It’s really a shame that Fournier has played himself off the floor defensively, because his skill set is sorely needed. Grimes hopefully becomes that guy but he’s not there yet. Someone needs to be the shooting domino that gets the rest of the team rolling, and ideally you have 2 of those guys. Guys like Barrett, Randle, Brunson, Reddish, Quickley and Toppin are all streaky outside shooters who need the momentum of shooting around them. So the team needs to find a guy who can really shoot it without playing himself off the floor defensively when it matters. Bullock and Burks were both that and have never been replaced. Knicks no longer have low maintenance 3&D help, other than grimes which is still theoretical. Those guys aren’t easy to find but are always out there. I’ve suggested Turner as a center alternative option to help with shooting but he’s adding another streak shooter and not really offsetting the problem. If we have shooters who can stay on the floor, we win the last 2 games. But we are at the basement with lakers when it comes to shooting from the outside.
Knicks may have either 2 or 3 first round picks in the 10-18 range this year and maybe they can address the problem, although it’s not easy with rookies. Gradey Dick and Jett Howard are the 2 purest shooters in the draft at this point and will both be available in that range most likely, but can either of them provide major minutes as a rookie? Kel’el Ware is a 3&D center in the Turner mold. But these are more long term fixes as opposed to finding a way to solve now. I think the Knicks screwed up not grabbing Jerami grant this summer when he was cheap. The Knicks have a lot of issues defensively and with inconsistent play from anyone not named Jalen Brunson, but for me the shooting is more frustrating because it prevents any type of real momentum to win these types of games.
bad shooting is also especially contagious.
We need IQ, RJ, Randle and Obi to start shooting better.
That, or you have to find a trade out there to send some guys/minutes out and get back someone better able to produce.
I've mused that if GS ever looked to retool, Klay Thompson might be a player that could help a young squad like ours.
But I think we have to see improvement from within.
team lays bricks... I can literally hear every open look rim clang every time I read on this forum "we have coaching problem..." or "if only Thibs..."
If only this team could hit some phucking baskets they would be pretty good. As you can see they are quite mediocre. However Franco's hopes are not lost as it's a young squad and there can still be significant improvement from most of the rotation.
The clangs are hard to watch/hear. Open looks. Quality shots. clang clang clang... like this guy
I know shooting a lot of threes is the new NBA (which I hate!!) but shouldn't we dial it back a little and stop hunting that shot? We're clearly not good at it so why waste possessions taking them? We're currently 10th in the league in attempts!
I wonder if this coaching staff is doing anything to help improve the three point shooting. They should be researching and looking at every avenue to find something to improve. Maybe new drills, new ways of practice, something. Whatever they are doing is clearly not working.
SergioNYK wrote:I know shooting a lot of threes is the new NBA (which I hate!!) but shouldn't we dial it back a little and stop hunting that shot? We're clearly not good at it so why waste possessions taking them? We're currently 10th in the league in attempts!
But if you can’t knock them down than teams just play zone and that’s it. Knicks need to start making threes. That’s the only answer. Can’t stop shooting them, even in the slightest. Either need the current players to make them or add someone who can. If one guy starts knocking them down at a high volume than I think it will have a domino effect across the roster
I don’t want to turn this into a trade Randle thread but another option would be bojan bogdanovic from Detroit who is on the market and an elite shooter. He’s playing mostly PF these days and while he’s an older player, he opens up the floor for Brunson and Barrett and can provide more Toppin opportunities due to him shifting between PF and SF. He’s probably a neutral defensive liability as Randle is, but offers a better fit. Randle and a pick from another team for bogdanovic. Just thinking about another avenue.
Knixkik wrote:I don’t want to turn this into a trade Randle thread but another option would be bojan bogdanovic from Detroit who is on the market and an elite shooter. He’s playing mostly PF these days and while he’s an older player, he opens up the floor for Brunson and Barrett and can provide more Toppin opportunities due to him shifting between PF and SF. He’s probably a neutral defensive liability as Randle is, but offers a better fit. Randle and a pick from another team for bogdanovic. Just thinking about another avenue.
I'd love to get him - he would help tremendously - but I don't think our FO is giving up on Randle.
How about we trade Obi and Fournier for him? I love Obi, but to have a veteran shooter out there would be great to have.
Knixkik wrote:I don’t want to turn this into a trade Randle thread but another option would be bojan bogdanovic from Detroit who is on the market and an elite shooter. He’s playing mostly PF these days and while he’s an older player, he opens up the floor for Brunson and Barrett and can provide more Toppin opportunities due to him shifting between PF and SF. He’s probably a neutral defensive liability as Randle is, but offers a better fit. Randle and a pick from another team for bogdanovic. Just thinking about another avenue.
we literally have that guy on the bench... its Evan Fournier
franco12 wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don’t want to turn this into a trade Randle thread but another option would be bojan bogdanovic from Detroit who is on the market and an elite shooter. He’s playing mostly PF these days and while he’s an older player, he opens up the floor for Brunson and Barrett and can provide more Toppin opportunities due to him shifting between PF and SF. He’s probably a neutral defensive liability as Randle is, but offers a better fit. Randle and a pick from another team for bogdanovic. Just thinking about another avenue.
I'd love to get him - he would help tremendously - but I don't think our FO is giving up on Randle.
How about we trade Obi and Fournier for him? I love Obi, but to have a veteran shooter out there would be great to have.
I would think they would want to give up Randle before Toppin.
Knicks have a good working relationship with the pistons so I’m sure they would happily take more picks from the Knicks.
fishmike wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don’t want to turn this into a trade Randle thread but another option would be bojan bogdanovic from Detroit who is on the market and an elite shooter. He’s playing mostly PF these days and while he’s an older player, he opens up the floor for Brunson and Barrett and can provide more Toppin opportunities due to him shifting between PF and SF. He’s probably a neutral defensive liability as Randle is, but offers a better fit. Randle and a pick from another team for bogdanovic. Just thinking about another avenue.
we literally have that guy on the bench... its Evan Fournier
Fournier has never been anywhere near the ability of bojan. Bojan has been a consistent 20 ppg scorer on a playoff team.
Knixkik wrote:fishmike wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don’t want to turn this into a trade Randle thread but another option would be bojan bogdanovic from Detroit who is on the market and an elite shooter. He’s playing mostly PF these days and while he’s an older player, he opens up the floor for Brunson and Barrett and can provide more Toppin opportunities due to him shifting between PF and SF. He’s probably a neutral defensive liability as Randle is, but offers a better fit. Randle and a pick from another team for bogdanovic. Just thinking about another avenue.
we literally have that guy on the bench... its Evan Fournier
Fournier has never been anywhere near the ability of bojan. Bojan has been a consistent 20 ppg scorer on a playoff team.
https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Boj...
Evan came in at age 19. Bojan age 25.
If you look at Years of service figures its closer than one would think.
We tend to shit on our own and glorify others.
Its really a decent concept but im not trading for 33 year old Bojan who is putting up these numbers ona shitty team. He would look good on our second unit, but there is OBI.
Bojan was impressive when he broke in with the nets!
When Thibs first joined the teamed everyone's shooting improved simply by taking poor shots less often
yes they can work on their shooting and we all remember the Randle mimics Kobe stories. But first step is don't take stupid shots.
right now i think there are a ton of guys playing tight with RJ being exhibit A. He needs to throttle back from his current jack-it-up-rate until he starts hitting them more consistently. He's playing very selfishly. The opponents are obviously daring him to shoot those and sagging off so it's a tough nut to crack
That said, when he's stinking up the joint Thibs needs to consider EF, the Russian guy or whoever else because the opponent is packing it in
fishmike wrote:team lays bricks... I can literally hear every open look rim clang every time I read on this forum "we have coaching problem..." or "if only Thibs..."If only this team could hit some phucking baskets they would be pretty good. As you can see they are quite mediocre. However Franco's hopes are not lost as it's a young squad and there can still be significant improvement from most of the rotation.
The clangs are hard to watch/hear. Open looks. Quality shots. clang clang clang... like this guy
Pretty much. We've been competitive in almost all our games but our horrible shooting keeps letting us down.
Chandler wrote:When Thibs first joined the teamed everyone's shooting improved simply by taking poor shots less oftenyes they can work on their shooting and we all remember the Randle mimics Kobe stories. But first step is don't take stupid shots.
right now i think there are a ton of guys playing tight with RJ being exhibit A. He needs to throttle back from his current jack-it-up-rate until he starts hitting them more consistently. He's playing very selfishly. The opponents are obviously daring him to shoot those and sagging off so it's a tough nut to crack
That said, when he's stinking up the joint Thibs needs to consider EF, the Russian guy or whoever else because the opponent is packing it in
I don't even think its a shot selection issue. these guys just miss.
Nalod wrote:Knixkik wrote:fishmike wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don’t want to turn this into a trade Randle thread but another option would be bojan bogdanovic from Detroit who is on the market and an elite shooter. He’s playing mostly PF these days and while he’s an older player, he opens up the floor for Brunson and Barrett and can provide more Toppin opportunities due to him shifting between PF and SF. He’s probably a neutral defensive liability as Randle is, but offers a better fit. Randle and a pick from another team for bogdanovic. Just thinking about another avenue.
we literally have that guy on the bench... its Evan Fournier
Fournier has never been anywhere near the ability of bojan. Bojan has been a consistent 20 ppg scorer on a playoff team.
https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Boj...
Evan came in at age 19. Bojan age 25.
If you look at Years of service figures its closer than one would think.
We tend to shit on our own and glorify others.
Its really a decent concept but im not trading for 33 year old Bojan who is putting up these numbers ona shitty team. He would look good on our second unit, but there is OBI.
Bojan was impressive when he broke in with the nets!
I'm trading Obi out- so replacing Obi with Bogdanovic. And if EF were a big that could play C or PF, I'd be happy.
To put these horrible numbers into perspective. We are 2nd to last in the league in wide open 3pt shots( 34.3%). We are average in terms of attempts: 16.2 attempts which puts us at 15th. That is a fucking abomination.
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shots-cl...
To make matters worse we actually create the 4th most open 3pts a game.(I think there is overalap in nba classification for open and wide open)
franco12 wrote:Nalod wrote:Knixkik wrote:fishmike wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don’t want to turn this into a trade Randle thread but another option would be bojan bogdanovic from Detroit who is on the market and an elite shooter. He’s playing mostly PF these days and while he’s an older player, he opens up the floor for Brunson and Barrett and can provide more Toppin opportunities due to him shifting between PF and SF. He’s probably a neutral defensive liability as Randle is, but offers a better fit. Randle and a pick from another team for bogdanovic. Just thinking about another avenue.
we literally have that guy on the bench... its Evan Fournier
Fournier has never been anywhere near the ability of bojan. Bojan has been a consistent 20 ppg scorer on a playoff team.
https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Boj...
Evan came in at age 19. Bojan age 25.
If you look at Years of service figures its closer than one would think.
We tend to shit on our own and glorify others.
Its really a decent concept but im not trading for 33 year old Bojan who is putting up these numbers ona shitty team. He would look good on our second unit, but there is OBI.
Bojan was impressive when he broke in with the nets!
I'm trading Obi out- so replacing Obi with Bogdanovic. And if EF were a big that could play C or PF, I'd be happy.
great... trading 23 year olds for 33 year olds has worked well in the past
fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:Nalod wrote:Knixkik wrote:fishmike wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don’t want to turn this into a trade Randle thread but another option would be bojan bogdanovic from Detroit who is on the market and an elite shooter. He’s playing mostly PF these days and while he’s an older player, he opens up the floor for Brunson and Barrett and can provide more Toppin opportunities due to him shifting between PF and SF. He’s probably a neutral defensive liability as Randle is, but offers a better fit. Randle and a pick from another team for bogdanovic. Just thinking about another avenue.
we literally have that guy on the bench... its Evan Fournier
Fournier has never been anywhere near the ability of bojan. Bojan has been a consistent 20 ppg scorer on a playoff team.
https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Boj...
Evan came in at age 19. Bojan age 25.
If you look at Years of service figures its closer than one would think.
We tend to shit on our own and glorify others.
Its really a decent concept but im not trading for 33 year old Bojan who is putting up these numbers ona shitty team. He would look good on our second unit, but there is OBI.
Bojan was impressive when he broke in with the nets!
I'm trading Obi out- so replacing Obi with Bogdanovic. And if EF were a big that could play C or PF, I'd be happy.
great... trading 23 year olds for 33 year olds has worked well in the past
I don't know - I would love to add a solid shooter like Bogdanovic. Someone has to go. I like Obi a lot. But will he go on to have a career or does he end up like Kevin Knox?
We do have enough youth. Obi is only getting 17 minutes.
The bigger question is can Thibs play a Bogdanovic if you add him to the roster? Because simply giving him 17 minutes would be a disservice.
Knicks are 30th in 3 pointers made. Yeah, we need shooting.
