Knicks · [Game Thread 11/2/22] Knicks vs Hawks 7:30PM (page 6)
Clean wrote:martin wrote:Clean wrote:The thing about that Randle steal is he should not have ISO there but RJ was also a problem. He is not a threat from 3 so DJM just doubles off him one pass away without a care in the world. These guys can't be played with each other. They are constantly in each others way.IMHO neither player has a high level BBIQ, we see it more overtly with Randle and probably on a sliding scale with RJ cause of his age but I just don't think he has it either.
I'll state it emphatically: I think the FO and coaching staff knows this very well but you coach up those guys as best you can and see what unfolds at the right time.
You are quick with the quotes. I ended up deleting it because I don't want to be the guy who constantly repeats himself. I am trying to be self aware.
No worries. Your tweet above about Randle is even more damning.
He just never plays smart basketball. He has talent but his decision making goes in and out. Gotta make a shot too, same for RJ. Nothing works without those 2 guys being much better.
How many players do we have on our team that can do that? We have player that can barely guard their own position. They or RJ or the coaching staff that study’s film should’ve seen these back door picks coming and plan for it.
Hey we will win soon in a huge blow out and maybe we’ll be back on track. Meanwhile our next two games are against a playoff team. So don’t be surprised if we are 3-7
I’m just tired of being mediocre. Either we suck real bad or we are a playoff team. This middle of the road stuff is for the birds. So glad I only saw the 1st half. This team will drive you 😜
martin wrote:Clean wrote:martin wrote:Clean wrote:The thing about that Randle steal is he should not have ISO there but RJ was also a problem. He is not a threat from 3 so DJM just doubles off him one pass away without a care in the world. These guys can't be played with each other. They are constantly in each others way.IMHO neither player has a high level BBIQ, we see it more overtly with Randle and probably on a sliding scale with RJ cause of his age but I just don't think he has it either.
I'll state it emphatically: I think the FO and coaching staff knows this very well but you coach up those guys as best you can and see what unfolds at the right time.
You are quick with the quotes. I ended up deleting it because I don't want to be the guy who constantly repeats himself. I am trying to be self aware.
No worries. Your tweet above about Randle is even more damning.
He just never plays smart basketball. He has talent but his decision making goes in and out. Gotta make a shot too, same for RJ. Nothing works without those 2 guys being much better.
Building around RJ and Randle was a flawed decision from the job. That’s why I liked the Obi draft because it felt like the FO was removing Randle and building around RJ. The problem is you can’t have two alpha dogs on the same team, and both lefty and both low IQ high inefficient volume shooters. Maybe one but two? And these two are getting the most mins? This was never going to end well from the jump. It can still be saved with just a few tweaks.
We have a good team, good coach and good FO. But for some reason it’s all out of sync. It’s like the FO forgot who thibs is. Why hire a veteran defensive coach in thibs and give him a roster that lacks defense or vets (outside of EF, Randle, Rose we are fairly young).
The finger pointing starts at the stop and rolls down. The FO needs to step up and put these dudes on a position to succeed, starting with the head coach.
blkexec wrote:Martin. Those are great clips to discuss. It really highlights the lack of IQ on this team. We will continue to have an up and down season with the way this team and coaching staff is constructed. T.Young pick on Mitch was a play they do a lot. And to guard those pick and rolls takes length, IQ, agility and defensive flexibility. Meaning players who can guard multiple positions. This is why Murray is so dangerous. He can guard 1-3How many players do we have on our team that can do that? We have player that can barely guard their own position. They or RJ or the coaching staff that study’s film should’ve seen these back door picks coming and plan for it.
Hey we will win soon in a huge blow out and maybe we’ll be back on track. Meanwhile our next two games are against a playoff team. So don’t be surprised if we are 3-7
I’m just tired of being mediocre. Either we suck real bad or we are a playoff team. This middle of the road stuff is for the birds. So glad I only saw the 1st half. This team will drive you 😜
The Knicks are about a .500 team. They'll be up and down just about every other game. They are 3-4 and the losses come against decent teams.
I keep asking myself: who on the team can you imagine on a deep playoff team, meaning who has the talent and know-how to really get there. All I can envision - and this includes young guys getting better - is Brunson and Grimes as starters. IQ, Hart, and maybe Obi as bench guys (I don't think Rose has it any more but maybe he is just still finding his way slowly). Maybe you can bring Randle off bench on a good team, same with Mitch.
That's it IMHO.
Gotta keep grinding though
martin wrote:blkexec wrote:Martin. Those are great clips to discuss. It really highlights the lack of IQ on this team. We will continue to have an up and down season with the way this team and coaching staff is constructed. T.Young pick on Mitch was a play they do a lot. And to guard those pick and rolls takes length, IQ, agility and defensive flexibility. Meaning players who can guard multiple positions. This is why Murray is so dangerous. He can guard 1-3How many players do we have on our team that can do that? We have player that can barely guard their own position. They or RJ or the coaching staff that study’s film should’ve seen these back door picks coming and plan for it.
Hey we will win soon in a huge blow out and maybe we’ll be back on track. Meanwhile our next two games are against a playoff team. So don’t be surprised if we are 3-7
I’m just tired of being mediocre. Either we suck real bad or we are a playoff team. This middle of the road stuff is for the birds. So glad I only saw the 1st half. This team will drive you 😜
The Knicks are about a .500 team. They'll be up and down just about every other game. They are 3-4 and the losses come against decent teams.
I keep asking myself: who on the team can you imagine on a deep playoff team, meaning who has the talent and know-how to really get there. All I can envision - and this includes young guys getting better - is Brunson and Grimes as starters. IQ, Hart, and maybe Obi as bench guys (I don't think Rose has it any more but maybe he is just still finding his way slowly). Maybe you can bring Randle off bench on a good team, same with Mitch.
That's it IMHO.
Gotta keep grinding though
It's difficult to assess a player's real value. It really depends on who they are surrounded with. I'm not sure if you switch Wiggins and RJ between the Warriors and the Knicks, Wiggins does not end up an inefficient scorer and RJ a major piece to the Warrior dynasty. We've got to find the one player that makes others job easier. I'd really like if RJ could be that guy. I feel like luck is a big part of a team's success.
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You might have to click on the tweet to read it fully but he makes some good points.
shinmen wrote:I think we ought to give the team 20/30 games before evaluating the season. Every one except Fournier and Toppin are shooting a career low from 3pts territory. That's a temporary situation.
RJ is clearly not an elite shooter but he's neither a 22% 3pts shooter. As for Randle, he has never been a good shooter except for his one good season, I don't understand why he shoots that many 3s.
The bucks are expected to beat us, the cavs are red hot from 3 now but it won't probably last and the hawks game was a horrible second half. It's not like it's a blowout from beginning to end.
We'll be better than we are playing now but there are a lot of teams that should be better than us. Most of the time, we will end up with a defeat in these games.
I would rather it was a blowout from beginning to end. The fact that the Knicks were up big in the second and looked to be a laugher and then they wilted like last week's pansies made it incredibly painful to watch. Again, it seems that there is no leader on the court to stabilize things when the momentum turns against them. I have to say, I'm not as thrilled with Brunson leading the charge as some here. I expected him to be a better distributor and get more people involved. I don't see that. I just see a guy that is so herky jerky in his movements (which makes him an effective scorer) but which also may make him unable to see the court, or for his teammates to know where to be or what to expect. I'm sorry to say, I'm not a big fan so far.
that said, i think we need to figure out what to do with EF more than anything else
blkexec wrote:martin wrote:Clean wrote:martin wrote:Clean wrote:The thing about that Randle steal is he should not have ISO there but RJ was also a problem. He is not a threat from 3 so DJM just doubles off him one pass away without a care in the world. These guys can't be played with each other. They are constantly in each others way.IMHO neither player has a high level BBIQ, we see it more overtly with Randle and probably on a sliding scale with RJ cause of his age but I just don't think he has it either.
I'll state it emphatically: I think the FO and coaching staff knows this very well but you coach up those guys as best you can and see what unfolds at the right time.
You are quick with the quotes. I ended up deleting it because I don't want to be the guy who constantly repeats himself. I am trying to be self aware.
No worries. Your tweet above about Randle is even more damning.
He just never plays smart basketball. He has talent but his decision making goes in and out. Gotta make a shot too, same for RJ. Nothing works without those 2 guys being much better.
Building around RJ and Randle was a flawed decision from the job. That’s why I liked the Obi draft because it felt like the FO was removing Randle and building around RJ. The problem is you can’t have two alpha dogs on the same team, and both lefty and both low IQ high inefficient volume shooters. Maybe one but two? And these two are getting the most mins? This was never going to end well from the jump. It can still be saved with just a few tweaks.
We have a good team, good coach and good FO. But for some reason it’s all out of sync. It’s like the FO forgot who thibs is. Why hire a veteran defensive coach in thibs and give him a roster that lacks defense or vets (outside of EF, Randle, Rose we are fairly young).
The finger pointing starts at the stop and rolls down. The FO needs to step up and put these dudes on a position to succeed, starting with the head coach.
This!
and all this before the boo birds start and get under Randle's skin again. I feel bad for him and think on a different team - he would fit well and be valued/appreciated. He's just in the wrong role as the best player on a sub-par team. He's a great 3rd option that can occasionally have big nights and carry the load. He maybe could even do it better if he was surrounded with 4 defensive outside shooting players (like Milw) but we're nowhere close to that.
Unless RJ picks it up - he may no longer be the closest to untouchable that we have on our roster. Either way 3 seasons of Randle and RJ should give us enough information to draw this conclusion.
Chandler wrote:every team gets knocked on their ass once in a while. hopefully this squad can show it can take a punchthat said, i think we need to figure out what to do with EF more than anything else
They showed clearly in each of the last 3 games that they cannot take a punch.
When the opponent rallies, they play like scared schoolgirls.
Panos wrote:Chandler wrote:every team gets knocked on their ass once in a while. hopefully this squad can show it can take a punchthat said, i think we need to figure out what to do with EF more than anything else
They showed clearly in each of the last 3 games that they cannot take a punch.
When the opponent rallies, they play like scared schoolgirls.
Or Thibs refuse to make real time changes. His rigid rotations are based on time or mins which is what most or all coaches do. But you have to be flexible because basketball is dynamic. Changes from 1 half to the other and momentum plays help make the shift. Obi and IQ create momentum shifting plays.
Like some games Fournier and Randle need to sit. Maybe bring deuce off the bench to ruff up T. Young…..Sims was an option at some point when Mitch sat and we kept giving up offensive rebounds. Or simply IQ and Obi who are the 2 closest players on the team, already showed us what they can do together end of last year. I’m not a HOF or COY but if those 2 got it going and the starters don’t, I’m leaving them on the floor, instead of doing my normal substitution partners. I mean something that simple. Obi and IQ was rolling and the game was slipping. And Randle was struggling. I thought Thibs had plenty of opportunities to sit him and leave Obi out there. But I’m just an ignorant fan starving for a team that’s not a complete embarrassment.
Just frustrating when we are clearly one solid change away from being a dangerous team to play. Either a trade or rotation change or both.
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Brunson
RJ
Grimes
Toppin
Mitch
The Knicks roster has no star-players on the roster that should be averaging above 30 minutes or 15 FGA per game. The Knicks have a complete roster that plays well in a 10 or 11 Man rotation.
Coach Thibs & Randle are COY & MIP ONLY in an empty stadium without fans cheering, and Knicks opponent's athleticism exciting the crowd.
RJ Barrett's performance has never had the talent to be a NBA starter, Barrett's skills at SG/SF deserve 18 to 20 minutes per game, because Barrett's offense are always inconsistent, and as a defender Knicks opponent always pick Barrett to score on easy going down the stretch.
Fournier will never be an offensive threat from the perimeter for the Knicks when both Randle & Barrett refuse to provide screens for Fournier in their lineup. When u recall the screens Draymond Green & Iggy set for Curry & Klay to get an open look for the team perimeter shooter it gives the team a threat from the perimeter.
Brunson has average 26 minutes per game in his 4 year career in the NBA.
Brunson is on a new team that has an experience veteran D.Rose as his back-up.
How come in the 7 games the Knicks played it doesn't look like D.Rose is Brunson backup PG ???
And I liked what D.Rose leadership were doing with Quickley & Obi Toppin growth in a lineup.
Panos wrote:WORST GAME EVER. I think I puked. Twice.
Sive we are firing up threads from the beginning of the season. Maybe a little perspective will help
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Some Randle stats