No doubt iq will command 25-30 mm per imho.
martin wrote:Fire Thibs or unfollow Berman? Or both for good measure?
Before these 38 and 40 point explosions by IQ, it was a head scratcher to start a SG/SF over IQ (or Deuce) who were the only 2 healthy PGs on the roster at the time. Then once we realized, we were not very good and even making the playin (My history in the last few years might be incorrect, but thats not my point) we would've lost or got swepted. So Thibs had another chance to play IQ towards the end of the season, but instead Burks mins only increased at PG. I'm a burks fan so I don't mind him getting all the minutes, we needed his 2 way impact. But at PG? Head scratcher and why I started to lose faith in Thibs youth development (in that moment).
Fast Forward to Thibs now, he's course corrected himself and made all the necessary roster adjustments I complained about (play the yoots threads), so my complaints are now water under the bridge. But every time IQ has a great game like 40 and 9 yesterday will naturally spark up this conversation again. That comes with the territory of being a coach who's scheme is based on a 9 man rotation. I'm still against this 9 man approach (during the regular season), eventhough as a team, our record was better. But a 9 man rotation seems more like a playoff strategy to me. 10 man (or more) reduces wear and tear, so that your players will be less fatigue going into the playoffs. We have a team of over achievers, no superstars. But what do I know. I'm just a noname fan, coaching from my armchair, flicking the remote. 
EwingsGlass wrote:I know I will catch hell for this, but does IQ deserve the starting position over Brunson? I mean, IQ is the two way player. Doesn't have to be this year or next, but when looking at lineups, would IQ's added length and defense be better for the team overall? I can honestly see IQ being starting point guard on a championship Knicks team.
I look at IQ and see a guy who can score like Brunson, but also be a better defender than Brunson and yes they play the same position. He's got a ways to go obviously but the signs are all there. IQ is getting down that Brunson footwork and handle and it translates to easy high % shots and breaking down defenses slowly and methodically.
Hey... remember you thought we were resigning cheap? This is a wonderful "problem" to have. We can keep him and just enjoy what he does and be happy we have him. We could also do what Sac did with Haliburton and flip him for big piece... like that big wing (who's actually really good).
Personally the more I watch him the more I see a "build around" player. I am inclined to (next year) move to starting SG and assume he's in my backcourt for the next decade. He's another guy whos kinda small but he's got good length and is obviously a plus defender.
martin wrote:Fire Thibs or unfollow Berman? Or both for good measure?
this stuff is so dumb. Thibs never stopped playing IQ. Also IQ was NOT the same player last year. Whatever timeline they are bringing him along on is the RIGHT ONE. ✔✔
fishmike wrote:martin wrote:Fire Thibs or unfollow Berman? Or both for good measure?
this stuff is so dumb. Thibs never stopped playing IQ. Also IQ was NOT the same player last year. Whatever timeline they are bringing him along on is the RIGHT ONE. ✔✔
IQ has benefited from playing most of this season in the role he’s best suited in which is the 2 off the bench. He has had success at pg recently (although most of it facing a tanking Rockets team) but IQ’s percentages were down last year because he was forced to play full time pg a big chunk of the season because Kemba and Rose were both injured and Burks clearly was miscast
If I'm IQ's agent I'm asking for that Brunson $105M contract and starting spot. And if I'm the Knicks I'm giving it to him.
SergioNYK wrote:If I'm IQ's agent I'm asking for that Brunson $105M contract and starting spot. And if I'm the Knicks I'm giving it to him.
This is why we shouldn’t resign Hart unless it’s to a 2 year deal at reasonable money with a club option. We should also be looking to trade Obi for a pick next season at the deadline. IQ is worth more than both of them combined and a lot of GMs know this his value on the open market is probably $80-90 million guaranteed
Philc1 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:If I'm IQ's agent I'm asking for that Brunson $105M contract and starting spot. And if I'm the Knicks I'm giving it to him.
This is why we shouldn’t resign Hart unless it’s to a 2 year deal at reasonable money with a club option. We should also be looking to trade Obi for a pick next season at the deadline. IQ is worth more than both of them combined and a lot of GMs know this his value on the open market is probably $80-90 million guaranteed
Considering Randle and Brunson have friendly contracts I don't think having money invested in both IQ and Hart is that bad. But yeah I'm definitely taking advantage of Obi's 'potential' and 'youth' this offseason and trading him. It doesn't make sense to resign him long term to be a 15 mpg backup unless it's dirt cheap.
SergioNYK wrote:If I'm IQ's agent I'm asking for that Brunson $105M contract and starting spot. And if I'm the Knicks I'm giving it to him.
I really hope the FO doesnt frontrun IQ like that. Dont see stars wanting to join the Knicks, if thats how we do players after the season JB is having.
IQ at SG will give us another playmaker in the starting lineup. Should make it less iso heavy.
blkexec wrote:martin wrote:Fire Thibs or unfollow Berman? Or both for good measure?
Before these 38 and 40 point explosions by IQ, it was a head scratcher to start a SG/SF over IQ (or Deuce) who were the only 2 healthy PGs on the roster at the time. Then once we realized, we were not very good and even making the playin (My history in the last few years might be incorrect, but thats not my point) we would've lost or got swepted. So Thibs had another chance to play IQ towards the end of the season, but instead Burks mins only increased at PG. I'm a burks fan so I don't mind him getting all the minutes, we needed his 2 way impact. But at PG? Head scratcher and why I started to lose faith in Thibs youth development (in that moment).
Fast Forward to Thibs now, he's course corrected himself and made all the necessary roster adjustments I complained about (play the yoots threads), so my complaints are now water under the bridge. But every time IQ has a great game like 40 and 9 yesterday will naturally spark up this conversation again. That comes with the territory of being a coach who's scheme is based on a 9 man rotation. I'm still against this 9 man approach (during the regular season), eventhough as a team, our record was better. But a 9 man rotation seems more like a playoff strategy to me. 10 man (or more) reduces wear and tear, so that your players will be less fatigue going into the playoffs. We have a team of over achievers, no superstars. But what do I know. I'm just a noname fan, coaching from my armchair, flicking the remote.
This pretty much sums it up for me. There is not much to add.
Philc1 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:If I'm IQ's agent I'm asking for that Brunson $105M contract and starting spot. And if I'm the Knicks I'm giving it to him.
This is why we shouldn’t resign Hart unless it’s to a 2 year deal at reasonable money with a club option. We should also be looking to trade Obi for a pick next season at the deadline. IQ is worth more than both of them combined and a lot of GMs know this his value on the open market is probably $80-90 million guaranteed
I am not connecting the dots as to why Harts contract length or anything has, well, anything to do with what IQ is doing or what contract he is on.
They both play well on the team and the Knicks wanna keep both for as long as they can.
Philc1 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:If I'm IQ's agent I'm asking for that Brunson $105M contract and starting spot. And if I'm the Knicks I'm giving it to him.
This is why we shouldn’t resign Hart unless it’s to a 2 year deal at reasonable money with a club option.
Why can't the Knicks sigh both?
Genuinely asking?
I view IQ as a combo guard off bench who plays more PG. For me, PG is his position. I think the Knicks view him as a PG first whose best value to the team is coming off bench with the composition of the current roster. Same with Hart, he is best coming off bench.
I don't know why others view IQ as a SG.
SergioNYK wrote:Philc1 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:If I'm IQ's agent I'm asking for that Brunson $105M contract and starting spot. And if I'm the Knicks I'm giving it to him.
This is why we shouldn’t resign Hart unless it’s to a 2 year deal at reasonable money with a club option. We should also be looking to trade Obi for a pick next season at the deadline. IQ is worth more than both of them combined and a lot of GMs know this his value on the open market is probably $80-90 million guaranteed
Considering Randle and Brunson have friendly contracts I don't think having money invested in both IQ and Hart is that bad. But yeah I'm definitely taking advantage of Obi's 'potential' and 'youth' this offseason and trading him. It doesn't make sense to resign him long term to be a 15 mpg backup unless it's dirt cheap.
We’ll see what happens. If we opt of rose which we will and Hart declines his player option we would be about $13-14 mil under the projected cap next year. If I’m Hart I’d actually pick up my player option and take my chances in the open market in 2024 after a full season here. Right now Hart’s basically relying on the Knicks bidding against themselves next summer
I like cap flexibility. Just in case a superstar suddenly wants to come here
Knickoftime wrote:Philc1 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:If I'm IQ's agent I'm asking for that Brunson $105M contract and starting spot. And if I'm the Knicks I'm giving it to him.
This is why we shouldn’t resign Hart unless it’s to a 2 year deal at reasonable money with a club option.
Why can't the Knicks sigh both?
Genuinely asking?
Because it would ensure we are stuck over the cap the next several years. Perry can try to salary dump players to get under like he did last year to get Brunson but that costs draft picks. Brunson has been a home run FA pickup so far but it may not work out so well next time
martin wrote:I view IQ as a combo guard off bench who plays more PG. For me, PG is his position. I think the Knicks view him as a PG first whose best value to the team is coming off bench with the composition of the current roster. Same with Hart, he is best coming off bench.I don't know why others view IQ as a SG.
I've seen enough to believe that IQ can succeed at either position. Quickley has made no secret that he wants to start. I remember reading as much last season. Yes, so do 99.9 percent of the bench players in the league I imagine. But most of them arent playing like starters at PG and SG.
Would love to see Grimes get the same treatment as IQ. Thought he was rushed too quickly into the starting lineup. Im a big Grimes fan, but I cant say Ive seen a starting SG...yet. Too inconsistent.
Philc1 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:Philc1 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:If I'm IQ's agent I'm asking for that Brunson $105M contract and starting spot. And if I'm the Knicks I'm giving it to him.
This is why we shouldn’t resign Hart unless it’s to a 2 year deal at reasonable money with a club option. We should also be looking to trade Obi for a pick next season at the deadline. IQ is worth more than both of them combined and a lot of GMs know this his value on the open market is probably $80-90 million guaranteed
Considering Randle and Brunson have friendly contracts I don't think having money invested in both IQ and Hart is that bad. But yeah I'm definitely taking advantage of Obi's 'potential' and 'youth' this offseason and trading him. It doesn't make sense to resign him long term to be a 15 mpg backup unless it's dirt cheap.
We’ll see what happens. If we opt of rose which we will and Hart declines his player option we would be about $13-14 mil under the projected cap next year. If I’m Hart I’d actually pick up my player option and take my chances in the open market in 2024 after a full season here. Right now Hart’s basically relying on the Knicks bidding against themselves next summer
I like cap flexibility. Just in case a superstar suddenly wants to come here
Unfortunately, Knicks have mostly maneuvered themselves out of the cap space territory, so there is not really any cap flexibility to work with, and that's why size of Hart's contract is negligible.
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:I view IQ as a combo guard off bench who plays more PG. For me, PG is his position. I think the Knicks view him as a PG first whose best value to the team is coming off bench with the composition of the current roster. Same with Hart, he is best coming off bench.I don't know why others view IQ as a SG.
I've seen enough to believe that IQ can succeed at either position. Quickley has made no secret that he wants to start. I remember reading as much last season. Yes, so do 99.9 percent of the bench players in the league I imagine. But most of them arent playing like starters at PG and SG.
Would love to see Grimes get the same treatment as IQ. Thought he was rushed too quickly into the starting lineup. Im a big Grimes fan, but I cant say Ive seen a starting SG...yet. Too inconsistent.
It's wild to me that you say stuff like that and also make statements that you see Grimes as a possible PG.
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:I view IQ as a combo guard off bench who plays more PG. For me, PG is his position. I think the Knicks view him as a PG first whose best value to the team is coming off bench with the composition of the current roster. Same with Hart, he is best coming off bench.I don't know why others view IQ as a SG.
I've seen enough to believe that IQ can succeed at either position. Quickley has made no secret that he wants to start. I remember reading as much last season. Yes, so do 99.9 percent of the bench players in the league I imagine. But most of them arent playing like starters at PG and SG.
Would love to see Grimes get the same treatment as IQ. Thought he was rushed too quickly into the starting lineup. Im a big Grimes fan, but I cant say Ive seen a starting SG...yet. Too inconsistent.
It's wild to me that you say stuff like that and also make statements that you see Grimes as a possible PG.
Because Grimes doesnt have the dribble (yet) to attack from the wing, the corner, like IQ. But he does have the burst, to blow by defenders from the top of the key and either take it to the rim, or kick it out. Its about having more room to operate.
Why Obi looks more effective when he isnt stuck in the corner. I believe it plays more to his strengths. Grimes has some experience at PG, needs more IMO.
Philc1 wrote:Knickoftime wrote:Philc1 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:If I'm IQ's agent I'm asking for that Brunson $105M contract and starting spot. And if I'm the Knicks I'm giving it to him.
This is why we shouldn’t resign Hart unless it’s to a 2 year deal at reasonable money with a club option.
Why can't the Knicks sigh both?
Genuinely asking?
Because it would ensure we are stuck over the cap the next several years. Perry can try to salary dump players to get under like he did last year to get Brunson but that costs draft picks. Brunson has been a home run FA pickup so far but it may not work out so well next time
There is (1) over the cap, (2) under the cap by a marginal amount, or (3) under the cap by a significant amount.
(3) isn't an option. (2) is the actual scenario if you don't sign Quickley or Hart or find someway to sign them both to value deals, and the latter makes that figure less.
In my estimation, Quickley and hart ARE the types of players you target and use your cap less-than-max space under the (2) scenario. You seem to be getting tripped up over the fact they're both already on the Knicks roster.
Knicks have a three year window after this one - all of Brunson, Randle, and Mitchell expire after 2025-2026 (the cap begins to go up significantly that season) and they won't have max cap space any of the next 3 seasons.
The question is do you try to generate middling cap space for a player other than Hart or Quickley, or just commit and target your next roster upgrade via trade?
martin wrote:I view IQ as a combo guard off bench who plays more PG. For me, PG is his position. I think the Knicks view him as a PG first whose best value to the team is coming off bench with the composition of the current roster. Same with Hart, he is best coming off bench.I don't know why others view IQ as a SG.
Gust aside I dont anyone does. You are spot on with the above but SG is the only path to IQ starting. I have no idea where IQ's mind is with this. Would IQ take a good payday and play the role of 6th man, backup PG, and spot starter? If so GREAT. If not there's another path where we move him SG, play him next to Brunson and use RJ/Grimes to upgrade SF.
Would you move RJ/Grimes for OG? Ingram? Lets say it's OG straight up. I think Toronto wins that trade as Grimes is a really good prospect and RJ goes to Toronto. We would look like
Brunson/IQ/OG/Randle/Mitch with McBride/JHart/IHart off the bench as your main 8.
Does that make us better? FO has some really tough choices ahead but we are at least (finally) dealing from a position of talent. This FO is really "value" focused.
