Knicks · Fire Thibs (page 5)

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Philc1 wrote:RJ is here to stay unless we package him for an upgrade like Sabonis. That is all

If he does stay, one wrinkle in his game I'd like to see is RJ going left, switching hands, and finishing with his right.

Its easier than dribbling all the way to the rim with your off hand. And he'll probably get defenders with that move, because he'a been so predictable. Then maybe he can work more on finishing with his right hand.

He does it for a few games than forgets that he has in his package. I'd like to see more midpost RJ when teams go small.

Really? honestly dont remember him doing that. Although I doze off in spots lol.

Here are few examples I could find. I've seen RJ practice countless moves over the summer. They just don't seem to come to him instinctually during game time.

martin wrote:IMHO this is not an outlier type situation, RJ misses a ton of these passes. Basic level stuff.

When RJ locks in to a decision early, he doesn't know how to process other stuff. He got blinders on.

Not sure this is the best example as there are only 3 seconds left on the clock and RJ is covered by 3 guys with no passing lane. Would probably need to see the lead in on this - meaning, could he have passed out earlier?

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Philc1 wrote:RJ is here to stay unless we package him for an upgrade like Sabonis. That is all

If he does stay, one wrinkle in his game I'd like to see is RJ going left, switching hands, and finishing with his right.

Its easier than dribbling all the way to the rim with your off hand. And he'll probably get defenders with that move, because he'a been so predictable. Then maybe he can work more on finishing with his right hand.

He does it for a few games than forgets that he has in his package. I'd like to see more midpost RJ when teams go small.

Really? honestly dont remember him doing that. Although I doze off in spots lol.

Here are few examples I could find. I've seen RJ practice countless moves over the summer. They just don't seem to come to him instinctually during game time.

I see. I'm talking about something kind of different. Those were good improvised moves, spin move by RJ. Spur of the moment situation.

I havent seen him use his left hand as misdirection, as a strategy. Faking an attempt to go left, then when the defender commits, cutting to the right and finishing with his right hand in one motion. Dont know if Im describing it the right way.

Defenders believe RJ cant go right. Like to see him become a bit craftier. To use that against other teams. Cant if he doesnt try it in games.

I see lots of young NBA players who have moves they're afraid to try becuase they're worried about potentially ugly takes to the rim, maybe getting chewed out by the coach.

RJ has been called the "Maple Mamba". Kobe wasnt afraid to fall on his butt trying to take his game to the next level. Believe RJ has hit a point in his career where he has has to take more chances, or he's going to have trouble reaching his goals.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Philc1 wrote:RJ is here to stay unless we package him for an upgrade like Sabonis. That is all

If he does stay, one wrinkle in his game I'd like to see is RJ going left, switching hands, and finishing with his right.

Its easier than dribbling all the way to the rim with your off hand. And he'll probably get defenders with that move, because he'a been so predictable. Then maybe he can work more on finishing with his right hand.

He does it for a few games than forgets that he has in his package. I'd like to see more midpost RJ when teams go small.

Really? honestly dont remember him doing that. Although I doze off in spots lol.

Here are few examples I could find. I've seen RJ practice countless moves over the summer. They just don't seem to come to him instinctually during game time.

I see. I'm talking about something kind of different. Those were good improvised moves, spin move by RJ. Spur of the moment situation.

I havent seen him use his left hand as misdirection, as a strategy. Faking an attempt to go left, then when the defender commits, cutting to the right and finishing with his right hand in one motion. Dont know if Im describing it the right way.

Defenders believe RJ cant go right. Like to see him become a bit craftier. To use that against other teams. Cant if he doesnt try it in games.

I see lots of young NBA players who have moves they're afraid to try becuase they're worried about potentially ugly takes to the rim, maybe getting chewed out by the coach.

RJ has been called the "Maple Mamba". Kobe wasnt afraid to fall on his butt trying to take his game to the next level. Believe RJ has hit a point in his career where he has to take more chances, or he's going to have trouble reaching his goals.

GustavBahler wrote:

Philc1 wrote:RJ is here to stay unless we package him for an upgrade like Sabonis. That is all

If he does stay, one wrinkle in his game I'd like to see is RJ going left, switching hands, and finishing with his right.

Its easier than dribbling all the way to the rim with your off hand. And he'll probably get defenders with that move, because he'a been so predictable. Then maybe he can work more on finishing with his right hand.

He has started finishing with his right hand more. RJ going left is something the entire league has watched extensive tape on and he knows it

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:IMHO this is not an outlier type situation, RJ misses a ton of these passes. Basic level stuff.

When RJ locks in to a decision early, he doesn't know how to process other stuff. He got blinders on.

Not sure this is the best example as there are only 3 seconds left on the clock and RJ is covered by 3 guys with no passing lane. Would probably need to see the lead in on this - meaning, could he have passed out earlier?

Agreed he didn't have any real options besides a bad shot at that point. In context to the clock winding down he had to take that shot.

I just want to get back to the main topic and say “fire thibs”.

Listen, if it’s the players, we’d be saying things like, “man, they aren’t that good but they do put in a lot of effort and the are at least well coached. They just don’t have the ability to compete with [______].” Or “man, that was a great looking play, the players just failed to finish”. Or, “wow, the defense did everything they could to stop that play, you just can’t stop Giannis”

What we are saying are things like “man, I can believe they keep missing their rotations” and “I can’t believe he took that many shots without hitting” and “ I can’t believe how good [___] is playing but he doesn’t seem to get enough minutes].” Or “he pulled him while he was hot?” Or “Is anyone going close out on him”

If we can’t tell if it’s the players or the coach, it’s the coach. Utah traded every star they had and Snyder’s team executed on offense with clean, crisp plays. Our offense is dribble until you get stuck and then look for a pass or force a shot.

I don’t see us being more than a borderline team. In a year where we have draft picks and a deep draft, might as well switch the coach to a more modern style coach that realizes that coaching (and not just shot selection) has an impact on eFG. His defense style seems to still be protecting against the 18 foot jumper. You can give that away all day if you are taking the right shots and executing on solid plays.

You aren’t beating a coach like Budenholzer with this coach or personnel. Go get your Wems or Scoot and find a Bud.

As for the FO, biggest question mark for me is the Trevor Keels pick. Only place that makes sense is where someone saw his age and fitness and said, he is innately strong and talented, I can fix his flaws and make a solid player. Not sure I believe, but man, besides coming from Duke I saw no indications this guy belongs in the NBA.

wargames wrote:I just want to get back to the main topic and say “fire thibs”.

Ok let’s start with (Bad Thibs), why the hell did Thibs give RJ the same mins as Brunson when RJ was sick and clearly struggling. Would’ve been a good time to get Grimes some meaningful mins maybe? Or deuce? But clearly RJ was off from the start of the game. So thibs had plenty of time to evaluate.

Back to (Good Thibs). Are we going to ignore the substitution Thibs made towards the end of the NUGGETS GAME? Substituting Obi for Sims towards the end won the game. If sims was still on the bench, I believe we lose. Remember as soon as Sims came in, instant impact with a TO, rebound and showing off why (to me) sims is the 2nd best guard defender from the center position, next to draymond green.

EwingsGlass wrote:You aren’t beating a coach like Budenholzer with this coach or personnel. Go get your Wems or Scoot and find a Bud.

Not saying that I disagree with many of the points made in your post. Just wanted to point out that it wasn't long ago when Atlanta and Milwaukee fans were saying "You're not going to beat a Coach Spo or Kerr with Budenholzer as your coach." You can't turn chicken crap into chicken soup.

wargames wrote:I just want to get back to the main topic and say “fire thibs”.

We are 8-7 during a tough part of the schedule. Has Thibs been stubborn with the old school stuff like playing RJ 40 minutes when he clearly is sick and struggling? Yeah but the record is what it is and considering the schedule even if we were 3 games below .500 it would be tough to argue firing him

wargames wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:IMHO this is not an outlier type situation, RJ misses a ton of these passes. Basic level stuff.

When RJ locks in to a decision early, he doesn't know how to process other stuff. He got blinders on.

Not sure this is the best example as there are only 3 seconds left on the clock and RJ is covered by 3 guys with no passing lane. Would probably need to see the lead in on this - meaning, could he have passed out earlier?

Agreed he didn't have any real options besides a bad shot at that point. In context to the clock winding down he had to take that shot.

The clip obviously starts at around the 4 or 5 second mark but also cuts off anything before that which may show RJ having even a hint more time.

In the NBA, 4 to 5 seconds is a MASSIVE amount of time to both make a decision and execute it.

RJ fucked up. Winning players make the right plays more often than not. RJ is more on the NOT side.

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:You aren’t beating a coach like Budenholzer with this coach or personnel. Go get your Wems or Scoot and find a Bud.

Not saying that I disagree with many of the points made in your post. Just wanted to point out that it wasn't long ago when Atlanta and Milwaukee fans were saying "You're not going to beat a Coach Spo or Kerr with Budenholzer as your coach." You can't turn chicken crap into chicken soup.

Perhaps the grass is always greener. The only fertilizer is winning.

martin wrote:

wargames wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:IMHO this is not an outlier type situation, RJ misses a ton of these passes. Basic level stuff.

When RJ locks in to a decision early, he doesn't know how to process other stuff. He got blinders on.

Not sure this is the best example as there are only 3 seconds left on the clock and RJ is covered by 3 guys with no passing lane. Would probably need to see the lead in on this - meaning, could he have passed out earlier?

Agreed he didn't have any real options besides a bad shot at that point. In context to the clock winding down he had to take that shot.

The clip obviously starts at around the 4 or 5 second mark but also cuts off anything before that which may show RJ having even a hint more time.

In the NBA, 4 to 5 seconds is a MASSIVE amount of time to both make a decision and execute it.

RJ fucked up. Winning players make the right plays more often than not. RJ is more on the NOT side.

So I happened to catch this clip on stream again.

RJ gets the ball just before half court and along sideline with 4.9 seconds left on clock. He dribbles it along the sideline to cross mid court with just over 4 seconds left on clock with literally 4 defenders around him and IQ on the other side of the court ALL ALONE and waving his hands; IQ is near parallel to RJ, only about 5+ feet behind.

RJ uses all 4 seconds to dribble further down court. With 4 guys all around him. IQ still waving, alone, very sad, almost insecure cause of the lack of attention.

It's like when LeBron was screaming and waving at JR with seconds of a tied playoff game winding down.

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

wargames wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:IMHO this is not an outlier type situation, RJ misses a ton of these passes. Basic level stuff.

When RJ locks in to a decision early, he doesn't know how to process other stuff. He got blinders on.

Not sure this is the best example as there are only 3 seconds left on the clock and RJ is covered by 3 guys with no passing lane. Would probably need to see the lead in on this - meaning, could he have passed out earlier?

Agreed he didn't have any real options besides a bad shot at that point. In context to the clock winding down he had to take that shot.

The clip obviously starts at around the 4 or 5 second mark but also cuts off anything before that which may show RJ having even a hint more time.

In the NBA, 4 to 5 seconds is a MASSIVE amount of time to both make a decision and execute it.

RJ fucked up. Winning players make the right plays more often than not. RJ is more on the NOT side.

So I happened to catch this clip on stream again.

RJ gets the ball just before half court and along sideline with 4.9 seconds left on clock. He dribbles it along the sideline to cross mid court with just over 4 seconds left on clock with literally 4 defenders around him and IQ on the other side of the court ALL ALONE and waving his hands; IQ is near parallel to RJ, only about 5+ feet behind.

RJ uses all 4 seconds to dribble further down court. With 4 guys all around him. IQ still waving, alone, very sad, almost insecure cause of the lack of attention.

It's like when LeBron was screaming and waving at JR with seconds of a tied playoff game winding down.

martin’s hatred is getting so white-hot and pure it’s kind of fun to watch

If RJ just made some layups.

Marv wrote:

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

wargames wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:IMHO this is not an outlier type situation, RJ misses a ton of these passes. Basic level stuff.

When RJ locks in to a decision early, he doesn't know how to process other stuff. He got blinders on.

Not sure this is the best example as there are only 3 seconds left on the clock and RJ is covered by 3 guys with no passing lane. Would probably need to see the lead in on this - meaning, could he have passed out earlier?

Agreed he didn't have any real options besides a bad shot at that point. In context to the clock winding down he had to take that shot.

The clip obviously starts at around the 4 or 5 second mark but also cuts off anything before that which may show RJ having even a hint more time.

In the NBA, 4 to 5 seconds is a MASSIVE amount of time to both make a decision and execute it.

RJ fucked up. Winning players make the right plays more often than not. RJ is more on the NOT side.

So I happened to catch this clip on stream again.

RJ gets the ball just before half court and along sideline with 4.9 seconds left on clock. He dribbles it along the sideline to cross mid court with just over 4 seconds left on clock with literally 4 defenders around him and IQ on the other side of the court ALL ALONE and waving his hands; IQ is near parallel to RJ, only about 5+ feet behind.

RJ uses all 4 seconds to dribble further down court. With 4 guys all around him. IQ still waving, alone, very sad, almost insecure cause of the lack of attention.

It's like when LeBron was screaming and waving at JR with seconds of a tied playoff game winding down.

martin’s hatred is getting so white-hot and pure it’s kind of fun to watch

It does.

Here is my perspective. RJ has so much that has been god-given to him and he has had as great to phenomenal support system around him, literally the perfect opportunity for him to succeed at the highest levels and he can't connect the dots. This is nails on the chalkboard for me.

I get white-hot when I see any young person in that position TBH.

It kills me to see that level of potential not fulfilled, the window is closing for him IMHO. When you see enough of the same mistakes over and over and over, it's when potential closes and his ceiling gets more defined. That's not to say he can't get better but that high end stuff evaporates. I wanna love RJ and just watch him grow, he does have a perfect personality for NY and to succeed and lead the team.

I'd guess his trainers all die a little more inside every year. I know I do from my Knicks love perspective and it's with a player the Knicks picked #3.

Yeah yeah he was sick so there is that, but for the first time in his career I thought I saw some guys hesitate to move ball to him in a few spots. It's starting to crack.

I mean, I want to be wrong and I want someone to tell me why - hard worker ain't gonna cut it, that's average nba standard at best. Yeah, he won't be 23 til this summer but for his time as an athlete in training, his time LEFT to exponentially grow is short.

IMHO RJ barely understands what his strengths are and how to use them and the best he can do is shore up weakness instead of really turn corner and skyrocket.

martin wrote:

Marv wrote:

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

wargames wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:IMHO this is not an outlier type situation, RJ misses a ton of these passes. Basic level stuff.

When RJ locks in to a decision early, he doesn't know how to process other stuff. He got blinders on.

Not sure this is the best example as there are only 3 seconds left on the clock and RJ is covered by 3 guys with no passing lane. Would probably need to see the lead in on this - meaning, could he have passed out earlier?

Agreed he didn't have any real options besides a bad shot at that point. In context to the clock winding down he had to take that shot.

The clip obviously starts at around the 4 or 5 second mark but also cuts off anything before that which may show RJ having even a hint more time.

In the NBA, 4 to 5 seconds is a MASSIVE amount of time to both make a decision and execute it.

RJ fucked up. Winning players make the right plays more often than not. RJ is more on the NOT side.

So I happened to catch this clip on stream again.

RJ gets the ball just before half court and along sideline with 4.9 seconds left on clock. He dribbles it along the sideline to cross mid court with just over 4 seconds left on clock with literally 4 defenders around him and IQ on the other side of the court ALL ALONE and waving his hands; IQ is near parallel to RJ, only about 5+ feet behind.

RJ uses all 4 seconds to dribble further down court. With 4 guys all around him. IQ still waving, alone, very sad, almost insecure cause of the lack of attention.

It's like when LeBron was screaming and waving at JR with seconds of a tied playoff game winding down.

martin’s hatred is getting so white-hot and pure it’s kind of fun to watch

It does.

Here is my perspective. RJ has so much that has been god-given to him and he has had as great to phenomenal support system around him, literally the perfect opportunity for him to succeed at the highest levels and he can't connect the dots. This is nails on the chalkboard for me.

I get white-hot when I see any young person in that position TBH.

It kills me to see that level of potential not fulfilled, the window is closing for him IMHO. When you see enough of the same mistakes over and over and over, it's when potential closes and his ceiling gets more defined. That's not to say he can't get better but that high end stuff evaporates. I wanna love RJ and just watch him grow, he does have a perfect personality for NY and to succeed and lead the team.

I'd guess his trainers all die a little more inside every year. I know I do from my Knicks love perspective and it's with a player the Knicks picked #3.

Yeah yeah he was sick so there is that, but for the first time in his career I thought I saw some guys hesitate to move ball to him in a few spots. It's starting to crack.

I mean, I want to be wrong and I want someone to tell me why - hard worker ain't gonna cut it, that's average nba standard at best. Yeah, he won't be 23 til this summer but for his time as an athlete in training, his time LEFT to exponentially grow is short.

IMHO RJ barely understands what his strengths are and how to use them and the best he can do is shore up weakness instead of really turn corner and skyrocket.

Martin hitting the hate pipe and found a groove. It happens.

Someone help me out with an honest assessment of RJ. Besides the marginal uptick in his FT% that literally 80% of all NBA players get after their rookie season, what is RJ doing much better now than he did in his first year?

Shooting? eFG% same. 3pt shooting, only 2020 stands out cause of 3 months of hot shooting, and he has been shit since. Steals? Nope. Blocks, nope. Deflections, nope. FTA? Nope. Rebounding, nope. Assists, nope. TO's, nope. Help defense? Nope. Man D? Bleh (although he is good against big guys that try to post him but just get him out on wing and he got his chance to defend opponents best player but now that's Cam's job).

What is better since RJ's rookie year? I can't find anything. Help me identify what I am missing.

Let me ask another question: Is RJ a slow starter for the season or are we just in another month where he can't shoot and that's the norm and it just happens to be Oct/Nov?

Nalod wrote:Martin hitting the hate pipe and found a groove. It happens.

Well I am quite high. And bored, got the COVID for first time. Mostly I got 1-day flu and now light cold and runny nose.

Feel the fury

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

Marv wrote:

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

wargames wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:IMHO this is not an outlier type situation, RJ misses a ton of these passes. Basic level stuff.

When RJ locks in to a decision early, he doesn't know how to process other stuff. He got blinders on.

Not sure this is the best example as there are only 3 seconds left on the clock and RJ is covered by 3 guys with no passing lane. Would probably need to see the lead in on this - meaning, could he have passed out earlier?

Agreed he didn't have any real options besides a bad shot at that point. In context to the clock winding down he had to take that shot.

The clip obviously starts at around the 4 or 5 second mark but also cuts off anything before that which may show RJ having even a hint more time.

In the NBA, 4 to 5 seconds is a MASSIVE amount of time to both make a decision and execute it.

RJ fucked up. Winning players make the right plays more often than not. RJ is more on the NOT side.

So I happened to catch this clip on stream again.

RJ gets the ball just before half court and along sideline with 4.9 seconds left on clock. He dribbles it along the sideline to cross mid court with just over 4 seconds left on clock with literally 4 defenders around him and IQ on the other side of the court ALL ALONE and waving his hands; IQ is near parallel to RJ, only about 5+ feet behind.

RJ uses all 4 seconds to dribble further down court. With 4 guys all around him. IQ still waving, alone, very sad, almost insecure cause of the lack of attention.

It's like when LeBron was screaming and waving at JR with seconds of a tied playoff game winding down.

martin’s hatred is getting so white-hot and pure it’s kind of fun to watch

It does.

Here is my perspective. RJ has so much that has been god-given to him and he has had as great to phenomenal support system around him, literally the perfect opportunity for him to succeed at the highest levels and he can't connect the dots. This is nails on the chalkboard for me.

I get white-hot when I see any young person in that position TBH.

It kills me to see that level of potential not fulfilled, the window is closing for him IMHO. When you see enough of the same mistakes over and over and over, it's when potential closes and his ceiling gets more defined. That's not to say he can't get better but that high end stuff evaporates. I wanna love RJ and just watch him grow, he does have a perfect personality for NY and to succeed and lead the team.

I'd guess his trainers all die a little more inside every year. I know I do from my Knicks love perspective and it's with a player the Knicks picked #3.

Yeah yeah he was sick so there is that, but for the first time in his career I thought I saw some guys hesitate to move ball to him in a few spots. It's starting to crack.

I mean, I want to be wrong and I want someone to tell me why - hard worker ain't gonna cut it, that's average nba standard at best. Yeah, he won't be 23 til this summer but for his time as an athlete in training, his time LEFT to exponentially grow is short.

IMHO RJ barely understands what his strengths are and how to use them and the best he can do is shore up weakness instead of really turn corner and skyrocket.

Martin hitting the hate pipe and found a groove. It happens.

Kind of a weak response. I read every ounce of that and it’s not hatred hiding there it’s purely regret. Me, I thought I saw real upside there and then saw what happened when he got the keys to the car and decided I must have been seeing things. No hatred or regret, I figured I made a mistake in my evaluation and moved on. m is actually invested in this guy and still believes. That’s not hatred that’s love. You gotta love the player to care.