Knicks · Knicks are a good team with no margin for error (page 2)
blkexec wrote:jskinny35 wrote:I think we are wasting our time trying to trade for more/better bench support. We have Obi, IQ, Sims. D. Rose, (Cam), Deuce and Fournier available if we decide to play them. We have had to move some bench players up due to injuries (eg IQ) recently but that will return to normal soon.If there is any move to make it's to package RJ or Randle (or both) if it can help us acquire a higher level player. Why get rid of a young and solid bench when we know we need to first upgrade some starting positions first. Then the fit to support the starters can be determined.
Brunson, Grimes and Mitch appear to be solid enough if we can improve the consistency/efficiency from RJ and Randle. After 4 seasons worth they are what they are - good to very good players that are streaky offensively and hold the ball too much. If that desired player is not there/available - we should stand pat and try to land that player in this upcoming draft which is supposed to be very deep.
Yes we suck at picking 1-10 but seem to do well in the teens and higher. Package an RJ or Randle, with our pick (and add the Dallas pick) to move up and find a forward that is better then RJ and/or Randle. Gutting the youth/bench in hopes of thinking more veteran bench players will get us to the 2nd round with RJ and Randle is pointless IMO.
Building around RJ and Randle experiment hasn’t been working. Some blame the bench. Some blame thibs. I just think it’s not about blame it’s about fit. We’ve had 4yrs to evaluate them and I’m not seeing how we can build a consistent team with RJ and Randle as the top dogs when they are not consistent on offense or defense.
Both have improved. RJ is 22. He is not there yet. Randle is Randle.
Playing at or above his contract. not awful.
RJ is not a finished product we just extended and really can’t say “Evaluated”. He is much improved.
Obi is a disappointment.
While Hartenstein is not as hoped, I don’t think he is weighing us down.
We are not a bad team. We are not a good team. We a .500ish team.
Nalod wrote:blkexec wrote:jskinny35 wrote:I think we are wasting our time trying to trade for more/better bench support. We have Obi, IQ, Sims. D. Rose, (Cam), Deuce and Fournier available if we decide to play them. We have had to move some bench players up due to injuries (eg IQ) recently but that will return to normal soon.If there is any move to make it's to package RJ or Randle (or both) if it can help us acquire a higher level player. Why get rid of a young and solid bench when we know we need to first upgrade some starting positions first. Then the fit to support the starters can be determined.
Brunson, Grimes and Mitch appear to be solid enough if we can improve the consistency/efficiency from RJ and Randle. After 4 seasons worth they are what they are - good to very good players that are streaky offensively and hold the ball too much. If that desired player is not there/available - we should stand pat and try to land that player in this upcoming draft which is supposed to be very deep.
Yes we suck at picking 1-10 but seem to do well in the teens and higher. Package an RJ or Randle, with our pick (and add the Dallas pick) to move up and find a forward that is better then RJ and/or Randle. Gutting the youth/bench in hopes of thinking more veteran bench players will get us to the 2nd round with RJ and Randle is pointless IMO.
Building around RJ and Randle experiment hasn’t been working. Some blame the bench. Some blame thibs. I just think it’s not about blame it’s about fit. We’ve had 4yrs to evaluate them and I’m not seeing how we can build a consistent team with RJ and Randle as the top dogs when they are not consistent on offense or defense.
Both have improved. RJ is 22. He is not there yet. Randle is Randle.
Playing at or above his contract. not awful.
RJ is not a finished product we just extended and really can’t say “Evaluated”. He is much improved.
Obi is a disappointment.
While Hartenstein is not as hoped, I don’t think he is weighing us down.
We are not a bad team. We are not a good team. We a .500ish team.
RJ is a disappointment. He really isn’t that good. We extended him, and that was a mistake.
What team would trade for him? And actually give us something of value?
We’re not a .500ish team, we’re more like a bad team that had some unexpected wins along with an easy schedule to start the year, but the ground is fast approaching.
I think we miss the play offs again, either entirely or by failing to play in.
We should really think about our roster and who is a long term keeper and who should be jettisoned.
I used to think a player like IQ should be untouchable, but no longer.
I think Brunson is the only player I would keep. And maybe Randle.
My best hope is we end in the lottery and have Dallas and Wizards pick and we win the #1 or 2 or move up enough that our own, the wiz & Dallas pick can be used to trade up to 2 and we can actually grab a franchise talent.
franco12 wrote:Nalod wrote:blkexec wrote:jskinny35 wrote:I think we are wasting our time trying to trade for more/better bench support. We have Obi, IQ, Sims. D. Rose, (Cam), Deuce and Fournier available if we decide to play them. We have had to move some bench players up due to injuries (eg IQ) recently but that will return to normal soon.If there is any move to make it's to package RJ or Randle (or both) if it can help us acquire a higher level player. Why get rid of a young and solid bench when we know we need to first upgrade some starting positions first. Then the fit to support the starters can be determined.
Brunson, Grimes and Mitch appear to be solid enough if we can improve the consistency/efficiency from RJ and Randle. After 4 seasons worth they are what they are - good to very good players that are streaky offensively and hold the ball too much. If that desired player is not there/available - we should stand pat and try to land that player in this upcoming draft which is supposed to be very deep.
Yes we suck at picking 1-10 but seem to do well in the teens and higher. Package an RJ or Randle, with our pick (and add the Dallas pick) to move up and find a forward that is better then RJ and/or Randle. Gutting the youth/bench in hopes of thinking more veteran bench players will get us to the 2nd round with RJ and Randle is pointless IMO.
Building around RJ and Randle experiment hasn’t been working. Some blame the bench. Some blame thibs. I just think it’s not about blame it’s about fit. We’ve had 4yrs to evaluate them and I’m not seeing how we can build a consistent team with RJ and Randle as the top dogs when they are not consistent on offense or defense.
Both have improved. RJ is 22. He is not there yet. Randle is Randle.
Playing at or above his contract. not awful.
RJ is not a finished product we just extended and really can’t say “Evaluated”. He is much improved.
Obi is a disappointment.
While Hartenstein is not as hoped, I don’t think he is weighing us down.
We are not a bad team. We are not a good team. We a .500ish team.RJ is a disappointment. He really isn’t that good. We extended him, and that was a mistake.
What team would trade for him? And actually give us something of value?
We’re not a .500ish team, we’re more like a bad team that had some unexpected wins along with an easy schedule to start the year, but the ground is fast approaching.
I think we miss the play offs again, either entirely or by failing to play in.
We should really think about our roster and who is a long term keeper and who should be jettisoned.
I used to think a player like IQ should be untouchable, but no longer.
I think Brunson is the only player I would keep. And maybe Randle.
My best hope is we end in the lottery and have Dallas and Wizards pick and we win the #1 or 2 or move up enough that our own, the wiz & Dallas pick can be used to trade up to 2 and we can actually grab a franchise talent.
"we should think about our roster"...........
We do and we are. Im looking at the next few years as one of great change. Not different than any other year.
We differ on RJ. You have him capped at where he is. I think he might have some upside given his age, body type, and the amount of improvement he has demonstrated.
I won't talk you into changing your mind and you mine.
I don't prescribe that this team is landlocked as is, so the notion of "This is it unless we rethink it". In another way, "I love living were I am, until I find somewhere else I want to live more".
Sure I'd love to live in Hawaii. THats like saying "We should get a superstar". ITa all a great idea. Im happy were I am. But sports teams are not to be settled as "im content" and think that't it.
In the middle of a 4 game losing streak its easy to say anything about change. Patience is a fans choice. Im patient. Does not mean im "content", its my understanding few things happen quickly and player development is part of it. Two weeks ago Randle was playing as a legit top 10 MVP candidate. Not at the top, but carrying the team. Now, not so much. Find the middle ground. Fans were chanting "MVP" for brunson. now he is choking at the foul line in crunch time.
If young players are inconsistent, then is RJ not a young player? Our expectations are ours to manage.
My hope is our players excel but if they can't crack the starting line up and their due extensions and it does not make sense then time to trade them. For what? I don't know. IQ is such a player.
Maybe as a fan I want to trade players when they bump their ceiling but are redundant. Maybe as a fan you want to trade guys becuase they are not good enough. I like the idea of trading for OG as mentioned yesterday and if another player is bumping RJ out, then trade him, but hopefully because that young player is kicking ass, not because RJ is inconsistent. Keep drafting. Some guys like OBI will not pan out, others like Shai or DM a below the 10 might. That is a long process.
Since I have no input on the matter and no accountability as any other fan we can talk all we want.
These days im turning on the games at halftime. if its close I'll watch the first half. But watching all 82 games in not possible for me nor desirable. Close well played games are fun regardless of the outcome.
I won't sit there and drone in misery about the short comings of each player.
As for living in Hawaii? Well, that depends on so many factors and the price to pay for moving. My friends, family and children will be hours and thousands of dollars away. My cars, beach house, and other material things would have to be sold. It comes at a price. I could get there and while lovely, might not be all that happy once I move. Knicks? I don't think they are a glass half empty. 4 game losing streak won't sway me. I was tickled they were 6 games over .500 but that reality is injuries happen. Seems we played teams for weeks that were missing pieces themselves. Now we are.
Young teams are inconsistent. We are still a young team. We start two 22 year olds.
Nalod wrote:franco12 wrote:Nalod wrote:blkexec wrote:jskinny35 wrote:I think we are wasting our time trying to trade for more/better bench support. We have Obi, IQ, Sims. D. Rose, (Cam), Deuce and Fournier available if we decide to play them. We have had to move some bench players up due to injuries (eg IQ) recently but that will return to normal soon.If there is any move to make it's to package RJ or Randle (or both) if it can help us acquire a higher level player. Why get rid of a young and solid bench when we know we need to first upgrade some starting positions first. Then the fit to support the starters can be determined.
Brunson, Grimes and Mitch appear to be solid enough if we can improve the consistency/efficiency from RJ and Randle. After 4 seasons worth they are what they are - good to very good players that are streaky offensively and hold the ball too much. If that desired player is not there/available - we should stand pat and try to land that player in this upcoming draft which is supposed to be very deep.
Yes we suck at picking 1-10 but seem to do well in the teens and higher. Package an RJ or Randle, with our pick (and add the Dallas pick) to move up and find a forward that is better then RJ and/or Randle. Gutting the youth/bench in hopes of thinking more veteran bench players will get us to the 2nd round with RJ and Randle is pointless IMO.
Building around RJ and Randle experiment hasn’t been working. Some blame the bench. Some blame thibs. I just think it’s not about blame it’s about fit. We’ve had 4yrs to evaluate them and I’m not seeing how we can build a consistent team with RJ and Randle as the top dogs when they are not consistent on offense or defense.
Both have improved. RJ is 22. He is not there yet. Randle is Randle.
Playing at or above his contract. not awful.
RJ is not a finished product we just extended and really can’t say “Evaluated”. He is much improved.
Obi is a disappointment.
While Hartenstein is not as hoped, I don’t think he is weighing us down.
We are not a bad team. We are not a good team. We a .500ish team.RJ is a disappointment. He really isn’t that good. We extended him, and that was a mistake.
What team would trade for him? And actually give us something of value?
We’re not a .500ish team, we’re more like a bad team that had some unexpected wins along with an easy schedule to start the year, but the ground is fast approaching.
I think we miss the play offs again, either entirely or by failing to play in.
We should really think about our roster and who is a long term keeper and who should be jettisoned.
I used to think a player like IQ should be untouchable, but no longer.
I think Brunson is the only player I would keep. And maybe Randle.
My best hope is we end in the lottery and have Dallas and Wizards pick and we win the #1 or 2 or move up enough that our own, the wiz & Dallas pick can be used to trade up to 2 and we can actually grab a franchise talent.
"we should think about our roster"...........
We do and we are. Im looking at the next few years as one of great change. Not different than any other year.
We differ on RJ. You have him capped at where he is. I think he might have some upside given his age, body type, and the amount of improvement he has demonstrated.
I won't talk you into changing your mind and you mine.
I don't prescribe that this team is landlocked as is, so the notion of "This is it unless we rethink it". In another way, "I love living were I am, until I find somewhere else I want to live more".
Sure I'd love to live in Hawaii. THats like saying "We should get a superstar". ITa all a great idea. Im happy were I am. But sports teams are not to be settled as "im content" and think that't it.
In the middle of a 4 game losing streak its easy to say anything about change. Patience is a fans choice. Im patient. Does not mean im "content", its my understanding few things happen quickly and player development is part of it. Two weeks ago Randle was playing as a legit top 10 MVP candidate. Not at the top, but carrying the team. Now, not so much. Find the middle ground. Fans were chanting "MVP" for brunson. now he is choking at the foul line in crunch time.
If young players are inconsistent, then is RJ not a young player? Our expectations are ours to manage.
My hope is our players excel but if they can't crack the starting line up and their due extensions and it does not make sense then time to trade them. For what? I don't know. IQ is such a player.
Maybe as a fan I want to trade players when they bump their ceiling but are redundant. Maybe as a fan you want to trade guys becuase they are not good enough. I like the idea of trading for OG as mentioned yesterday and if another player is bumping RJ out, then trade him, but hopefully because that young player is kicking ass, not because RJ is inconsistent. Keep drafting. Some guys like OBI will not pan out, others like Shai or DM a below the 10 might. That is a long process.
Since I have no input on the matter and no accountability as any other fan we can talk all we want.
These days im turning on the games at halftime. if its close I'll watch the first half. But watching all 82 games in not possible for me nor desirable. Close well played games are fun regardless of the outcome.
I won't sit there and drone in misery about the short comings of each player.
Yes to all of this