BigDaddyG wrote:BRIGGS wrote:gradyandrew wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:My issue with a trade for Mitchell is the perceived value of draft picks. If I am adding Mitchell as my 3rd superstar, yeah, you get 3 or 4 unprotected picks. But I don’t think Mitchell puts us over the top to take use out of middling lottery/play in. Don’t mistake me - I would collect him in a heartbeat at a reasonable price and would shift my entire franchise outlook to build around him. Something I wish occurred prior to signing Brunson (only because I think Mitchell did better at PG last year - he has great positional length at PG).
It’s just that Miami giving up 3 1sts vs Knicks giving up 3 1sts is a huge difference in my opinion. I’d give draft position average at 15 (plus or minus 7) for a Knicks pick and 25 (plus or minus 4) for a Miami pick. I made those numbers up, but it’s what I think. I’m not on board with 3 Knick picks and 2 more other picks and Toppin and and and. Nope. It’s too much.
Rose, Fournier and IQ to Utah with 4 picks 2023 Knicks (Top 10 protected), 2023 Dallas (Top 10 Protected) 2025 Bucks (Top 3 protected), 2027 Knicks (Top 3 protected). Doubt anyone else is near this haul.
That leaves us with no cap space for a while and:
Brunson/McBride
Mitchell/Grimes
Barrett/Reddish
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Hart/Sims
It’s not perfect but it’s pretty good.
I just don’t understand a ton more of players and picks going. Doesn’t make sense to me.
This goes with the "huge" package the Jazz from Minnesota. With Edwards, KAT, Russell already there- how good will those picks be? Minny even kept their best young defender to further downgrade those picks. I'd be surprised if any of them convert as lottery picks, especially considering how much worse the West has become relative to the East. Let's be real about the Knicks future pick value being high because it's the Knicks.
Tim Duncan and the Spurs don’t agree.
If knicks go all in it Should be for Durant. Durant is a true tier 1 player and we have the picks and players. Mitchell is just a very good player. If not. I’d rather keep what we have. Be patient
Knicks and Dolan have been proven to be suckers for almost 25 years running
I'm starting to agree with you on this. I was excited about the news at first. But the more I think on it, the more I'm left wondering how much a Brunson/Mitchell backcourt would make sense. I'm not even as down on Mitchell's defense as others on this board. A 6'1" backcourt just seems to be limited in a number of ways. I appreciate the FO going all in on a star, but the fit just seems awkward. The other teams in the East are going jumbo at all the perimeter positions. I have visions of Lonzo Ball and Lavine going for career highs at MSG night after night if this backcourt materializes. We need to get more wings like Grimes or Cam, not go back to a throwback here of Isaiah and Dumars.
If you replace Durant with “SF” I am in agreement. My issue with Durant is that he doesn’t want to lead a team, he wants a ring. I don’t think adding Durant makes us a contender by itself. I think Mitchell is a top 15 or 20 player and is a building block that we can really build. I don’t think Mitchell by himself makes us a contender, but at 25, we have time to build. So, we can be patient and keep building. I’m more about Mitchell than Durant (but if Durant turned around and asked to be in NY id probably flip flop pretty quick.
Rookie wrote:I wish Ainge and the Jazz good luck in the play in tournament. I’m sure we offered a square deal, but Ainge is trying to get us to bid against ourselves. Ainge overplayed his hand here. Oh well I like our squad going into the season.
I'm feeling the same way, just roll with our youth a little longer and see how they play. When we traded for Melo we lost all our youth, have we not learned anything?
F*ck Durant. He was a b!tch in okc and a diva since. He had his chance to be a Knick and not only turned it down but was a dick doing so. Let him suck roses balls. Major diva
I have big questions about the fit. But fewer questions about whether Rose, Aller, Bryant and Thibs have thought this through. They’ll be disciplined
I don’t have a problem with 4 NYK picks and 4 of the late firsts they acquired plus reddish, Fournier. I would even include Quick if you have too. Name the next player that becomes available of this caliber that wants to be here.
Seems like a lot but is it?
Simms is going to be solid, Grimes looks like a fringe starter, McBride can get in someone’s ass for 15 minutes a night, Isiah has great potential and if you hang onto Obi you bench is set
We would have the best young team in the NBA outside of maybe Memphis?
Brunson (25)
Mitchell (25)
Barrett (22)
Randle (27)
Robinson (25)
McBridge (21)
Toppin (24)
Simms (23)
Grimes (22)
Isiah (24)
I don’t think we need the picks. If the young guys continue to get better we are set for the long term.
MS wrote:I don’t have a problem with 4 NYK picks and 4 of the late firsts they acquired plus reddish, Fournier. I would even include Quick if you have too. Name the next player that becomes available of this caliber that wants to be here.Seems like a lot but is it?
Simms is going to be solid, Grimes looks like a fringe starter, McBride can get in someone’s ass for 15 minutes a night, Isiah has great potential and if you hang onto Obi you bench is set
We would have the best young team in the NBA outside of maybe Memphis?
Brunson (25)
Mitchell (25)
Barrett (22)
Randle (27)
Robinson (25)
McBridge (21)
Toppin (24)
Simms (23)
Grimes (22)
Isiah (24)
I don’t think we need the picks. If the young guys continue to get better we are set for the long term.
I agree. With how good we have been with development I am good with parting with a lot of picks if we keep our young core. No chance would I agree to giving away a ton of picks and our young core. Mitchell is good but not good enough to carry a hollow team anywhere.
Anyone else think Derrick Rose is primed for a big year? He and Jalen go way, way back. With Burks gone, Fournier steps in that role perfectly. The only guys I see as replaceable are Reddish and Obi, even then I'm banking on Randle not getting injured. I keep going back to Rick Brunson saying "everyone wants what Luka has." After making the moves for Brunson and him not even listening to other offers, does it make sense to put him behind D Mitchell on the shot chart? I think if Ainge wanted this to get done it would have been before the Knicks sent out Burks and Noel. I don't see it happening now.
BigDaddyG wrote:
The fact that the deal was close before we walked away scares me. how in the world would that be close to being done. That deal is horrible.
blkexec wrote:Clean wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:
The fact that the deal was close before we walked away scares me. how in the world would that be close to being done. That deal is horrible.
sources familiar with the dynamic said the Knicks and Jazz were not close to making a deal. The Athletic reported on Tuesday night that the Knicks and Jazz had been in touch on a deal within the previous 24 hours and said Grimes is believed to be of interest to the Jazz. Teams in touch with the Jazz earlier in the week came away with the impression that Utah prioritized acquiring draft capital in any deal for Mitchell, as SNY reported on Tuesday. 1 hour ago – via SportsNet New York
Yeah. The math doesn’t even work on that deal. Not close.
EwingsGlass wrote:blkexec wrote:Clean wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:
The fact that the deal was close before we walked away scares me. how in the world would that be close to being done. That deal is horrible.
sources familiar with the dynamic said the Knicks and Jazz were not close to making a deal. The Athletic reported on Tuesday night that the Knicks and Jazz had been in touch on a deal within the previous 24 hours and said Grimes is believed to be of interest to the Jazz. Teams in touch with the Jazz earlier in the week came away with the impression that Utah prioritized acquiring draft capital in any deal for Mitchell, as SNY reported on Tuesday. 1 hour ago – via SportsNet New York
Yeah. The math doesn’t even work on that deal. Not close.
The first is a Jazz beat reporter and is reported to have solid sources within the Jazz organization. Ainge trying to put pressure on the Knicks. Shams has sources in the Knicks organization and Leon is telling 'No, we're weeks, maybe months away."
Ainge wants this done quick, but Leon knows he has some leverage.
The most common formula for winning is the big 3 (or even 2) approach. The less likely path is the depth route (Billups’s 2004 Pistons).
I like our off-season moves and think we can be a lot better without Mitchell. Getting him for effectively a bunch of bench players would he quite shocking.
It’s kind of funny that we’re treating Obi, Grimes, and Quickley like they’re all stars, let alone even starters!
But consider this:
We have a historically poor track record of making picks and developing talent, though we seem to be shifting that expectation.
But we do seem to have a talent in trading down and opportunistically picking up assets. I’m okay giving away picks in a trade. Honestly I think Ainge would get better value out of theme than our team.
Danny Ainge acting to stupid right know and lost his damn mind with that dumb offer we are not wolves. On off topic note the wolves screwed it up for everybody in the nba with there dumb trade for gobert with that over paid. Now with trades like if you want to get sixth man like terrance ross or eric gordon it will probably be 2 first picks that's how bad the wolves screwed up.
Finally someone I know I can trust.
As usual .. using the Knicks, or Boston, or Lakers to hype up all the small market teams to pay big market team prices for a trade, or a FA, or staff.
The firing of a decade winning head coach Snyder .. trading the NBA top defensive center Gobert to the above .500 season Timberwolves (KAT & Gobert), and the return was draft pick & players to Utah Jazz ..
What team does Donovan Mitchell want to go to? Other than the Knicks ???
I'm more interested in signing the Utah Jazz ex-head-coach Snyder.
Brunson & Mitchell would make a nice backcourt pair, having Rose & Quickley as their backup throughout a 82 game season.
Being that I believe Fournier & Cam should have never been giving a Knicks uniform, those two players contract should automatically be attached to the many future first round picks the Knicks have to trade.
Maybe, not Cam during his final contract season. Keeping Knox final season contract last season would've worked well for the Knicks in the offseason having cap space plus an extra first round pick.
Clean wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:
The fact that the deal was close before we walked away scares me. how in the world would that be close to being done. That deal is horrible.
Take a couple of picks off the table, and I actually like that deal. It would take us at least 6 strikes in the draft to land a player comparable to Donovan Mitchell anyway. Would have sucked to lose Quick, but objectively, having Mitchell and Brunson would have left no spot for him. Finding whatever Obi, Grimes and McBride bring to the table would not have been difficult.
And a lineup of Brunson-Mitchell-RJ-Randle would have been virtually impossible to stop on offense, while MitchRob anchored us defensively. And then you still got dangerous scorers like EF and Rose coming off the bench.
I do not know how reliable that source is, but IMO the Knicks should have remained engaged.
Clean wrote:
Finally someone I know I can trust.
And this deal the Knicks should have done in a heartbeat. Three first round picks is a very good price for a bona fide NBA superstar. MitchRob is great, but his contributions can be replaced, lots of people, including on this board, were ready to see him go for nothing rather than overpaying on his next contract.
ESOMKnicks wrote:Clean wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:
The fact that the deal was close before we walked away scares me. how in the world would that be close to being done. That deal is horrible.
Take a couple of picks off the table, and I actually like that deal. It would take us at least 6 strikes in the draft to land a player comparable to Donovan Mitchell anyway. Would have sucked to lose Quick, but objectively, having Mitchell and Brunson would have left no spot for him. Finding whatever Obi, Grimes and McBride bring to the table would not have been difficult.
And a lineup of Brunson-Mitchell-RJ-Randle would have been virtually impossible to stop on offense, while MitchRob anchored us defensively. And then you still got dangerous scorers like EF and Rose coming off the bench.
I do not know how reliable that source is, but IMO the Knicks should have remained engaged.
I assume Fournier would need to be the main contract going out for any of these deals to work. Rose is possible if it’s both Toppin and Reddish going out too, but you need that larger contract included. I honestly don’t mind the 6 picks if we can salvage some young guys. I’m hoping the players going would be either Rose, Toppin, and Reddish, or Fournier, Toppin, and Grimes or McBride at worse.
I also wonder how Jazz fans feel about all these package ideas being thrown around. Probably furious how cheaply we all hope to get their best player.
It is like asking Knicks fans how we would feel about trading RJ for 6 picks plus Nickeil Alexander Walker, Danuel House and Juancho Hernangomez.
