Knicks · Fire Thibs (page 39)
Every coach, every players makes some mistakes and Thibs has and will continue to make them, but he's doubtlessly one of the best coaches in the game and has been instrumental in saving this franchise from its perpetual doom state.
Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:Nalod wrote:Does teams coached by Thibs over achieve in the regular season?
Or
Underachieve in the playoffs?Chicken or egg?
Glass half full, or half empty?Truth is we give Johnny Bryant a lot of credit for development. But Thibs hired him.
How can you quantify "Needs to do a better job during game situations" when he has raised his win totals over 4 years?
Can't all coach's who don't win 82 games a season also "can do a better job"?If not Thibs, who is your choice that would without a shadow of doubt step in and improve things?
These are all great questions that I don’t have answers for.
Regular season games are great but again, what about the playoffs? The Thibs apologists here never like to hold him accountable and like to blame everything else.
Yes..players get hurt and/or have bad shooting nights. Now what Coach? What’s the new game plan? What adjustments are we making?
Hold Thibs accountable? What the actual fuck is that? It’s not a thing, it’s made up garbage
I was waiting for the Thibs homer to show.
Welcome
Calling you a fool is a your definition of a Thibs homer? lol
VDesai wrote:We've made the playoffs 3/4 years since he's been here. Its been a long time and rare occurence in this generation to have a stretch like this. It only feels like we're getting better and will continue to do so. Enjoy the fact that we have culture and continuity here. He has embraced the modern NBA and has adapted his style to fit within it and be competitive. But what remains, and what will always remain is the Thibs culture of play hard every night, don't beat yourself and never give up anything easily.this is the take. Dude is human. He's gonna make the wrong call at time. He's gonna make the wrong sub. It can happen. Look at the team, the players, the culture, the record, all of it... Thib's is absolutely one of the best in the business and surely has been since being here.
Every coach, every players makes some mistakes and Thibs has and will continue to make them, but he's doubtlessly one of the best coaches in the game and has been instrumental in saving this franchise from its perpetual doom state.
Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:Nalod wrote:Does teams coached by Thibs over achieve in the regular season?
Or
Underachieve in the playoffs?Chicken or egg?
Glass half full, or half empty?Truth is we give Johnny Bryant a lot of credit for development. But Thibs hired him.
How can you quantify "Needs to do a better job during game situations" when he has raised his win totals over 4 years?
Can't all coach's who don't win 82 games a season also "can do a better job"?If not Thibs, who is your choice that would without a shadow of doubt step in and improve things?
These are all great questions that I don’t have answers for.
Regular season games are great but again, what about the playoffs? The Thibs apologists here never like to hold him accountable and like to blame everything else.
Yes..players get hurt and/or have bad shooting nights. Now what Coach? What’s the new game plan? What adjustments are we making?
Hold Thibs accountable? What the actual fuck is that? It’s not a thing, it’s made up garbage
I was waiting for the Thibs homer to show.
Welcome
...and not anti-thibs. I just don't hold him in the same high regards as some on this board.
There is a "UK Board Position?"
BTW, "Hold accountable"?
Does he go into his pressors an blame others of his teams failure to execute?
In the "STFU" randle season, did Thibs not say "I need to coach him better"?
With Thibs I see self accountability.
Also, your in a place called "Ultimate knicks". Homerism is apparent. Objectivity is not wide spread.
Bad games are blamed on refs, league conspiracy, Silver, Haters and rarely is the opponent given credit. W
Pushing back is futile at times unless you bring facts. Nobody is saying Thibs is a god or won't coach a bad game.
Can barely dominate Gleaguers.
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martin wrote:Elf is 30 now. He was the Knicks starting guard in the 41-31 bubble season.McBride was a monster when he played there. Just smoked guys 24/8/5 in a 8 games I thinkCan barely dominate Gleaguers.
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Maybe he wants to get into coaching as well and he in that "leadership role".
YOu know, "leading by example"?
Or maybe he flaunting his money he made and being a selfish ball hog.
Not like Alonzo Trier in the Gleague trying.
Nalod wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:Nalod wrote:Does teams coached by Thibs over achieve in the regular season?
Or
Underachieve in the playoffs?Chicken or egg?
Glass half full, or half empty?Truth is we give Johnny Bryant a lot of credit for development. But Thibs hired him.
How can you quantify "Needs to do a better job during game situations" when he has raised his win totals over 4 years?
Can't all coach's who don't win 82 games a season also "can do a better job"?If not Thibs, who is your choice that would without a shadow of doubt step in and improve things?
These are all great questions that I don’t have answers for.
Regular season games are great but again, what about the playoffs? The Thibs apologists here never like to hold him accountable and like to blame everything else.
Yes..players get hurt and/or have bad shooting nights. Now what Coach? What’s the new game plan? What adjustments are we making?
Hold Thibs accountable? What the actual fuck is that? It’s not a thing, it’s made up garbage
I was waiting for the Thibs homer to show.
Welcome
...and not anti-thibs. I just don't hold him in the same high regards as some on this board.
There is a "UK Board Position?"
BTW, "Hold accountable"?
Does he go into his pressors an blame others of his teams failure to execute?
In the "STFU" randle season, did Thibs not say "I need to coach him better"?With Thibs I see self accountability.
Also, your in a place called "Ultimate knicks". Homerism is apparent. Objectivity is not wide spread.
Bad games are blamed on refs, league conspiracy, Silver, Haters and rarely is the opponent given credit. W
Pushing back is futile at times unless you bring facts.NobodyNalod is not saying Thibs is a god or won't coach a bad game.
I’m just helping you out. Because some do see Thibs as a god or won’t coach a bad game. It’s time we talk about how we feel.
I see nothing wrong if fans want to hold Thibs accountable. That’s what fans of a team do. Holding accountable = Pointing blame. And regardless of a win or loss, we can always run down the list of who to blame from Léon Ross to the water boy.
This FIRE THIBS thread is lasting longer than I thought.
In Thibs we trust.
Leon Rose for president over Biden and Trump.
Please retire JBs jersey. He needs to be a Knick 4 life.
My Friday morning “Tell em how you feel” post.
Knicks over sixers in 6. If it goes 7, Embiid will borrow Lebrons human growth hormones (at halftime) and single handedly dominate the 4th quarter.
fishmike wrote:martin wrote:Elf is 30 now. He was the Knicks starting guard in the 41-31 bubble season.McBride was a monster when he played there. Just smoked guys 24/8/5 in a 8 games I thinkCan barely dominate Gleaguers.
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Looks like his current a typical stat line as an NBA STARTER. Time to put some respect on DEUCE name. 
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Sambakick wrote:That is all.
Extended.
That is all.
And well deserved.
God bless Tom Thibs
EwingsGlass wrote:Listen, if it’s the players, we’d be saying things like, “man, they aren’t that good but they do put in a lot of effort and the are at least well coached. They just don’t have the ability to compete with [______].” Or “man, that was a great looking play, the players just failed to finish”. Or, “wow, the defense did everything they could to stop that play, you just can’t stop Giannis”What we are saying are things like “man, I can believe they keep missing their rotations” and “I can’t believe he took that many shots without hitting” and “ I can’t believe how good [___] is playing but he doesn’t seem to get enough minutes].” Or “he pulled him while he was hot?” Or “Is anyone going close out on him”
If we can’t tell if it’s the players or the coach, it’s the coach. Utah traded every star they had and Snyder’s team executed on offense with clean, crisp plays. Our offense is dribble until you get stuck and then look for a pass or force a shot.
I don’t see us being more than a borderline team. In a year where we have draft picks and a deep draft, might as well switch the coach to a more modern style coach that realizes that coaching (and not just shot selection) has an impact on eFG. His defense style seems to still be protecting against the 18 foot jumper. You can give that away all day if you are taking the right shots and executing on solid plays.
You aren’t beating a coach like Budenholzer with this coach or personnel. Go get your Wems or Scoot and find a Bud.
As for the FO, biggest question mark for me is the Trevor Keels pick. Only place that makes sense is where someone saw his age and fitness and said, he is innately strong and talented, I can fix his flaws and make a solid player. Not sure I believe, but man, besides coming from Duke I saw no indications this guy belongs in the NBA.
This was me. They were really hard to watch at this point. Team was hovering at a game under .500 and just looked lost. Come December, the ball started moving and they rattled off an 8 game winning streak that shut us up for the most part.
Best thing I heard recently was on the DeathLineup video where they said Thibs has been studying the GSW offense. That is all I need to hear. Let's get a chip on this extension.
blkexec wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Very little offensive plays. Seems like less than 10 per game. It's all ISO, all the time. I have seen one PnR per game at most. When our ISOs are not effective we cannot generate points. He is the best coach we have had in a while tho, still. Not sure if it's possible to get someone better. He does have his warts thoBut the FO knew defensive COY had very little offensive plays. Heck I knew that b4 we hired him. Thibs allows his players to dictate the offense. Not a lot of structure on that end. But what’s more disturbing is the defense, which supposed to be his specialty. 🤔
As I get the Fire Thibs thread warmed up in case we start the season slow. I think my comment 2 years ago can be repeated this year. I believe this is still true, which is why JB leading an offensive system of scorers and 2 way wings. Something we’ve calling for and finally coach got his wish in 2 years. A team built around his strengths.
Lots of pressure Thibs………Most in his career starting the season!
blkexec wrote:blkexec wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Very little offensive plays. Seems like less than 10 per game. It's all ISO, all the time. I have seen one PnR per game at most. When our ISOs are not effective we cannot generate points. He is the best coach we have had in a while tho, still. Not sure if it's possible to get someone better. He does have his warts thoBut the FO knew defensive COY had very little offensive plays. Heck I knew that b4 we hired him. Thibs allows his players to dictate the offense. Not a lot of structure on that end. But what’s more disturbing is the defense, which supposed to be his specialty. 🤔
As I get the Fire Thibs thread warmed up in case we start the season slow. I think my comment 2 years ago can be repeated this year. I believe this is still true, which is why JB leading an offensive system of scorers and 2 way wings. Something we’ve calling for and finally coach got his wish in 2 years. A team built around his strengths.
Lots of pressure Thibs………Most in his career starting the season!
I have a different perspective on this, and maybe it aligns with what you are saying, I can't tell.
IMHO the Knicks FO has been very good since they have arrived. No FO is without mistakes, but overall, top notch. I have that same opinion about the coaching staff too. Both from a player development standpoint as well as the progression on the in-game and win/loss stuff.
Any coach and staff can - give or take - only have a ceiling and floor regarding wins, losses, and player development that correlates to the players and their floor and ceiling talent, as well as what the staff does to organize and develop it. All coaching staffs are also very dependent on what the FO gives them (the talent level of the players and how they fit on the court) and the expectations they set for the coaching staff: tank, develop, win, get into playoffs, do well in playoffs, compete for championship, etc. If you are given crappy defensive players and really, really good offensive players... a decent coach will emphasis the strengths and do the best to develop players to minimize their weaknesses and then organize team goals accordingly; maybe there is more emphasis on one of defense or offense or both, depending on the maturity of the team.
Judging a coach on wins/losses when they are handed young players and mix-matched cohesiveness is not useful IMO, and then it goes from there. Once those things mature, you can get a better sense of how the FO as well as the coaching staff are doing.
Both have been top notch for the Knicks IMHO and it seems like, from the outside, everything is very very well organized, planned, and executed, from top to bottom.
blkexec wrote:blkexec wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Very little offensive plays. Seems like less than 10 per game. It's all ISO, all the time. I have seen one PnR per game at most. When our ISOs are not effective we cannot generate points. He is the best coach we have had in a while tho, still. Not sure if it's possible to get someone better. He does have his warts thoBut the FO knew defensive COY had very little offensive plays. Heck I knew that b4 we hired him. Thibs allows his players to dictate the offense. Not a lot of structure on that end. But what’s more disturbing is the defense, which supposed to be his specialty. 🤔
As I get the Fire Thibs thread warmed up in case we start the season slow. I think my comment 2 years ago can be repeated this year. I believe this is still true, which is why JB leading an offensive system of scorers and 2 way wings. Something we’ve calling for and finally coach got his wish in 2 years. A team built around his strengths.
Lots of pressure Thibs………Most in his career starting the season!
Fire Blkexec
Panos wrote:blkexec wrote:blkexec wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Very little offensive plays. Seems like less than 10 per game. It's all ISO, all the time. I have seen one PnR per game at most. When our ISOs are not effective we cannot generate points. He is the best coach we have had in a while tho, still. Not sure if it's possible to get someone better. He does have his warts thoBut the FO knew defensive COY had very little offensive plays. Heck I knew that b4 we hired him. Thibs allows his players to dictate the offense. Not a lot of structure on that end. But what’s more disturbing is the defense, which supposed to be his specialty. 🤔
As I get the Fire Thibs thread warmed up in case we start the season slow. I think my comment 2 years ago can be repeated this year. I believe this is still true, which is why JB leading an offensive system of scorers and 2 way wings. Something we’ve calling for and finally coach got his wish in 2 years. A team built around his strengths.
Lots of pressure Thibs………Most in his career starting the season!
Fire Blkexec
Trade Randle!
martin wrote:blkexec wrote:blkexec wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Very little offensive plays. Seems like less than 10 per game. It's all ISO, all the time. I have seen one PnR per game at most. When our ISOs are not effective we cannot generate points. He is the best coach we have had in a while tho, still. Not sure if it's possible to get someone better. He does have his warts thoBut the FO knew defensive COY had very little offensive plays. Heck I knew that b4 we hired him. Thibs allows his players to dictate the offense. Not a lot of structure on that end. But what’s more disturbing is the defense, which supposed to be his specialty. 🤔
As I get the Fire Thibs thread warmed up in case we start the season slow. I think my comment 2 years ago can be repeated this year. I believe this is still true, which is why JB leading an offensive system of scorers and 2 way wings. Something we’ve calling for and finally coach got his wish in 2 years. A team built around his strengths.
Lots of pressure Thibs………Most in his career starting the season!
I have a different perspective on this, and maybe it aligns with what you are saying, I can't tell.
IMHO the Knicks FO has been very good since they have arrived. No FO is without mistakes, but overall, top notch. I have that same opinion about the coaching staff too. Both from a player development standpoint as well as the progression on the in-game and win/loss stuff.
Any coach and staff can - give or take - only have a ceiling and floor regarding wins, losses, and player development that correlates to the players and their floor and ceiling talent, as well as what the staff does to organize and develop it. All coaching staffs are also very dependent on what the FO gives them (the talent level of the players and how they fit on the court) and the expectations they set for the coaching staff: tank, develop, win, get into playoffs, do well in playoffs, compete for championship, etc. If you are given crappy defensive players and really, really good offensive players... a decent coach will emphasis the strengths and do the best to develop players to minimize their weaknesses and then organize team goals accordingly; maybe there is more emphasis on one of defense or offense or both, depending on the maturity of the team.
Judging a coach on wins/losses when they are handed young players and mix-matched cohesiveness is not useful IMO, and then it goes from there. Once those things mature, you can get a better sense of how the FO as well as the coaching staff are doing.
Both have been top notch for the Knicks IMHO and it seems like, from the outside, everything is very very well organized, planned, and executed, from top to bottom.
I agree with most of everything you said. I was just shocked that I wasn’t as hard on Thibs as I thought. And fast forward to now, we have a roster built for Thibs to succeed.
There will be your “play the yoots” chats. Kolek is solid and our young big.
I see this thread as the reverse jinx. Thibs was evolving and roster building synergy. So right now we really don’t have too many weakeness I’m worried about. Even his defense at center. Kat does enough surrounded by the best wingstop in the city.
blkexec wrote:martin wrote:blkexec wrote:blkexec wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Very little offensive plays. Seems like less than 10 per game. It's all ISO, all the time. I have seen one PnR per game at most. When our ISOs are not effective we cannot generate points. He is the best coach we have had in a while tho, still. Not sure if it's possible to get someone better. He does have his warts thoBut the FO knew defensive COY had very little offensive plays. Heck I knew that b4 we hired him. Thibs allows his players to dictate the offense. Not a lot of structure on that end. But what’s more disturbing is the defense, which supposed to be his specialty. 🤔
As I get the Fire Thibs thread warmed up in case we start the season slow. I think my comment 2 years ago can be repeated this year. I believe this is still true, which is why JB leading an offensive system of scorers and 2 way wings. Something we’ve calling for and finally coach got his wish in 2 years. A team built around his strengths.
Lots of pressure Thibs………Most in his career starting the season!
I have a different perspective on this, and maybe it aligns with what you are saying, I can't tell.
IMHO the Knicks FO has been very good since they have arrived. No FO is without mistakes, but overall, top notch. I have that same opinion about the coaching staff too. Both from a player development standpoint as well as the progression on the in-game and win/loss stuff.
Any coach and staff can - give or take - only have a ceiling and floor regarding wins, losses, and player development that correlates to the players and their floor and ceiling talent, as well as what the staff does to organize and develop it. All coaching staffs are also very dependent on what the FO gives them (the talent level of the players and how they fit on the court) and the expectations they set for the coaching staff: tank, develop, win, get into playoffs, do well in playoffs, compete for championship, etc. If you are given crappy defensive players and really, really good offensive players... a decent coach will emphasis the strengths and do the best to develop players to minimize their weaknesses and then organize team goals accordingly; maybe there is more emphasis on one of defense or offense or both, depending on the maturity of the team.
Judging a coach on wins/losses when they are handed young players and mix-matched cohesiveness is not useful IMO, and then it goes from there. Once those things mature, you can get a better sense of how the FO as well as the coaching staff are doing.
Both have been top notch for the Knicks IMHO and it seems like, from the outside, everything is very very well organized, planned, and executed, from top to bottom.
I agree with most of everything you said. I was just shocked that I wasn’t as hard on Thibs as I thought. And fast forward to now, we have a roster built for Thibs to succeed.
There will be your “play the yoots” chats. Kolek is solid and our young big.
I see this thread as the reverse jinx. Thibs was evolving and roster building synergy. So right now we really don’t have too many weakeness I’m worried about. Even his defense at center. Kat does enough surrounded by the best wingstop in the city.
How about fan’s understanding of what FO and Thibs were doing has evolved? That seems more accurate.
Along the way knicks GM's and coaches were not always in synch as evident by the JVG/Grunfeld years.
The Isiah Era had definition but was bloody awful. Can't say Woodson under Grunwald despite a 54 win season was a "culture". It was a collection of vets with Melo and JR smith. Lasted one year. No development. We know the story. Same for Donnie and MDA. Starphuch after starphuch.
Phil Jax tried bringing in his coach (tried with Kerr!) which was a good idea. Fisher? Good idea, bad execution.
Enter Leon, Wes and Thibs and 5 years in we see there was an effort and its been a progressive growth with a more disciplined approach.
More pressure? Not really. Its always there. NYC is not easy but why and how a team might underperform matters if it happens. Is it injuries? Roster construction/Chemistry issues? Lack of execution? Lockerroom personalities? Some things can be fixed, some can't.