Knicks · 2023 NBA Draft. The "Double Draft" (page 33)

Random thought but there’s been talk about the Pacers being interested in Toppin. They have 3 first round picks plus an early second that Houston owes them. I wonder if they would do one of their late firsts for Toppin. Toppin helps them at PF and the Knicks get an opportunity to draft a player they like in the Quickley/ Grimes range of the draft. Seems like Indiana wouldn’t want to use all of those picks and would want a ready rotation player to help take a step forward.

Knixkik wrote:Random thought but there’s been talk about the Pacers being interested in Toppin. They have 3 first round picks plus an early second that Houston owes them. I wonder if they would do one of their late firsts for Toppin. Toppin helps them at PF and the Knicks get an opportunity to draft a player they like in the Quickley/ Grimes range of the draft. Seems like Indiana wouldn’t want to use all of those picks and would want a ready rotation player to help take a step forward.

Get the F out of here. I can see trading them Obi but not for one late first rounder. I can see the Knicks swapping a future first rounder for one of their A3 first rounders because does Indiana want to bring in 4 or 5 rookies in one draft between there second and first rounders ? They might want to oubt on of their first rounders. If they trade for Obi it will cost them more then one first. Obi is valuable for this team and with the new CBA they have an extra season on his rookie deal or the chance to extend him at a economical deal

Alpha1971 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Random thought but there’s been talk about the Pacers being interested in Toppin. They have 3 first round picks plus an early second that Houston owes them. I wonder if they would do one of their late firsts for Toppin. Toppin helps them at PF and the Knicks get an opportunity to draft a player they like in the Quickley/ Grimes range of the draft. Seems like Indiana wouldn’t want to use all of those picks and would want a ready rotation player to help take a step forward.

Get the F out of here. I can see trading them Obi but not for one late first rounder. I can see the Knicks swapping a future first rounder for one of their A3 first rounders because does Indiana want to bring in 4 or 5 rookies in one draft between there second and first rounders ? They might want to punt on of their first rounders. If they trade for Obi it will cost them more then one first. Obi is valuable for this team and with the new CBA they have an extra season on his rookie deal or the chance to extend him at a economical deal. Knicks want to draft in 2023 we can add cash and future first for one or even rights to Rokas.

Alpha1971 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Random thought but there’s been talk about the Pacers being interested in Toppin. They have 3 first round picks plus an early second that Houston owes them. I wonder if they would do one of their late firsts for Toppin. Toppin helps them at PF and the Knicks get an opportunity to draft a player they like in the Quickley/ Grimes range of the draft. Seems like Indiana wouldn’t want to use all of those picks and would want a ready rotation player to help take a step forward.

Get the F out of here. I can see trading them Obi but not for one late first rounder. I can see the Knicks swapping a future first rounder for one of their A3 first rounders because does Indiana want to bring in 4 or 5 rookies in one draft between there second and first rounders ? They might want to oubt on of their first rounders. If they trade for Obi it will cost them more then one first. Obi is valuable for this team and with the new CBA they have an extra season on his rookie deal or the chance to extend him at a economical deal

You’re very much overrating Toppins value. He is not worth multiple firsts. One might even be a stretch at this point.

Knixkik wrote:Random thought but there’s been talk about the Pacers being interested in Toppin. They have 3 first round picks plus an early second that Houston owes them. I wonder if they would do one of their late firsts for Toppin. Toppin helps them at PF and the Knicks get an opportunity to draft a player they like in the Quickley/ Grimes range of the draft. Seems like Indiana wouldn’t want to use all of those picks and would want a ready rotation player to help take a step forward.

If Indiana gets pick #25 it's DEFINITELY on lol

Knixkik wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Random thought but there’s been talk about the Pacers being interested in Toppin. They have 3 first round picks plus an early second that Houston owes them. I wonder if they would do one of their late firsts for Toppin. Toppin helps them at PF and the Knicks get an opportunity to draft a player they like in the Quickley/ Grimes range of the draft. Seems like Indiana wouldn’t want to use all of those picks and would want a ready rotation player to help take a step forward.

Get the F out of here. I can see trading them Obi but not for one late first rounder. I can see the Knicks swapping a future first rounder for one of their A3 first rounders because does Indiana want to bring in 4 or 5 rookies in one draft between there second and first rounders ? They might want to oubt on of their first rounders. If they trade for Obi it will cost them more then one first. Obi is valuable for this team and with the new CBA they have an extra season on his rookie deal or the chance to extend him at a economical deal

You’re very much overrating Toppins value. He is not worth multiple firsts. One might even be a stretch at this point.

We can obtain a late first rounder without giving up Obi using a future protected pick. No need to trade Obi solely for a late first rounder. If we want to improve the bench we can use the non tax payer MLE or make a trade with or without Obi. Who will we draft better then Obi for the team ?

Alpha1971 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Random thought but there’s been talk about the Pacers being interested in Toppin. They have 3 first round picks plus an early second that Houston owes them. I wonder if they would do one of their late firsts for Toppin. Toppin helps them at PF and the Knicks get an opportunity to draft a player they like in the Quickley/ Grimes range of the draft. Seems like Indiana wouldn’t want to use all of those picks and would want a ready rotation player to help take a step forward.

Get the F out of here. I can see trading them Obi but not for one late first rounder. I can see the Knicks swapping a future first rounder for one of their A3 first rounders because does Indiana want to bring in 4 or 5 rookies in one draft between there second and first rounders ? They might want to oubt on of their first rounders. If they trade for Obi it will cost them more then one first. Obi is valuable for this team and with the new CBA they have an extra season on his rookie deal or the chance to extend him at a economical deal

You’re very much overrating Toppins value. He is not worth multiple firsts. One might even be a stretch at this point.

We can obtain a late first rounder without giving up Obi using a future protected pick. No need to trade Obi solely for a late first rounder. If we want to improve the bench we can use the non tax payer MLE or make a trade with or without Obi. Who will we draft better then Obi for the team ?

There’s plenty of ways to improve the team as you mentioned. It’s more about moving Toppin before they need to resign him and still get some value. A late first gets a reset on a rookie contract. Plus I think we can assume Toppin may want out for a better opportunity. We will likely hear about it this summer, unless he’s really just fine playing 12 mpg on the Knicks and staying home. If he’s happy like that then great, extend him for a deal that reflects that role. But I think it’s more likely he goes than stays, and I think getting a draft pick this year to restart the rookie contract clock is probably best case scenario in a trade. Knicks can draft a project player and replace Toppins minutes with the MLE or use someone like McBride for those minutes and play smaller off the bench. I personally think the Knicks would be better using Deuce in the rotation while using Barrett/ Hart in backup PF minutes.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Random thought but there’s been talk about the Pacers being interested in Toppin. They have 3 first round picks plus an early second that Houston owes them. I wonder if they would do one of their late firsts for Toppin. Toppin helps them at PF and the Knicks get an opportunity to draft a player they like in the Quickley/ Grimes range of the draft. Seems like Indiana wouldn’t want to use all of those picks and would want a ready rotation player to help take a step forward.

If Indiana gets pick #25 it's DEFINITELY on lol

Wouldn’t that be something lol.

Knixkik wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Random thought but there’s been talk about the Pacers being interested in Toppin. They have 3 first round picks plus an early second that Houston owes them. I wonder if they would do one of their late firsts for Toppin. Toppin helps them at PF and the Knicks get an opportunity to draft a player they like in the Quickley/ Grimes range of the draft. Seems like Indiana wouldn’t want to use all of those picks and would want a ready rotation player to help take a step forward.

Get the F out of here. I can see trading them Obi but not for one late first rounder. I can see the Knicks swapping a future first rounder for one of their A3 first rounders because does Indiana want to bring in 4 or 5 rookies in one draft between there second and first rounders ? They might want to oubt on of their first rounders. If they trade for Obi it will cost them more then one first. Obi is valuable for this team and with the new CBA they have an extra season on his rookie deal or the chance to extend him at a economical deal

You’re very much overrating Toppins value. He is not worth multiple firsts. One might even be a stretch at this point.

Yeah, if a lottery protected first gets you Josh Hart, then I'd say you'd be lucky to get first rounder back for Obi. I'd say the team is better keeping him for depth at this point.

Knixkik wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Random thought but there’s been talk about the Pacers being interested in Toppin. They have 3 first round picks plus an early second that Houston owes them. I wonder if they would do one of their late firsts for Toppin. Toppin helps them at PF and the Knicks get an opportunity to draft a player they like in the Quickley/ Grimes range of the draft. Seems like Indiana wouldn’t want to use all of those picks and would want a ready rotation player to help take a step forward.

Get the F out of here. I can see trading them Obi but not for one late first rounder. I can see the Knicks swapping a future first rounder for one of their A3 first rounders because does Indiana want to bring in 4 or 5 rookies in one draft between there second and first rounders ? They might want to oubt on of their first rounders. If they trade for Obi it will cost them more then one first. Obi is valuable for this team and with the new CBA they have an extra season on his rookie deal or the chance to extend him at a economical deal

You’re very much overrating Toppins value. He is not worth multiple firsts. One might even be a stretch at this point.

We can obtain a late first rounder without giving up Obi using a future protected pick. No need to trade Obi solely for a late first rounder. If we want to improve the bench we can use the non tax payer MLE or make a trade with or without Obi. Who will we draft better then Obi for the team ?

There’s plenty of ways to improve the team as you mentioned. It’s more about moving Toppin before they need to resign him and still get some value. A late first gets a reset on a rookie contract. Plus I think we can assume Toppin may want out for a better opportunity. We will likely hear about it this summer, unless he’s really just fine playing 12 mpg on the Knicks and staying home. If he’s happy like that then great, extend him for a deal that reflects that role. But I think it’s more likely he goes than stays, and I think getting a draft pick this year to restart the rookie contract clock is probably best case scenario in a trade. Knicks can draft a project player and replace Toppins minutes with the MLE or use someone like McBride for those minutes and play smaller off the bench. I personally think the Knicks would be better using Deuce in the rotation while using Barrett/ Hart in backup PF minutes.

Ok I agree with that

If the Dallas pick conveys to Knicks, I’d hope thy could do everything to get this guy

martin wrote:If the Dallas pick conveys to Knicks, I’d hope thy could do everything to get this guy

I’m buying his scoring upside but yeah his playmaking is going to need to really improve lol he dosent pass at all it seems

BigDaddyG wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Random thought but there’s been talk about the Pacers being interested in Toppin. They have 3 first round picks plus an early second that Houston owes them. I wonder if they would do one of their late firsts for Toppin. Toppin helps them at PF and the Knicks get an opportunity to draft a player they like in the Quickley/ Grimes range of the draft. Seems like Indiana wouldn’t want to use all of those picks and would want a ready rotation player to help take a step forward.

Get the F out of here. I can see trading them Obi but not for one late first rounder. I can see the Knicks swapping a future first rounder for one of their A3 first rounders because does Indiana want to bring in 4 or 5 rookies in one draft between there second and first rounders ? They might want to oubt on of their first rounders. If they trade for Obi it will cost them more then one first. Obi is valuable for this team and with the new CBA they have an extra season on his rookie deal or the chance to extend him at a economical deal

You’re very much overrating Toppins value. He is not worth multiple firsts. One might even be a stretch at this point.

Yeah, if a lottery protected first gets you Josh Hart, then I'd say you'd be lucky to get first rounder back for Obi. I'd say the team is better keeping him for depth at this point.

Sorry, I don't buy your logic. Just because you did well in one trade doesn't mean you turn around and give it away in the next trade. You should use that info not to make the same mistake Portland just made. No way I trade Obi for just a "late" first rounder. Nevermind that the Knicks have been converting on those recently, that's an aberration. Most picks after 20 are not worth the roster spot they take up. Would I trade him? Sure, but he has more value than a gamble in the end of the first round. I would *maybe* trade him for a pick in the first half of the draft, but I'd prefer another young player that has shown he can play in the big league (even if not fully developed) if he is a better fit.
Frankly, if Obi wants to stay, I'd just keep him. He's a great insurance policy at PF.

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Random thought but there’s been talk about the Pacers being interested in Toppin. They have 3 first round picks plus an early second that Houston owes them. I wonder if they would do one of their late firsts for Toppin. Toppin helps them at PF and the Knicks get an opportunity to draft a player they like in the Quickley/ Grimes range of the draft. Seems like Indiana wouldn’t want to use all of those picks and would want a ready rotation player to help take a step forward.

Get the F out of here. I can see trading them Obi but not for one late first rounder. I can see the Knicks swapping a future first rounder for one of their A3 first rounders because does Indiana want to bring in 4 or 5 rookies in one draft between there second and first rounders ? They might want to oubt on of their first rounders. If they trade for Obi it will cost them more then one first. Obi is valuable for this team and with the new CBA they have an extra season on his rookie deal or the chance to extend him at a economical deal

You’re very much overrating Toppins value. He is not worth multiple firsts. One might even be a stretch at this point.

Yeah, if a lottery protected first gets you Josh Hart, then I'd say you'd be lucky to get first rounder back for Obi. I'd say the team is better keeping him for depth at this point.

Sorry, I don't buy your logic. Just because you did well in one trade doesn't mean you turn around and give it away in the next trade. You should use that info not to make the same mistake Portland just made. No way I trade Obi for just a "late" first rounder. Nevermind that the Knicks have been converting on those recently, that's an aberration. Most picks after 20 are not worth the roster spot they take up. Would I trade him? Sure, but he has more value than a gamble in the end of the first round. I would *maybe* trade him for a pick in the first half of the draft, but I'd prefer another young player that has shown he can play in the big league (even if not fully developed) if he is a better fit.
Frankly, if Obi wants to stay, I'd just keep him. He's a great insurance policy at PF.

Yeah, that's why I said the team is better off keeping Obi for depth for time being. His value on the trade market isn't close to his value to the team. The problem with that is if the team decides to extend through UFA. Do you risk a team overpaying on an offer sheet and have Obi leave for nothing? Obi probably leaves if the salary is the same but he gets a bigger role. If a team offers more money and a bigger role? Obi gone. Also, I don't think Portland made a mistake. I think the Hart trade worker for both teams. A pick outside the lottery seemed like the going rate this season for a player of Hart's caliber.

TPercy wrote:

martin wrote:If the Dallas pick conveys to Knicks, I’d hope thy could do everything to get this guy

I’m buying his scoring upside but yeah his playmaking is going to need to really improve lol he dosent pass at all it seems

He'll fit right in in the RJ role

Too soon?

martin wrote:

TPercy wrote:

martin wrote:If the Dallas pick conveys to Knicks, I’d hope thy could do everything to get this guy

I’m buying his scoring upside but yeah his playmaking is going to need to really improve lol he dosent pass at all it seems

He'll fit right in in the RJ role

Too soon?

Yeah, we'll swap one erratic 3 point shooter for another. I'd say good Cam's chances of being on the opening night roster are slightly better than mine tho

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

TPercy wrote:

martin wrote:If the Dallas pick conveys to Knicks, I’d hope thy could do everything to get this guy

I’m buying his scoring upside but yeah his playmaking is going to need to really improve lol he dosent pass at all it seems

He'll fit right in in the RJ role

Too soon?

Yeah, we'll swap one erratic 3 point shooter for another. I'd say good Cam's chances of being on the opening night roster are slightly better than mine tho

Kidding aside, if I'm the Knicks FO and they do have pick in the 11-14 range, I'd do a lot to move up to draft this kid. IMO he is a bigger, more skill version of Josh Hart who has a much higher ceiling.

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

TPercy wrote:

martin wrote:If the Dallas pick conveys to Knicks, I’d hope thy could do everything to get this guy

I’m buying his scoring upside but yeah his playmaking is going to need to really improve lol he dosent pass at all it seems

He'll fit right in in the RJ role

Too soon?

Yeah, we'll swap one erratic 3 point shooter for another. I'd say good Cam's chances of being on the opening night roster are slightly better than mine tho

Kidding aside, if I'm the Knicks FO and they do have pick in the 11-14 range, I'd do a lot to move up to draft this kid. IMO he is a bigger, more skill version of Josh Hart who has a much higher ceiling.

I don't see Josh Hart. Cam is definitely more offensive minded and the playmaking isn't there. Defense also needs to pick up. Right now, I see a more athletic Tobias Harris. Still a good player if his ceiling pans out.

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

TPercy wrote:

martin wrote:If the Dallas pick conveys to Knicks, I’d hope thy could do everything to get this guy

I’m buying his scoring upside but yeah his playmaking is going to need to really improve lol he dosent pass at all it seems

He'll fit right in in the RJ role

Too soon?

Yeah, we'll swap one erratic 3 point shooter for another. I'd say good Cam's chances of being on the opening night roster are slightly better than mine tho

Kidding aside, if I'm the Knicks FO and they do have pick in the 11-14 range, I'd do a lot to move up to draft this kid. IMO he is a bigger, more skill version of Josh Hart who has a much higher ceiling.

I don’t want to jump back in too deep until Dallas gets the 11th pick, but other than Cam, I think both Cason Wallace and Taylor Hendricks really fit what the Knicks typically go for.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

TPercy wrote:

martin wrote:If the Dallas pick conveys to Knicks, I’d hope thy could do everything to get this guy

I’m buying his scoring upside but yeah his playmaking is going to need to really improve lol he dosent pass at all it seems

He'll fit right in in the RJ role

Too soon?

Yeah, we'll swap one erratic 3 point shooter for another. I'd say good Cam's chances of being on the opening night roster are slightly better than mine tho

Kidding aside, if I'm the Knicks FO and they do have pick in the 11-14 range, I'd do a lot to move up to draft this kid. IMO he is a bigger, more skill version of Josh Hart who has a much higher ceiling.

I don’t want to jump back in too deep until Dallas gets the 11th pick, but other than Cam, I think both Cason Wallace and Taylor Hendricks really fit what the Knicks typically go for.

Yup

IQ 2.0