No one else to blame except Knicks defensive philosophy. Thibs has everyone play off their men to help clog up the middle and play help (?) defense so all the time there are offensive players wide open from the 3pt line . The defensive men play off their men too far and can't get back to play defense. I can't blame the players, apparently this is the team philosophy and its not working.
I think its both. The intensity wasn't there--I saw Shai and co blow bast their man to the hoop 1 too many times. I also saw the same dribble hand off weak side pass that led to an open 3 a lot as well.
martin wrote:No doubt the Knicks have had some stinkers but Knicks top 10 in defense against 3pt%, 6th before this godawful displayhttps://www.espn.com/nba/stats/team/_/vi...
Believe it or not I think a lot of that are games where the opponent just was missing wide open shots. If you watch the games its unbelievable how many unopposed, undefended 3 pt shots we give up. Wish there was a stat for that, how close a defender is to a shooter.
BigRedDog wrote:martin wrote:No doubt the Knicks have had some stinkers but Knicks top 10 in defense against 3pt%, 6th before this godawful displayhttps://www.espn.com/nba/stats/team/_/vi...
Believe it or not I think a lot of that are games where the opponent just was missing wide open shots. If you watch the games its unbelievable how many unopposed, undefended 3 pt shots we give up. Wish there was a stat for that, how close a defender is to a shooter.
I think there is and you are probably right but I don't know where to find it. I was shocked at how high it was.
Knicks have played polar opposite type teams and you would think the stats would average out in terms of missing wide open shots.
And not for nothing, but I kinda feel the Knicks also have a ton of wide open shots from 3 that they miss.
You know things arent good when Thibs needs a defensive coordinator.
You gotta expect players like SGA to embarass defenders. Why he has more points in the paint than anyone, including Ja Morant.
Dont expect a Thibs coached team to not make the necessary adjustment defending the 3. Lousy 3pt shooting teams are having a field day, and more attempts vs. the Knicks than any other team Or second to last.
A lot of what Thibs is doing goes from forced to whatever sticks to the wall.
Still believe he should get the whole season. Culture change should extend to how the Knicks treat veteran coaches. Which sometimes has been shabby.
Besides, you want Wembanyana dont you? We're certainly due..lol.
Without Mitch, we have no defense. We miss him a lot. That being said, I agree that guys are playing too far off and are not focused. They are waiting on the pass instead of anticipating the pass and there are way too many across court passes. Those would be picked off if our players were more focused.
martin wrote:BigRedDog wrote:martin wrote:No doubt the Knicks have had some stinkers but Knicks top 10 in defense against 3pt%, 6th before this godawful displayhttps://www.espn.com/nba/stats/team/_/vi...
Believe it or not I think a lot of that are games where the opponent just was missing wide open shots. If you watch the games its unbelievable how many unopposed, undefended 3 pt shots we give up. Wish there was a stat for that, how close a defender is to a shooter.
I think there is and you are probably right but I don't know where to find it. I was shocked at how high it was.
Knicks have played polar opposite type teams and you would think the stats would average out in terms of missing wide open shots.
And not for nothing, but I kinda feel the Knicks also have a ton of wide open shots from 3 that they miss.
They do, this is a bad shooting team. I mean we could of taken Haliburton who is averaging 20 10 and 5, 42% from 3, but at least we have a 12 minute a night PF on the bench. Could of have draft Shai who is one of the best players in the NBA this year. So frustrating watching guards we could have drafted destroy us over and over again
Jmpasq wrote:martin wrote:BigRedDog wrote:martin wrote:No doubt the Knicks have had some stinkers but Knicks top 10 in defense against 3pt%, 6th before this godawful displayhttps://www.espn.com/nba/stats/team/_/vi...
Believe it or not I think a lot of that are games where the opponent just was missing wide open shots. If you watch the games its unbelievable how many unopposed, undefended 3 pt shots we give up. Wish there was a stat for that, how close a defender is to a shooter.
I think there is and you are probably right but I don't know where to find it. I was shocked at how high it was.
Knicks have played polar opposite type teams and you would think the stats would average out in terms of missing wide open shots.
And not for nothing, but I kinda feel the Knicks also have a ton of wide open shots from 3 that they miss.
They do, this is a bad shooting team. I mean we could of taken Haliburton who is averaging 20 10 and 5, 42% from 3, but at least we have a 12 minute a night PF on the bench. Could of have draft Shai who is one of the best players in the NBA this year. So frustrating watching guards we could have drafted destroy us over and over again
For me it's doubly hard cause the one high pick guard that we did pick at #3 is not anywhere near even those guys we passed on in those other drafts
BigRedDog wrote:martin wrote:No doubt the Knicks have had some stinkers but Knicks top 10 in defense against 3pt%, 6th before this godawful displayhttps://www.espn.com/nba/stats/team/_/vi...
Believe it or not I think a lot of that are games where the opponent just was missing wide open shots. If you watch the games its unbelievable how many unopposed, undefended 3 pt shots we give up. Wish there was a stat for that, how close a defender is to a shooter.
You know Mr Stat himself has the numbers for that. We had similar stats like this during our playoff year but teams just missed the open shots. Funny enough, once the playoff started they no longer missed those open 3's.
Clean wrote:BigRedDog wrote:martin wrote:No doubt the Knicks have had some stinkers but Knicks top 10 in defense against 3pt%, 6th before this godawful displayhttps://www.espn.com/nba/stats/team/_/vi...
Believe it or not I think a lot of that are games where the opponent just was missing wide open shots. If you watch the games its unbelievable how many unopposed, undefended 3 pt shots we give up. Wish there was a stat for that, how close a defender is to a shooter.
You know Mr Stat himself has the numbers for that. We had similar stats like this during our playoff year but teams just missed the open shots. Funny enough, once the playoff started they no longer missed those open 3's.
Thanks Clean for the info. eye test usually doesn't lie.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-three-point-pct
We are actually 12th in 3PT% defense. 
A little update on the open 3's stat since the end of the last game.
Clean wrote:
A little update on the open 3's stat since the end of the last game.
Tommy do the "Teams played less than 14 games". Knicks have played 13.
He did tell NOT us what the stats are on the other teams. is it a wide margin or was just barely off?
I don't like this kind of stuff because we take the accuracy for granted, but we don't know the others so the implications we are outliers is assumed.
I count 5 teams that have played 12 games.
13 teams have played 13 games.
The rest have played 14 or more. So 5 teams might exceed, but we don't know do we? They have played 1 less game than knicks.
So its fair to at least say we have allowed more than 13. That is a real stat. In other words 43% of the league has played 13 games. We have given up more uncontested thres than that group.
That does not tell me shit.
How are the other 12 teams that have played more games fairing? WE don't know.
But, it looks really bad when you say it as he did.
We are 6-7. Only number that matters.
as said, the eye test is pretty damning. That these teams are shooting incredible % against us is bad but is it sustainable?
I don't know.
Nalod wrote:Clean wrote:
A little update on the open 3's stat since the end of the last game.
Tommy do the "Teams played less than 14 games". Knicks have played 13.
He did tell NOT us what the stats are on the other teams. is it a wide margin or was just barely off?
I don't like this kind of stuff because we take the accuracy for granted, but we don't know the others so the implications we are outliers is assumed.
I count 5 teams that have played 12 games.
13 teams have played 13 games.
The rest have played 14 or more. So 5 teams might exceed, but we don't know do we? They have played 1 less game than knicks.
So its fair to at least say we have allowed more than 13. That is a real stat. In other words 43% of the league has played 13 games. We have given up more uncontested thres than that group.
That does not tell me shit.
How are the other 12 teams that have played more games fairing? WE don't know.
But, it looks really bad when you say it as he did.
We are 6-7. Only number that matters.
as said, the eye test is pretty damning. That these teams are shooting incredible % against us is bad but is it sustainable?
I don't know.
https://tommybeer.substack.com/p/thibs-m...
And it's been an issue all season. As I pointed out last week, the Knicks are one of just two teams in the NBA allowing more than 20 wide-open treys per game.
Said another way, only 2 NBA teams (wish they would relegate in the US) are allowing more than 20 per game. The Knicks and someone else.
I'm no longer confident that we're a 500 team, at least not the way we're playing of late. We have only beaten really kinda sucky, questionable teams. Between RJ's play, the wide ope 3pt line - I could see 30 games being a ceiling.
franco12 wrote:Nalod wrote:Clean wrote:
A little update on the open 3's stat since the end of the last game.
Tommy do the "Teams played less than 14 games". Knicks have played 13.
He did tell NOT us what the stats are on the other teams. is it a wide margin or was just barely off?
I don't like this kind of stuff because we take the accuracy for granted, but we don't know the others so the implications we are outliers is assumed.
I count 5 teams that have played 12 games.
13 teams have played 13 games.
The rest have played 14 or more. So 5 teams might exceed, but we don't know do we? They have played 1 less game than knicks.
So its fair to at least say we have allowed more than 13. That is a real stat. In other words 43% of the league has played 13 games. We have given up more uncontested thres than that group.
That does not tell me shit.
How are the other 12 teams that have played more games fairing? WE don't know.
But, it looks really bad when you say it as he did.
We are 6-7. Only number that matters.
as said, the eye test is pretty damning. That these teams are shooting incredible % against us is bad but is it sustainable?
I don't know.
https://tommybeer.substack.com/p/thibs-m...
And it's been an issue all season. As I pointed out last week, the Knicks are one of just two teams in the NBA allowing more than 20 wide-open treys per game.
Said another way, only 2 NBA teams (wish they would relegate in the US) are allowing more than 20 per game. The Knicks and someone else.
I'm no longer confident that we're a 500 team, at least not the way we're playing of late. We have only beaten really kinda sucky, questionable teams. Between RJ's play, the wide ope 3pt line - I could see 30 games being a ceiling.
Allowing more than 20 wide open 3's per game??? Totally unacceptable. Who else to blame but the defensive philosophy? Instead of the whole team sagging off their men and try to play team help defense, which is obviously NOT working, why not play defense staying with your man, and have just some weak side defensive help? What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over which isn't clearly working.
I won’t give thibs anymore crap if I see adjustments in the defense… we help out and over commit leaving open shooters. Players need to be more accountable on sticking to their man and helping less and making teams put the ball on the floor and force low percentage iso type shots .
Improving Player trust on defense is a must,
Is their over commitment to help a result of thibs demands to help as often as possible?
Regardless of if it’s on the players to trust each other to help less or thibs relentlessness to stay the course and demand the help regardless of the consequence . At the end of the day it’s on thibs to instal a better system to minimize the help.
Didn't know Tommy Beer started down the clickbait path. It's kinda pathetic
Philc1 wrote:martin wrote:Didn't know Tommy Beer started down the clickbait path. It's kinda pathetic
Started?
I don't pay enough attention to Beer's actual blog posts, that's what I was referring to. I find his outlier stat stuff kinda fun and hold it in that regard.
Creating a blog post with title "Thibs May Have Coached His Last Game at the Garden" is straight and overt clickbait IMHO, like egregious NYPost style stuff. It's a bad look IMHO; he is trying to create news instead of trying to report on it. But maybe that's what he is going after.
It is fun. But seems more agenda driven toward this year as you alluded. Pehraps a more "sensensional" tilt?
