yes. Can he improve his efficiency? Yeah, thats on him and Thibs.
ball stopper? I get that. but its lopped in with efficiency. Rebounding? That takes effort.
His 3pt shot was league avg. I like it to be better.
Off balance shooting? Bad habits? Injuries?
Less is more.........Yeah I'd like more OBI and see what he can do.
Stretch Randle with 4 years left. comically ignorant suggestion.
Are knicks trying to trade him? I don't know. I suppose for the right price anyone can be.
Do some fans know the back story to his saltiness? That he regressed and cannot move forward?
Will we ever know or do we just do the "he can't hack it here, but he can in smaller city cuz they not as Mecca-ish there".
His play will tell the story. Winning or not will tell the story. He is one of the story lines from last year that contributed to our regression. But its not the only one.
Knicks could wait till trade deadline to see how both players mesh with Brunson. Like the idea of a stretch athletic 4 like Obi, his 3pt shot needs to be more consistent. Randle like or not is our most talented player.. might excel in a secondary role to RJ with Brunson laying the groundwork.
my hope is Brunson helps them answer the question of keeping/trading Randle. Have to answer that this year? Ideally.
I don't think we have to solve anything just yet... while Toppin has proven he can play, I don't believe he's clearly outperformed Randle yet
That said, I do think this team might be better with Obi as the PF over Randle. Randle is used to the ball flowing through him. I am willing to bet they want the offense flowing through Brunson now. Might as well give Brunson a target like Topping, who will keep running and running
A Slow Pace (Halfcourt offense) tempo lineup are what PG Randle brings to the Knicks.
An above the rim fast-tempo (transition) lineup are what PF Obi Toppin brings to the Knicks.
Both Randle & Obi's defense are poor.
It's difficult to evaluate Obi Toppin performance when averaging 14 or less minute per game for two seasons.
However, a disgruntle Randle has never shown much leadership or mentor to any of the Knicks young core players. And Barrett has pick up to many of Randles Bad habits (Like not practicing FT shots).
Plus Randle never coming out the game after playing bad for 7 or 9 straight minutes.
After 30 minutes Randle is useless, either he's tired (turnovers), or can't compete going down the stretch of games vs .500 teams.
Hopefully, Randle & Brunson sharing the PG duties in a lineup next season work out better than Payton & Kemba ....
I don’t see how the Knicks can keep both going into the season. Thibs will never play Obi minutes as long as Julius is on the team. If they decide to keep Randle, then I would move Obi now because playing 8 minutes is not going to increase his value at the deadline. I am big Obi fan but Thibs loves Randle and I would be surprised if they trade Randle this summer.
Bottom line we've seen 3 seasons of Randle (2 bad, 1 great) and have enough information to make a decision on Randle. Toppin may turn out to be very good or just a decent energy spark off the bench... we won't know until he plays more. He won't play more with Randle there so it seems like an easy decision to make. We're going to use the first half of the season to cater to Randle to try to pump up his trade value and if he does - then dump him at the deadline. If he doesn't - it's another season down the drain with the wrong focus. Read Charlotte may be interested in Randle - how about Randle for Kelly Oubre and M.Plumlee (both expiring deals)? We could waive Plumlee as we have 3 centers. Oubre is athletic, tries on defense and would prob bring ladies to the ultimateknicks.com
jskinny35 wrote:Bottom line we've seen 3 seasons of Randle (2 bad, 1 great) and have enough information to make a decision on Randle. Toppin may turn out to be very good or just a decent energy spark off the bench... we won't know until he plays more. He won't play more with Randle there so it seems like an easy decision to make. We're going to use the first half of the season to cater to Randle to try to pump up his trade value and if he does - then dump him at the deadline. If he doesn't - it's another season down the drain with the wrong focus. Read Charlotte may be interested in Randle - how about Randle for Kelly Oubre and M.Plumlee (both expiring deals)? We could waive Plumlee as we have 3 centers. Oubre is athletic, tries on defense and would prob bring ladies to the ultimateknicks.com
Yeah, I hear the ladies love the smell of sausage permeating throughout the day. We really need to get that AlBA tournament up and running 
I would wait until there is an actual situation before trading either. Obi is yet to prove he is a starting-quality player in this league, let alone the Knicks' future. Scoring 20 pts three games in a row while playing against other teams' reserves in meaningless end of season games proves nothing.
But if someone offers us a KD or a DMitch in exchange for either of them + first round pix, then hell yeah.
