BRIGGS wrote:martin wrote:Hart is seeing his NBA chance evaporate. Dude has got to do better.
I might’ve put up better shots than hartenstein and I’m 54 with Parkinson’s. 3 foot shots that were 5 feet off.
I’d rather use simms and also let the fo go out and get us a fiesta tough bet for the bench who can make a few plays.
Lol. Yeah. Sims wouldn’t have shot much better but would have played better defense.
Kemet wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:
I have to tell you, I’m not even worried about these types of losses. These are growth losses
N0-NO .. Randle playing the entire first quarter and 3rd quarter in each of those games gave a tired exhausted Randle in the 4th quarter missing FT and consecutive turnovers for a Knicks loss.
Tonight, Randle collapsed in the 3rd quarter after playing 28 minutes committing two consecutive turnovers, Randle shouldve been yanked off the court for Obi Toppin to play the final 4 minutes when the Knicks had a 14 point lead. Letting Randle stay on court to play the final 4 minutes of the 3rd quarter let the Bucks go on 18-8 run to end the quarter. Giving the Bucks confidence to outscore the Knicks in the 4th quarter 38-29.
Having Randle on the court going down the stretch the final 5 minutes of the game was a nightmare of Randle still thinking only Randle & Barrett (now Bronson) are supposed to do all the scoring going down the stretch. Brunson came through scoring the Knicks final 15 points. Quickley was hot all game but wasn't given the ball to take a shot the final 7 min of the game.
The Knicks bench players were never included in the Knicks offense tonight.
He didn’t play either this game. Thibs matched Randle to Giannis nearly perfectly. Randle was in Giannis space all night. Guy couldn’t scratch his ear without Randle bodying him up. Randle shot horribly but nearly won the game single-handedly with his defense on Giannis. Giannis looked so uncomfortable. He muscled through it in the second half with a little help from the refs. But I wouldn’t give Randle a hard time. He had a poor shooting night but shit down the best player in the league.
EwingsGlass wrote:BRIGGS wrote:martin wrote:Hart is seeing his NBA chance evaporate. Dude has got to do better.
I might;ve put up better shots than hartenstein and Im 54 with Parkinson;s. 3 foot shots that were 5 feet off.Id rather use simms and also let the fo go out and get us a fiesta tough bet for the bench who can make a few plays.
Lol. Yeah. Sims wouldn;t have shot much better but would have played better defense.
We needed *some* kind of offense out of the C position tonight. Got basically zero.
EwingsGlass wrote:Kemet wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:
I have to tell you, I’m not even worried about these types of losses. These are growth losses
N0-NO .. Randle playing the entire first quarter and 3rd quarter in each of those games gave a tired exhausted Randle in the 4th quarter missing FT and consecutive turnovers for a Knicks loss.
Tonight, Randle collapsed in the 3rd quarter after playing 28 minutes committing two consecutive turnovers, Randle shouldve been yanked off the court for Obi Toppin to play the final 4 minutes when the Knicks had a 14 point lead. Letting Randle stay on court to play the final 4 minutes of the 3rd quarter let the Bucks go on 18-8 run to end the quarter. Giving the Bucks confidence to outscore the Knicks in the 4th quarter 38-29.
Having Randle on the court going down the stretch the final 5 minutes of the game was a nightmare of Randle still thinking only Randle & Barrett (now Bronson) are supposed to do all the scoring going down the stretch. Brunson came through scoring the Knicks final 15 points. Quickley was hot all game but wasn't given the ball to take a shot the final 7 min of the game.
The Knicks bench players were never included in the Knicks offense tonight.
He didn’t play either this game. Thibs matched Randle to Giannis nearly perfectly. Randle was in Giannis space all night. Guy couldn’t scratch his ear without Randle bodying him up. Randle shot horribly but nearly won the game single-handedly with his defense on Giannis. Giannis looked so uncomfortable. He muscled through it in the second half with a little help from the refs. But I wouldn’t give Randle a hard time. He had a poor shooting night but shit down the best player in the league.
Just because you shut down the best player, doesn’t give you the green light to keep jacking when clearly your shot was off from the jump. Randle also had some crunch time blunders on offense. It’s like when the 4th quarter comes Randle is done. We need Brunson and RJ to take over. Randle was off from the start.
But again, Randle is a shooter who thinks his jumper is always money. And he will keep shooting until he sees one fall. I thought he should’ve switched to bully ball just to see one go in (instead of jacking 3s).
The coach needs to intervene more and provide some in game assistance. I’ve seen other coaches pull their star player and have them sit for a little while to calm down.l and clear their head. Randle was jacked up during the start and according to Clyde, he was hitting everything in pre game warmups then just bricked all his shots when the game started (I’ve been there). That’s a sign when someone needs to settle down mentally. I would’ve pulled Randle and told his whisperer to work overtime today.
But champs find a way to win. So not a bad loss but definitely another winnable game and blown down double digit leads. These types of games are adding up. Hope it’s not a sign for what’s to come in the playoffs. But with a healthy RJ we probably win this game.
Randle's minutes per game on the season isn't bad, but lately, if you look at the break outs by month, Randle is getting up there and he is human, he may be above average human and the minutes are going to catch up with him. Same for Brunson. And my criticism of Thibs is burning guys out to get to the play offs, and then having nothing left in the tank.
Looking at the box score - we basically had three guys step up big, and a lot of very little from every one else.
Grimes? McBride? Maybe we win with RJ. Hope to get him back soon.
blkexec wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Kemet wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:
I have to tell you, I’m not even worried about these types of losses. These are growth losses
N0-NO .. Randle playing the entire first quarter and 3rd quarter in each of those games gave a tired exhausted Randle in the 4th quarter missing FT and consecutive turnovers for a Knicks loss.
Tonight, Randle collapsed in the 3rd quarter after playing 28 minutes committing two consecutive turnovers, Randle shouldve been yanked off the court for Obi Toppin to play the final 4 minutes when the Knicks had a 14 point lead. Letting Randle stay on court to play the final 4 minutes of the 3rd quarter let the Bucks go on 18-8 run to end the quarter. Giving the Bucks confidence to outscore the Knicks in the 4th quarter 38-29.
Having Randle on the court going down the stretch the final 5 minutes of the game was a nightmare of Randle still thinking only Randle & Barrett (now Bronson) are supposed to do all the scoring going down the stretch. Brunson came through scoring the Knicks final 15 points. Quickley was hot all game but wasn't given the ball to take a shot the final 7 min of the game.
The Knicks bench players were never included in the Knicks offense tonight.
He didn’t play either this game. Thibs matched Randle to Giannis nearly perfectly. Randle was in Giannis space all night. Guy couldn’t scratch his ear without Randle bodying him up. Randle shot horribly but nearly won the game single-handedly with his defense on Giannis. Giannis looked so uncomfortable. He muscled through it in the second half with a little help from the refs. But I wouldn’t give Randle a hard time. He had a poor shooting night but shit down the best player in the league.
Just because you shut down the best player, doesn’t give you the green light to keep jacking when clearly your shot was off from the jump. Randle also had some crunch time blunders on offense. It’s like when the 4th quarter comes Randle is done. We need Brunson and RJ to take over. Randle was off from the start.
But again, Randle is a shooter who thinks his jumper is always money. And he will keep shooting until he sees one fall. I thought he should’ve switched to bully ball just to see one go in (instead of jacking 3s).
The coach needs to intervene more and provide some in game assistance. I’ve seen other coaches pull their star player and have them sit for a little while to calm down.l and clear their head. Randle was jacked up during the start and according to Clyde, he was hitting everything in pre game warmups then just bricked all his shots when the game started (I’ve been there). That’s a sign when someone needs to settle down mentally. I would’ve pulled Randle and told his whisperer to work overtime today.
But champs find a way to win. So not a bad loss but definitely another winnable game and blown down double digit leads. These types of games are adding up. Hope it’s not a sign for what’s to come in the playoffs. But with a healthy RJ we probably win this game.
Agree, was thinking the same thing. Why not sit Randle for a spell?
Randle has been in the league for a while. Its hard for me to believe that he is going to start being consistently 4th quarter clutch at this stage in his career. In the regular season, and the playoffs.
I hope he proves me wrong, but Im having trouble seeing that happening.
Oh, I thought this was a good summary:
https://nypost.com/2023/01/10/knicks-wil...
They are just good enough to anger you. They are just good enough to annoy you. They are just good enough to Michael Corleone you — just when you think you’re out, they drag you back in. Again and again and again.And just good enough to make you throw up your arms in aggravation as you tear up your ticket stubs — OK, nobody has ticket stubs anymore, but you’d rip ’em up if you had ’em — as you walk out of Madison Square Garden and head for your train.
They are your New York Knicks at the halfway point of this 2022-23 basketball season, a team that is 22-19, a team that is defined almost entirely by this excruciating 111-107 loss to the Bucks Monday night at the Garden.
Another disappointing loss we could have and should have won. Considering how we held Giannis in check for he most part. It's getting annoying how we keep losing these big leads. That's now 4-5 games now. Not sure what the solution is either. It's likely just a product of being a middle of the pack team.
Feel bad for Brunson. Surpassed another career high with 44 points. He was just unstoppable and kept us in the game in the first and fourth. If he isn't named an All-Star, we riot.
Weird game by Randle. He's been on such a tear that seeing him struggle to make shots was surprising. I'm glad he didn't let the bad shooting effect his overall effort and game. He played some great defense on Giannis. Another strong game by IQ. Was awesome in that second quarter.
Can't blame any one player in particular but it's a team loss. The defense in the fourth quarter was awful. Too much help leading to 7 open threes. Culprits were mainly Fournier (holy shit he sucks!) and Robinson. Give the Bucks credit. That's a seasoned former Champion that just knows how to turn it up and make clutch plays. Especially Holiday. Made 3 clutch threes there at the end.
Win steaks here, losing streaks there, this team needs a trade to get to that next level. Right now it's a middle of the pack team that's going to continue to give up leads and lose these same type of games.
martin wrote:
Ouch. Thats not good. Mitch not being able to create makes it worse. We gotta add a big who can get buckets in the paint.
Comparing Quickley at PG and SG, is starting to feel like left Twix, right Twix. He's figuring things out at both position.
SergioNYK wrote:Another disappointing loss we could have and should have won. Considering how we held Giannis in check for he most part. It's getting annoying how we keep losing these big leads. That's now 4-5 games now. Not sure what the solution is either. It's likely just a product of being a middle of the pack team. Feel bad for Brunson. Surpassed another career high with 44 points. He was just unstoppable and kept us in the game in the first and fourth. If he isn't named an All-Star, we riot.
Weird game by Randle. He's been on such a tear that seeing him struggle to make shots was surprising. I'm glad he didn't let the bad shooting effect his overall effort and game. He played some great defense on Giannis. Another strong game by IQ. Was awesome in that second quarter.
Can't blame any one player in particular but it's a team loss. The defense in the fourth quarter was awful. Too much help leading to 7 open threes. Culprits were mainly Fournier (holy shit he sucks!) and Robinson. Give the Bucks credit. That's a seasoned former Champion that just knows how to turn it up and make clutch plays. Especially Holiday. Made 3 clutch threes there at the end.
Win steaks here, losing streaks there, this team needs a trade to get to that next level. Right now it's a middle of the pack team that's going to continue to give up leads and lose these same type of games.
Middle of the pack is great. We were expecting a lottery team. Let's just keep getting better. Sure make a trade if possible. But let's see if RJ and IQ continue to improve and not counting Grimes off season will likely be the time for a trade
Alpha1971 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:Another disappointing loss we could have and should have won. Considering how we held Giannis in check for he most part. It's getting annoying how we keep losing these big leads. That's now 4-5 games now. Not sure what the solution is either. It's likely just a product of being a middle of the pack team. Feel bad for Brunson. Surpassed another career high with 44 points. He was just unstoppable and kept us in the game in the first and fourth. If he isn't named an All-Star, we riot.
Weird game by Randle. He's been on such a tear that seeing him struggle to make shots was surprising. I'm glad he didn't let the bad shooting effect his overall effort and game. He played some great defense on Giannis. Another strong game by IQ. Was awesome in that second quarter.
Can't blame any one player in particular but it's a team loss. The defense in the fourth quarter was awful. Too much help leading to 7 open threes. Culprits were mainly Fournier (holy shit he sucks!) and Robinson. Give the Bucks credit. That's a seasoned former Champion that just knows how to turn it up and make clutch plays. Especially Holiday. Made 3 clutch threes there at the end.
Win steaks here, losing streaks there, this team needs a trade to get to that next level. Right now it's a middle of the pack team that's going to continue to give up leads and lose these same type of games.
Middle of the pack is great. We were expecting a lottery team. Let's just keep getting better. Sure make a trade if possible. But let's see if RJ and IQ continue to improve and not counting Grimes off season will likely be the time for a trade
Vegas and everyone here expected a middle of the pack .500 team. We are 22-19 at the midway point so that's 44 wins. This team has not surpassed expectations. They are playing exactly how most expected. Maybe a little better considering how Brunson and Randle have looked.
I thought a good summary by Hahn
martin wrote:This game clearly shows why Randle is a solid #2 or more realistically a #3 on a very good team IMHO. He just doesn’t have that killer, clutch sense about him. He is more workhorse type dude. RJ probably same but not as talented.
I think Randle also doesn't have the offensive repertoire that he needs to go one on one especially late in a game. His offense is better suited to get during the flow of a game. Randles isolation offense is plain ugly.
Knicks 3 pt defense was terrible again especially in the 4th quarter. Just way too many wide open 3s given up.
BigRedDog wrote:martin wrote:This game clearly shows why Randle is a solid #2 or more realistically a #3 on a very good team IMHO. He just doesn’t have that killer, clutch sense about him. He is more workhorse type dude. RJ probably same but not as talented.
I think Randle also doesn't have the offensive repertoire that he needs to go one on one especially late in a game. His offense is better suited to get during the flow of a game. Randles isolation offense is plain ugly.
YES
Having a guy like Brunson on team has taken ball out of Randle's/RJ's hands, super good thing.
Need one more guy to be a bigger Alpha to remove the ISO Randle at critical junctures.
martin wrote:
Disappointing loss. Another big lead against top team lost. Think they just have to win a couple of those to believe they are capable of beating the top teams. Think they are.
Awesome game by JB. Probably our best FA signing in a long long time. Kid is clutch. We need a couple more with the same ice in their veins.
Randle was great on defense but horrible on offense. Understand the need to keep Greek out of middle by hitting some threes but just way too many. As I have said many times before. Especially when he is off. You take out all those forced threes and he had a solid shooting percentage. If he instead gets IQ and Grimes those threes, we win. Next level for him is to have that type of bball IQ that gets the ball to the right guy and puts team need above all. He also seemed afraid to take a shot at the end. Different player on the road.
Overall, the Bucks showed what a chip team looks like. They have several players that can hit threes in big moments. We have one. They also moved the ball MORE when down and in big moments. We move the ball less when pressure is on. Hopefully, guys are learning.
martin wrote:BigRedDog wrote:martin wrote:This game clearly shows why Randle is a solid #2 or more realistically a #3 on a very good team IMHO. He just doesn’t have that killer, clutch sense about him. He is more workhorse type dude. RJ probably same but not as talented.
I think Randle also doesn't have the offensive repertoire that he needs to go one on one especially late in a game. His offense is better suited to get during the flow of a game. Randles isolation offense is plain ugly.
YES
Having a guy like Brunson on team has taken ball out of Randle's/RJ's hands, super good thing.
Need one more guy to be a bigger Alpha to remove the ISO Randle at critical junctures.
Wow, that was "heresy" a few days ago lol. Ive maintained that its going to be hard to do without moving Randle. Not impossible, but difficult. Would have to be through some clever cap mgmt, I imagine.
Respectfully disagree with both of you on this one. When Randle is in the zone. Which I mean to be that he's pitch perfect with his shot selection. Not necesarily hitting them all. He's one of the best scorers in the league. Which I believe he became when he cut out the "spinovers" (credit to crush for that one) and became a threat from everywhere.
The only difference I see in the 4th quarter too often, is that Randle looks flustered. Ive havent doubted Randle's skills, except one. Being a consistent 4th quarter threat.
Delivering in crunch time would be great. But I'd be happy as a fan to see more 4th quarter scoring. Not necessarily in crunch time. To keep us from going to crunch time.
Sure it was disappointing to lose the game but i saw a lot of good things last night including our potential on full display.
i continue to think we're one player away -- not a star, but a robert horry, mario elle type
they had Joe Ingles hitting big shots (he was the difference last night pulling them out of a huge deficit with Giannis on the bench); we trotted our Evan.
As much as I'd like to think EF could be the guy we trot out when we need to hit some threes/big shots -- he's not that guy; he's not that guy
we need a cold-blooded dead eye off the bench
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:BigRedDog wrote:martin wrote:This game clearly shows why Randle is a solid #2 or more realistically a #3 on a very good team IMHO. He just doesn’t have that killer, clutch sense about him. He is more workhorse type dude. RJ probably same but not as talented.
I think Randle also doesn't have the offensive repertoire that he needs to go one on one especially late in a game. His offense is better suited to get during the flow of a game. Randles isolation offense is plain ugly.
YES
Having a guy like Brunson on team has taken ball out of Randle's/RJ's hands, super good thing.
Need one more guy to be a bigger Alpha to remove the ISO Randle at critical junctures.
Wow, that was "heresy" a few days ago lol. Ive maintained that its going to be hard to do without moving Randle. Not impossible, but difficult. Would have to be through some clever cap mgmt, I imagine.
Respectfully disagree with both of you on this one. When Randle is in the zone. Which I mean to be that he's pitch perfect with his shot selection. Not necesarily hitting them all. He's one of the best scorers in the league. Which I believe he became when he cut out the "spinovers" (credit to crush for that one) and became a threat from everywhere.
The only difference I see in the 4th quarter too often, is that Randle looks flustered. Ive havent doubted Randle's skills, except one. Being a consistent 4th quarter threat.
Delivering in crunch time would be great. But I'd be happy as a fan to see more 4th quarter scoring. Not necessarily in crunch time. To keep us from going to crunch time.
I guess I don't understand what you are disagreeing with.
Is it your supposition that Randle is good enough to be a closer on a high level team?
Cause that's the level I'm referring to.
