martin wrote:One man's thought process, Thread
My username is ToddTT, and I endorse this message.
As long the FO chooses between a good deal for Mitchell, and no deal at all, its a win-win. I'm leaning toward no deal, and seeing if Grimes can be a starting 2 in a season or two. Q's defense could make a big difference in a deep playoff run. Disagree that he's ready to step in right now. Can still get important minutes off the bench, while he learns.
A good/fair deal IMO will only make us part with one of the better yoots. And not more than 5 1st rd picks, and some pick swaps. Nevermind what Gobert got.
martin wrote:One man's thought process, Thread
Yea, I follow this guy and like some of his opinions. I also like that he says it and does not worry about peoples feelings. I see all his points and mostly agree. The only trade for Mitchell I would do is one for picks and none of the main young players. My reasoning is that I believe the young will grow into the quality role players we would need. Actually the last season it was them holding our team up from completely bottoming out. Every game it seemed like the starters would be down by at least 10 for the bench to bring us back into it. Can you imagine the record jump if the starters could actually win their matchup every now and then?
If we trade both picks and young players we will be thinned out with no way to build our roster. No pick, no cap space and no bench. We would be like the Lakers taking on old past their prime players on one year deals. The problem would be we would have Brunson and Mitchell instead of Lebron and AD. So no chance at a title. If after a Mitchel trade our bench includes Grimes, Quick and Obi I would be willing to role with that team. Mitchell and Brunson alone would drastically improve our Starters. The lone problem being Randle and how he fits. That is a topic for another day. One good thing about Randle is he is a hard worker. Hopefully he is working on his shot and not being ball dominant.
Embarrassing stuff, some of these bball writers are an absolute disgrace, what did Ainge do to inspire such servitude?!
smackeddog wrote:Embarrassing stuff, some of these bball writers are an absolute disgrace, what did Ainge do to inspire such servitude?!
Yeah, as much as this board craps on Fournier, his deal is still much better than Robinson's. Fournier has a team option next season and would be easier to flip if desired. Also a better player, though that would be detrimental to a tank. Herro is off the table because of his upcoming extension.. Even if the Heat managed to flip Herro for picks (which would be protected) the Knicks could still trump that deal. This is Danny using his influence to try and pressure the Knicks. But the leverage isn't there. The teams who could legitimately offer a better deal aren't interested.
A fun outcome would be Ainge not being able to make any trade and Mitchell plays well enough to win them 30+ games and cost him a high lottery pick. In fact, watch Ainge start getting desperate to move Mitchell out if that starts to happen.
nycdan wrote:A fun outcome would be Ainge not being able to make any trade and Mitchell plays well enough to win them 30+ games and cost him a high lottery pick. In fact, watch Ainge start getting desperate to move Mitchell out if that starts to happen.
I was thinking the same thing, Mitchell is a nice guy and wont dirty his image with the Jazz. This trade drama is so exhausting iv lost interest, would rather keep the young line up and see how it does with Jalen. Anyway, what if Mitchell makes a bold statement like he vows to carry what ever team he is in straight to the playoffs. His image still intact but i think Danny A's leverage can take a hit.
Help the knicks out, Mitchell. This is taking way too long to happen.
The real question is .. why are Ainge turning a 5 year 50 win season Jazz team into a 25 to 30 win season team ???
I believe Brunson will have a hard time his first season as a Knicks trying to keep the ball out of Randles hands.
I too, don't believe D.Mitchell and Randle will fit well in a lineup.
Every time Randle grab a defensive rebound he dribble (walk) the ball down court. Why?
Randle's passing skills the past 3 seasons lead to 4 to 6 turnovers.
Plus, Brunson & D.Mitchell will never be able to push the ball when Randle rebounds.
nycdan wrote:A fun outcome would be Ainge not being able to make any trade and Mitchell plays well enough to win them 30+ games and cost him a high lottery pick. In fact, watch Ainge start getting desperate to move Mitchell out if that starts to happen.
I don't know about 50 win season but I believe Utah is still good enough to make the western playoffs as currently constructed
Rookie,
DM father works for the Mets. And as said he is playing and having fun with is friends. They play MLB.
Dude is a met fan. its all good.
Kemet, Really? You don’t know why he walks the ball down the court? He knows the elections are fixed and he protesting. That, and no man ever set foot on the moon. Democrats each young children and you worried about Randle slowing down GDP growth and causing a recession?
Kemet wrote:The real question is .. why are Ainge turning a 5 year 50 win season Jazz team into a 25 to 30 win season team ??? I believe Brunson will have a hard time his first season as a Knicks trying to keep the ball out of Randles hands.
I too, don't believe D.Mitchell and Randle will fit well in a lineup.
Every time Randle grab a defensive rebound he dribble (walk) the ball down court. Why?
Randle's passing skills the past 3 seasons lead to 4 to 6 turnovers.
Plus, Brunson & D.Mitchell will never be able to push the ball when Randle rebounds.
Brunson and Randle can probably coexist. No way D-Mitch, Brunson and Randle all 3 can coexist. Too many primary ball handlers on the court together
I hope enjoys getting fleeced at the deadline next February
Kemet wrote:
The real question is .. why are Ainge turning a 5 year 50 win season Jazz team into a 25 to 30 win season team ??? I believe Brunson will have a hard time his first season as a Knicks trying to keep the ball out of Randles hands.
I too, don't believe D.Mitchell and Randle will fit well in a lineup.
Every time Randle grab a defensive rebound he dribble (walk) the ball down court. Why?
Randle's passing skills the past 3 seasons lead to 4 to 6 turnovers.
Plus, Brunson & D.Mitchell will never be able to push the ball when Randle rebounds.
Two things. First, there's a new ownership group that wants to put it's own mark on the franchise. Second, Ainge laid out in his press conference after the trade where he said in the middle isn't where you want to be. Part of that goes with the top ten protections on Jazz picks in 2024,2025,2026- Jazz lose them if their not top ten. For that to make sense, Jazz would need to be a second round or Conference Finals team. There's enough of a track record that the Jazz didn't look like they would be getting any better than a first round/ border 2nd team.
In terms of trade value, the Knicks history of just bombing for discernible reason should increase the value of their picks. Karma wise we all feel the certitude that whatever picks the Knicks give up, the player will be all NBA at some point (Aldridge, Noah, Hayward, Murray).
I took not offense to what Mannix said explaining what his position is. Utah has no other pro team and a solid fan base. They also understand the team went as far as it could go without leveraging up. That comes with consequences if you can’t get it done. Big ones.
As for Knick Karma, or anything in the past thats stuff of superstition and cop outs. I said this years ago:”change the decision making process and you change the outcome. If you want to increase “luck” you have to increase opportunity”. Nothing special there, just logical basic stuff. Granted, Post Isiah/Grunwald we did change but did not execute. As often noted, PHil only had 2 of four of our picks. KP and Frank. He was hired and fired. Mills was not here long enough to effect change and if he wanted to leverage it up then he was fired for it. Leon walked in redid the organization both FO and coaches. WE develope now for on court and as trade fodder. This is a very different take.
Randle under Fiz was not so great, but neither was fiz. Under Thibs he was all NBA. Last year was phuched up. Randle was very uneven as was the whole team. Leon and CO was genius year one but hardly year two. Obviously Kemba was a placeholder for Brunson that did not work. We installed Burks then panic and do something stupid. That is a new twist. Patience!! Grow IQ, and we let RJ have run of the house and he excelled.
Philc1 wrote:Kemet wrote:The real question is .. why are Ainge turning a 5 year 50 win season Jazz team into a 25 to 30 win season team ??? I believe Brunson will have a hard time his first season as a Knicks trying to keep the ball out of Randles hands.
I too, don't believe D.Mitchell and Randle will fit well in a lineup.
Every time Randle grab a defensive rebound he dribble (walk) the ball down court. Why?
Randle's passing skills the past 3 seasons lead to 4 to 6 turnovers.
Plus, Brunson & D.Mitchell will never be able to push the ball when Randle rebounds.
Brunson and Randle can probably coexist. No way D-Mitch, Brunson and Randle all 3 can coexist. Too many primary ball handlers on the court together
I hope enjoys getting fleeced at the deadline next February
I think this is a false narrative that somehow Mitchell, Brunson and Randle can't thrive together. I am confident in Thibs ability to coach. I would agree that Randle's mindset last season was bad, and if that continues, he will need to be traded. I think Brunson worked wonderfully off the ball with Luka, Mitchell is dynamic enough to find space off cuts and picks. And Randle, yes, is more of a round hole in a square one! But, he is a big beefy dude that can bully the way to the basket, and that is something teams need in the play offs.
I would personally be stoked to see the three of them, with RJ - who you leave out as needing the ball in his hands- with Robinson.
The narrative of Randle as a turn over machine, plodding up court with the ball, and forever salty discounts what he brings. Untl we get past last season we can’t see any changes. Thibs first year with randle was magic. We don’t need that again.
Thibs flat out said he needs to coach randle better. In other words I took it as “put him in a position to succeed”. WE’ll see.
I see risks on both sides of doing a big trade for DM. I get why Utah wants to do it and this is our time to spend on a luxury item like DM. There are reverberations to such trades. Such as are we to pay RJ or do we test his value and trade him for picks in return?
The current mania in the NBA is to trade picks. One can say hold on or keep turning over the value until Milwaukee needs to move Giannis and do a teardown in a year or so?
There are 100 thoughts/combos of scenarios to consider besides DM. What is the right thing to do or what will Dolan instruct his president to persue?
Right or wrong, Dolan can tell Leon what to do and its his team.
Randle had games where he was dishing out double-digit assists. Doubled his assist total with 5 extra minutes pgm from the previous season. One big reason for the improvement. Was instead of Randle grabbing a rebound, and trying to do a one on five fastbreak, and turning the ball over. He would grab a rebound, and set up his teammates.
If Randle has the rebound, and wants to lead the break. Kick it out for a 3, dish it to Brunson/RJ for the finish. Im all for it. Cant really play uptempo, if you always have to let the PG touch the ball first.
Not to say I want Randle running the point, but I also want him to have the green light to lead the break from time to time. Randle has shown he can do it well, when he isnt walking the ball upcourt. Like he did for most of last season.
GustavBahler wrote:Randle had games where he was dishing out double-digit assists. Doubled his assist total with 5 extra minutes pgm from the previous season. One big reason for the improvement. Was instead of Randle grabbing a rebound, and trying to do a one on five fastbreak, and turning the ball over. He would grab a rebound, and set up his teammates.If Randle has the rebound, and wants to lead the break. Kick it out for a 3, dish it to Brunson/RJ for the finish. Im all for it. Cant really play uptempo, if you always have to let the PG touch the ball first.
Not to say I want Randle running the point, but I also want him to have the green light to lead the break from time to time. Randle has shown he can do it well, when he isnt walking the ball upcourt. Like he did for most of last season.
Wait, what? Randle leading a fast break is something that never happened. We are one of the slowest teams in the league with Randle and Robinson. He walks the ball up. I have rarely ever seen Randle run or play with pace.
GustavBahler wrote:Randle had games where he was dishing out double-digit assists. Doubled his assist total with 5 extra minutes pgm from the previous season. One big reason for the improvement. Was instead of Randle grabbing a rebound, and trying to do a one on five fastbreak, and turning the ball over. He would grab a rebound, and set up his teammates.If Randle has the rebound, and wants to lead the break. Kick it out for a 3, dish it to Brunson/RJ for the finish. Im all for it. Cant really play uptempo, if you always have to let the PG touch the ball first.
Not to say I want Randle running the point, but I also want him to have the green light to lead the break from time to time. Randle has shown he can do it well, when he isnt walking the ball upcourt. Like he did for most of last season.
I didn't look at those game stats specifically yet, but can I hypothesize that those games were the ones where Fournier had a good game from 3. My biased memory recalls Randle dribbling in the high post and when the double from Fournier's man comes from Fournier (standing 6-8 feet away for some reason and not moving), Randle does a behind the back bounce-pass to Fournier who either shoots the ball or passes it back to Randle to start his dribble dribble fadeaway process again. In short, how many of those games came from Randle giving up on his 18ft fadeaway jumpshot? I didn't see a ton of well made passes, I saw a lot of dump-offs when Randle found a shot he didn't like.
nycdan wrote:A fun outcome would be Ainge not being able to make any trade and Mitchell plays well enough to win them 30+ games and cost him a high lottery pick. In fact, watch Ainge start getting desperate to move Mitchell out if that starts to happen.
I'm actually hoping he becomes a malcontent and hurts his open market value. I don't know why anyone deals with Ainge, he should be out of the league the way he operates. If he calls, a team should just hang up, no one should transact with him.
Im speaking of Randle's game from 2 seasons ago. He was more than just "dumping of the ball". He was definitely playing at a faster pace. Leading the break.
GustavBahler wrote:Im speaking of Randle's game from 2 seasons ago. He was more than just "dumping of the ball". He was definitely playing at a faster pace. Leading the break.
Ah, multiverse Randle. We really need contract year Randle back. This team with the all star version is in the playoffs. If Diva Randle shows up this year he’s got to go
