Knicks · Fire Thibs (page 4)
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:blkexec wrote:I think Thibs 9 man rotation is a HUGE shift. And there's advantages vs a 10 man rotation. When it's 10, I believe (based on the past) Thibs is more rigid. Starting 5 bring in 5.When it's a 9 man rotation, Thibs appears to mix things up. I call it organized confusion.
RJ with the second unit
JB and IQ together
Reddish playing with the second unit
Obi and Randle playing togetherWhat I like and don't like about Thibs is his stubbornness. This applies to out losing streaks or in game flexibility.
But when things are going well, his stubbornness becomes an advantage. I can see him basically riding this same rotation and substitution pattern for a while now. Trying to see how many wins we can squeeze out during this west coast trip, before making any significant changes.
It is strange to suddenly see a lot of people start to suggest RJ may be better off bench. I agree.
Not really, RJ isnt playing well enough to start. Not like he was never good enough. I hope one way or another Barrett decides to work on his finishing skills. The biggest surprise for me is that unlike other parts of his game, I see no evidence that RJ has been working on becoming a better finisher.
RJ grew up playing basketball, like since he was able to hold a ball. He has had access to coaching, training, NBA level talent as family, every exposure an athlete would need at every point of his life. Literally the best of the best. He is even considered a "hard worker".
He just don't got it.
It confounds me that your base, underlying assumptions is that he hasn't worked on finishing. That's called shooting, just up close. He is a poor shooter.
When does he start to practice not putting his head down and just barging into 3 defenders who are in front of him when on a 1 on 3 break? When does he practice not telegraphing his passes to opponents?
RJ is a phenominal physical specimen but he has no idea how to use it and his basketball IQ/sensibilities are way below average, ESPECIALLY considering his background.
RJ made a name for himself in college because of his "bully ball" style of play. His shooting was suspect. But one thing RJ could do very well was get to the rim. As well as share the rock.
Early in his career RJ played SG. Had success playing "bully ball" against shooting guards. Wasnt as easy as in college, but Barrett showed an ability to bully his way to the rim, get buckets. With room for improvement.
What changed were two things. RJ being scouted by other teams, and Thibs moving RJ to the 3, to play against bigger (still speedy) defenders. Guess what happened? RJ couldnt bully his way to the rim like he did at SG. Not a big surprise for a player who doesnt have elite burst.
Barring a trade, you can do two things.
You can move RJ back to the 2. That seems unlikely with Cam and Quick playing so well. The second thing RJ can do is to use the glass to counter a larger defender. I see no evidence of RJ taking that approach. He has trouble banking it in without hitting the rim on the way down, when no one is guarding him. Seen RJ go nothing but net plenty of times. Shows that RJ put in the work. I dont see RJ trying to go anywhere but the same spot on the glass amd hoping he has a better result. Not using his shooting hand to alter the trajectory. Its clear all those fancy teachers didnt work on that.
They lost your luggage in Canada, thats it Martin! 
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:blkexec wrote:I think Thibs 9 man rotation is a HUGE shift. And there's advantages vs a 10 man rotation. When it's 10, I believe (based on the past) Thibs is more rigid. Starting 5 bring in 5.When it's a 9 man rotation, Thibs appears to mix things up. I call it organized confusion.
RJ with the second unit
JB and IQ together
Reddish playing with the second unit
Obi and Randle playing togetherWhat I like and don't like about Thibs is his stubbornness. This applies to out losing streaks or in game flexibility.
But when things are going well, his stubbornness becomes an advantage. I can see him basically riding this same rotation and substitution pattern for a while now. Trying to see how many wins we can squeeze out during this west coast trip, before making any significant changes.
It is strange to suddenly see a lot of people start to suggest RJ may be better off bench. I agree.
Not really, RJ isnt playing well enough to start. Not like he was never good enough. I hope one way or another Barrett decides to work on his finishing skills. The biggest surprise for me is that unlike other parts of his game, I see no evidence that RJ has been working on becoming a better finisher.
RJ grew up playing basketball, like since he was able to hold a ball. He has had access to coaching, training, NBA level talent as family, every exposure an athlete would need at every point of his life. Literally the best of the best. He is even considered a "hard worker".
He just don't got it.
It confounds me that your base, underlying assumptions is that he hasn't worked on finishing. That's called shooting, just up close. He is a poor shooter.
When does he start to practice not putting his head down and just barging into 3 defenders who are in front of him when on a 1 on 3 break? When does he practice not telegraphing his passes to opponents?
RJ is a phenominal physical specimen but he has no idea how to use it and his basketball IQ/sensibilities are way below average, ESPECIALLY considering his background.
RJ made a name for himself in college because of his "bully ball" style of play. His shooting was suspect. But one thing RJ could do very well was get to the rim. As well as share the rock.
Early in his career RJ played SG. Had success playing "bully ball" against shooting guards. Wasnt as easy as in college, but Barrett showed an ability to bully his way to the rim, get buckets. With room for improvement.
What changed were two things. RJ being scouted by other teams, and Thibs moving RJ to the 3, to play against bigger (still speedy) defenders. Guess what happened? RJ couldnt bully his way to the rim like he did at SG. Not a big surprise for a player who doesnt have elite burst.
Barring a trade, you can do two things.
You can move RJ back to the 2. That seems unlikely with Cam and Quick playing so well. The second thing RJ can do is to use the glass to counter a larger defender. I see no evidence of RJ taking that approach. He has trouble banking it in without hitting the rim on the way down, when no one is guarding him. Seen RJ go nothing but net plenty of times. Shows that RJ put in the work. I dont see RJ trying to go anywhere but the same spot on the glass amd hoping he has a better result. Not using his shooting hand to alter the trajectory. Its clear all those fancy teachers didnt work on that.
They lost your luggage in Canada, thats it Martin!
I feel like this is the crux of it. RJ falls under the category of athlete who physically matured faster and filled out to a pro level man-child as a teen and feasted on skinny high school and college kids who are, relatively speaking, mostly underdeveloped.
It was all bully ball to the detriment of his fuller develop process. It's the same with guys like Cam who are ungodly blessed with physical attributes and they rely on those physical separators exclusively instead of widening his skillset and really working past your only strengths.
After that it's about your own individual determination to get better to play better and RJ don't got that, or it's just a talent limit.
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:blkexec wrote:I think Thibs 9 man rotation is a HUGE shift. And there's advantages vs a 10 man rotation. When it's 10, I believe (based on the past) Thibs is more rigid. Starting 5 bring in 5.When it's a 9 man rotation, Thibs appears to mix things up. I call it organized confusion.
RJ with the second unit
JB and IQ together
Reddish playing with the second unit
Obi and Randle playing togetherWhat I like and don't like about Thibs is his stubbornness. This applies to out losing streaks or in game flexibility.
But when things are going well, his stubbornness becomes an advantage. I can see him basically riding this same rotation and substitution pattern for a while now. Trying to see how many wins we can squeeze out during this west coast trip, before making any significant changes.
It is strange to suddenly see a lot of people start to suggest RJ may be better off bench. I agree.
Not really, RJ isnt playing well enough to start. Not like he was never good enough. I hope one way or another Barrett decides to work on his finishing skills. The biggest surprise for me is that unlike other parts of his game, I see no evidence that RJ has been working on becoming a better finisher.
RJ grew up playing basketball, like since he was able to hold a ball. He has had access to coaching, training, NBA level talent as family, every exposure an athlete would need at every point of his life. Literally the best of the best. He is even considered a "hard worker".
He just don't got it.
It confounds me that your base, underlying assumptions is that he hasn't worked on finishing. That's called shooting, just up close. He is a poor shooter.
When does he start to practice not putting his head down and just barging into 3 defenders who are in front of him when on a 1 on 3 break? When does he practice not telegraphing his passes to opponents?
RJ is a phenominal physical specimen but he has no idea how to use it and his basketball IQ/sensibilities are way below average, ESPECIALLY considering his background.
RJ made a name for himself in college because of his "bully ball" style of play. His shooting was suspect. But one thing RJ could do very well was get to the rim. As well as share the rock.
Early in his career RJ played SG. Had success playing "bully ball" against shooting guards. Wasnt as easy as in college, but Barrett showed an ability to bully his way to the rim, get buckets. With room for improvement.
What changed were two things. RJ being scouted by other teams, and Thibs moving RJ to the 3, to play against bigger (still speedy) defenders. Guess what happened? RJ couldnt bully his way to the rim like he did at SG. Not a big surprise for a player who doesnt have elite burst.
Barring a trade, you can do two things.
You can move RJ back to the 2. That seems unlikely with Cam and Quick playing so well. The second thing RJ can do is to use the glass to counter a larger defender. I see no evidence of RJ taking that approach. He has trouble banking it in without hitting the rim on the way down, when no one is guarding him. Seen RJ go nothing but net plenty of times. Shows that RJ put in the work. I dont see RJ trying to go anywhere but the same spot on the glass amd hoping he has a better result. Not using his shooting hand to alter the trajectory. Its clear all those fancy teachers didnt work on that.
They lost your luggage in Canada, thats it Martin!
I feel like this is the crux of it. RJ falls under the category of athlete who physically matured faster and filled out to a pro level man-child as a teen and feasted on skinny high school and college kids who are, relatively speaking, mostly underdeveloped.
It was all bully ball to the detriment of his fuller develop process. It's the same with guys like Cam who are ungodly blessed with physical attributes and they rely on those physical separators exclusively instead of widening his skillset and really working past your only strengths.
After that it's about your own individual determination to get better to play better and RJ don't got that, or it's just a talent limit.
I see your Crux and raise you one..
Thats it, RJ is too much "one trick pony" when he drives to the rim. There is no plan b. Hope RJ takes inventory of his game, and makes the necessary adjustments.
Its well known that players who are getting to the rim, getting buckets. Tend to be more confident in their outside shot than players who keep getting stuffed at the rim. RJ becoming a better finisher could positively impact other parts of his game, so I hope he puts in the work in that dept.
When RJ locks in to a decision early, he doesn't know how to process other stuff. He got blinders on.
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/BenRitholtzNBA/status/1593331570819178496?s=20&t=JR6p_JP6eYmgVD_ytgctOg
Click here to view the Tweet
foosballnick wrote:I think I clicked in the wrong thread. I was looking for the Fire Thibs thread and I must have mistakenly clicked on the Fire RJ thread.
I always wondered how long it takes for a thread to go off topic.
A Fire Thibs thread during the beginning of a season will never age well when your .500 team. We will win some games we shouldn’t and lose some games we should’ve won.
RJ on the other hand has sign a large contract. With large contracts, you become a target by fans and the media. Part is self imposed. The other part is jealously and envy, but that’s a little too deep for this thread.
But with thibs back against the wall, Randle held a team meeting and decided to actually play basketball the way fans been asking him to do. Players love thibs more than some fans. So that was the key for me. I wanted to see if this team would fight for thibs and they answered that question.
Title should say Fire the old Thibs. This new Thibs can stay 
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:blkexec wrote:I think Thibs 9 man rotation is a HUGE shift. And there's advantages vs a 10 man rotation. When it's 10, I believe (based on the past) Thibs is more rigid. Starting 5 bring in 5.When it's a 9 man rotation, Thibs appears to mix things up. I call it organized confusion.
RJ with the second unit
JB and IQ together
Reddish playing with the second unit
Obi and Randle playing togetherWhat I like and don't like about Thibs is his stubbornness. This applies to out losing streaks or in game flexibility.
But when things are going well, his stubbornness becomes an advantage. I can see him basically riding this same rotation and substitution pattern for a while now. Trying to see how many wins we can squeeze out during this west coast trip, before making any significant changes.
It is strange to suddenly see a lot of people start to suggest RJ may be better off bench. I agree.
Not really, RJ isnt playing well enough to start. Not like he was never good enough. I hope one way or another Barrett decides to work on his finishing skills. The biggest surprise for me is that unlike other parts of his game, I see no evidence that RJ has been working on becoming a better finisher.
RJ grew up playing basketball, like since he was able to hold a ball. He has had access to coaching, training, NBA level talent as family, every exposure an athlete would need at every point of his life. Literally the best of the best. He is even considered a "hard worker".
He just don't got it.
It confounds me that your base, underlying assumptions is that he hasn't worked on finishing. That's called shooting, just up close. He is a poor shooter.
When does he start to practice not putting his head down and just barging into 3 defenders who are in front of him when on a 1 on 3 break? When does he practice not telegraphing his passes to opponents?
RJ is a phenominal physical specimen but he has no idea how to use it and his basketball IQ/sensibilities are way below average, ESPECIALLY considering his background.
RJ made a name for himself in college because of his "bully ball" style of play. His shooting was suspect. But one thing RJ could do very well was get to the rim. As well as share the rock.
Early in his career RJ played SG. Had success playing "bully ball" against shooting guards. Wasnt as easy as in college, but Barrett showed an ability to bully his way to the rim, get buckets. With room for improvement.
What changed were two things. RJ being scouted by other teams, and Thibs moving RJ to the 3, to play against bigger (still speedy) defenders. Guess what happened? RJ couldnt bully his way to the rim like he did at SG. Not a big surprise for a player who doesnt have elite burst.
Barring a trade, you can do two things.
You can move RJ back to the 2. That seems unlikely with Cam and Quick playing so well. The second thing RJ can do is to use the glass to counter a larger defender. I see no evidence of RJ taking that approach. He has trouble banking it in without hitting the rim on the way down, when no one is guarding him. Seen RJ go nothing but net plenty of times. Shows that RJ put in the work. I dont see RJ trying to go anywhere but the same spot on the glass amd hoping he has a better result. Not using his shooting hand to alter the trajectory. Its clear all those fancy teachers didnt work on that.
They lost your luggage in Canada, thats it Martin!
I feel like this is the crux of it. RJ falls under the category of athlete who physically matured faster and filled out to a pro level man-child as a teen and feasted on skinny high school and college kids who are, relatively speaking, mostly underdeveloped.
It was all bully ball to the detriment of his fuller develop process. It's the same with guys like Cam who are ungodly blessed with physical attributes and they rely on those physical separators exclusively instead of widening his skillset and really working past your only strengths.
After that it's about your own individual determination to get better to play better and RJ don't got that, or it's just a talent limit.
I was watching the game and thinking that Brunson is like the polar opposite of this - physically, he shouldn't be as good as he is.
blkexec wrote:foosballnick wrote:I think I clicked in the wrong thread. I was looking for the Fire Thibs thread and I must have mistakenly clicked on the Fire RJ thread.I always wondered how long it takes for a thread to go off topic.
A Fire Thibs thread during the beginning of a season will never age well when your .500 team. We will win some games we shouldn’t and lose some games we should’ve won.
RJ on the other hand has sign a large contract. With large contracts, you become a target by fans and the media. Part is self imposed. The other part is jealously and envy, but that’s a little too deep for this thread.
But with thibs back against the wall, Randle held a team meeting and decided to actually play basketball the way fans been asking him to do. Players love thibs more than some fans. So that was the key for me. I wanted to see if this team would fight for thibs and they answered that question.
Title should say Fire the old Thibs. This new Thibs can stay
Every poster in every sports forum I've been in has their own agenda topics to bring to the table and derail threads. "Fire Thibs" was so yesterday now that the Knicks have won 2 in a row against teams that they haven't beaten on the road in years (16 years to be exact against the Nuggets).....move on to the next "why the Knicks have not met expectations" bullet point.