Knicks · Fire Thibs (page 10)
Nalod wrote:Wait, is this a tank?
How that work anyway?
Losing feels bad. I not losing sleep. We lose, we draft better. We win, Its fun.
Get mad and do the blame thing? Fuck that noise.
I can't fix this shit. Any of you can't either. What is it about these early games?
I like Thibs. It think he hates losing. Nobody is happy.
IM tired of thinking new coach, new FO gonna save the day.
If its a tank and they fire Thibs then Fitzdale is the logical choice to coach to ensure the tank tanks.
blkexec wrote:How quick we forget
I don't think anyone forgot, it's just that nothing came out of those reports as of yet. Also, have to wonder who was feeding WWW the info to come to that conclusion. The coaching staff? Players?
We could use a player like that version of Nerlens now.
Jimbo5 wrote:Has Thibs deviated from his defense schemes from 2 seasons ago where the knicks were among the to top defensive teams in the NBA.this year's 3pt/perimeter defense is pathetic. Is burks and Bullock from 2 years back that good defensively? I think in terms of personel Grimes, Cam and deuce should fortify the perimiter. RJ this year mysteriously took a step back defensively. Maybe Rj got infected by what ever Randle has, if his offense doesnt show up, his willingness to pay defense leaves the hardcourt as well. This team needs a new voice in the locker room, if the Front office doesn't see that, then its not just Thibs that needs to be fired even the entire front office. It seems like this front office has as a habit of not capitalizing on offseason opportunities maybe for fear of making a mistake but it's slowly showing that their inaction is becoming part of their mistake.
I thought I read an article that said in 2020, when we ‘defended’ the 3 so well, it was not that we were close as a defender, teams just happened to miss the open looks.
I can’t find that at all. Maybe someone else remembers reading it.
What I took from that was 2020 was a total fluke- the defensive competence partly a mirage.
I was able to find a team shooting stat on NBA.com, and the one thing I can say is we are missing our wide open 3’s- it looks like we’re near dead last.
That means when our shooters are wide open, they are missing 3s. And that might be the biggest difference. RJ worked on his ft, not his 3pt shooting. Obi, our best 3pt shooter! Can’t get in the game for more than 17 minutes a night.
Nobody can know how much our young players will improve or not in the future. However there is something wrong if most of our roster is playing worse than in the past. The coaching staff does not play to our players strength and should be replaced by someone with a new philosophy.
We don't have the best talent pool in the league but they are better than what they're currently showing on the court.
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On pace to destroy another bad defense record.
Jimbo5 wrote:Has Thibs deviated from his defense schemes from 2 seasons ago where the knicks were among the to top defensive teams in the NBA.this year's 3pt/perimeter defense is pathetic. Is burks and Bullock from 2 years back that good defensively? I think in terms of personel Grimes, Cam and deuce should fortify the perimiter. RJ this year mysteriously took a step back defensively. Maybe Rj got infected by what ever Randle has, if his offense doesnt show up, his willingness to pay defense leaves the hardcourt as well. This team needs a new voice in the locker room, if the Front office doesn't see that, then its not just Thibs that needs to be fired even the entire front office. It seems like this front office has as a habit of not capitalizing on offseason opportunities maybe for fear of making a mistake but it's slowly showing that their inaction is becoming part of their mistake.
Obviously it was so long ago it was hard to find all the articles on it but I found one.
"Heading into the All-Star break, the Knicks were the luckiest team in the league. Despite giving up the fifth-most wide-open field-goal attempts in the NBA at the time, opponents were shooting just 37.7 percent on those looks. It was even more ridiculous when you realized the Knicks had allowed the third-most wide-open 3-pointers but ranked first in opponents’ shooting on those attempts at 33.7 percent!"
"At the end of it all, Knicks opponents shot just 38.8 percent on wide-open looks this season, the second-worst rate, but the team allowed the eighth-most wide-open attempts. Maybe this luck will continue through their postseason run, but the Knicks’ regular season has felt unreal and unsustainable, and it might just be."
The ending is very funny because as we all know the luck did not extend into the playoffs. Do you understand how lucky we had to be to allow the 3rd most OPEN 3pt shots in the league and have the best percentage of opponents shooting it? Crazy! All of our years of bad draft luck culminated into one lucky year of opponents missing wide open shots.
I am no NBA player and was never even close to being one but some things I was taught on defense I think were really good. I remember being taught that you don't always have to make a home run play. If you made the other player take a tough shot you did your job. If they make a tough shot you tell them good job. The reason is that if you foul they have a way higher percentage than taking a contested shot. If they make the tough shot you want them to keep on shooting them because the percentage of them continually making it is not in their favor. Overhelping on drives just give NBA players practice shots with no one near them. It is the reason why every scrub we play against get career highs vs us.
We know the best teams are really good at both.
Or, be good at one at the price of the other. Like Milwaukee.
First things we do is call Johnny Bryant to meeting and ask what he’d do differently. Not stab his boss in the back.
We have a FO, Players (except DRose), and coach that has not won big on their own.
Fans want someone that did it. We tried with Phil to install that culture. Don’t mean. You don’t keep trying.
Sam Presti is happy in OKC. When we throw money at dudes it does not work.
This is Leon/Thibs third season and its not over.
We have more yoot, more talent, and more picks than three years ago.
If you leverage it we could be better, but there is a plan to defer to the future. We did take a risk with Brunson. Seems like a good one. Fans were like “finally a real PG! That should help! No more ELF, we gonna win!”. Not yet.
Isiah took a similar team that was floundering and leveraged it up FAST. It was a disaster.
That does not mean every one fails if we try that? Of course not. But in 2.25 seasons is it really fair to say its time to bail?
If you lay it on Dolan he could say “Fuckk this slow build, I want results fast!” How does that work? Does that movie play itself out like it did in the past? Usually it means there is a ceiling to how far we can go. If we tanking, if fans want a higher pick, this is how it feels. Pretty bad.
Fan expectations vs. reality. Fans are the paying customer and it matters. Bailing on mistakes like EF costs. Then we upset about that? You Really want to dump a pick or IQ to move EF? Might feel good but it won’t help this year.
Maybe If upset at Thibs its because he can’t make EF fit. Thats one piece. We back to the blame game.
What is the connections with the FO and coach? Cam has worked out. I realize Thibs did not want to install a piece mid season. I can respect that.
Im dumfounded why they are so bad at home. So bad at early games. These kids out having fun? That on the coach? I don’t think so.
Its also every coach seemingly over the last 20 years also.
I have far more questions than answers.
Jimbo5 wrote:Father time has finally caught up with Thibs' old ways. Prioritizing rim protection and gambling on leaving the 3 pt shot open is a recipe for disaster in today's NBA. I hope the FO realizes this and finally let thibs go. John Macri said in the event thibs gets fired and then he is replaced by Johnny Bryant it will be foolish for fans to assume that things will instantly bemuch better. Implementing a new scheme mid season will just ba a tall order. If thibs gets canned can that be a signal of a full on tank for Victor? Can thys also make a firesale for the veterans? Can they also trade 1 or 2 of the centers? This roster was poorly formed with Thibs in mind if ge is gone the FO should try to fix the constuction of the roster.
Some good concepts there. If Thibs is made gone Bryant should then should spread the minutes around more even if it means losing. Obi either makes the grade or he too will not be part of the future.
Is there a path were Randle does less?
Is RJ not being utilized properly? Does front office frustrated that he is not off to a good start? Is a valid? “Whose to blame”?
Does Bryant and Thibs not on the same page? Thibs trying to win now too much? If so, whats Bryant’s job security if he lays it back? What if Thibs was told “its ok to not win now, please think longer term”? Thibs or Bryant, or Udoka, or whom ever, how does that change things now and in the future?
Did Thibs want Ef and now can’t make it work? That because he loves Grimes or has failed? Grimes was not suppose to be this good this fast. That on Thibs too? LOL
MitchRob? He beasts and frustrated by his lack of plays called for him? Is that legit to winning?
What if he is let free is there pain to endure? It helps the tank?
We can do this all day long. If Thibs is on the hot seat, what is it for? “Winning now but not?”, “Not developing the kids enough, and since we not winning, its a problem?” “X’s and O’s are not modern for this roster”?
More questions than answers.
Nalod wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:Father time has finally caught up with Thibs' old ways. Prioritizing rim protection and gambling on leaving the 3 pt shot open is a recipe for disaster in today's NBA. I hope the FO realizes this and finally let thibs go. John Macri said in the event thibs gets fired and then he is replaced by Johnny Bryant it will be foolish for fans to assume that things will instantly bemuch better. Implementing a new scheme mid season will just ba a tall order. If thibs gets canned can that be a signal of a full on tank for Victor? Can thys also make a firesale for the veterans? Can they also trade 1 or 2 of the centers? This roster was poorly formed with Thibs in mind if ge is gone the FO should try to fix the constuction of the roster.Some good concepts there. If Thibs is made gone Bryant should then should spread the minutes around more even if it means losing. Obi either makes the grade or he too will not be part of the future.
Is there a path were Randle does less?
Is RJ not being utilized properly? Does front office frustrated that he is not off to a good start? Is a valid? “Whose to blame”?
Does Bryant and Thibs not on the same page? Thibs trying to win now too much? If so, whats Bryant’s job security if he lays it back? What if Thibs was told “its ok to not win now, please think longer term”? Thibs or Bryant, or Udoka, or whom ever, how does that change things now and in the future?
Did Thibs want Ef and now can’t make it work? That because he loves Grimes or has failed? Grimes was not suppose to be this good this fast. That on Thibs too? LOL
MitchRob? He beasts and frustrated by his lack of plays called for him? Is that legit to winning?
What if he is let free is there pain to endure? It helps the tank?We can do this all day long. If Thibs is on the hot seat, what is it for? “Winning now but not?”, “Not developing the kids enough, and since we not winning, its a problem?” “X’s and O’s are not modern for this roster”?
More questions than answers.
Just stop with the "Spreading the minutes" BS. Consolidate this roster into who you plan on playing and on who will create the most effective secondary in the league.
Yes, we need a superstar. In the mean time, put hustle players on the floor. No more, enni, menni, miney, moe player rotations.
Enough of that nonsense.
Nalod wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:Father time has finally caught up with Thibs' old ways. Prioritizing rim protection and gambling on leaving the 3 pt shot open is a recipe for disaster in today's NBA. I hope the FO realizes this and finally let thibs go. John Macri said in the event thibs gets fired and then he is replaced by Johnny Bryant it will be foolish for fans to assume that things will instantly bemuch better. Implementing a new scheme mid season will just ba a tall order. If thibs gets canned can that be a signal of a full on tank for Victor? Can thys also make a firesale for the veterans? Can they also trade 1 or 2 of the centers? This roster was poorly formed with Thibs in mind if ge is gone the FO should try to fix the constuction of the roster.Some good concepts there. If Thibs is made gone Bryant should then should spread the minutes around more even if it means losing. Obi either makes the grade or he too will not be part of the future.
Is there a path were Randle does less?
Is RJ not being utilized properly? Does front office frustrated that he is not off to a good start? Is a valid? “Whose to blame”?
Does Bryant and Thibs not on the same page? Thibs trying to win now too much? If so, whats Bryant’s job security if he lays it back? What if Thibs was told “its ok to not win now, please think longer term”? Thibs or Bryant, or Udoka, or whom ever, how does that change things now and in the future?
Did Thibs want Ef and now can’t make it work? That because he loves Grimes or has failed? Grimes was not suppose to be this good this fast. That on Thibs too? LOL
MitchRob? He beasts and frustrated by his lack of plays called for him? Is that legit to winning?
What if he is let free is there pain to endure? It helps the tank?We can do this all day long. If Thibs is on the hot seat, what is it for? “Winning now but not?”, “Not developing the kids enough, and since we not winning, its a problem?” “X’s and O’s are not modern for this roster”?
More questions than answers.
We don’t know what Bryant will do, though it’s not the worst idea to give him the head coaching job. He a product of a really interesting coaching tree of both Snyder and Thibs. I would like to see I what his approach is, since his education was pretty pretty balanced with teachers for both offense, defense, and player development.
His own expertise is player development to which is exactly what this team needs. The youth are regressing again and that is the final flag for me. Thibs needs to go.
End of the day, the players have to defend coach while he is still coach, but his tech last night cursing out a ref when he was wrong is just symptomatic of his bad judgment. The game has left him behind. He eeked out wins in 2020 in a Covid shortened season with a healthy young squad that had unlimited desire to work hard. His taskmaster approach took undermanned teams off guard. He had some great basketball minds next to him, some fantastic player coaches. Woodson and Payne are gone now.
I like the idea of giving Johnnie Bryant the reins. If not ready yet, you can look at Quin Snyder. But Thibs lost me when he cursed out the ref even though he was wrong basically on mic. Game torpedo’d from there.
toodarkmark wrote:Knicks will be firing the next coach in 3 years. Anyone who thinks the problem with the Knicks is the coach, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.
Can’t speak to the next coach, but this one doesn’t have control of this team, his defense schemes don’t prevent scoring, and his offense approach is lazy.
I’d pack it in on this season, trade what you can for spare parts and give a young coach a chance to pick their squad.
toodarkmark wrote:Knicks will be firing the next coach in 3 years. Anyone who thinks the problem with the Knicks is the coach, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.
Precisely, It doesn't matter who is hired but they absolutely have to have that mentality. NY moves in dog years. You have to act decisively, fast, and be quick to recalibrate course.
This means that you don't sign and resign ho-hum talent. Trade it early, even if it just buys time. You can't and won't win every trade but be bold, you have nothing to lose, and you'll be fired regardless.
Listen to the crazy voices in the room. The draft is a crapshoot, trades are a crapshoot, and the FA market is a fixed game. Take chances. Playing it safe is a long game you aren't invited to.
Ditto for Thibs. If my ass is on the line I march into Rose's office and demand Randall is moved or waived. No F'n compromises. Start there. Tomorrow, get rid of Fournier. And so on until you have a plausible NBA roster.
Look we all know Thibs is gone and Rose will follow as Dolan's XMas gift to Knicks fans.
We need fast turnover specialists to come in. Mike Miller is a proven quantity in NY after Fizdale. Bring back Isiah as GM if you have to - he ain't afraid of dealing. If that scares you, next up.
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Every team says it yet some people here still want to defend Thibs.