Knicks · [Game Thread 11/15 9PM] Knicks at Jazz (page 7)
Now I want to see consistency let’s take down Denver like we should.
Nalod wrote:Does obi have like a “pitch count” were he plays certain minutes then his play drops off?
NBA teams track movement and other analytics. I too fell asleep on this game. Used to be able snooze during a quarter but now I just fall out for the rest of the game and few hours too!
Im not defending Thibs here but just trying to understand if he wants to win, and Obi playing good, the reasoning to take him out?
If Obi has a pitch count, RJ blew through his last night. Good d and team play from RJ, but o fer from 3.
Right now, if Obi is open from 3, he is legit making the shot. He is super confident right now and in the zone.
We saw last year when Obi gets extended minutes, he produces.
If Thibs doesn't want to go small, and against Utah they were big inside so I understand, then how about putting Obi at the 3?
I think Thibs has some biases about roles and players that are influencing his judgement and I think to the teams detriment at times.
fitzfarm wrote:What an improvement on team defense, cam is really coming into his own if he keeps this up we rocked that trade!Now I want to see consistency let’s take down Denver like we should.
The team defense was very good last night and we didn’t have Mitch
Sims is really blossoming
Nalod wrote:Does obi have like a “pitch count” were he plays certain minutes then his play drops off?
NBA teams track movement and other analytics. I too fell asleep on this game. Used to be able snooze during a quarter but now I just fall out for the rest of the game and few hours too!
Im not defending Thibs here but just trying to understand if he wants to win, and Obi playing good, the reasoning to take him out?
He's had a pitch count since last year...And it doesn't matter if his play drops off or not, he is coming out of the game at the 7th or 6 min mark of the 4th. I think it less about Obi and more about coddling Randle. RJ got benched most of the 2nd half of last game for playing poorly. Randle had a handful of games like that last year and was never benched the way RJ was.
It's starting to be apparent that the knicks will be better off finding a solution to the Randle-obi problem as well as the Fournier-Grimes and Cam logjam.
Ideally both Randle and fournier are wearing a different uniform after the trade deadline, the knicks wont necessarily be a better team but they could potentially be fun to watch.
Uptown wrote:the problem is even when he sucks Randle plays tough and throws elbows and is physical. The reason Thibs doesnt trust Obi late is his rebounding and defense. The same things that get IQ crunch time minutes when he's hot or someone else is sucking.Nalod wrote:Does obi have like a “pitch count” were he plays certain minutes then his play drops off?
NBA teams track movement and other analytics. I too fell asleep on this game. Used to be able snooze during a quarter but now I just fall out for the rest of the game and few hours too!
Im not defending Thibs here but just trying to understand if he wants to win, and Obi playing good, the reasoning to take him out?He's had a pitch count since last year...And it doesn't matter if his play drops off or not, he is coming out of the game at the 7th or 6 min mark of the 4th. I think it less about Obi and more about coddling Randle. RJ got benched most of the 2nd half of last game for playing poorly. Randle had a handful of games like that last year and was never benched the way RJ was.
Everyone here that says Thibs coddles Randle is right. It sucks, and its not a good dynamic when you see it play out. The problem is Randle brings something nobody else on the roster does and its vital in this league. Its why Curry and Klay dont win without Draymond. You need the dirty physical play he brings. Mitch flails. Hart is too nice but tries. I think Cam has it and its why he's moving up in the Thibs totem pole. I can see Cam developing a Bruce Bowen/Marcus Smart bag a nasty tricks.
You guys are right on the Thibs/Randle stuff. I do think Thibs is a good coach and get his conundrum.
Also consider we are not privy to the development. Thibs is also talking all the time about what they see in practice. So for the crew dying to jettison Thibs to play the youth, keep in mind that youth was developed under this coaching staff.
IQ might have been the best player on the floor last night. It look like Cam has won the starting job... I mean we started with Thibs is a win now coach to year 3 seeing some pretty good developments with young players. I guess we will see, its early
Both players are still young, still time to turn their games around. Cam looks like he's making some strides lately. Im glad RJ was benched to close the game. As the third pick, and from his hard work, he's avoided being benched in crunch time for the most part. Barrett has a lot of pride. Sometimes being benched this way can give a player more focus. RJ knowing he could wind up on the bench. This might turn out to be good for his game.
joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:OK...starting to have a change of mind about Cam. He's addressing my biggest concerns with his play. He's doing the little things on both ends of the court. And he's staying aggressive. Not becoming a spectator."RJ vs. the glass"
Thats what it feels like watching RJ trying to finish. I wish he'd stand under the rim and spend a while banking it in with both hands. From every angle imaginable. Its like learning how to bank a pool shot. You study how the ball moves.
Was happy to see Quickley getting extended minutes at the 2. Showing what he can do as an SG. Cam has made a case to start. But Im glad Quickley showed that he can be a real threat at the 2. Had some real nice takes to the rim.
If you could give RJ Cam's finishing skills he would be a star.
If you could give Cam RJ's maturity and work ethic you would have a star.
Is cloning and DNA manipulation still illegal?
fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:the problem is even when he sucks Randle plays tough and throws elbows and is physical. The reason Thibs doesnt trust Obi late is his rebounding and defense. The same things that get IQ crunch time minutes when he's hot or someone else is sucking.Nalod wrote:Does obi have like a “pitch count” were he plays certain minutes then his play drops off?
NBA teams track movement and other analytics. I too fell asleep on this game. Used to be able snooze during a quarter but now I just fall out for the rest of the game and few hours too!
Im not defending Thibs here but just trying to understand if he wants to win, and Obi playing good, the reasoning to take him out?He's had a pitch count since last year...And it doesn't matter if his play drops off or not, he is coming out of the game at the 7th or 6 min mark of the 4th. I think it less about Obi and more about coddling Randle. RJ got benched most of the 2nd half of last game for playing poorly. Randle had a handful of games like that last year and was never benched the way RJ was.
Everyone here that says Thibs coddles Randle is right. It sucks, and its not a good dynamic when you see it play out. The problem is Randle brings something nobody else on the roster does and its vital in this league. Its why Curry and Klay dont win without Draymond. You need the dirty physical play he brings. Mitch flails. Hart is too nice but tries. I think Cam has it and its why he's moving up in the Thibs totem pole. I can see Cam developing a Bruce Bowen/Marcus Smart bag a nasty tricks.
You guys are right on the Thibs/Randle stuff. I do think Thibs is a good coach and get his conundrum.
Also consider we are not privy to the development. Thibs is also talking all the time about what they see in practice. So for the crew dying to jettison Thibs to play the youth, keep in mind that youth was developed under this coaching staff.
IQ might have been the best player on the floor last night. It look like Cam has won the starting job... I mean we started with Thibs is a win now coach to year 3 seeing some pretty good developments with young players. I guess we will see, its early
Thats probably part of the problem he has with Obi....but, if we are strictly talking about last night, it didn't make any sense to pull Obi, especially if we take Thibs at his words the other night. Evan played the entire 4th while RJ rotted on the bench. Thibs reply was that he liked what he saw in that line-up which was Thibs way of justifying giving Evan extended minutes.
The 4th quarter lineup last night with Obi was playing some of the best ball we have seen in a while...why doesn't that same logic apply to Obi?
Honestly, I think the cohesion of this team and the coaching will improve if and when we can move Randle. Not saying we will necessarily win more games without Randle (not that he makes that much a of a difference) but I think moving Randle will allow Brunson to be the unquestioned number 1 option, it will separate RJ and Randle which I think is a bad fit, and giving Obi more minutes will quicken the pace and honestly, also, think it will help Thibs. We will also be more enjoyable to watch...
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1592732295030779904
Click here to view the Tweet
The man speaks the truth. The Thibs lovers had excuses as to why he did what he did last game. This game he does the opposite when it involves Randle and they are quiet. The Randle lovers coming up with new ways to excuse Thibs love affair with Randle. Now we have a "pitch count". Nolad I know you introduced the term to this thread but I am not talking about you. Obi never even gets enough minutes to know if he has a pitch count. Obi has never and will never receive a fair shake as long as Thibs and Randle are on the team. Oh yea, Obi's defense is better than Randle so throw out that excuse. Shooting 75% and the team was cruising but because of some mythical pitch count lets take him out of the game for the guy who always messes up the offense with his ISO's and the defense with his bad D.
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/KnicksMuse/status/1592715217011503104
Click here to view the Tweet
Rule number one on fast breaks is a pass goes faster than someone running. Randle does not pass but instead runs in the middle of defenders when he has Cam open on the left. Bad basketball play that would have gotten Obi benched but he is immune to accountability.
Uptown wrote:I cant disagree. Is it possible an outlier season from Randle forged an unhealthy bond in a COY/MIP combo season and now the Knicks are best moving on? Its very possible. I think how this year plays out tells us a ton about a ton.fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:the problem is even when he sucks Randle plays tough and throws elbows and is physical. The reason Thibs doesnt trust Obi late is his rebounding and defense. The same things that get IQ crunch time minutes when he's hot or someone else is sucking.Nalod wrote:Does obi have like a “pitch count” were he plays certain minutes then his play drops off?
NBA teams track movement and other analytics. I too fell asleep on this game. Used to be able snooze during a quarter but now I just fall out for the rest of the game and few hours too!
Im not defending Thibs here but just trying to understand if he wants to win, and Obi playing good, the reasoning to take him out?He's had a pitch count since last year...And it doesn't matter if his play drops off or not, he is coming out of the game at the 7th or 6 min mark of the 4th. I think it less about Obi and more about coddling Randle. RJ got benched most of the 2nd half of last game for playing poorly. Randle had a handful of games like that last year and was never benched the way RJ was.
Everyone here that says Thibs coddles Randle is right. It sucks, and its not a good dynamic when you see it play out. The problem is Randle brings something nobody else on the roster does and its vital in this league. Its why Curry and Klay dont win without Draymond. You need the dirty physical play he brings. Mitch flails. Hart is too nice but tries. I think Cam has it and its why he's moving up in the Thibs totem pole. I can see Cam developing a Bruce Bowen/Marcus Smart bag a nasty tricks.
You guys are right on the Thibs/Randle stuff. I do think Thibs is a good coach and get his conundrum.
Also consider we are not privy to the development. Thibs is also talking all the time about what they see in practice. So for the crew dying to jettison Thibs to play the youth, keep in mind that youth was developed under this coaching staff.
IQ might have been the best player on the floor last night. It look like Cam has won the starting job... I mean we started with Thibs is a win now coach to year 3 seeing some pretty good developments with young players. I guess we will see, its early
Thats probably part of the problem he has with Obi....but, if we are strictly talking about last night, it didn't make any sense to pull Obi, especially if we take Thibs at his words the other night. Evan played the entire 4th while RJ rotted on the bench. Thibs reply was that he liked what he saw in that line-up which was Thibs way of justifying giving Evan extended minutes.
The 4th quarter lineup last night with Obi was playing some of the best ball we have seen in a while...why doesn't that same logic apply to Obi?
Honestly, I think the cohesion of this team and the coaching will improve if and when we can move Randle. Not saying we will necessarily win more games without Randle (not that he makes that much a of a difference) but I think moving Randle will allow Brunson to be the unquestioned number 1 option, it will separate RJ and Randle which I think is a bad fit, and giving Obi more minutes will quicken the pace and honestly, also, think it will help Thibs. We will also be more enjoyable to watch...
I dont think Thibs or our FO are nearly as attached to Randle as people think, but there isnt a more important player to keep happy right now. Like it or not the Knicks team needs a functioning Randle and the Knicks FO needs a functioning Randle. Dont ask the FO to find a trade for a miserable guy with $80mm left after this year.
Obi isnt going anywhere and 17 minutes a game isnt stifling his development. He and IQ fighting for every extra rotation minute only helps us. They are looking better and better all the time
Assuming Thibs and the FO are on the same page (I believe they are) they are allowed something fans are not... patience. IF Thib's treatment of Randle becomes a locker room issue it will be the first test for this FO. Does Brunson Sr leak stuff to Leon and Thibs get jettisoned? Or are they all playing chess and seeing what players work together while keeping Randle's value somewhere around reasonable and above toxic.
Jimbo5 wrote:Its a sharp fall from Thibs' grace for Fournier, from a starter to off the bench to glued to the bench. When will trade rumors start for Evan? Will he ever request for a trade? Im happy Cam is finally making his mark for the knicks. Its good that Thibs sees his defense as an important part for the team's gameplan so even if he has an off night offensively, he could still continue to find minutes.It's starting to be apparent that the knicks will be better off finding a solution to the Randle-obi problem as well as the Fournier-Grimes and Cam logjam.
Ideally both Randle and fournier are wearing a different uniform after the trade deadline, the knicks wont necessarily be a better team but they could potentially be fun to watch.
I don't think the trade rumors for EF ever stopped. The question is, are there any takers? Nobody is rushing to add EF to their team, unless the knicks get desperate and start having a fire sale, which I'm sure most teams are waiting for. For example, the Randle to Miami rumors started after our bad lost to OKC.
Knicks have always been under this microscope.
Cam is our most flexible 1 on 1 defenders on the team. He can guard 1-4 and relieves RJ from killing himself against the top wings. Thats Cams job now.
blkexec wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:Its a sharp fall from Thibs' grace for Fournier, from a starter to off the bench to glued to the bench. When will trade rumors start for Evan? Will he ever request for a trade? Im happy Cam is finally making his mark for the knicks. Its good that Thibs sees his defense as an important part for the team's gameplan so even if he has an off night offensively, he could still continue to find minutes.It's starting to be apparent that the knicks will be better off finding a solution to the Randle-obi problem as well as the Fournier-Grimes and Cam logjam.
Ideally both Randle and fournier are wearing a different uniform after the trade deadline, the knicks wont necessarily be a better team but they could potentially be fun to watch.
I don't think the trade rumors for EF ever stopped. The question is, are there any takers? Nobody is rushing to add EF to their team, unless the knicks get desperate and start having a fire sale, which I'm sure most teams are waiting for. For example, the Randle to Miami rumors started after our bad lost to OKC.
Knicks have always been under this microscope.
Cam is our most flexible 1 on 1 defenders on the team. He can guard 1-4 and relieves RJ from
killing himselfmaking him look like a fool against the top wings. Thats Cams job now.
fixed
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/KnicksMSGN/status/1592932313985617920
Click here to view the Tweet
Clean wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/KnicksMSGN/status/1592932313985617920
Click here to view the Tweet
Ah, I say see if we can get Knox and the #2s back.
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/Tom_Piccolo/status/1593034145177161728?s=20&t=MTiz5-4fj9iKrKRQkFEOvg
Click here to view the Tweet