Swishfm3 wrote:lol...Bunch of clowns in here. This just shows how much basketball people here watch. Mitchell didn't do anything new last night against the Knicks. He has been playing like this since year one. But we want to cry about RJ and a bunch of protected picks. pfft
Originally Ainge wanted RJ, Grimes, Fournier, IQ and 4 Unprotected picks, 2 protected picks and pick swaps.
The final count was RJ, Grimes, Fournier, IQ 3 unprotected picks and pick swaps.
Chandler wrote:Price was too high. Love his alpha attitude but water under the bridge nowI want a rematch where we have grimes and we deny love the ball. Very winnable last night
Also DM and garland can be great but their size will be a vulnerability. We’d have same situation if we got him
Dude looked like Michael Jordan. If you think Grimes is going to make a difference, then honestly that is laughable.
If the price was too high, I'd argue it was about right for a star player entering his prime.
If the FO didn't pull the trigger because they felt Aigne was trying to extort us, I guess that is ok.
Yes - water under the bridge, but I regret personally my thinking on the matter, and we should have done more to get the deal done.
wargames wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:lol...Bunch of clowns in here. This just shows how much basketball people here watch. Mitchell didn't do anything new last night against the Knicks. He has been playing like this since year one. But we want to cry about RJ and a bunch of protected picks. pfft
Originally Ainge wanted RJ, Grimes, Fournier, IQ and 4 Unprotected picks, 2 protected picks and pick swaps.
The final count was RJ, Grimes, Fournier, IQ 3 unprotected picks and pick swaps.
If that is really what would have gotten the deal done, we made a mistake passing on it. I thought before that was too much. I made a mistake.
I think we are over valuing DM on this game and even on the start of this season. DM is a career 36% 3pts shooter. He's shooting 45% since the beginning of this season.
Love is shooting 47%, Levert 48% (he's a 33% career shooter), undrafted D Wade 62% from 3. They had a good shooting night and our defense gave them open looks.
Statistically, their shooting will drop significantly later in the season and DM probably won't look like a potential MVP. Last year, the cavs were a 35% 3pts shooting team. Basically league average. They are a 42% now. This is a fluke.
DM is a good player but it's arguable that he's worth all that Ainge was supposed to require in the trade with the knicks.
franco12 wrote:Chandler wrote:Price was too high. Love his alpha attitude but water under the bridge nowI want a rematch where we have grimes and we deny love the ball. Very winnable last night
Also DM and garland can be great but their size will be a vulnerability. We’d have same situation if we got him
Dude looked like Michael Jordan. If you think Grimes is going to make a difference, then honestly that is laughable.
If the price was too high, I'd argue it was about right for a star player entering his prime.
If the FO didn't pull the trigger because they felt Aigne was trying to extort us, I guess that is ok.
Yes - water under the bridge, but I regret personally my thinking on the matter, and we should have done more to get the deal done.
So you are fine with RJ, 2 of the 3 of IQ, Obi, Grimes, 3 unprotected picks, Pick swaps and potentially some of the protected picks? How far do you think JB, Randle and Mitchell team is going? We would have no bench and no way to improve the bench. Randle is not efficient enough to be a big 3 of anything. He is playing much better this year but not enough to be considered part of a big 3. We would have 2 short guards and Evan. Bro, that team would be trash and have no options.
Lets not talk about how we have to give up most of our core but the Cavs only had to give up 2 players they no longer wanted anyway. Lauri looks good this year but he was unwanted and Sexton was unsigned and coming off a knee injury. The Cavs are a way more talented team so their picks after a Mitchell trade are way less value than ours is. So the fact that Ainge went with them makes no sense unless he wanted us to overpay or he was never going to trade with us anyway. I am sorry but Mitchell having a good game vs us is not going to change the facts of the situation. So my mind has not been swayed one bit on this topic.
franco12 wrote:wargames wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:lol...Bunch of clowns in here. This just shows how much basketball people here watch. Mitchell didn't do anything new last night against the Knicks. He has been playing like this since year one. But we want to cry about RJ and a bunch of protected picks. pfft
Originally Ainge wanted RJ, Grimes, Fournier, IQ and 4 Unprotected picks, 2 protected picks and pick swaps.
The final count was RJ, Grimes, Fournier, IQ 3 unprotected picks and pick swaps.
If that is really what would have gotten the deal done, we made a mistake passing on it. I thought before that was too much. I made a mistake.
That is on par with what the Lakers paid for AD and we aren’t adding DM to a team with a Lebron level player or even a healthy AD level player.
Clean wrote:franco12 wrote:Chandler wrote:Price was too high. Love his alpha attitude but water under the bridge nowI want a rematch where we have grimes and we deny love the ball. Very winnable last night
Also DM and garland can be great but their size will be a vulnerability. We’d have same situation if we got him
Dude looked like Michael Jordan. If you think Grimes is going to make a difference, then honestly that is laughable.
If the price was too high, I'd argue it was about right for a star player entering his prime.
If the FO didn't pull the trigger because they felt Aigne was trying to extort us, I guess that is ok.
Yes - water under the bridge, but I regret personally my thinking on the matter, and we should have done more to get the deal done.
So you are fine with RJ, 2 of the 3 of IQ, Obi, Grimes, 3 unprotected picks, Pick swaps and potentially some of the protected picks? How far do you think JB, Randle and Mitchell team is going? We would have no bench and no way to improve the bench. Randle is not efficient enough to be a big 3 of anything. He is playing much better this year but not enough to be considered part of a big 3. We would have 2 short guards and Evan. Bro, that team would be trash and have no options.
Lets not talk about how we have to give up most of our core but the Cavs only had to give up 2 players they no longer wanted anyway. Lauri looks good this year but he was unwanted and Sexton was unsigned and coming off a knee injury. The Cavs are a way more talented team so their picks after a Mitchell trade are way less value than ours is. So the fact that Ainge went with them makes no sense unless he wanted us to overpay or he was never going to trade with us anyway. I am sorry but Mitchell having a good game vs us is not going to change the facts of the situation. So my mind has not been swayed one bit on this topic.
He only wanted to trade with the Knicks if he could rob them. Him going to the Cavs to get that offer and then not coming back to the Knicks tells you everything about his mindset regarding the Knicks.
BRIGGS wrote:We missed a star player in Mitchell. Probably won’t get same opportunity. No blame here but we bluntly missed
No doubt Mitchell was an incredible opportunity. But we may want to pin this until we see how they do in playoffs. Knicks view was obviously that we would be better with such a talent. However, they also felt team left would not be enough to win a chip. We shall see if the team in Cleveland is enough to win one. Not sure Kevin Love and Garland will be enough.
Fer chrissakes are we really soiling ourselves - again - over this? Six games into the season and after one game with the Cavs? Of course we are - that’s what we do.
It’s called “the long view” kids. Look it up.
We've been through seasons with all stars on the roster, a so so bench, and few 1st round draft picks. That seems to be the past some posters want to revisit.
Dont have to be a mindreader to know that the FO really wanted to close the deal for Mitchell. Hung in all summer. Leon and company crunched the numbers, and found that we wouldnt be left with much to build on.
Grimes likely wouldnt have shut DM down, but he would have probably done a beter job of slowing Mitchell down. That and better 3pt D, and maybe we have a different outcome.
We still have plenty of picks to use in a trade, while keeping some of them to develop talent. We have the best starting PG in decades, a solid bench, we arent that far away from contending. If we dont pay a league leading price for a star, like we would have for Mitchell.
I think the real question is are our guys any good?
IQ - solid bench roll player
RJ - still has a lot of bad habits going to the rim, but a workhorse
Obi - looks great in transition, but struggles in the half court
It all falls on Grimes. He needs to average 15 points this season when he comes back.
If we are going to battle and get the 13 pick and be in the play in game, I think giving the Lakers, Cam/Randle/Fournier for Russ and 2 first rounders makes a lot of sense. I would rather watch Brunson, Grimes, RJ, Toppin and Mitch battle and improve our draft position and clear some cap room.
It's only a matter of time before Orlando leaps above us, Indy is coming with their backcourt, we need to figure out how to get more talent in hear asap.
Not trading for Donovan Mitchell is the reason this team has been a loser for two decades, other than a few years here and there. Convincing yourselves you don't need an all-star level player because he's a "bad fit", and holding onto assets that will just be mid, is the reason this team will struggle to make the playoffs forever.
KnickDanger wrote:Fer chrissakes are we really soiling ourselves - again - over this? Six games into the season and after one game with the Cavs? Of course we are - that’s what we do.It’s called “the long view” kids. Look it up.
Remember when the nets were going to win multiple championships with KD and Kyrie and make the Knicks look stupid?
MS wrote:I think the real question is are our guys any good?IQ - solid bench roll player
RJ - still has a lot of bad habits going to the rim, but a workhorse
Obi - looks great in transition, but struggles in the half court
It all falls on Grimes. He needs to average 15 points this season when he comes back.
If we are going to battle and get the 13 pick and be in the play in game, I think giving the Lakers, Cam/Randle/Fournier for Russ and 2 first rounders makes a lot of sense. I would rather watch Brunson, Grimes, RJ, Toppin and Mitch battle and improve our draft position and clear some cap room.
It's only a matter of time before Orlando leaps above us, Indy is coming with their backcourt, we need to figure out how to get more talent in hear asap.
What if one of the draft picks turns out to be the next Latrell Sprewell? We have a regime here that knows how to draft
This is a cautionary tale on why you never go all in for a player when you don't have
1 - the talent to be a contender.
2 - The assets left over to get other players that will make you a contender.
3 - Good team Balance after the trade.
The Mitchell trade would have left us with a no in all of these situations. The Wolves went all in on a team that is looking like will hover about .500. Their team imbalance is a team with two big 7 footers in a league built around pace and space. Our imbalance would have been 2 small guards with Evan which means we would have been at a disadvantage on defense at the guard position every night.
Getting Mitchell and having no bench depth would make the Knicks the same as the 2-6 Brooklyn Nets !!!
Alpha1971 wrote:Knicks made a very fair offer, Utah preferred the Cleveland offer. Move on.
Cavs offer was better. The players they received will return picks too.
They have made some nice selections.
But, nothing unbelievable. Obi over Haliburton, Maxey, Bey, Stewart, Vessel. Obi isn’t better than any of them. Quick is solid, Desmond Bane was on the board too.
If Grimes becomes what we all hope, then they are solid in the draft.
It was too much, but have to fault Leon if they had a plan in place to get Brunson, Fournier, Noel, Rose, Burks, Kemba. Jalen Duran is a stud already and we had to give up first rounders to get rid of bad contracts and grab Cam Reddish.
They have been questionable on a lot of fronts so far. Will give them the benefit of the doubt.
BRIGGS wrote:We missed a star player in Mitchell. Probably won’t get same opportunity. No blame here but we bluntly missed
3-1 everything was wonderful. 3-3, after a maestro performance by DM the impressionable are like “hey, this DM dude is really good, he just kicked our ass”.
Nobody calling for Kevin Love and his supermodel wife too?
So when the pundits call that knicks improved, but will struggle for playoff spot what did one expect?
After soft preseason and start we all about freaking out again?
We want Johnny Byrant to take over one day but cool with MDA being “offensive coordinator” and stepping over his whole staff with the though JB can be Nash or Lin over night?
We made our bed for the long term by not getting DMitchell. 6 games fans are gone from that? Alrighty then!
Here is the bottom line: Knicks are one of the best teams in the league in terms of picks and young players and being in the position to trade for a star. We need not be so desperate as to thrown down the whole wad of cash for the first stripper that comes on stage and can be particular about seeing the whole night's lineup before ordering up some champagne.
Also: The Knicks signed the best UFA whose team toasted Mitchell and his team in the playoffs last year.
If RJ Barrett turns out to nothing (he won’t and I think he’ll turn it around sooner than later) I would still think not going with the trade is a good thing. DM, JR and JB will never go far in the playoffs and that’s who we would be stuck with.
We still have wiggle room. We have many options. Wait for something that can actually make us contenders. Simply being better than the past 20 years isn’t enough.
