UltimateKnicks.com

fishmike @ 2/14/2023 12:23 PM

What they started with
Finished 21-45

No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
5	D Smith Jr.	PG	6-2	205	November 25, 1997	us	2	NC State
11	F Ntilikina	PG	6-4	200	July 28, 1998	be	2	
0	Kadeem Allen	PG	6-1	200	January 15, 1993	us	2	Arizona
6	Elfrid Payton	PG	6-3	195	February 22, 1994	us	5	Louisiana
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	R	Duke
14	Allonzo Trier	SG	6-4	200	January 17, 1996	us	1	Arizona
21	Damyean Dotson	SG	6-5	210	May 6, 1994	us	2	Oregon, Houston
25	Reggie Bullock	SG	6-6	205	March 16, 1991	us	6	UNC
2	Wayne Ellington	SG	6-4	207	November 29, 1987	us	10	UNC
17	I Brazdeikis	SF	6-6	221	January 8, 1999	lt	R	Michigan
20	Kevin Knox	SF	6-7	215	August 11, 1999	us	1	Kentucky
3	M Harkless	SF	6-7	220	May 11, 1993	us	7	St. John's
13	Marcus Morris	SF	6-8	218	September 2, 1989	us	8	Kansas
1	Bobby Portis	PF	6-10	250	February 10, 1995	us	4	Arkansas
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	5	Kentucky
23	M Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	1	Western Kentucky
67	Taj Gibson	C	6-9	232	June 24, 1985	us	10	USC

minutes that year in order:
Jules
RJ
Mitch
Portis
Morris
ELF
Frank
Knox
Taj
Dotson

Where they are now
Currently 32-27


No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
4	Derrick Rose	PG	6-3	200	October 4, 1988	us	13	Memphis
2	Miles McBride	PG	6-2	200	September 8, 2000	us	1	West Virginia
11	Jalen Brunson	PG	6-1	190	August 31, 1996	us	4	Villanova
5	Immanuel Quickley	PG	6-3	190	June 17, 1999	us	2	Kentucky
DaQuan Jeffries  (TW)	SG	6-5	230	August 30, 1997	us	3	Oral Roberts, Tulsa
3	Trevor Keels  (TW)	SG	6-5	221	August 26, 2003	us	R	Duke
3	Josh Hart	SG	6-5	215	March 6, 1995	us	5	Villanova
13	Evan Fournier	SG	6-7	205	October 29, 1992	fr	10	
6	Quentin Grimes	SG	6-5	205	May 8, 2000	us	1	Kansas, Houston
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	3	Duke
1	Obi Toppin	PF	6-9	220	March 4, 1998	us	2	Dayton
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	8	Kentucky
23	Mitchell Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	4	Western Kentucky
45	Jericho Sims	C	6-10	245	October 20, 1998	us	1	Texas
55	Isaiah Hartenstein	C	7-0	250	May 5, 1998	us	4

minutes this year in order:
Jules
Jalen
RJ
IQ
Grimes
IHart
Mitch
Sims
Obi
McBride
(Cam/Fournier/Rose all at least 100 minutes < than McBride)

We are young. Well coached. Have no bad contracts. Have additional incoming draft assets. Half the players in the rotation have real upside... (one might be the next Kobe!).

I also think we have REAL closer. Brunson can get to his spots, break down defenses, make the right pass. Also takes the ball out of Randle's hands who is our workhorse but even Shaq needed a finisher. They just need time and experience doing that and its nice to now worrying about finishing games. Roster has some holes but we have a formula and can hang with anyone

NYKMentality @ 2/14/2023 12:46 PM

Awesome/Exciting Thread

🏀 Being Coached up and developed by someone who's respected around the entire league (due to his NBA pedigree).

Tom Thibs (462-349 @ .570%) is 1 of only 10 NBA Coaches of All-Time to (ever) win multiple Coach of the Year awards.

🏀 8 Homegrown Kids (all between the ages of 22-24).

Immanuel Quickley.
Quentin Grimes.
Deuce McBride.
R.J. Barrett.
Obi Toppin.
Jericho Sims.
Mitchell Robinson.
Rokas Jokubaitis (European Draft and Stash).

🏀 Solid FA signing (Role Player):
Isaiah Hartenstein.

🏀 Potential for one of the better trades within Franchise History (Energizer):
Josh Hart.

🏀All being led by Two All-Star Caliber Players and/or Franchise Cornerstones (@ only 26-28 years of age) 🏀

Jalen Brunson (already my favorite Knicks PG of All-Time. Sorry, Mark Jackson) and Julius Randle (2x All-Star and currently ranked 7th in MVP voting).

🏀 Future Draft Capital:
6 1st round picks throughout the upcoming 3 years.

What's not to love about NYC basketball moving forward?

GustavBahler @ 2/14/2023 1:30 PM

fishmike wrote:What they started with
Finished 21-45
No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
5	D Smith Jr.	PG	6-2	205	November 25, 1997	us	2	NC State
11	F Ntilikina	PG	6-4	200	July 28, 1998	be	2	
0	Kadeem Allen	PG	6-1	200	January 15, 1993	us	2	Arizona
6	Elfrid Payton	PG	6-3	195	February 22, 1994	us	5	Louisiana
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	R	Duke
14	Allonzo Trier	SG	6-4	200	January 17, 1996	us	1	Arizona
21	Damyean Dotson	SG	6-5	210	May 6, 1994	us	2	Oregon, Houston
25	Reggie Bullock	SG	6-6	205	March 16, 1991	us	6	UNC
2	Wayne Ellington	SG	6-4	207	November 29, 1987	us	10	UNC
17	I Brazdeikis	SF	6-6	221	January 8, 1999	lt	R	Michigan
20	Kevin Knox	SF	6-7	215	August 11, 1999	us	1	Kentucky
3	M Harkless	SF	6-7	220	May 11, 1993	us	7	St. John's
13	Marcus Morris	SF	6-8	218	September 2, 1989	us	8	Kansas
1	Bobby Portis	PF	6-10	250	February 10, 1995	us	4	Arkansas
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	5	Kentucky
23	M Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	1	Western Kentucky
67	Taj Gibson	C	6-9	232	June 24, 1985	us	10	USC
minutes that year in order:
Jules
RJ
Mitch
Portis
Morris
ELF
Frank
Knox
Taj
Dotson
Where they are now
Currently 32-27
No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
4	Derrick Rose	PG	6-3	200	October 4, 1988	us	13	Memphis
2	Miles McBride	PG	6-2	200	September 8, 2000	us	1	West Virginia
11	Jalen Brunson	PG	6-1	190	August 31, 1996	us	4	Villanova
5	Immanuel Quickley	PG	6-3	190	June 17, 1999	us	2	Kentucky
DaQuan Jeffries  (TW)	SG	6-5	230	August 30, 1997	us	3	Oral Roberts, Tulsa
3	Trevor Keels  (TW)	SG	6-5	221	August 26, 2003	us	R	Duke
3	Josh Hart	SG	6-5	215	March 6, 1995	us	5	Villanova
13	Evan Fournier	SG	6-7	205	October 29, 1992	fr	10	
6	Quentin Grimes	SG	6-5	205	May 8, 2000	us	1	Kansas, Houston
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	3	Duke
1	Obi Toppin	PF	6-9	220	March 4, 1998	us	2	Dayton
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	8	Kentucky
23	Mitchell Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	4	Western Kentucky
45	Jericho Sims	C	6-10	245	October 20, 1998	us	1	Texas
55	Isaiah Hartenstein	C	7-0	250	May 5, 1998	us	4	
minutes this year in order:
Jules
Jalen
RJ
IQ
Grimes
IHart
Mitch
Sims
Obi
McBride
(Cam/Fournier/Rose all at least 100 minutes < than McBride)
We are young. Well coached. Have no bad contracts. Have additional incoming draft assets. Half the players in the rotation have real upside... (one might be the next Kobe!).
I also think we have REAL closer. Brunson can get to his spots, break down defenses, make the right pass. Also takes the ball out of Randle's hands who is our workhorse but even Shaq needed a finisher. They just need time and experience doing that and its nice to now worrying about finishing games. Roster has some holes but we have a formula and can hang with anyone

Morris was gone by that point. Traded to the Clips for the Quickley pick. Big reason why the losses piled on.

Leon had the rare advantage of inheriting a team with plenty of cap space, some players to build around, and a surplus of 1st and second round picks. More often than not a new Knicks team president inherits a big mess that they have to clean up. Before they get to the job of building a contender. That job had been already done.

What I credit Leon for is not doing a complete tear down, just so every player on the roster was his guy, so to speak. That would have wasted time, and might not have worked. Rose focused instead on what the team really needed. A legit starting PG, and did he deliver.

Unlike too many former team presidents, Rose is devoted to his job. He does his homework. Not the whatever sticks to the wall approach we've seen too often in the past.

Rookie @ 2/14/2023 3:27 PM

I’m starting to think we could be one player away from taking the next step. I’m thinking we make a 1st Rd pick, bring over Jokubaitus and 1 trade using picks for a starter level wing without giving up core player

Knickoftime @ 2/14/2023 3:34 PM

Rookie wrote:I’m starting to think we could be one player away from taking the next step. I’m thinking we make a 1st Rd pick, bring over Jokubaitus and 1 trade using picks for a starter level wing without giving up core player

I'm watching what the clippers do this offseason. I know George and Kawhi are both west coast guys and Ballmer will probably run it back again no matter what, but if they're out in the first or second round...

Longshot yeah, but either of those guys who be the PERFECT SF for this team.

TPercy @ 2/14/2023 4:14 PM

Rokas lowkey been improving oversees. Ideally we get a decent two way option who can play alongside quick in 2nd unit.

Nalod @ 2/14/2023 4:40 PM

Knickoftime wrote:
Rookie wrote:I’m starting to think we could be one player away from taking the next step. I’m thinking we make a 1st Rd pick, bring over Jokubaitus and 1 trade using picks for a starter level wing without giving up core player
I'm watching what the clippers do this offseason. I know George and Kawhi are both west coast guys and Ballmer will probably run it back again no matter what, but if they're out in the first or second round...
Longshot yeah, but either of those guys who be the PERFECT SF for this team.

they don't come cheap, they will delete from teh roster, and they brittle.
But yah never know!

Knickoftime @ 2/14/2023 4:47 PM

Nalod wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Rookie wrote:I’m starting to think we could be one player away from taking the next step. I’m thinking we make a 1st Rd pick, bring over Jokubaitus and 1 trade using picks for a starter level wing without giving up core player
I'm watching what the clippers do this offseason. I know George and Kawhi are both west coast guys and Ballmer will probably run it back again no matter what, but if they're out in the first or second round...
Longshot yeah, but either of those guys who be the PERFECT SF for this team.

they don't come cheap, they will delete from teh roster, and they brittle.
But yah never know!

I think the premise here is that missing link (a legit 3) will be more than a Hart-type, but a top tier two-way wing. That ain't coming from free agency, spare parts, and at least not in the next couple of years, from picks 14 or 15 (Wizards, maybe?) or 19-21 (Mavs).

Given their age and injury red flags the price might be lesser that a mid-20's healthy star.

Anunoby ... maybe??

But I think in that scenario we'd need more breakout from the 2 to pick up some slack on offense.

Knixkik @ 2/14/2023 5:03 PM

I believe the Knicks are a star away from being a contender. One more guy to add to Brunson and Randle, plus the nice group of complimentary players they have.

Knickoftime @ 2/14/2023 5:28 PM

Knixkik wrote:I believe the Knicks are a star away from being a contender. One more guy to add to Brunson and Randle, plus the nice group of complimentary players they have.

In pro sports, the rub isn't the what, it's the how.

Jmpasq @ 2/14/2023 8:17 PM

fishmike wrote:What they started with
Finished 21-45
No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
5	D Smith Jr.	PG	6-2	205	November 25, 1997	us	2	NC State
11	F Ntilikina	PG	6-4	200	July 28, 1998	be	2	
0	Kadeem Allen	PG	6-1	200	January 15, 1993	us	2	Arizona
6	Elfrid Payton	PG	6-3	195	February 22, 1994	us	5	Louisiana
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	R	Duke
14	Allonzo Trier	SG	6-4	200	January 17, 1996	us	1	Arizona
21	Damyean Dotson	SG	6-5	210	May 6, 1994	us	2	Oregon, Houston
25	Reggie Bullock	SG	6-6	205	March 16, 1991	us	6	UNC
2	Wayne Ellington	SG	6-4	207	November 29, 1987	us	10	UNC
17	I Brazdeikis	SF	6-6	221	January 8, 1999	lt	R	Michigan
20	Kevin Knox	SF	6-7	215	August 11, 1999	us	1	Kentucky
3	M Harkless	SF	6-7	220	May 11, 1993	us	7	St. John's
13	Marcus Morris	SF	6-8	218	September 2, 1989	us	8	Kansas
1	Bobby Portis	PF	6-10	250	February 10, 1995	us	4	Arkansas
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	5	Kentucky
23	M Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	1	Western Kentucky
67	Taj Gibson	C	6-9	232	June 24, 1985	us	10	USC
minutes that year in order:
Jules
RJ
Mitch
Portis
Morris
ELF
Frank
Knox
Taj
Dotson
Where they are now
Currently 32-27
No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
4	Derrick Rose	PG	6-3	200	October 4, 1988	us	13	Memphis
2	Miles McBride	PG	6-2	200	September 8, 2000	us	1	West Virginia
11	Jalen Brunson	PG	6-1	190	August 31, 1996	us	4	Villanova
5	Immanuel Quickley	PG	6-3	190	June 17, 1999	us	2	Kentucky
DaQuan Jeffries  (TW)	SG	6-5	230	August 30, 1997	us	3	Oral Roberts, Tulsa
3	Trevor Keels  (TW)	SG	6-5	221	August 26, 2003	us	R	Duke
3	Josh Hart	SG	6-5	215	March 6, 1995	us	5	Villanova
13	Evan Fournier	SG	6-7	205	October 29, 1992	fr	10	
6	Quentin Grimes	SG	6-5	205	May 8, 2000	us	1	Kansas, Houston
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	3	Duke
1	Obi Toppin	PF	6-9	220	March 4, 1998	us	2	Dayton
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	8	Kentucky
23	Mitchell Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	4	Western Kentucky
45	Jericho Sims	C	6-10	245	October 20, 1998	us	1	Texas
55	Isaiah Hartenstein	C	7-0	250	May 5, 1998	us	4	
minutes this year in order:
Jules
Jalen
RJ
IQ
Grimes
IHart
Mitch
Sims
Obi
McBride
(Cam/Fournier/Rose all at least 100 minutes < than McBride)
We are young. Well coached. Have no bad contracts. Have additional incoming draft assets. Half the players in the rotation have real upside... (one might be the next Kobe!).
I also think we have REAL closer. Brunson can get to his spots, break down defenses, make the right pass. Also takes the ball out of Randle's hands who is our workhorse but even Shaq needed a finisher. They just need time and experience doing that and its nice to now worrying about finishing games. Roster has some holes but we have a formula and can hang with anyone

There are bad contracts. Fournier and Rose eat up 30 million in cap space and aren't in the rotation

Panos @ 2/14/2023 8:19 PM

Jmpasq wrote:
fishmike wrote:What they started with
Finished 21-45
No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
5	D Smith Jr.	PG	6-2	205	November 25, 1997	us	2	NC State
11	F Ntilikina	PG	6-4	200	July 28, 1998	be	2	
0	Kadeem Allen	PG	6-1	200	January 15, 1993	us	2	Arizona
6	Elfrid Payton	PG	6-3	195	February 22, 1994	us	5	Louisiana
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	R	Duke
14	Allonzo Trier	SG	6-4	200	January 17, 1996	us	1	Arizona
21	Damyean Dotson	SG	6-5	210	May 6, 1994	us	2	Oregon, Houston
25	Reggie Bullock	SG	6-6	205	March 16, 1991	us	6	UNC
2	Wayne Ellington	SG	6-4	207	November 29, 1987	us	10	UNC
17	I Brazdeikis	SF	6-6	221	January 8, 1999	lt	R	Michigan
20	Kevin Knox	SF	6-7	215	August 11, 1999	us	1	Kentucky
3	M Harkless	SF	6-7	220	May 11, 1993	us	7	St. John's
13	Marcus Morris	SF	6-8	218	September 2, 1989	us	8	Kansas
1	Bobby Portis	PF	6-10	250	February 10, 1995	us	4	Arkansas
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	5	Kentucky
23	M Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	1	Western Kentucky
67	Taj Gibson	C	6-9	232	June 24, 1985	us	10	USC
minutes that year in order:
Jules
RJ
Mitch
Portis
Morris
ELF
Frank
Knox
Taj
Dotson
Where they are now
Currently 32-27
No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
4	Derrick Rose	PG	6-3	200	October 4, 1988	us	13	Memphis
2	Miles McBride	PG	6-2	200	September 8, 2000	us	1	West Virginia
11	Jalen Brunson	PG	6-1	190	August 31, 1996	us	4	Villanova
5	Immanuel Quickley	PG	6-3	190	June 17, 1999	us	2	Kentucky
DaQuan Jeffries  (TW)	SG	6-5	230	August 30, 1997	us	3	Oral Roberts, Tulsa
3	Trevor Keels  (TW)	SG	6-5	221	August 26, 2003	us	R	Duke
3	Josh Hart	SG	6-5	215	March 6, 1995	us	5	Villanova
13	Evan Fournier	SG	6-7	205	October 29, 1992	fr	10	
6	Quentin Grimes	SG	6-5	205	May 8, 2000	us	1	Kansas, Houston
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	3	Duke
1	Obi Toppin	PF	6-9	220	March 4, 1998	us	2	Dayton
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	8	Kentucky
23	Mitchell Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	4	Western Kentucky
45	Jericho Sims	C	6-10	245	October 20, 1998	us	1	Texas
55	Isaiah Hartenstein	C	7-0	250	May 5, 1998	us	4	
minutes this year in order:
Jules
Jalen
RJ
IQ
Grimes
IHart
Mitch
Sims
Obi
McBride
(Cam/Fournier/Rose all at least 100 minutes < than McBride)
We are young. Well coached. Have no bad contracts. Have additional incoming draft assets. Half the players in the rotation have real upside... (one might be the next Kobe!).
I also think we have REAL closer. Brunson can get to his spots, break down defenses, make the right pass. Also takes the ball out of Randle's hands who is our workhorse but even Shaq needed a finisher. They just need time and experience doing that and its nice to now worrying about finishing games. Roster has some holes but we have a formula and can hang with anyone
There are bad contracts. Fournier and Rose eat up 30 million in cap space and aren't in the rotation

They are not long term contracts. They are not Joakim Noah bad. Or Derrick Rose, part I bad. Not Penny Hardaway, Mo T, Jerome James, Eddy Curry, bad.

gradyandrew @ 2/14/2023 11:49 PM

I think Fournier's contract will be movable this summer.

Jmpasq @ 2/15/2023 6:36 AM

Panos wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
fishmike wrote:What they started with
Finished 21-45
No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
5	D Smith Jr.	PG	6-2	205	November 25, 1997	us	2	NC State
11	F Ntilikina	PG	6-4	200	July 28, 1998	be	2	
0	Kadeem Allen	PG	6-1	200	January 15, 1993	us	2	Arizona
6	Elfrid Payton	PG	6-3	195	February 22, 1994	us	5	Louisiana
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	R	Duke
14	Allonzo Trier	SG	6-4	200	January 17, 1996	us	1	Arizona
21	Damyean Dotson	SG	6-5	210	May 6, 1994	us	2	Oregon, Houston
25	Reggie Bullock	SG	6-6	205	March 16, 1991	us	6	UNC
2	Wayne Ellington	SG	6-4	207	November 29, 1987	us	10	UNC
17	I Brazdeikis	SF	6-6	221	January 8, 1999	lt	R	Michigan
20	Kevin Knox	SF	6-7	215	August 11, 1999	us	1	Kentucky
3	M Harkless	SF	6-7	220	May 11, 1993	us	7	St. John's
13	Marcus Morris	SF	6-8	218	September 2, 1989	us	8	Kansas
1	Bobby Portis	PF	6-10	250	February 10, 1995	us	4	Arkansas
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	5	Kentucky
23	M Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	1	Western Kentucky
67	Taj Gibson	C	6-9	232	June 24, 1985	us	10	USC
minutes that year in order:
Jules
RJ
Mitch
Portis
Morris
ELF
Frank
Knox
Taj
Dotson
Where they are now
Currently 32-27
No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
4	Derrick Rose	PG	6-3	200	October 4, 1988	us	13	Memphis
2	Miles McBride	PG	6-2	200	September 8, 2000	us	1	West Virginia
11	Jalen Brunson	PG	6-1	190	August 31, 1996	us	4	Villanova
5	Immanuel Quickley	PG	6-3	190	June 17, 1999	us	2	Kentucky
DaQuan Jeffries  (TW)	SG	6-5	230	August 30, 1997	us	3	Oral Roberts, Tulsa
3	Trevor Keels  (TW)	SG	6-5	221	August 26, 2003	us	R	Duke
3	Josh Hart	SG	6-5	215	March 6, 1995	us	5	Villanova
13	Evan Fournier	SG	6-7	205	October 29, 1992	fr	10	
6	Quentin Grimes	SG	6-5	205	May 8, 2000	us	1	Kansas, Houston
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	3	Duke
1	Obi Toppin	PF	6-9	220	March 4, 1998	us	2	Dayton
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	8	Kentucky
23	Mitchell Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	4	Western Kentucky
45	Jericho Sims	C	6-10	245	October 20, 1998	us	1	Texas
55	Isaiah Hartenstein	C	7-0	250	May 5, 1998	us	4	
minutes this year in order:
Jules
Jalen
RJ
IQ
Grimes
IHart
Mitch
Sims
Obi
McBride
(Cam/Fournier/Rose all at least 100 minutes < than McBride)
We are young. Well coached. Have no bad contracts. Have additional incoming draft assets. Half the players in the rotation have real upside... (one might be the next Kobe!).
I also think we have REAL closer. Brunson can get to his spots, break down defenses, make the right pass. Also takes the ball out of Randle's hands who is our workhorse but even Shaq needed a finisher. They just need time and experience doing that and its nice to now worrying about finishing games. Roster has some holes but we have a formula and can hang with anyone
There are bad contracts. Fournier and Rose eat up 30 million in cap space and aren't in the rotation
They are not long term contracts. They are not Joakim Noah bad. Or Derrick Rose, part I bad. Not Penny Hardaway, Mo T, Jerome James, Eddy Curry, bad.

Yes, there are no franchise crippling contracts. Just saying thats a lot of money not in the rotation. Thats almost a max player in salary. RJ is the worst contract on the roster. He is a borderline negative asset. I think the Knicks would have a hard time moving him.

franco12 @ 2/15/2023 7:53 AM

Jmpasq wrote:
Panos wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
fishmike wrote:What they started with
Finished 21-45
No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
5	D Smith Jr.	PG	6-2	205	November 25, 1997	us	2	NC State
11	F Ntilikina	PG	6-4	200	July 28, 1998	be	2	
0	Kadeem Allen	PG	6-1	200	January 15, 1993	us	2	Arizona
6	Elfrid Payton	PG	6-3	195	February 22, 1994	us	5	Louisiana
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	R	Duke
14	Allonzo Trier	SG	6-4	200	January 17, 1996	us	1	Arizona
21	Damyean Dotson	SG	6-5	210	May 6, 1994	us	2	Oregon, Houston
25	Reggie Bullock	SG	6-6	205	March 16, 1991	us	6	UNC
2	Wayne Ellington	SG	6-4	207	November 29, 1987	us	10	UNC
17	I Brazdeikis	SF	6-6	221	January 8, 1999	lt	R	Michigan
20	Kevin Knox	SF	6-7	215	August 11, 1999	us	1	Kentucky
3	M Harkless	SF	6-7	220	May 11, 1993	us	7	St. John's
13	Marcus Morris	SF	6-8	218	September 2, 1989	us	8	Kansas
1	Bobby Portis	PF	6-10	250	February 10, 1995	us	4	Arkansas
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	5	Kentucky
23	M Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	1	Western Kentucky
67	Taj Gibson	C	6-9	232	June 24, 1985	us	10	USC
minutes that year in order:
Jules
RJ
Mitch
Portis
Morris
ELF
Frank
Knox
Taj
Dotson
Where they are now
Currently 32-27
No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
4	Derrick Rose	PG	6-3	200	October 4, 1988	us	13	Memphis
2	Miles McBride	PG	6-2	200	September 8, 2000	us	1	West Virginia
11	Jalen Brunson	PG	6-1	190	August 31, 1996	us	4	Villanova
5	Immanuel Quickley	PG	6-3	190	June 17, 1999	us	2	Kentucky
DaQuan Jeffries  (TW)	SG	6-5	230	August 30, 1997	us	3	Oral Roberts, Tulsa
3	Trevor Keels  (TW)	SG	6-5	221	August 26, 2003	us	R	Duke
3	Josh Hart	SG	6-5	215	March 6, 1995	us	5	Villanova
13	Evan Fournier	SG	6-7	205	October 29, 1992	fr	10	
6	Quentin Grimes	SG	6-5	205	May 8, 2000	us	1	Kansas, Houston
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	3	Duke
1	Obi Toppin	PF	6-9	220	March 4, 1998	us	2	Dayton
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	8	Kentucky
23	Mitchell Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	4	Western Kentucky
45	Jericho Sims	C	6-10	245	October 20, 1998	us	1	Texas
55	Isaiah Hartenstein	C	7-0	250	May 5, 1998	us	4	
minutes this year in order:
Jules
Jalen
RJ
IQ
Grimes
IHart
Mitch
Sims
Obi
McBride
(Cam/Fournier/Rose all at least 100 minutes < than McBride)
We are young. Well coached. Have no bad contracts. Have additional incoming draft assets. Half the players in the rotation have real upside... (one might be the next Kobe!).
I also think we have REAL closer. Brunson can get to his spots, break down defenses, make the right pass. Also takes the ball out of Randle's hands who is our workhorse but even Shaq needed a finisher. They just need time and experience doing that and its nice to now worrying about finishing games. Roster has some holes but we have a formula and can hang with anyone
There are bad contracts. Fournier and Rose eat up 30 million in cap space and aren't in the rotation
They are not long term contracts. They are not Joakim Noah bad. Or Derrick Rose, part I bad. Not Penny Hardaway, Mo T, Jerome James, Eddy Curry, bad.
Yes, there are no franchise crippling contracts. Just saying thats a lot of money not in the rotation. Thats almost a max player in salary. RJ is the worst contract on the roster. He is a borderline negative asset. I think the Knicks would have a hard time moving him.

I agree with fish. This is the most competent stretch since at least the Riley era Knicks and maybe you could argue better because that team had heart and a will to win that was betrayed by a lack of talent.

And I think RJ might be the one are you can criticize them on- I don’t know that his contract is that bad, but I don’t think it’s wrong to say no one in the league will want to give up a lot for him in a deal.

gradyandrew @ 2/15/2023 9:29 AM

There's still a lot of time left for that RJ contract.

blkexec @ 2/15/2023 10:39 AM

I agree. If you look at the bigger picture, this FO led by Leon Rose, has done a great job. As much as I nitpick at certain moves or contract extensions, we are in a much better position than in the past. So I'm grateful for that and do not mind giving this FO their flowers. Great job.

Now thats over with, time to take this to another level. They see the impact in Josh Hart. They understand the non-Thibs players (Cam). So moving forward, the future appears to be bright for these knicks.

HofstraBBall @ 2/15/2023 10:49 AM

Jmpasq wrote:
Panos wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
fishmike wrote:What they started with
Finished 21-45
No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
5	D Smith Jr.	PG	6-2	205	November 25, 1997	us	2	NC State
11	F Ntilikina	PG	6-4	200	July 28, 1998	be	2	
0	Kadeem Allen	PG	6-1	200	January 15, 1993	us	2	Arizona
6	Elfrid Payton	PG	6-3	195	February 22, 1994	us	5	Louisiana
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	R	Duke
14	Allonzo Trier	SG	6-4	200	January 17, 1996	us	1	Arizona
21	Damyean Dotson	SG	6-5	210	May 6, 1994	us	2	Oregon, Houston
25	Reggie Bullock	SG	6-6	205	March 16, 1991	us	6	UNC
2	Wayne Ellington	SG	6-4	207	November 29, 1987	us	10	UNC
17	I Brazdeikis	SF	6-6	221	January 8, 1999	lt	R	Michigan
20	Kevin Knox	SF	6-7	215	August 11, 1999	us	1	Kentucky
3	M Harkless	SF	6-7	220	May 11, 1993	us	7	St. John's
13	Marcus Morris	SF	6-8	218	September 2, 1989	us	8	Kansas
1	Bobby Portis	PF	6-10	250	February 10, 1995	us	4	Arkansas
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	5	Kentucky
23	M Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	1	Western Kentucky
67	Taj Gibson	C	6-9	232	June 24, 1985	us	10	USC
minutes that year in order:
Jules
RJ
Mitch
Portis
Morris
ELF
Frank
Knox
Taj
Dotson
Where they are now
Currently 32-27
No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
4	Derrick Rose	PG	6-3	200	October 4, 1988	us	13	Memphis
2	Miles McBride	PG	6-2	200	September 8, 2000	us	1	West Virginia
11	Jalen Brunson	PG	6-1	190	August 31, 1996	us	4	Villanova
5	Immanuel Quickley	PG	6-3	190	June 17, 1999	us	2	Kentucky
DaQuan Jeffries  (TW)	SG	6-5	230	August 30, 1997	us	3	Oral Roberts, Tulsa
3	Trevor Keels  (TW)	SG	6-5	221	August 26, 2003	us	R	Duke
3	Josh Hart	SG	6-5	215	March 6, 1995	us	5	Villanova
13	Evan Fournier	SG	6-7	205	October 29, 1992	fr	10	
6	Quentin Grimes	SG	6-5	205	May 8, 2000	us	1	Kansas, Houston
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	3	Duke
1	Obi Toppin	PF	6-9	220	March 4, 1998	us	2	Dayton
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	8	Kentucky
23	Mitchell Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	4	Western Kentucky
45	Jericho Sims	C	6-10	245	October 20, 1998	us	1	Texas
55	Isaiah Hartenstein	C	7-0	250	May 5, 1998	us	4	
minutes this year in order:
Jules
Jalen
RJ
IQ
Grimes
IHart
Mitch
Sims
Obi
McBride
(Cam/Fournier/Rose all at least 100 minutes < than McBride)
We are young. Well coached. Have no bad contracts. Have additional incoming draft assets. Half the players in the rotation have real upside... (one might be the next Kobe!).
I also think we have REAL closer. Brunson can get to his spots, break down defenses, make the right pass. Also takes the ball out of Randle's hands who is our workhorse but even Shaq needed a finisher. They just need time and experience doing that and its nice to now worrying about finishing games. Roster has some holes but we have a formula and can hang with anyone
There are bad contracts. Fournier and Rose eat up 30 million in cap space and aren't in the rotation
They are not long term contracts. They are not Joakim Noah bad. Or Derrick Rose, part I bad. Not Penny Hardaway, Mo T, Jerome James, Eddy Curry, bad.
Yes, there are no franchise crippling contracts. Just saying thats a lot of money not in the rotation. Thats almost a max player in salary. RJ is the worst contract on the roster. He is a borderline negative asset. I think the Knicks would have a hard time moving him.

Knicks had to extend RJ. Was absolutely the right move.
Saying Knicks would have a hard time moving a 20pg producer who is 22 and not a finished product is just good ole Knick fan pessimism. Which happens every time one of our players is struggling.
Imo, just let this play out before we consider a new extension for a 22 year old a bad contract.

fishmike @ 2/15/2023 11:40 AM

HofstraBBall wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
Panos wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
fishmike wrote:What they started with
Finished 21-45
No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
5	D Smith Jr.	PG	6-2	205	November 25, 1997	us	2	NC State
11	F Ntilikina	PG	6-4	200	July 28, 1998	be	2	
0	Kadeem Allen	PG	6-1	200	January 15, 1993	us	2	Arizona
6	Elfrid Payton	PG	6-3	195	February 22, 1994	us	5	Louisiana
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	R	Duke
14	Allonzo Trier	SG	6-4	200	January 17, 1996	us	1	Arizona
21	Damyean Dotson	SG	6-5	210	May 6, 1994	us	2	Oregon, Houston
25	Reggie Bullock	SG	6-6	205	March 16, 1991	us	6	UNC
2	Wayne Ellington	SG	6-4	207	November 29, 1987	us	10	UNC
17	I Brazdeikis	SF	6-6	221	January 8, 1999	lt	R	Michigan
20	Kevin Knox	SF	6-7	215	August 11, 1999	us	1	Kentucky
3	M Harkless	SF	6-7	220	May 11, 1993	us	7	St. John's
13	Marcus Morris	SF	6-8	218	September 2, 1989	us	8	Kansas
1	Bobby Portis	PF	6-10	250	February 10, 1995	us	4	Arkansas
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	5	Kentucky
23	M Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	1	Western Kentucky
67	Taj Gibson	C	6-9	232	June 24, 1985	us	10	USC
minutes that year in order:
Jules
RJ
Mitch
Portis
Morris
ELF
Frank
Knox
Taj
Dotson
Where they are now
Currently 32-27
No.	Player	Pos
▲	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	 	Exp	College
4	Derrick Rose	PG	6-3	200	October 4, 1988	us	13	Memphis
2	Miles McBride	PG	6-2	200	September 8, 2000	us	1	West Virginia
11	Jalen Brunson	PG	6-1	190	August 31, 1996	us	4	Villanova
5	Immanuel Quickley	PG	6-3	190	June 17, 1999	us	2	Kentucky
DaQuan Jeffries  (TW)	SG	6-5	230	August 30, 1997	us	3	Oral Roberts, Tulsa
3	Trevor Keels  (TW)	SG	6-5	221	August 26, 2003	us	R	Duke
3	Josh Hart	SG	6-5	215	March 6, 1995	us	5	Villanova
13	Evan Fournier	SG	6-7	205	October 29, 1992	fr	10	
6	Quentin Grimes	SG	6-5	205	May 8, 2000	us	1	Kansas, Houston
9	RJ Barrett	SG	6-6	214	June 14, 2000	ca	3	Duke
1	Obi Toppin	PF	6-9	220	March 4, 1998	us	2	Dayton
30	Julius Randle	PF	6-8	250	November 29, 1994	us	8	Kentucky
23	Mitchell Robinson	C	7-0	240	April 1, 1998	us	4	Western Kentucky
45	Jericho Sims	C	6-10	245	October 20, 1998	us	1	Texas
55	Isaiah Hartenstein	C	7-0	250	May 5, 1998	us	4	
minutes this year in order:
Jules
Jalen
RJ
IQ
Grimes
IHart
Mitch
Sims
Obi
McBride
(Cam/Fournier/Rose all at least 100 minutes < than McBride)
We are young. Well coached. Have no bad contracts. Have additional incoming draft assets. Half the players in the rotation have real upside... (one might be the next Kobe!).
I also think we have REAL closer. Brunson can get to his spots, break down defenses, make the right pass. Also takes the ball out of Randle's hands who is our workhorse but even Shaq needed a finisher. They just need time and experience doing that and its nice to now worrying about finishing games. Roster has some holes but we have a formula and can hang with anyone
There are bad contracts. Fournier and Rose eat up 30 million in cap space and aren't in the rotation
They are not long term contracts. They are not Joakim Noah bad. Or Derrick Rose, part I bad. Not Penny Hardaway, Mo T, Jerome James, Eddy Curry, bad.
Yes, there are no franchise crippling contracts. Just saying thats a lot of money not in the rotation. Thats almost a max player in salary. RJ is the worst contract on the roster. He is a borderline negative asset. I think the Knicks would have a hard time moving him.
Knicks had to extend RJ. Was absolutely the right move.
Saying Knicks would have a hard time moving a 20pg producer who is 22 and not a finished product is just good ole Knick fan pessimism. Which happens every time one of our players is struggling.
Imo, just let this play out before we consider a new extension for a 22 year old a bad contract.

Jmpasq is a constant complainer/whiner so there's context there. RJ's 22, his extension is very team friendly at around $26mm a year average. If you actually pay attention to how contracts are given out and how teams pay players in the NBA the RJ/Mitch/Randle/Brunson contracts are literally fantastic. Brunson/Randle are max player or very close. Having them for a combined $50mm ish is a steal. Fournier hasnt really worked out but its def not a bad contract and hasnt stopped us from benching him either. RJ is an easy target as he's not playing well, but Knicks 100% had to resign him. HofstraBBall is spot on here

Nalod @ 2/15/2023 12:55 PM

If I digest all I have read it seems if Grimes and RJ become what we think they can, we have those pieces.
YOu get OG Anuoby you lose picks and "complementary pieces". The goal is a net positive and its doable, but you have to delete pieces on the roster that have gotten us to this point also.

I will not argue that today RJ is that player. Or Grimes is our "Allan Houston". Today they are not. Deuce might need 200 more games before he is Marcus Smart, and IQ is Lou Williams.
Fan patience is about understanding and respecting a timeline that is abstract and has no guarantee. Adding a PG13 can take away the "What ifs" but it creates others.

We are in a good situation because someone thought the KP trade and subsequent cap space for Randle had potential.
Someone thought Brunson was worth the money.
Those two things were not apparent at the time it was done.
That IQ, Deuce, adn Grimes could be starting talent.

That goes with Frank and Knox not being that or with us.
The jury is still out with OBI.
And RJ who up until this year was trending very nice for a 22 year old.

All of it gets you to this moment. The good, the bad, and the Ugly.

Few years back when the starphuch era was done the idea that "cap space and draft picks offers more opportunity to create "Luck"!
If Josh Hart pans out as hoped, then everything we spend to get Cam, knox, the pick will have paid off.
If RJ can play up to his contract as has Randle and Brunson, he is tradable if need be and a better version of what he is at this moment.

martin @ 2/21/2023 3:38 PM

Responsible for a lot of this

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