Every team says it yet some people here still want to defend Thibs.
Another tech tonight on him cursing out the refs when the refs were right. The win over the Cavs will obscure it, but I really think the guy has got to go.
At least for one game his defensive scheme worked.
EwingsGlass wrote:Another tech tonight on him cursing out the refs when the refs were right. The win over the Cavs will obscure it, but I really think the guy has got to go.
It was a bad T but really? You want the guy fired over that?
Thibs has issues but I’ve lived through duds like Fizdale and Kurt Rambis
Philc1 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Another tech tonight on him cursing out the refs when the refs were right. The win over the Cavs will obscure it, but I really think the guy has got to go.
It was a bad T but really? You want the guy fired over that?
Thibs has issues but I’ve lived through duds like Fizdale and Kurt Rambis
Thibs has some strengths - he did instill a defensive concept/emphasis when he first took over. He offers stability and is consistent.
Thibs has some negatives - he not offensively creative at all, he tends to overuse his fave players, he wears out his welcome eventually
I think the Knicks would be foolish to try to build from mediocrity as believe it's very unlikely a 27 year Durant-type player will want to join the Knicks without depleting us of our roster and picks. And that's what would work with this existing roster (like Nets a few years back). Even if a Booker were to become available via trade - it would surely cost us our future and we'd be left with Randle or RJ as the other player to complement - is that close to enough to contend? I think no so hope we look at ourselves in the mirror and take 2 steps back with the hope we eventually leap 3-4 steps forward via young talent and a different coaching philosophy.
Moving Randle, Fournier, Rose could yield us at least one #1 pick (ex Lakers). Maybe that includes RJ or IQ as well... Hiring a Kenny Atkinson-type coach would allow for us to make decisions on which young players are worth keeping/resigning or trading. So while Thibs served an important purpose (stabilized the Knicks, improved effort) early on - I think we are somewhat deluded with keeping him ("win now" approach) and trying to incrementally progress with the current roster (without making significant moves). I'm not feeling particularly inpatient and would be fine if it takes longer to continue building incrementally - just think we are going about it the wrong way with a roster of young kids and a coach that prioritizes winning every game at all costs.
Regardless of my opinion and recent win - don't think Thibs makes it past the new year...
what's next, we stop drafting players that played at Kentucky?
Thibs is a B+ coach. yeah, I guess it could be better. But who do you propose we replace him with? Udoka? Fizzdale?
Kenny Atkinson would be my first choice (was back before we hired Thibs)
Quinn Synder, Johnny Bryant, Jay Wright, Mike D'Antoni again... at worst - would even rather Jeff Hornacek (not required to use
triangle).
SupremeCommander wrote:what's next, we stop drafting players that played at Kentucky?Thibs is a B+ coach. yeah, I guess it could be better. But who do you propose we replace him with? Udoka? Fizzdale?
Thats the other problem. There arent many options out there. I for one have said Thibs or Randle should be moved. And if theres limited options for a new coach, then Randle gets the short stick, because his replacements are lined up with players already on the team, starting with Obi, Cam, etc.....
Finding someone to replace Randles 20 and 10 will be hard. Finding someone that hustles and plays hard on both ends, will be easier to find..
I am no Thibs apologist, but the Knicks are 2.5 games out of 5th place in the east. As delusional as this may or may not sound, the goal for this team to compete for a playoff/play-in spot. Barring a catastrophic collapse, Thibs will be here for the rest of season and probably next year as well. He's a good coach, but his relationship with the team's president doesn't hurt....
I would let a new FO pick the next coach. Rose and WWW need to go first.
Since Woodson....
Fish was 40-96
Rambis 9-19
Hornacek 60-104
Fizdale 21-83
Miller 9-19
Thibs 89-89 2.1.25 seasons
Its not like we have a star studded cast.
he was COY 1st weird year. It was weird. He was COY.
Last year 37 win regression full schedule.
THis year are 11-13
Some of you are freaking out about mediocrity. Wouldn't one think that the path up has to go thru Mediocrity?
Uptown wrote:I am no Thibs apologist, but the Knicks are 2.5 games out of 5th place in the east. As delusional as this may or may not sound, the goal for this team to compete for a playoff/play-in spot. Barring a catastrophic collapse, Thibs will be here for the rest of season and probably next year as well. He's a good coach, but his relationship with the team's president doesn't hurt....
exactly... no need to be an apologist. Thibs is a B+ coach. The guys play hard. We have one consistent scorer in the whole rotation. Our best players are Brunson, Randle and Barret. They are surrounded with a bunch of guys who are very young.
It's gonna be painful to watch sometimes. That's how young players grow. I mean we are Brunson/Randle/RJ every night and hope the kids help. The roster isnt shit but it clearly lacks difference making talent and I think our path to acquire that is as promising as its been for a couple decades.
...As for the bold that's a positive. It's the closest we have been to having a HC and FO on the same page. They HAVE to be.
Realistically we are a bad 3 weeks from joining the bottom dwellers. We saw that last year and the only reason I can say we should trend up is we are young and cant shoot any worse. Its clear they are pretty committed and believe in Grimes. I mean great. Look at Anfernee Simmons. The guy's amazing. Portland just had to wait a few years you know... while he went from being a good college player to a good NBA player 
Would anyone be surprised if some of these guys turned positive corners and elevated the team? There's a lot of options... this is time to be patient.
Nalod wrote:Since Woodson....Fish was 40-96
Rambis 9-19
Hornacek 60-104
Fizdale 21-83
Miller 9-19
Thibs 89-89 2.1.25 seasons
Its not like we have a star studded cast.
he was COY 1st weird year. It was weird. He was COY.
Last year 37 win regression full schedule.
THis year are 11-13
Some of you are freaking out about mediocrity. Wouldn't one think that the path up has to go thru Mediocrity?
this is good work... one WOULD think that if they have ever seen a young team go through growing pains and evolve into something good. Knick fans have never seen that and can't grasp it. Mediocrity sucks when you have no picks, your capped out and your best players are on the wrong side of 30. Mediocrity does NOT suck when 80% of the rotation is 24 or younger. That is how you build
Nalod wrote:Since Woodson....Fish was 40-96
Rambis 9-19
Hornacek 60-104
Fizdale 21-83
Miller 9-19
Thibs 89-89 2.1.25 seasons
Its not like we have a star studded cast.
he was COY 1st weird year. It was weird. He was COY.
Last year 37 win regression full schedule.
THis year are 11-13
Some of you are freaking out about mediocrity. Wouldn't one think that the path up has to go thru Mediocrity?
The worst possible position to be is mediocre. You either bottom out and get young talent or you are good enough to be better than mediocre and end up in the playoff hunt. We have been mediocre for so long we have like the 2nd or 3rd worst record over the last 20 years. All those teams people laugh at were so bad they got young talent and eventually won more than us. Then there is us picking in the middle to back end of the lotto 95% of the time. We have to wish players like Curry and Ivy drop to us instead of being in the spot where we can just draft them. If you guys like being mediocre so much you must be loving the Knicks these last two seasons.
Nalod wrote:Since Woodson....Fish was 40-96
Rambis 9-19
Hornacek 60-104
Fizdale 21-83
Miller 9-19
Thibs 89-89 2.1.25 seasons
Its not like we have a star studded cast.
he was COY 1st weird year. It was weird. He was COY.
Last year 37 win regression full schedule.
THis year are 11-13
Some of you are freaking out about mediocrity. Wouldn't one think that the path up has to go thru Mediocrity?
It's not mediocrity - it's subpar performance/development. It's regression. It's adding a talent like Brunson and watching the season careen towards another high 30 win total. It's watching RJ turn into Kevin Knox before our eyes. It's watching our best 3 point shooter and athlete playing a mere 17 minutes a game when the player in front of him plays defense worse than a matador.
It's a question driven from a belief that we can't be this bad, and maybe we are, but then maybe we need a new voice.
Playing McBride was a great move yesterday. But getting Thibs to change his patterns is a bit like pulling teeth.
fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:I am no Thibs apologist, but the Knicks are 2.5 games out of 5th place in the east. As delusional as this may or may not sound, the goal for this team to compete for a playoff/play-in spot. Barring a catastrophic collapse, Thibs will be here for the rest of season and probably next year as well. He's a good coach, but his relationship with the team's president doesn't hurt....
exactly... no need to be an apologist. Thibs is a B+ coach. The guys play hard. We have one consistent scorer in the whole rotation. Our best players are Brunson, Randle and Barret. They are surrounded with a bunch of guys who are very young.It's gonna be painful to watch sometimes. That's how young players grow. I mean we are Brunson/Randle/RJ every night and hope the kids help. The roster isnt shit but it clearly lacks difference making talent and I think our path to acquire that is as promising as its been for a couple decades.
...As for the bold that's a positive. It's the closest we have been to having a HC and FO on the same page. They HAVE to be.
Realistically we are a bad 3 weeks from joining the bottom dwellers. We saw that last year and the only reason I can say we should trend up is we are young and cant shoot any worse. Its clear they are pretty committed and believe in Grimes. I mean great. Look at Anfernee Simmons. The guy's amazing. Portland just had to wait a few years you know... while he went from being a good college player to a good NBA player
Would anyone be surprised if some of these guys turned positive corners and elevated the team? There's a lot of options... this is time to be patient.
Barrett is third youngest player. Two months older than Deuce.
Mitch is 5 months older than Sims.
Obi is a month older than Mitch. he'll be 25 March 4th.
Cam is 5th youngest.
blkexec wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:what's next, we stop drafting players that played at Kentucky?Thibs is a B+ coach. yeah, I guess it could be better. But who do you propose we replace him with? Udoka? Fizzdale?
Thats the other problem. There arent many options out there. I for one have said Thibs or Randle should be moved. And if theres limited options for a new coach, then Randle gets the short stick, because his replacements are lined up with players already on the team, starting with Obi, Cam, etc.....
Finding someone to replace Randles 20 and 10 will be hard. Finding someone that hustles and plays hard on both ends, will be easier to find..
Don't think you need one person to put up 20 & 10. Removing Randle from the equation, ups the usage of Brunson, which is a good thing, and promotes more ball movement which will in-turn give others more touches and opportunities. Not to mention, the player or players that will trade uniforms with Randle.
Uptown wrote:blkexec wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:what's next, we stop drafting players that played at Kentucky?Thibs is a B+ coach. yeah, I guess it could be better. But who do you propose we replace him with? Udoka? Fizzdale?
Thats the other problem. There arent many options out there. I for one have said Thibs or Randle should be moved. And if theres limited options for a new coach, then Randle gets the short stick, because his replacements are lined up with players already on the team, starting with Obi, Cam, etc.....
Finding someone to replace Randles 20 and 10 will be hard. Finding someone that hustles and plays hard on both ends, will be easier to find..
Don't think you need one person to put up 20 & 10. Removing Randle from the equation, ups the usage of Brunson, which is a good thing, and promotes more ball movement which will in-turn give others more touches and opportunities. Not to mention, the player or players that will trade uniforms with Randle.
This is my thought on things also.
fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:I am no Thibs apologist, but the Knicks are 2.5 games out of 5th place in the east. As delusional as this may or may not sound, the goal for this team to compete for a playoff/play-in spot. Barring a catastrophic collapse, Thibs will be here for the rest of season and probably next year as well. He's a good coach, but his relationship with the team's president doesn't hurt....
exactly... no need to be an apologist. Thibs is a B+ coach. The guys play hard. We have one consistent scorer in the whole rotation. Our best players are Brunson, Randle and Barret. They are surrounded with a bunch of guys who are very young.It's gonna be painful to watch sometimes. That's how young players grow. I mean we are Brunson/Randle/RJ every night and hope the kids help. The roster isnt shit but it clearly lacks difference making talent and I think our path to acquire that is as promising as its been for a couple decades.
...As for the bold that's a positive. It's the closest we have been to having a HC and FO on the same page. They HAVE to be.
Realistically we are a bad 3 weeks from joining the bottom dwellers. We saw that last year and the only reason I can say we should trend up is we are young and cant shoot any worse. Its clear they are pretty committed and believe in Grimes. I mean great. Look at Anfernee Simmons. The guy's amazing. Portland just had to wait a few years you know... while he went from being a good college player to a good NBA player
Would anyone be surprised if some of these guys turned positive corners and elevated the team? There's a lot of options... this is time to be patient.
Sometimes I wonder how much on the same page they are when you consider Kemba lasted about a month before he was benched, and Evan, the other '21 summer FA splash signing lasted a year and a few weeks before he was banished to the bench. But, I hear what you are saying though...
jskinny35 wrote:Kenny Atkinson would be my first choice (was back before we hired Thibs)Quinn Synder, Johnny Bryant, Jay Wright, Mike D'Antoni again... at worst - would even rather Jeff Hornacek (not required to use
triangle).
What did Atkinson do as a head coach that would warrant a first choice?
His only head coaching job in Brooklyn... after 2 years of being 20-60 and 28-54, he finally made it to 42-40 and followed the next season with 28-34. And what players outside of Jarrett Allen really took after his time with them? Joe Harris? Dinwiddie? Lavert? Nothing to really write home about?
Across the 4 years Atkinson was head coach of Brooklyn, his teams never really stood out defensively or offensively.
Is he more of a really good assistant coach who focuses on dev of individual players? Cause it doesn't really seem like he put team or players together? I didn't really follow Brooklyn though.
