Knicks · Fire Thibs (page 52)

fishmike @ 4/1/2025 9:09 AM
martin wrote:Knicks have certainly not fully gelled as a team but did have 2 All Star starters and Josh Hart is playing out of his mind this year.

OG is having a career best year as well.

Off the top of my head. Without having to use more than a few brain cells. Within seconds of pondering the topic.

Clean wrote:
well if someone on twatter said it it must be true! People are talking about it! You should text this to Franco... he'll watch it instead of the game

Best starting 5 in the league
2 all star STARTERS
Josh Hart having a career year
OG having a career year

So yeah... that leaves Bridges. Fire Thibs for that

Nalod @ 4/1/2025 9:10 AM
Swinny did not make a good case.
They need content so they create.
The fact the team is geared to offense than defense tells you he adopted to the roster.
Swinny assumes change is good. not always.
fishmike @ 4/1/2025 9:28 AM
Nalod wrote:Swinny did not make a good case.
They need content so they create.
The fact the team is geared to offense than defense tells you he adopted to the roster.
Swinny assumes change is good. not always.
there's no case. Nothing specific mentioned. No indication he's watching the games. They are .666 team with Brunson or about there.

Which players are not the best version of themselves?

Is it KAT with his career high rebounds? OG with his career high scoring? Josh Hart with career highs in rebounding/steals/ppg/assists? Is that the guy?

martin @ 4/1/2025 9:59 AM
Swinny is good for a yell and maybe self induced high blood pressure
fishmike @ 4/2/2025 8:55 AM
https://streamable.com/e3053t

reporter: What was your favorite part of playing for the Knicks? What do you remember the most?
Grimes: playing for Thibs

VDesai @ 4/2/2025 9:04 AM
martin wrote:Knicks have certainly not fully gelled as a team but did have 2 All Star starters and Josh Hart is playing out of his mind this year.

OG is having a career best year as well.

Off the top of my head. Without having to use more than a few brain cells. Within seconds of pondering the topic.

Clean wrote:

Terrific points. Really 4 out of 5 of the players have been pretty maximized and Bridges is averaging 18ppg on 50% FG, which knowing he would be a 3rd banana, is something most would have been very happy to sign up 4.

It does feel at times that the team isn't running smoothly. We rarely see each player playing at their peak all at once. Aside from KAT and Brunson, everyone's 3pt shooting % is way below what we would have expected. Bridges tends to get lost at times. I think Anunoby has been involved from the jump, but he had that 2 month period where was physically shot and losing his balance constantly. Now he's healthy and Brunson is out so we haven't seen it fully come together.

Its a work in progress. There's probably another level to this. But they've also been performing pretty well!

Panos @ 4/2/2025 9:44 AM
fishmike wrote:
Nalod wrote:Swinny did not make a good case.
They need content so they create.
The fact the team is geared to offense than defense tells you he adopted to the roster.
Swinny assumes change is good. not always.
there's no case. Nothing specific mentioned. No indication he's watching the games. They are .666 team with Brunson or about there.

Which players are not the best version of themselves?

Is it KAT with his career high rebounds? OG with his career high scoring? Josh Hart with career highs in rebounding/steals/ppg/assists? Is that the guy?

Preach!
Josh Hart went from "Who?" to like the best glue guy in the league. And Let's not forget about Hartenstein flourishing under Thibs. DDV. Even Randle.
Additionally, for all the bitching the minutes police constantly drone on about certain young players not getting enough minutes,
riddle me this: have you ever seen a team like these Thibs teams where stars/starters go down and bench players step in and excel and the team doesn't really seem to suffer?
And then the bench guys go down and the 3rd stringers step up like bosses? I mean, whaaat?!
How is that done? Thibs has everyone prepared, even if they are not getting minutes in games.

Seriously, can we lock this stupid thread?

martin @ 4/2/2025 11:36 AM
VDesai wrote:
martin wrote:Knicks have certainly not fully gelled as a team but did have 2 All Star starters and Josh Hart is playing out of his mind this year.

OG is having a career best year as well.

Off the top of my head. Without having to use more than a few brain cells. Within seconds of pondering the topic.

Clean wrote:

Terrific points. Really 4 out of 5 of the players have been pretty maximized and Bridges is averaging 18ppg on 50% FG, which knowing he would be a 3rd banana, is something most would have been very happy to sign up 4.

It does feel at times that the team isn't running smoothly. We rarely see each player playing at their peak all at once. Aside from KAT and Brunson, everyone's 3pt shooting % is way below what we would have expected. Bridges tends to get lost at times. I think Anunoby has been involved from the jump, but he had that 2 month period where was physically shot and losing his balance constantly. Now he's healthy and Brunson is out so we haven't seen it fully come together.

Its a work in progress. There's probably another level to this. But they've also been performing pretty well!

The Knicks have had quarters of good play and maybe enough tied together to almost feel like a full game of completeness. Both offensively and defensively.

I'd go as far as saying that haven't put together even one complete game of 48 minutes of max offense and defense at the same time. Not one game.

But if you can't see that individual players are getting pushed to their max, you are not paying attention and are trying to get attention to your own malnourished ego. Self Fellate!

martin @ 4/2/2025 11:38 AM
Panos wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Nalod wrote:Swinny did not make a good case.
They need content so they create.
The fact the team is geared to offense than defense tells you he adopted to the roster.
Swinny assumes change is good. not always.
there's no case. Nothing specific mentioned. No indication he's watching the games. They are .666 team with Brunson or about there.

Which players are not the best version of themselves?

Is it KAT with his career high rebounds? OG with his career high scoring? Josh Hart with career highs in rebounding/steals/ppg/assists? Is that the guy?

Preach!
Josh Hart went from "Who?" to like the best glue guy in the league. And Let's not forget about Hartenstein flourishing under Thibs. DDV. Even Randle.
Additionally, for all the bitching the minutes police constantly drone on about certain young players not getting enough minutes,
riddle me this: have you ever seen a team like these Thibs teams where stars/starters go down and bench players step in and excel and the team doesn't really seem to suffer?
And then the bench guys go down and the 3rd stringers step up like bosses? I mean, whaaat?!
How is that done? Thibs has everyone prepared, even if they are not getting minutes in games.

Seriously, can we lock this stupid thread?

It's 2 different eras of course, but breaking Clyde's triple-dboule record speaks for itself. And Clyde had the ball in his hands a lot more.

fishmike @ 4/2/2025 4:44 PM
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Nalod wrote:Swinny did not make a good case.
They need content so they create.
The fact the team is geared to offense than defense tells you he adopted to the roster.
Swinny assumes change is good. not always.
there's no case. Nothing specific mentioned. No indication he's watching the games. They are .666 team with Brunson or about there.

Which players are not the best version of themselves?

Is it KAT with his career high rebounds? OG with his career high scoring? Josh Hart with career highs in rebounding/steals/ppg/assists? Is that the guy?

Preach!
Josh Hart went from "Who?" to like the best glue guy in the league. And Let's not forget about Hartenstein flourishing under Thibs. DDV. Even Randle.
Additionally, for all the bitching the minutes police constantly drone on about certain young players not getting enough minutes,
riddle me this: have you ever seen a team like these Thibs teams where stars/starters go down and bench players step in and excel and the team doesn't really seem to suffer?
And then the bench guys go down and the 3rd stringers step up like bosses? I mean, whaaat?!
How is that done? Thibs has everyone prepared, even if they are not getting minutes in games.

Seriously, can we lock this stupid thread?

It's 2 different eras of course, but breaking Clyde's triple-dboule record speaks for itself. And Clyde had the ball in his hands a lot more.

veteran players have taken leaps and bounds under Thibs. Randle went from consolation signing to 3x all star and all NBA guy under Thibs. DD had a career year here. Now OG with the offense... all these guys are unlocking levels unseen before Thibs. He's not a golden mooby, but he's a good phucking coach and if he does anything it's let the players be themselves. Play YOUR best VERSION of your game, not THIB's version.
martin @ 4/2/2025 8:04 PM

UPDATE

Panos @ 4/2/2025 8:07 PM
martin wrote:

Is that even legal?

martin @ 4/2/2025 8:12 PM
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:

Is that even legal?

In most states but there are some weird rules those Christians don’t want to admit to

martin @ 4/2/2025 8:20 PM
Thibs coaching tree exists LOL

Clean @ 4/3/2025 8:13 AM
I totally forgot I posted that Clip. I think you guys are conflating 2 things. He never said no one is playing well. He said they are not in their best position to be the best version of themselves. Lets take a look at each player for a second.

Kat
KAT is best played in a lineup with a mobile defensive big on D and on offense is best when played in a 5 out system because that opens things up for everyone. Right now his defense sucks and we are not getting use out of him on offense like we expected because he is teamed with Hart and team just stick the center on him. His tendency is to drive to the hoop but that gets him in trouble because we are not 5 players out and the paint is always clogged. Kat is talented enough so he wil get numbers but he is not being put in the best position.

Hart
Having a career year but him being in as a starter mean the offense is clogged. He often gets put in lineups with Mitch and Precious. We almost always lose those minutes. Hart with the paint clogged goes periods where all he can do is shoot open 3's and hope he is making them that night. However, I think this problem is a Hart problem with the exception of the times Thibs plays him with 2 other non shooters. That is just pure idiotic.

OG and Bridges
OG and Bridges are kind of the same deal. They are finishers that are best when attacking a closeout or shooting after a playmaker set them up with an open shot. OG has added the rip through move and the euro step and that has increased his bag but if you notice he is still being setup with Brunson out. Bridges has become our playmaker in this new reality. Bridges is not the best playmaker but the best we have now that Brunson is out. Bridges and OG both go long periods without touching the ball because the later the game gets the more Bruncen centric out offense gets. It is why once Brunson is playing they take huge steps backwards. Both would do better in an offense with spacing and movement. In 2nd halfs they are stuck in ISO offense with clogged paint because of non shooters also on the court.

Brunson
Brunson is a great player and will play great in any situation but he would be best in a 5 out offense. We never play him in that because there is always a non shooter with him. We have no idea what his best is because we never seen it.

I am sure many won't agree and that's fine but its best we have a debate on what he actually said. I was going to do everyone but my interest went down fast LOL.

Panos @ 4/3/2025 8:24 AM
Clean wrote:I totally forgot I posted that Clip. I think you guys are conflating 2 things. He never said no one is playing well. He said they are not in their best position to be the best version of themselves. Lets take a look at each player for a second.

Kat
KAT is best played in a lineup with a mobile defensive big on D and on offense is best when played in a 5 out system because that opens things up for everyone. Right now his defense sucks and we are not getting use out of him on offense like we expected because he is teamed with Hart and team just stick the center on him. His tendency is to drive to the hoop but that gets him in trouble because we are not 5 players out and the paint is always clogged. Kat is talented enough so he wil get numbers but he is not being put in the best position.

Hart
Having a career year but him being in as a starter mean the offense is clogged. He often gets put in lineups with Mitch and Precious. We almost always lose those minutes. Hart with the paint clogged goes periods where all he can do is shoot open 3's and hope he is making them that night. However, I think this problem is a Hart problem with the exception of the times Thibs plays him with 2 other non shooters. That is just pure idiotic.

OG and Bridges
OG and Bridges are kind of the same deal. They are finishers that are best when attacking a closeout or shooting after a playmaker set them up with an open shot. OG has added the rip through move and the euro step and that has increased his bag but if you notice he is still being setup with Brunson out. Bridges has become our playmaker in this new reality. Bridges is not the best playmaker but the best we have now that Brunson is out. Bridges and OG both go long periods without touching the ball because the later the game gets the more Bruncen centric out offense gets. It is why once Brunson is playing they take huge steps backwards. Both would do better in an offense with spacing and movement. In 2nd halfs they are stuck in ISO offense with clogged paint because of non shooters also on the court.

Brunson
Brunson is a great player and will play great in any situation but he would be best in a 5 out offense. We never play him in that because there is always a non shooter with him. We have no idea what his best is because we never seen it.

I am sure many won't agree and that's fine but its best we have a debate on what he actually said. I was going to do everyone but my interest went down fast LOL.

TLDR your main issue is that Hart is not a great shooter and thus it's not a 5 out offense. So all these other four players are not being put in position to be their best selves because of one player on the floor, who by the way, gets the most assists and gets all the rebounds that OG and Mikal should be getting?
Is that it?

VDesai @ 4/3/2025 8:50 AM
Panos wrote:
Clean wrote:I totally forgot I posted that Clip. I think you guys are conflating 2 things. He never said no one is playing well. He said they are not in their best position to be the best version of themselves. Lets take a look at each player for a second.

Kat
KAT is best played in a lineup with a mobile defensive big on D and on offense is best when played in a 5 out system because that opens things up for everyone. Right now his defense sucks and we are not getting use out of him on offense like we expected because he is teamed with Hart and team just stick the center on him. His tendency is to drive to the hoop but that gets him in trouble because we are not 5 players out and the paint is always clogged. Kat is talented enough so he wil get numbers but he is not being put in the best position.

Hart
Having a career year but him being in as a starter mean the offense is clogged. He often gets put in lineups with Mitch and Precious. We almost always lose those minutes. Hart with the paint clogged goes periods where all he can do is shoot open 3's and hope he is making them that night. However, I think this problem is a Hart problem with the exception of the times Thibs plays him with 2 other non shooters. That is just pure idiotic.

OG and Bridges
OG and Bridges are kind of the same deal. They are finishers that are best when attacking a closeout or shooting after a playmaker set them up with an open shot. OG has added the rip through move and the euro step and that has increased his bag but if you notice he is still being setup with Brunson out. Bridges has become our playmaker in this new reality. Bridges is not the best playmaker but the best we have now that Brunson is out. Bridges and OG both go long periods without touching the ball because the later the game gets the more Bruncen centric out offense gets. It is why once Brunson is playing they take huge steps backwards. Both would do better in an offense with spacing and movement. In 2nd halfs they are stuck in ISO offense with clogged paint because of non shooters also on the court.

Brunson
Brunson is a great player and will play great in any situation but he would be best in a 5 out offense. We never play him in that because there is always a non shooter with him. We have no idea what his best is because we never seen it.

I am sure many won't agree and that's fine but its best we have a debate on what he actually said. I was going to do everyone but my interest went down fast LOL.

TLDR your main issue is that Hart is not a great shooter and thus it's not a 5 out offense. So all these other four players are not being put in position to be their best selves because of one player on the floor, who by the way, gets the most assists and gets all the rebounds that OG and Mikal should be getting?
Is that it?


I think the "smart" Knick fan narrative is that problems would be solved by swapping Deuce for Hart because of the shooting, and that Hart's minutes why we can't maximize the offense. There's A LOT of things Hart can do that Deuce doesn't do well. Hart is a better rebounder, secondary playmaker, ball handler and transition finisher. You may gain in one spot, and lose in others. I don't think it's the magic bullet some may think. The offense hummed at times with Hart being a triple double machine on the floor. It comes down to decisiveness with the ball and making the next play - whether its taking an open shot or attacking the space or making the next pass. He did it well earlier in the year, and has been less effective lately. Part of it is also attacking the way teams defend us, so you bring Hart into the action early - have him initiate with Brunson off ball. Have him run pick and roll with Brunson. To me, this is what I would ask the coach to lean into more. And yes, Josh needs to turn it up and be more decisive. But a lot of players have to do more or do something better. Bridges needs way more aggression. KAT needs to stop complaining about fouls and stay focused, etc.

Nalod @ 4/3/2025 9:26 AM

"The best version"?
Well Kat came here and has has been playing some of his best ball in years. 2nd in rebounding and 13th league wise in scoring. 68 games thus far is not awful given his history. Has Brunson not improved since he got here? Im not sure there is more to his ceiling but how can anyone measure what his "best self" is? One cannot quantify this. So your not wrong.......but its vague.

Josh Hart since he got here? Shooting is erratic but the kid is a machine out there.
Lets remember OG wanted more offensive load and it was one reason he was traded from Toronto. They did not want to pay him given his offensive productions. Has OG not blossomed in his tenure here under Thibs? Seems a trend with Thibian coached players is they are tasked with facets to improve and they sometimes take steps back before moving forward. Many instances with IQ, RJ, Deuce, and Josh where they had to play until some things became instincts. Not all players execute what the coach wants. There i

Im reminded that Grimes said some nice things about Thibs the other day. I expect he is on his best behavior vying for a nice contract but he did not have what he did. He could have been more neutral or gave the "im getting more opportunities and credit Nick Nurse" stuff. But he said Thibs got him prepared. I think Kat emerged from immaturity to appreciate the Thibian way with more experience.

Thibs is doing a great job. I understand the frustration of not getting to the next level after a few years of moving up the rankings. Thus I get the thought that perhaps "Thibs has talent them as far as they can go". At the same time each season we have seen that Thibs gets the most of his teams in the regular season and having done that we want more playoff success. Its the fans opinion this is possible with the logic of not expending it all and saving some for the post season.

Panos @ 4/3/2025 9:46 AM
VDesai wrote:
Panos wrote:
Clean wrote:I totally forgot I posted that Clip. I think you guys are conflating 2 things. He never said no one is playing well. He said they are not in their best position to be the best version of themselves. Lets take a look at each player for a second.

Kat
KAT is best played in a lineup with a mobile defensive big on D and on offense is best when played in a 5 out system because that opens things up for everyone. Right now his defense sucks and we are not getting use out of him on offense like we expected because he is teamed with Hart and team just stick the center on him. His tendency is to drive to the hoop but that gets him in trouble because we are not 5 players out and the paint is always clogged. Kat is talented enough so he wil get numbers but he is not being put in the best position.

Hart
Having a career year but him being in as a starter mean the offense is clogged. He often gets put in lineups with Mitch and Precious. We almost always lose those minutes. Hart with the paint clogged goes periods where all he can do is shoot open 3's and hope he is making them that night. However, I think this problem is a Hart problem with the exception of the times Thibs plays him with 2 other non shooters. That is just pure idiotic.

OG and Bridges
OG and Bridges are kind of the same deal. They are finishers that are best when attacking a closeout or shooting after a playmaker set them up with an open shot. OG has added the rip through move and the euro step and that has increased his bag but if you notice he is still being setup with Brunson out. Bridges has become our playmaker in this new reality. Bridges is not the best playmaker but the best we have now that Brunson is out. Bridges and OG both go long periods without touching the ball because the later the game gets the more Bruncen centric out offense gets. It is why once Brunson is playing they take huge steps backwards. Both would do better in an offense with spacing and movement. In 2nd halfs they are stuck in ISO offense with clogged paint because of non shooters also on the court.

Brunson
Brunson is a great player and will play great in any situation but he would be best in a 5 out offense. We never play him in that because there is always a non shooter with him. We have no idea what his best is because we never seen it.

I am sure many won't agree and that's fine but its best we have a debate on what he actually said. I was going to do everyone but my interest went down fast LOL.

TLDR your main issue is that Hart is not a great shooter and thus it's not a 5 out offense. So all these other four players are not being put in position to be their best selves because of one player on the floor, who by the way, gets the most assists and gets all the rebounds that OG and Mikal should be getting?
Is that it?


I think the "smart" Knick fan narrative is that problems would be solved by swapping Deuce for Hart because of the shooting, and that Hart's minutes why we can't maximize the offense. There's A LOT of things Hart can do that Deuce doesn't do well. Hart is a better rebounder, secondary playmaker, ball handler and transition finisher. You may gain in one spot, and lose in others. I don't think it's the magic bullet some may think. The offense hummed at times with Hart being a triple double machine on the floor. It comes down to decisiveness with the ball and making the next play - whether its taking an open shot or attacking the space or making the next pass. He did it well earlier in the year, and has been less effective lately. Part of it is also attacking the way teams defend us, so you bring Hart into the action early - have him initiate with Brunson off ball. Have him run pick and roll with Brunson. To me, this is what I would ask the coach to lean into more. And yes, Josh needs to turn it up and be more decisive. But a lot of players have to do more or do something better. Bridges needs way more aggression. KAT needs to stop complaining about fouls and stay focused, etc.

Right, except you put Deuce in, and you just got small, and not enough rebounding. I've advocated elsewhere to start JB, Deuce, OG, KAT, Mitch, as a balanced lineup with shooting and defense, which also is not 5-out. Why are we suddenly so sure that 5-out is the magic elixir? And if so, we don't have the roster for it - you'll have to trade Hart for Derrick White.

martin @ 4/3/2025 1:13 PM
Panos wrote:
VDesai wrote:
Panos wrote:
Clean wrote:I totally forgot I posted that Clip. I think you guys are conflating 2 things. He never said no one is playing well. He said they are not in their best position to be the best version of themselves. Lets take a look at each player for a second.

Kat
KAT is best played in a lineup with a mobile defensive big on D and on offense is best when played in a 5 out system because that opens things up for everyone. Right now his defense sucks and we are not getting use out of him on offense like we expected because he is teamed with Hart and team just stick the center on him. His tendency is to drive to the hoop but that gets him in trouble because we are not 5 players out and the paint is always clogged. Kat is talented enough so he wil get numbers but he is not being put in the best position.

Hart
Having a career year but him being in as a starter mean the offense is clogged. He often gets put in lineups with Mitch and Precious. We almost always lose those minutes. Hart with the paint clogged goes periods where all he can do is shoot open 3's and hope he is making them that night. However, I think this problem is a Hart problem with the exception of the times Thibs plays him with 2 other non shooters. That is just pure idiotic.

OG and Bridges
OG and Bridges are kind of the same deal. They are finishers that are best when attacking a closeout or shooting after a playmaker set them up with an open shot. OG has added the rip through move and the euro step and that has increased his bag but if you notice he is still being setup with Brunson out. Bridges has become our playmaker in this new reality. Bridges is not the best playmaker but the best we have now that Brunson is out. Bridges and OG both go long periods without touching the ball because the later the game gets the more Bruncen centric out offense gets. It is why once Brunson is playing they take huge steps backwards. Both would do better in an offense with spacing and movement. In 2nd halfs they are stuck in ISO offense with clogged paint because of non shooters also on the court.

Brunson
Brunson is a great player and will play great in any situation but he would be best in a 5 out offense. We never play him in that because there is always a non shooter with him. We have no idea what his best is because we never seen it.

I am sure many won't agree and that's fine but its best we have a debate on what he actually said. I was going to do everyone but my interest went down fast LOL.

TLDR your main issue is that Hart is not a great shooter and thus it's not a 5 out offense. So all these other four players are not being put in position to be their best selves because of one player on the floor, who by the way, gets the most assists and gets all the rebounds that OG and Mikal should be getting?
Is that it?


I think the "smart" Knick fan narrative is that problems would be solved by swapping Deuce for Hart because of the shooting, and that Hart's minutes why we can't maximize the offense. There's A LOT of things Hart can do that Deuce doesn't do well. Hart is a better rebounder, secondary playmaker, ball handler and transition finisher. You may gain in one spot, and lose in others. I don't think it's the magic bullet some may think. The offense hummed at times with Hart being a triple double machine on the floor. It comes down to decisiveness with the ball and making the next play - whether its taking an open shot or attacking the space or making the next pass. He did it well earlier in the year, and has been less effective lately. Part of it is also attacking the way teams defend us, so you bring Hart into the action early - have him initiate with Brunson off ball. Have him run pick and roll with Brunson. To me, this is what I would ask the coach to lean into more. And yes, Josh needs to turn it up and be more decisive. But a lot of players have to do more or do something better. Bridges needs way more aggression. KAT needs to stop complaining about fouls and stay focused, etc.

Right, except you put Deuce in, and you just got small, and not enough rebounding. I've advocated elsewhere to start JB, Deuce, OG, KAT, Mitch, as a balanced lineup with shooting and defense, which also is not 5-out. Why are we suddenly so sure that 5-out is the magic elixir? And if so, we don't have the roster for it - you'll have to trade Hart for Derrick White.

Yep, excellent points.

BigDaddyG @ 4/3/2025 1:20 PM
This thread needs to be renamed. Trump isn't spelled T-H-I-B-S.
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