Knicks have had so many coaches so the propensity for fans to expect them to get fired or quit is a natural reaction. Things like "building a culture" or "player development" were words that came out of peoples mouth but its something we had not experienced since Eddie Donovan roamed the halls. Many Starphuchs along the way. The Riley Era was 4 years. many pieces were in place and Riley adapted his style which was "showtime" to perhaps best use what he had. What defined his reign most was using Starks and Mason as he did. That was a bit of development but not drafted type assets.
Along the way knicks GM's and coaches were not always in synch as evident by the JVG/Grunfeld years.
The Isiah Era had definition but was bloody awful. Can't say Woodson under Grunwald despite a 54 win season was a "culture". It was a collection of vets with Melo and JR smith. Lasted one year. No development. We know the story. Same for Donnie and MDA. Starphuch after starphuch.
Phil Jax tried bringing in his coach (tried with Kerr!) which was a good idea. Fisher? Good idea, bad execution.
Enter Leon, Wes and Thibs and 5 years in we see there was an effort and its been a progressive growth with a more disciplined approach.
More pressure? Not really. Its always there. NYC is not easy but why and how a team might underperform matters if it happens. Is it injuries? Roster construction/Chemistry issues? Lack of execution? Lockerroom personalities? Some things can be fixed, some can't.
Nalod wrote:Knicks have had so many coaches so the propensity for fans to expect them to get fired or quit is a natural reaction. Things like "building a culture" or "player development" were words that came out of peoples mouth but its something we had not experienced since Eddie Donovan roamed the halls. Many Starphuchs along the way. The Riley Era was 4 years. many pieces were in place and Riley adapted his style which was "showtime" to perhaps best use what he had. What defined his reign most was using Starks and Mason as he did. That was a bit of development but not drafted type assets.
Along the way knicks GM's and coaches were not always in synch as evident by the JVG/Grunfeld years.
The Isiah Era had definition but was bloody awful. Can't say Woodson under Grunwald despite a 54 win season was a "culture". It was a collection of vets with Melo and JR smith. Lasted one year. No development. We know the story. Same for Donnie and MDA. Starphuch after starphuch.
Phil Jax tried bringing in his coach (tried with Kerr!) which was a good idea. Fisher? Good idea, bad execution.
Enter Leon, Wes and Thibs and 5 years in we see there was an effort and its been a progressive growth with a more disciplined approach. More pressure? Not really. Its always there. NYC is not easy but why and how a team might underperform matters if it happens. Is it injuries? Roster construction/Chemistry issues? Lack of execution? Lockerroom personalities? Some things can be fixed, some can't.
What was funniest to me about the anti Thibs crowd were the ones who screamed for a defense yet hated that we picked a defensive minded coach.
Thibs will have more pressure from the NY media this year though.
Expectations are high!!
ToddTT wrote:Panos wrote:blkexec wrote:blkexec wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Very little offensive plays. Seems like less than 10 per game. It's all ISO, all the time. I have seen one PnR per game at most. When our ISOs are not effective we cannot generate points. He is the best coach we have had in a while tho, still. Not sure if it's possible to get someone better. He does have his warts tho
But the FO knew defensive COY had very little offensive plays. Heck I knew that b4 we hired him. Thibs allows his players to dictate the offense. Not a lot of structure on that end. But what’s more disturbing is the defense, which supposed to be his specialty. 🤔
As I get the Fire Thibs thread warmed up in case we start the season slow. I think my comment 2 years ago can be repeated this year. I believe this is still true, which is why JB leading an offensive system of scorers and 2 way wings. Something we’ve calling for and finally coach got his wish in 2 years. A team built around his strengths.
Lots of pressure Thibs………Most in his career starting the season!
Fire Blkexec
Trade Randle!
good job! They included Donte!
2025 the year Thibs gets a ring
Philc1 wrote:2025 the year Thibs gets a ring
Or ridiculed
There’s always two sides to a coin.
When Mitch comes back, Thibs will have the best Two Way team he ever had with the most roster flexibility every coach dream of. How long will it take the Minutes police to start an up roar. We have a chance to play KAT and MITCH which is interesting. With Kate unselfish passing MITCH would eat.
But I don’t see Thibs changing the starting lineup. Is that good or bad? Seems like there might be a better starting 5 if you mix around a few players. For example: Love Josh hart but to me he’s a 6th man on a legit championship squad, just based on historical championship rosters.
will be interesting how Thibs handles a full roster with money Mitch coming back.
blkexec wrote:Philc1 wrote:2025 the year Thibs gets a ring
Or ridiculed There;s always two sides to a coin.
When Mitch comes back, Thibs will have the best Two Way team he ever had with the most roster flexibility every coach dream of. How long will it take the Minutes police to start an up roar. We have a chance to play KAT and MITCH which is interesting. With Kate unselfish passing MITCH would eat.
But I don;t see Thibs changing the starting lineup. Is that good or bad? Seems like there might be a better starting 5 if you mix around a few players. For example: Love Josh hart but to me he;s a 6th man on a legit championship squad, just based on historical championship rosters.
will be interesting how Thibs handles a full roster with money Mitch coming back.
You referring to his 3 pointer?
Midrange?
Baby hook
Free throws
Layups?
Putback dunks
Panos wrote:blkexec wrote:Philc1 wrote:2025 the year Thibs gets a ring
Or ridiculed There;s always two sides to a coin.
When Mitch comes back, Thibs will have the best Two Way team he ever had with the most roster flexibility every coach dream of. How long will it take the Minutes police to start an up roar. We have a chance to play KAT and MITCH which is interesting. With Kate unselfish passing MITCH would eat.
But I don;t see Thibs changing the starting lineup. Is that good or bad? Seems like there might be a better starting 5 if you mix around a few players. For example: Love Josh hart but to me he;s a 6th man on a legit championship squad, just based on historical championship rosters.
will be interesting how Thibs handles a full roster with money Mitch coming back.
You referring to his 3 pointer?
Midrange?
Baby hook
Free throws
Layups?
Putback dunks
Trade Schrodinger’s Mitch.
blkexec wrote:Philc1 wrote:2025 the year Thibs gets a ring
Or ridiculed
There’s always two sides to a coin.
When Mitch comes back, Thibs will have the best Two Way team he ever had with the most roster flexibility every coach dream of. How long will it take the Minutes police to start an up roar. We have a chance to play KAT and MITCH which is interesting. With Kate unselfish passing MITCH would eat.
But I don’t see Thibs changing the starting lineup. Is that good or bad? Seems like there might be a better starting 5 if you mix around a few players. For example: Love Josh hart but to me he’s a 6th man on a legit championship squad, just based on historical championship rosters.
will be interesting how Thibs handles a full roster with money Mitch coming back.
This roster with a healthy Mitch is arguably better than anything he ever had with the bulls yes.
What would stop this team from moving to conf. finals?
An opponent who is a better team.
Injury
Depth. both ours and opponents.
Our starting 5 is as good as any.
Thibs I doubt would be the issue. If he loses his locker room at some point then perhaps. The five year rule that Larry Brown prescribed to? Team needs a new voice?
This is year three with Jalen and except for Mitch most of the team is still not long term.
Thibs was an overbearing dude in Chicago adn perhaps mine. I think he learned to pull back some.
Philc1 wrote:blkexec wrote:Philc1 wrote:2025 the year Thibs gets a ring
Or ridiculed
There’s always two sides to a coin.
When Mitch comes back, Thibs will have the best Two Way team he ever had with the most roster flexibility every coach dream of. How long will it take the Minutes police to start an up roar. We have a chance to play KAT and MITCH which is interesting. With Kate unselfish passing MITCH would eat.
But I don’t see Thibs changing the starting lineup. Is that good or bad? Seems like there might be a better starting 5 if you mix around a few players. For example: Love Josh hart but to me he’s a 6th man on a legit championship squad, just based on historical championship rosters.
will be interesting how Thibs handles a full roster with money Mitch coming back.
This roster with a healthy Mitch is arguably better than anything he ever had with the bulls yes.
I hope we see a healthy Mitch added to this group. I believe in Thibs to find a way to have Mitch impact the game and generate more wins. I believe Mitch healthy is key to our championship run. Even if used as a trade, Mitch is key.
Question……Are we better not trading at all? If everyone is healthy what are we missing? Serious question.
blkexec wrote:Philc1 wrote:blkexec wrote:Philc1 wrote:2025 the year Thibs gets a ring
Or ridiculed
There’s always two sides to a coin.
When Mitch comes back, Thibs will have the best Two Way team he ever had with the most roster flexibility every coach dream of. How long will it take the Minutes police to start an up roar. We have a chance to play KAT and MITCH which is interesting. With Kate unselfish passing MITCH would eat.
But I don’t see Thibs changing the starting lineup. Is that good or bad? Seems like there might be a better starting 5 if you mix around a few players. For example: Love Josh hart but to me he’s a 6th man on a legit championship squad, just based on historical championship rosters.
will be interesting how Thibs handles a full roster with money Mitch coming back.
This roster with a healthy Mitch is arguably better than anything he ever had with the bulls yes.
I hope we see a healthy Mitch added to this group. I believe in Thibs to find a way to have Mitch impact the game and generate more wins. I believe Mitch healthy is key to our championship run. Even if used as a trade, Mitch is key.
Question……Are we better not trading at all? If everyone is healthy what are we missing? Serious question.
This roster with a healthy Mitch is capable of winning a championship. I know there’s no way Thibs does this but we have to rest Mitch rest of the regular season to guarantee him being on the court in the playoffs. Mitch and KAT together with OG and Kale on the perimeter is a scary defensive lineup
Panos wrote:blkexec wrote:Philc1 wrote:2025 the year Thibs gets a ring
Or ridiculed There;s always two sides to a coin.
When Mitch comes back, Thibs will have the best Two Way team he ever had with the most roster flexibility every coach dream of. How long will it take the Minutes police to start an up roar. We have a chance to play KAT and MITCH which is interesting. With Kate unselfish passing MITCH would eat.
But I don;t see Thibs changing the starting lineup. Is that good or bad? Seems like there might be a better starting 5 if you mix around a few players. For example: Love Josh hart but to me he;s a 6th man on a legit championship squad, just based on historical championship rosters.
will be interesting how Thibs handles a full roster with money Mitch coming back.
You referring to his 3 pointer?
Midrange?
Baby hook
Free throws
Layups?
Putback dunks
Defense and rebounding and the threat of badass dunks that wilt a team. Mitch has value, it’s just whether or not he can get back to conditioning and stay on court.
When guys like OG Hart Deuce Mikal have Mitch behind them, they become ever better defenders, cause they don’t have to over compensate while not having him there.
Philc1 wrote:blkexec wrote:Philc1 wrote:blkexec wrote:Philc1 wrote:2025 the year Thibs gets a ring
Or ridiculed
There’s always two sides to a coin.
When Mitch comes back, Thibs will have the best Two Way team he ever had with the most roster flexibility every coach dream of. How long will it take the Minutes police to start an up roar. We have a chance to play KAT and MITCH which is interesting. With Kate unselfish passing MITCH would eat.
But I don’t see Thibs changing the starting lineup. Is that good or bad? Seems like there might be a better starting 5 if you mix around a few players. For example: Love Josh hart but to me he’s a 6th man on a legit championship squad, just based on historical championship rosters.
will be interesting how Thibs handles a full roster with money Mitch coming back.
This roster with a healthy Mitch is arguably better than anything he ever had with the bulls yes.
I hope we see a healthy Mitch added to this group. I believe in Thibs to find a way to have Mitch impact the game and generate more wins. I believe Mitch healthy is key to our championship run. Even if used as a trade, Mitch is key.
Question……Are we better not trading at all? If everyone is healthy what are we missing? Serious question.
This roster with a healthy Mitch is capable of winning a championship. I know there’s no way Thibs does this but we have to rest Mitch rest of the regular season to guarantee him being on the court in the playoffs. Mitch and KAT together with OG and Kale on the perimeter is a scary defensive lineup
Bring him back slowly, it’s not that hard.
ToddTT wrote:Panos wrote:blkexec wrote:Philc1 wrote:2025 the year Thibs gets a ring
Or ridiculed There;s always two sides to a coin.
When Mitch comes back, Thibs will have the best Two Way team he ever had with the most roster flexibility every coach dream of. How long will it take the Minutes police to start an up roar. We have a chance to play KAT and MITCH which is interesting. With Kate unselfish passing MITCH would eat.
But I don;t see Thibs changing the starting lineup. Is that good or bad? Seems like there might be a better starting 5 if you mix around a few players. For example: Love Josh hart but to me he;s a 6th man on a legit championship squad, just based on historical championship rosters.
will be interesting how Thibs handles a full roster with money Mitch coming back.
You referring to his 3 pointer?
Midrange?
Baby hook
Free throws
Layups?
Putback dunks
Trade Schrodinger’s Mitch.
I think Schrodinger just got traded to the Lakers. 
Mitch is at the crossroads of his financial career. Has to stay healthy and produce. Then stay healthy all next year before he is a free agent.
Not sure its wise to extend him unless it has game played protections which is logical.
I don't have HIPA clearance on his medicals so I can't say what approach they are taking vs previous years and issues.
Thus his trade value is undetermined.
He very well might want to get away from Thibs and see if he can have more offensive touches.
We might keep him thru the end of his contract and let him walk. Thats summer of 2026.
We might regret that but he makes less next year and if he return to form that could be our best value.
Not predicting, just laying out its not neglect to let a player walk.
If Huk is ready, then its potential progress.
It took a little bit of time but Thibs has fixed the defense as expected.
SergioNYK wrote:It took a little bit of time but Thibs has fixed the defense as expected.
I love Thibs as much as anybody. But come on. Thibs can scheme all he wants. If he doesn’t have defenders he doesn’t have defense.
The club's defense has improved lately, but the Knicks are still ranked 19th in defensive efficiency after 21 games. The main value added from Achiuwa's return is his overall versatility and his Defensive Impact. Standing 6-foot-8, Achiuwa is a small-ball center that can also play the four. Thibs roster flexibility playing Achiuwa at the 4 is the key to our defensive turnaround.
#2 offense and holding
#13 defense and climbing
blkexec wrote:SergioNYK wrote:It took a little bit of time but Thibs has fixed the defense as expected.
I love Thibs as much as anybody. But come on. Thibs can scheme all he wants. If he doesn’t have defenders he doesn’t have defense.
The club's defense has improved lately, but the Knicks are still ranked 19th in defensive efficiency after 21 games. The main value added from Achiuwa's return is his overall versatility and his Defensive Impact. Standing 6-foot-8, Achiuwa is a small-ball center that can also play the four. Thibs roster flexibility playing Achiuwa at the 4 is the key to our defensive turnaround.
I would say that guys like him and Mitch are absolutely a part of what the Knicks do and instrumental in getting the team there, but there are plenty of really additional and simple reasons why the defense is getting better IMHO. Like Mikal finally has found his groove. Like Deuce is fully back in rotation after the knee thing. Like the guys just needed time to sort things out on defense since the KAT trade as training camp opened. Knicks have played some less than stellar teams recently as well.
Precious first game back was Dec 5, he played 12 minutes and then was a full ~20ppg after that. Only played last 10 games, so that's perfect.
Since Dec 1, they are 3rd (~10-12 games): https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced...
And since 19 Nov, they are 9th (last ~15-18 games for most teams): https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced...
Before the 19 Nov, they were really shitty at defense: https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced...
I think we all waiting on Mitch to see his impact. Hopefully it doesn't interfere with the Offense to much.
Interesting info, small data size:
