Knicks · Brunson is a star player (page 3)

SupremeCommander wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:History has shown that you dont need a star PG to win a chip' . Brunson is better than some past starting championship PGs. Brunson might develop into a star PG, but right now he gives us a level of competency and consistency we havent seen in a long time. Gives the Knicks the ability to move to the next level.

Steve nash was mvp twice. While he isnt going to have 10-12 assists---and what will differentiate him from lowry etc.. is Brunson is an efficient player. Lets let in play out.

so Brunson is now Steve Nash? or Magic Johnson? or Stephen Curry? or a pre-injury Derrick Rose? or Oscar Robertson? or Bob Cousy? or even pre-Westbrick Russell Westbrook?

those are the dudes that won MVP in this league that were points. To be clear, that's seven names in league history. You think that Brunson deserves to be on that list after a good walk year and a great playoffs? What did you think of the Jerome James signing?

The Jerome James comedy stop was one of the few highlights in a dismal season. Big Snack was a HOFer if the Hall of Fame ever had a bloopers wing.

Ira wrote:I don't think of Brunson as a star, but he turns what was a weak position for us into a strength which makes the team much better.

We don’t need him to be a star. We just need him to be good. If he’s simply a good player he’s a massive upgrade over the trash we have dealt with at pg over the years like Elf

SupremeCommander wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:History has shown that you dont need a star PG to win a chip' . Brunson is better than some past starting championship PGs. Brunson might develop into a star PG, but right now he gives us a level of competency and consistency we havent seen in a long time. Gives the Knicks the ability to move to the next level.

Steve nash was mvp twice. While he isnt going to have 10-12 assists---and what will differentiate him from lowry etc.. is Brunson is an efficient player. Lets let in play out.

so Brunson is now Steve Nash? or Magic Johnson? or Stephen Curry? or a pre-injury Derrick Rose? or Oscar Robertson? or Bob Cousy? or even pre-Westbrick Russell Westbrook?

those are the dudes that won MVP in this league that were points. To be clear, that's seven names in league history. You think that Brunson deserves to be on that list after a good walk year and a great playoffs? What did you think of the Jerome James signing?

You’re comparing Brunson to a fat center Isiah stupidly signed because he had 2 good playoff games?

SupremeCommander wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:History has shown that you dont need a star PG to win a chip' . Brunson is better than some past starting championship PGs. Brunson might develop into a star PG, but right now he gives us a level of competency and consistency we havent seen in a long time. Gives the Knicks the ability to move to the next level.

Steve nash was mvp twice. While he isnt going to have 10-12 assists---and what will differentiate him from lowry etc.. is Brunson is an efficient player. Lets let in play out.

so Brunson is now Steve Nash? or Magic Johnson? or Stephen Curry? or a pre-injury Derrick Rose? or Oscar Robertson? or Bob Cousy? or even pre-Westbrick Russell Westbrook?

those are the dudes that won MVP in this league that were points. To be clear, that's seven names in league history. You think that Brunson deserves to be on that list after a good walk year and a great playoffs? What did you think of the Jerome James signing?

IMHO Brunson will have a Nash-lite impact when he gets the right people around him. Nash had MDA and Amare and all the horses to run SSOL.

Brunson just needs the same tools around him. If Hart evolves into a solid starter, that will be key. Need one more breakdown-ability wing and then watch out.

Philc1 wrote:

Ira wrote:I don't think of Brunson as a star, but he turns what was a weak position for us into a strength which makes the team much better.

We don’t need him to be a star. We just need him to be good. If he’s simply a good player he’s a massive upgrade over the trash we have dealt with at pg over the years like Elf

And your comparing a 100mil free agent guard to a 8mm per journey man back up who held the position down until Drose gained traction for the 4th seed. Elf got the job done given his salary and expectations. Nobody say’s he was the dude that carried that team, or was suppose to. He won the job because Frank and Dennis could not get it done.
Under Fiz Elf and the whole team sucked. Under Thibs, they were 4th seed. Not becuase of Elf, but he was not detrimental or as you so eloquently say: “Trash”!

I might say its premature to anoint a “Star” but perhaps succeeding were Ray Felton last did on broadway will gain certain exposure and Hype. That most expect knicks to compete for a play in spot at or near .500 provides an opportunity that anything above that will create more positive hype given where the bar was set.
For that, he can be a star. His personality or outward swagger does not promote that though.

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:History has shown that you dont need a star PG to win a chip' . Brunson is better than some past starting championship PGs. Brunson might develop into a star PG, but right now he gives us a level of competency and consistency we havent seen in a long time. Gives the Knicks the ability to move to the next level.

Steve nash was mvp twice. While he isnt going to have 10-12 assists---and what will differentiate him from lowry etc.. is Brunson is an efficient player. Lets let in play out.

so Brunson is now Steve Nash? or Magic Johnson? or Stephen Curry? or a pre-injury Derrick Rose? or Oscar Robertson? or Bob Cousy? or even pre-Westbrick Russell Westbrook?

those are the dudes that won MVP in this league that were points. To be clear, that's seven names in league history. You think that Brunson deserves to be on that list after a good walk year and a great playoffs? What did you think of the Jerome James signing?

IMHO Brunson will have a Nash-lite impact when he gets the right people around him. Nash had MDA and Amare and all the horses to run SSOL.

Brunson just needs the same tools around him. If Hart evolves into a solid starter, that will be key. Need one more breakdown-ability wing and then watch out.

The players conditioning this off season has been elite. I think the off the ball movement around Brunson will be a strength of this team.

The Brunson star claim is pre-mature, I see Brunson having a FVV type effect on the offense. FVV made an all star game this year - meaning that Brunson could be in that conversation with a similar impact on the game.

I can see Brunson being an All Star in the coming years. Not sure if it is this year, the year after. I'd like to see see how he and Fournier co-exist before jumping to conclusions.

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:History has shown that you dont need a star PG to win a chip' . Brunson is better than some past starting championship PGs. Brunson might develop into a star PG, but right now he gives us a level of competency and consistency we havent seen in a long time. Gives the Knicks the ability to move to the next level.

Steve nash was mvp twice. While he isnt going to have 10-12 assists---and what will differentiate him from lowry etc.. is Brunson is an efficient player. Lets let in play out.

so Brunson is now Steve Nash? or Magic Johnson? or Stephen Curry? or a pre-injury Derrick Rose? or Oscar Robertson? or Bob Cousy? or even pre-Westbrick Russell Westbrook?

those are the dudes that won MVP in this league that were points. To be clear, that's seven names in league history. You think that Brunson deserves to be on that list after a good walk year and a great playoffs? What did you think of the Jerome James signing?

IMHO Brunson will have a Nash-lite impact when he gets the right people around him. Nash had MDA and Amare and all the horses to run SSOL.

Brunson just needs the same tools around him. If Hart evolves into a solid starter, that will be key. Need one more breakdown-ability wing and then watch out.

hopefully that's RJ... that's the evolution. RJ already gets to the rim at will. We just need an uptick in finishing and dishing. Especially back to Mr 50% from the corner Brunson

This a guy with 2 national championships, the college player of the year and someone that has been overlooked his entire career.

Why can't he be our Jimmy Butler. Plenty of guys come on late. Billups was highly touted and then forgetten and became one of the best guards in the league. It happens.

He also destroyed the Jazz in the Playoffs. This isn't fucking Jerome games averaging 12&5 in the playoffs. This guy averaged 21.6pts 4.6rbs 3.7assists and helped a team get to the conference finals over 18 games.

His seasons splits are insanely good, 59% at the rim 48% in the midrange and 38% from behind the arc.

There is plenty to be excited about. He has potential to make an All Star team. I would take him over Irving all day everyday.

Philc1 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:History has shown that you dont need a star PG to win a chip' . Brunson is better than some past starting championship PGs. Brunson might develop into a star PG, but right now he gives us a level of competency and consistency we havent seen in a long time. Gives the Knicks the ability to move to the next level.

Steve nash was mvp twice. While he isnt going to have 10-12 assists---and what will differentiate him from lowry etc.. is Brunson is an efficient player. Lets let in play out.

so Brunson is now Steve Nash? or Magic Johnson? or Stephen Curry? or a pre-injury Derrick Rose? or Oscar Robertson? or Bob Cousy? or even pre-Westbrick Russell Westbrook?

those are the dudes that won MVP in this league that were points. To be clear, that's seven names in league history. You think that Brunson deserves to be on that list after a good walk year and a great playoffs? What did you think of the Jerome James signing?

You’re comparing Brunson to a fat center Isiah stupidly signed because he had 2 good playoff games?

Thats what you got from that comment?
I’ll help you, he is insinuating there are over reactions from fans. I have read some very strong expectations about Brunson given the two preseason outings.
We know the drill. Teams will adjust and then we’ll blame Thibs for not being good enough but thinking someone else will be. The old “execution vs adjustment” thing.
Teams will figure out how to stop Jalen. Then its up to others to execute and drop shots.
We have played two week teams and we up to 50 wins by some yet?

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:History has shown that you dont need a star PG to win a chip' . Brunson is better than some past starting championship PGs. Brunson might develop into a star PG, but right now he gives us a level of competency and consistency we havent seen in a long time. Gives the Knicks the ability to move to the next level.

Steve nash was mvp twice. While he isnt going to have 10-12 assists---and what will differentiate him from lowry etc.. is Brunson is an efficient player. Lets let in play out.

so Brunson is now Steve Nash? or Magic Johnson? or Stephen Curry? or a pre-injury Derrick Rose? or Oscar Robertson? or Bob Cousy? or even pre-Westbrick Russell Westbrook?

those are the dudes that won MVP in this league that were points. To be clear, that's seven names in league history. You think that Brunson deserves to be on that list after a good walk year and a great playoffs? What did you think of the Jerome James signing?

You’re comparing Brunson to a fat center Isiah stupidly signed because he had 2 good playoff games?

Thats what you got from that comment?
I’ll help you, he is insinuating there are over reactions from fans. I have read some very strong expectations about Brunson given the two preseason outings.
We know the drill. Teams will adjust and then we’ll blame Thibs for not being good enough but thinking someone else will be. The old “execution vs adjustment” thing.
Teams will figure out how to stop Jalen. Then its up to others to execute and drop shots.
We have played two week teams and we up to 50 wins by some yet?

You assume there is a way to stop Brunson...clearly the flaw in your reasoning.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:History has shown that you dont need a star PG to win a chip' . Brunson is better than some past starting championship PGs. Brunson might develop into a star PG, but right now he gives us a level of competency and consistency we havent seen in a long time. Gives the Knicks the ability to move to the next level.

Steve nash was mvp twice. While he isnt going to have 10-12 assists---and what will differentiate him from lowry etc.. is Brunson is an efficient player. Lets let in play out.

so Brunson is now Steve Nash? or Magic Johnson? or Stephen Curry? or a pre-injury Derrick Rose? or Oscar Robertson? or Bob Cousy? or even pre-Westbrick Russell Westbrook?

those are the dudes that won MVP in this league that were points. To be clear, that's seven names in league history. You think that Brunson deserves to be on that list after a good walk year and a great playoffs? What did you think of the Jerome James signing?

You’re comparing Brunson to a fat center Isiah stupidly signed because he had 2 good playoff games?

Thats what you got from that comment?
I’ll help you, he is insinuating there are over reactions from fans. I have read some very strong expectations about Brunson given the two preseason outings.
We know the drill. Teams will adjust and then we’ll blame Thibs for not being good enough but thinking someone else will be. The old “execution vs adjustment” thing.
Teams will figure out how to stop Jalen. Then its up to others to execute and drop shots.
We have played two week teams and we up to 50 wins by some yet?

You assume there is a way to stop Brunson...clearly the flaw in your reasoning.

his ability to create space and translate it to eff% shooting is surely his strength and its a damn good strength. With RJ/Randle/Fournier you have a really balanced offense and one of the league's best garbage collectors... point is you CANT double Brunson, and you really cant afford a minus defender on him either. So who guars the weak link? I dont really see one. The best part is right away we are seeing Brunson as the first option and him looking great doing that. Having RJ/Randle/Fournier as options 2-4 is REALLY GOOD.

We will see how it plays out but we have 4 starters who are all really good 1 on 1 players and that is really a key to succeeding in this league

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:History has shown that you dont need a star PG to win a chip' . Brunson is better than some past starting championship PGs. Brunson might develop into a star PG, but right now he gives us a level of competency and consistency we havent seen in a long time. Gives the Knicks the ability to move to the next level.

Steve nash was mvp twice. While he isnt going to have 10-12 assists---and what will differentiate him from lowry etc.. is Brunson is an efficient player. Lets let in play out.

so Brunson is now Steve Nash? or Magic Johnson? or Stephen Curry? or a pre-injury Derrick Rose? or Oscar Robertson? or Bob Cousy? or even pre-Westbrick Russell Westbrook?

those are the dudes that won MVP in this league that were points. To be clear, that's seven names in league history. You think that Brunson deserves to be on that list after a good walk year and a great playoffs? What did you think of the Jerome James signing?

You’re comparing Brunson to a fat center Isiah stupidly signed because he had 2 good playoff games?

Thats what you got from that comment?
I’ll help you, he is insinuating there are over reactions from fans. I have read some very strong expectations about Brunson given the two preseason outings.
We know the drill. Teams will adjust and then we’ll blame Thibs for not being good enough but thinking someone else will be. The old “execution vs adjustment” thing.
Teams will figure out how to stop Jalen. Then its up to others to execute and drop shots.
We have played two week teams and we up to 50 wins by some yet?

You assume there is a way to stop Brunson...clearly the flaw in your reasoning.

his ability to create space and translate it to eff% shooting is surely his strength and its a damn good strength. With RJ/Randle/Fournier you have a really balanced offense and one of the league's best garbage collectors... point is you CANT double Brunson, and you really cant afford a minus defender on him either. So who guars the weak link? I dont really see one. The best part is right away we are seeing Brunson as the first option and him looking great doing that. Having RJ/Randle/Fournier as options 2-4 is REALLY GOOD.

We will see how it plays out but we have 4 starters who are all really good 1 on 1 players and that is really a key to succeeding in this league

So, take Toronto with FVV, Gary Trent, OG (or Barnes), and Siakam. I mean, they match up well with us and are maybe a hint more athletic, no?

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:History has shown that you dont need a star PG to win a chip' . Brunson is better than some past starting championship PGs. Brunson might develop into a star PG, but right now he gives us a level of competency and consistency we havent seen in a long time. Gives the Knicks the ability to move to the next level.

Steve nash was mvp twice. While he isnt going to have 10-12 assists---and what will differentiate him from lowry etc.. is Brunson is an efficient player. Lets let in play out.

so Brunson is now Steve Nash? or Magic Johnson? or Stephen Curry? or a pre-injury Derrick Rose? or Oscar Robertson? or Bob Cousy? or even pre-Westbrick Russell Westbrook?

those are the dudes that won MVP in this league that were points. To be clear, that's seven names in league history. You think that Brunson deserves to be on that list after a good walk year and a great playoffs? What did you think of the Jerome James signing?

You’re comparing Brunson to a fat center Isiah stupidly signed because he had 2 good playoff games?

Thats what you got from that comment?
I’ll help you, he is insinuating there are over reactions from fans. I have read some very strong expectations about Brunson given the two preseason outings.
We know the drill. Teams will adjust and then we’ll blame Thibs for not being good enough but thinking someone else will be. The old “execution vs adjustment” thing.
Teams will figure out how to stop Jalen. Then its up to others to execute and drop shots.
We have played two week teams and we up to 50 wins by some yet?

I just thought comparing an athletic young hard working point guard who was coming off an overall very good regular season and playoffs to an obese Center who had 2 good games his entire career that Isiah signed with Dolanbucks was not a valid comparison

I know, crazy.

In order to become a star player, a team sort of needs to have the right amount of talent (or lack of it) in the right places.

Steve Nash doesn't average 11apg if he's sharing the court with a bunch of playmakers. In his 2004-2005 MVP season, the next best assist guy was Joe Johnson, at 3.5apg. Most of the others were well known finishers/spot up shooters.

If Nash is surrounded by playmakers, he ends up being the defacto spot shooter.

Johnson left the Suns the following year and averaged 6.5apg with the Hawks that season, earning an all-star spot. He also left a playmaking void on the Suns. Without JJ, Steve Nash took even more of a hold on offense, earning his 2nd MVP award.

Brunson was stuck behind an MVP candidate. He basically had to adapt his game to make it as an undersized SG in order to earn minutes. I think that says something about his resolve to earn minutes, help his team, AND earn a big contract.

technomaster wrote:In order to become a star player, a team sort of needs to have the right amount of talent (or lack of it) in the right places.

Steve Nash doesn't average 11apg if he's sharing the court with a bunch of playmakers. In his 2004-2005 MVP season, the next best assist guy was Joe Johnson, at 3.5apg. Most of the others were well known finishers/spot up shooters.

If Nash is surrounded by playmakers, he ends up being the defacto spot shooter.

Johnson left the Suns the following year and averaged 6.5apg with the Hawks that season, earning an all-star spot. He also left a playmaking void on the Suns. Without JJ, Steve Nash took even more of a hold on offense, earning his 2nd MVP award.

Brunson was stuck behind an MVP candidate. He basically had to adapt his game to make it as an undersized SG in order to earn minutes. I think that says something about his resolve to earn minutes, help his team, AND earn a big contract.

Disagree. Nash was arguably the best playmaker in the league at the time. If there were more playmakers on the Suns back then. My guess is that they would have still run the offense through
Nash. Especially on a D'Antoni coached team.

GustavBahler wrote:

technomaster wrote:In order to become a star player, a team sort of needs to have the right amount of talent (or lack of it) in the right places.

Steve Nash doesn't average 11apg if he's sharing the court with a bunch of playmakers. In his 2004-2005 MVP season, the next best assist guy was Joe Johnson, at 3.5apg. Most of the others were well known finishers/spot up shooters.

If Nash is surrounded by playmakers, he ends up being the defacto spot shooter.

Johnson left the Suns the following year and averaged 6.5apg with the Hawks that season, earning an all-star spot. He also left a playmaking void on the Suns. Without JJ, Steve Nash took even more of a hold on offense, earning his 2nd MVP award.

Brunson was stuck behind an MVP candidate. He basically had to adapt his game to make it as an undersized SG in order to earn minutes. I think that says something about his resolve to earn minutes, help his team, AND earn a big contract.

Disagree. Nash was arguably the best playmaker in the league at the time. If there were more playmakers on the Suns back then. My guess is that they would have still run the offense through
Nash. Especially on a D'Antoni coached team.

Jason Kidd would wrap another car around a tree if he read this.

He's a tough and savvy player. Not sure he's a "star," but he's the best player we've had at his position in a long time, and he's in his prime, having just turned 26. Another plus is that he's only averaged about 25 minutes a game, with last season being his first 30MPG+ season.

The guy is just a very solid player. I really don't care if he's a "star" as long as he helps the team win, and winning is part of his player pedigree.

Kidd was a better PG overall. A legit two way player. But during Nash's MVP years, he was the best playmaker in the league IMO. Was a magician with the ball.

EwingsGlass wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

technomaster wrote:In order to become a star player, a team sort of needs to have the right amount of talent (or lack of it) in the right places.

Steve Nash doesn't average 11apg if he's sharing the court with a bunch of playmakers. In his 2004-2005 MVP season, the next best assist guy was Joe Johnson, at 3.5apg. Most of the others were well known finishers/spot up shooters.

If Nash is surrounded by playmakers, he ends up being the defacto spot shooter.

Johnson left the Suns the following year and averaged 6.5apg with the Hawks that season, earning an all-star spot. He also left a playmaking void on the Suns. Without JJ, Steve Nash took even more of a hold on offense, earning his 2nd MVP award.

Brunson was stuck behind an MVP candidate. He basically had to adapt his game to make it as an undersized SG in order to earn minutes. I think that says something about his resolve to earn minutes, help his team, AND earn a big contract.

Disagree. Nash was arguably the best playmaker in the league at the time. If there were more playmakers on the Suns back then. My guess is that they would have still run the offense through
Nash. Especially on a D'Antoni coached team.

Jason Kidd would wrap another car around a tree if he read this.

Prime Kidd vs Prime Nash?

I’d take Kidd in a nanosecond but Prime Nash could win regular season nba games with 4 division 2 players

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Hes been building up under the radar sincc he came into NBA and really revealed in last years playoffs. Hes going to stabilize and correct some woes we had last year. our differential will change and we will get many more Ws

Stars can take over a game, by themselves, at a consistent basis.
JB came in to the garden and looked meh. He had a couple of games where he looked like a star,without LD's help, in the playoffs. He would have to do that A LOT more to be considered a star.
Keep in mind, on a team like the Knicks he will be focused on more defensively then when he played alongside one of the best players on the planet

Was cautious when we signed him. Cautious with high expectations. Worried about his score first mentality and how it would fit with RJ and Randle.
Pleasantly surprised with his offensive ability and shooting accuracy early on. Think he is a bull and has heart. Still worried about him being too much shoot first. Worried about his size vs taller elite PG's. Think we are still MUCH better than we have been for a long time at that spot.
Hoping he is able to add more creation for others and can elevate his game against the better teams.

HofstraBBall wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Hes been building up under the radar sincc he came into NBA and really revealed in last years playoffs. Hes going to stabilize and correct some woes we had last year. our differential will change and we will get many more Ws

Stars can take over a game, by themselves, at a consistent basis.
JB came in to the garden and looked meh. He had a couple of games where he looked like a star,without LD's help, in the playoffs. He would have to do that A LOT more to be considered a star.
Keep in mind, on a team like the Knicks he will be focused on more defensively then when he played alongside one of the best players on the planet

Was cautious when we signed him. Cautious with high expectations. Worried about his score first mentality and how it would fit with RJ and Randle.
Pleasantly surprised with his offensive ability and shooting accuracy early on. Think he is a bull and has heart. Still worried about him being too much shoot first. Worried about his size vs taller elite PG's. Think we are still MUCH better than we have been for a long time at that spot.
Hoping he is able to add more creation for others and can elevate his game against the better teams.

Yep. I like his interactions with Mitch in the early going, tho it could improve. I can see Grimes, Fournier, Rose and IQ forming better chemistry with JB as the season progresses. Randle and RJ? We'll see...