This thread needs to be renamed. Trump isn't spelled T-H-I-B-S.
BigDaddyG wrote:This thread needs to be renamed. Trump isn't spelled T-H-I-B-S.
what are you talking about? Rookie can explain how it's going great. Thank god we were all spared having a public servant like Kamala doing liberal shit. You clearly lack perspective
Panos wrote:VDesai wrote:Panos wrote:Clean wrote:I totally forgot I posted that Clip. I think you guys are conflating 2 things. He never said no one is playing well. He said they are not in their best position to be the best version of themselves. Lets take a look at each player for a second. Kat
KAT is best played in a lineup with a mobile defensive big on D and on offense is best when played in a 5 out system because that opens things up for everyone. Right now his defense sucks and we are not getting use out of him on offense like we expected because he is teamed with Hart and team just stick the center on him. His tendency is to drive to the hoop but that gets him in trouble because we are not 5 players out and the paint is always clogged. Kat is talented enough so he wil get numbers but he is not being put in the best position.
Hart
Having a career year but him being in as a starter mean the offense is clogged. He often gets put in lineups with Mitch and Precious. We almost always lose those minutes. Hart with the paint clogged goes periods where all he can do is shoot open 3's and hope he is making them that night. However, I think this problem is a Hart problem with the exception of the times Thibs plays him with 2 other non shooters. That is just pure idiotic.
OG and Bridges
OG and Bridges are kind of the same deal. They are finishers that are best when attacking a closeout or shooting after a playmaker set them up with an open shot. OG has added the rip through move and the euro step and that has increased his bag but if you notice he is still being setup with Brunson out. Bridges has become our playmaker in this new reality. Bridges is not the best playmaker but the best we have now that Brunson is out. Bridges and OG both go long periods without touching the ball because the later the game gets the more Bruncen centric out offense gets. It is why once Brunson is playing they take huge steps backwards. Both would do better in an offense with spacing and movement. In 2nd halfs they are stuck in ISO offense with clogged paint because of non shooters also on the court.
Brunson
Brunson is a great player and will play great in any situation but he would be best in a 5 out offense. We never play him in that because there is always a non shooter with him. We have no idea what his best is because we never seen it.
I am sure many won't agree and that's fine but its best we have a debate on what he actually said. I was going to do everyone but my interest went down fast LOL.
TLDR your main issue is that Hart is not a great shooter and thus it's not a 5 out offense. So all these other four players are not being put in position to be their best selves because of one player on the floor, who by the way, gets the most assists and gets all the rebounds that OG and Mikal should be getting?
Is that it?
I think the "smart" Knick fan narrative is that problems would be solved by swapping Deuce for Hart because of the shooting, and that Hart's minutes why we can't maximize the offense. There's A LOT of things Hart can do that Deuce doesn't do well. Hart is a better rebounder, secondary playmaker, ball handler and transition finisher. You may gain in one spot, and lose in others. I don't think it's the magic bullet some may think. The offense hummed at times with Hart being a triple double machine on the floor. It comes down to decisiveness with the ball and making the next play - whether its taking an open shot or attacking the space or making the next pass. He did it well earlier in the year, and has been less effective lately. Part of it is also attacking the way teams defend us, so you bring Hart into the action early - have him initiate with Brunson off ball. Have him run pick and roll with Brunson. To me, this is what I would ask the coach to lean into more. And yes, Josh needs to turn it up and be more decisive. But a lot of players have to do more or do something better. Bridges needs way more aggression. KAT needs to stop complaining about fouls and stay focused, etc.
Right, except you put Deuce in, and you just got small, and not enough rebounding. I've advocated elsewhere to start JB, Deuce, OG, KAT, Mitch, as a balanced lineup with shooting and defense, which also is not 5-out. Why are we suddenly so sure that 5-out is the magic elixir? And if so, we don't have the roster for it - you'll have to trade Hart for Derrick White.
Swap Hart for Mitch. Thats an easy switch since Hart is already on record saying he doesn't mind it. Gives the starting lineup much needed size at all positions. Mitch will replace Harts rebounding.
But knowing Thibs, he will stick to the same lineup and just make rotation adjustments.
blkexec wrote:Panos wrote:VDesai wrote:Panos wrote:Clean wrote:I totally forgot I posted that Clip. I think you guys are conflating 2 things. He never said no one is playing well. He said they are not in their best position to be the best version of themselves. Lets take a look at each player for a second. Kat
KAT is best played in a lineup with a mobile defensive big on D and on offense is best when played in a 5 out system because that opens things up for everyone. Right now his defense sucks and we are not getting use out of him on offense like we expected because he is teamed with Hart and team just stick the center on him. His tendency is to drive to the hoop but that gets him in trouble because we are not 5 players out and the paint is always clogged. Kat is talented enough so he wil get numbers but he is not being put in the best position.
Hart
Having a career year but him being in as a starter mean the offense is clogged. He often gets put in lineups with Mitch and Precious. We almost always lose those minutes. Hart with the paint clogged goes periods where all he can do is shoot open 3's and hope he is making them that night. However, I think this problem is a Hart problem with the exception of the times Thibs plays him with 2 other non shooters. That is just pure idiotic.
OG and Bridges
OG and Bridges are kind of the same deal. They are finishers that are best when attacking a closeout or shooting after a playmaker set them up with an open shot. OG has added the rip through move and the euro step and that has increased his bag but if you notice he is still being setup with Brunson out. Bridges has become our playmaker in this new reality. Bridges is not the best playmaker but the best we have now that Brunson is out. Bridges and OG both go long periods without touching the ball because the later the game gets the more Bruncen centric out offense gets. It is why once Brunson is playing they take huge steps backwards. Both would do better in an offense with spacing and movement. In 2nd halfs they are stuck in ISO offense with clogged paint because of non shooters also on the court.
Brunson
Brunson is a great player and will play great in any situation but he would be best in a 5 out offense. We never play him in that because there is always a non shooter with him. We have no idea what his best is because we never seen it.
I am sure many won't agree and that's fine but its best we have a debate on what he actually said. I was going to do everyone but my interest went down fast LOL.
TLDR your main issue is that Hart is not a great shooter and thus it's not a 5 out offense. So all these other four players are not being put in position to be their best selves because of one player on the floor, who by the way, gets the most assists and gets all the rebounds that OG and Mikal should be getting?
Is that it?
I think the "smart" Knick fan narrative is that problems would be solved by swapping Deuce for Hart because of the shooting, and that Hart's minutes why we can't maximize the offense. There's A LOT of things Hart can do that Deuce doesn't do well. Hart is a better rebounder, secondary playmaker, ball handler and transition finisher. You may gain in one spot, and lose in others. I don't think it's the magic bullet some may think. The offense hummed at times with Hart being a triple double machine on the floor. It comes down to decisiveness with the ball and making the next play - whether its taking an open shot or attacking the space or making the next pass. He did it well earlier in the year, and has been less effective lately. Part of it is also attacking the way teams defend us, so you bring Hart into the action early - have him initiate with Brunson off ball. Have him run pick and roll with Brunson. To me, this is what I would ask the coach to lean into more. And yes, Josh needs to turn it up and be more decisive. But a lot of players have to do more or do something better. Bridges needs way more aggression. KAT needs to stop complaining about fouls and stay focused, etc.
Right, except you put Deuce in, and you just got small, and not enough rebounding. I've advocated elsewhere to start JB, Deuce, OG, KAT, Mitch, as a balanced lineup with shooting and defense, which also is not 5-out. Why are we suddenly so sure that 5-out is the magic elixir? And if so, we don't have the roster for it - you'll have to trade Hart for Derrick White.
Swap Hart for Mitch. Thats an easy switch since Hart is already on record saying he doesn't mind it. Gives the starting lineup much needed size at all positions. Mitch will replace Harts rebounding.
But knowing Thibs, he will stick to the same lineup and just make rotation adjustments.
It hard to say Mitch because he's never able to play but this is the right move. Josh is not and should not be losing his spot to McBride. He's simply not as good a player. The right play is to go big and bring Josh off the bench, but Mitch is not a 30mpg 70 games a year player.
Mitch simply can't be relied upon to play 30+ min. He is getting winded playing 20. Its been weeks and he's still not in good enough shape to do more. Right now we pencil him in for 20-25 off the bench and hope he lasts.
The starting lineup will be what it is. I think it would help to play Deuce a bit more, like closer to a 6th starter pushing 30 mins to take some pressure off the wings.
VDesai wrote:Mitch simply can't be relied upon to play 30+ min. He is getting winded playing 20. Its been weeks and he's still not in good enough shape to do more. Right now we pencil him in for 20-25 off the bench and hope he lasts.The starting lineup will be what it is. I think it would help to play Deuce a bit more, like closer to a 6th starter pushing 30 mins to take some pressure off the wings.
The irony of Deuce not getting enough minutes and missing the most games of the 7 most important players on the team (excluding Mitch from that list) while also being the most injured is 4D minutes police chess I'm not ready for.
Checkmate or something
martin wrote:VDesai wrote:Mitch simply can't be relied upon to play 30+ min. He is getting winded playing 20. Its been weeks and he's still not in good enough shape to do more. Right now we pencil him in for 20-25 off the bench and hope he lasts.The starting lineup will be what it is. I think it would help to play Deuce a bit more, like closer to a 6th starter pushing 30 mins to take some pressure off the wings.
The irony of Deuce not getting enough minutes and missing the most games of the 7 most important players on the team (excluding Mitch from that list) while also being the most injured is 4D minutes police chess I'm not ready for.
Checkmate or something
That's all true. He hasn't been available enough to deflate the minutes situation more, and neither has Mitch. And for that matter, Precious missed a bunch of time at the beginning.
VDesai wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:Mitch simply can't be relied upon to play 30+ min. He is getting winded playing 20. Its been weeks and he's still not in good enough shape to do more. Right now we pencil him in for 20-25 off the bench and hope he lasts.The starting lineup will be what it is. I think it would help to play Deuce a bit more, like closer to a 6th starter pushing 30 mins to take some pressure off the wings.
The irony of Deuce not getting enough minutes and missing the most games of the 7 most important players on the team (excluding Mitch from that list) while also being the most injured is 4D minutes police chess I'm not ready for.
Checkmate or something
That's all true. He hasn't been available enough to deflate the minutes situation more, and neither has Mitch. And for that matter, Precious missed a bunch of time at the beginning.
One could almost surmise that one thing has to do with the other. And then add Shamet on the list.
Knicks have almost played without a full bench for most of the year and still have like the 5th best record in league.
That’s insane.
Wild to see when you have a coach who doesn’t know how to optimize his team and put his player in the best positions to be their best selves LOL
OG is breaking his ceiling.
If knicks ever hoist a chip in this era OK is the "Walt Bellamey/howard Komives for Dave DeBusschere" moment. Giving up RJ and IQ was expensive, and then we had to resign him.
Leon has my benefit of the doubt. Fucking brilliant trade. This kid is incredible.
It's not that hard, find the problem, fix the problem.
martin wrote:
martin wrote:It's not that hard, find the problem, fix the problem.martin wrote:
Shit! Logic and perspective. Gustav is going to block that guy
fishmike wrote:martin wrote:It's not that hard, find the problem, fix the problem.martin wrote:
Shit! Logic and perspective. Gustav is going to block that guy
What did Thibs have for breakfast?
martin wrote:
I am not a fire Thibs advocate, but this logic would have led to Toronto NOT hiring Nurse and GSW NOT hiring Kerr and CLE NOT hiring Atkinson. All 3 of those teams fired coaches that took gutter teams to 50 wins.
GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:martin wrote:It's not that hard, find the problem, fix the problem.martin wrote:
Shit! Logic and perspective. Gustav is going to block that guy
What did Thibs have for breakfast?
he prolly skipped breakfast and is busy working in the gym with OG.
fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:martin wrote:It's not that hard, find the problem, fix the problem.martin wrote:
Shit! Logic and perspective. Gustav is going to block that guy
What did Thibs have for breakfast?
he prolly skipped breakfast and is busy working in the gym with OG.
Since you have your head so far up his ass, you would be the first to know. Calling me out every day cause Im not part of the "cult". Get bent.
DLeethal wrote:martin wrote:
I am not a fire Thibs advocate, but this logic would have led to Toronto NOT hiring Nurse and GSW NOT hiring Kerr and CLE NOT hiring Atkinson. All 3 of those teams fired coaches that took gutter teams to 50 wins.
sure... don't forget how Rick Carlisle built up the Pistons but Larry Brown won a title with them. The problem is all those examples are arbitrary because there are more examples of coaches being let go and the team doesnt get any better at all.
Like it's also know many of these guys are not great to work with. Carlisle is a notorious asshole. So is Budholzter. Spoe has a couple good playoff runs mostly behind Butler playing out of his mind and his jock gets ridden like nothing else.
In game coaching is nice but it's not college. It's 82 games and 7 game series and the good ones never panic (see Pat Riley Knicks vs Rockets finals
)
Biggest thing for me is the players. They are always IT, so are we getting the most of them and from them. That's the part that has me saying "great coach." We have seen vets elevate wildly, young guys blossom, b2b 50 win season and b2b advancing in the playoffs.
You look at this with perspective and pre-emptive statements suggesting Thibs should go if they dont ______ is internet fodder for clicks. Good thing is it's super clear Leon is not impacting by any of the chatter and they do their own thing. What a turn around.
