Knicks · this is really good management (page 3)

martin @ 3/2/2023 12:28 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

Knickoftime @ 3/2/2023 12:30 AM
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

I have at least a couple of times.

You don't reply.

martin @ 3/2/2023 12:35 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

I have at least a couple of times.

You don't reply.

It must have been that unremarkable, lay it out again so I get it straight

Knickoftime @ 3/2/2023 12:50 AM
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

I have at least a couple of times.

You don't reply.

It must have been that unremarkable,

Good one.

But (accidentally on your part), accurate.

Not remarkable, on purpose.

lay it out again so I get it straight

Sure. I rarely make declarative conclusions about teams or players... like that guy was making fun of himself for in that video.

I've acknowledged Barrett's efficiency is problematic and less than ideal. I suspect you've seen that yourself. But I've also seen guys turn it around well nto their careers, including a guy on THIS knicks' team.

I choose to consider the possibilities for a Knicks player so long as he's a Knicks player.

Moreover, I don't talk about players with clear animosity unless their behavior (as opposed to their talent or ability) calls for it.

Neither you or I know what the final RJ Barrett product is. Neither of us will for some time. So I'm always going to temper my words and conclusions keeping that in mind.

My "thoughts" are that simple.

martin @ 3/2/2023 8:26 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

I have at least a couple of times.

You don't reply.

It must have been that unremarkable,

Good one.

But (accidentally on your part), accurate.

Not remarkable, on purpose.

lay it out again so I get it straight

Sure. I rarely make declarative conclusions about teams or players... like that guy was making fun of himself for in that video.

I've acknowledged Barrett's efficiency is problematic and less than ideal. I suspect you've seen that yourself. But I've also seen guys turn it around well nto their careers, including a guy on THIS knicks' team.

I choose to consider the possibilities for a Knicks player so long as he's a Knicks player.

Moreover, I don't talk about players with clear animosity unless their behavior (as opposed to their talent or ability) calls for it.

Neither you or I know what the final RJ Barrett product is. Neither of us will for some time. So I'm always going to temper my words and conclusions keeping that in mind.

My "thoughts" are that simple.

It's just called making an assessment with the best info you have at the time. Hang it all out there.

Knickoftime @ 3/2/2023 11:48 AM
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

I have at least a couple of times.

You don't reply.

It must have been that unremarkable,

Good one.

But (accidentally on your part), accurate.

Not remarkable, on purpose.

lay it out again so I get it straight

Sure. I rarely make declarative conclusions about teams or players... like that guy was making fun of himself for in that video.

I've acknowledged Barrett's efficiency is problematic and less than ideal. I suspect you've seen that yourself. But I've also seen guys turn it around well nto their careers, including a guy on THIS knicks' team.

I choose to consider the possibilities for a Knicks player so long as he's a Knicks player.

Moreover, I don't talk about players with clear animosity unless their behavior (as opposed to their talent or ability) calls for it.

Neither you or I know what the final RJ Barrett product is. Neither of us will for some time. So I'm always going to temper my words and conclusions keeping that in mind.

My "thoughts" are that simple.

It's just called making an assessment with the best info you have at the time. Hang it all out there.

Which is exactly what the guy in the video is making fun of himself for.

In professional sports, the best info you have at the tim or any time will always be "I don't know for sure." It's universal and deadly accurate.

But I get it. For some people, that's not as fun. Which is fine. Some people enjoy thinking they know something they don't. Understood.

But the animosity there's no excuse for.

That's just a clown show.

fishmike @ 3/2/2023 12:12 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

I have at least a couple of times.

You don't reply.

It must have been that unremarkable,

Good one.

But (accidentally on your part), accurate.

Not remarkable, on purpose.

lay it out again so I get it straight

Sure. I rarely make declarative conclusions about teams or players... like that guy was making fun of himself for in that video.

I've acknowledged Barrett's efficiency is problematic and less than ideal. I suspect you've seen that yourself. But I've also seen guys turn it around well nto their careers, including a guy on THIS knicks' team.

I choose to consider the possibilities for a Knicks player so long as he's a Knicks player.

Moreover, I don't talk about players with clear animosity unless their behavior (as opposed to their talent or ability) calls for it.

Neither you or I know what the final RJ Barrett product is. Neither of us will for some time. So I'm always going to temper my words and conclusions keeping that in mind.

My "thoughts" are that simple.

ok you thought about it but you are not saying anything.

The fact is RJ has been pretty much the same guy since year 1. Nobody has seen the kind of incremental upticks that say this player has more levels to unlock. He's young. Experience matters. Coaching matters. Things can change.

However with pro sports as you know there is ALWAYS a sense of urgency and being patient with players comes with opportunity cost. Obviously it can also produce. I dont think the FO EVER considered trading Randle. I'm pretty sure he was always getting this season to turn things around.... but one could surely use that as a positive example of patience. Turns out he's none of the stuff folks labeled him last year.

Randle showed in his MIP season some patience was merited. What was RJ shown? He's the least EF% scorer we have and takes the 3rd amount of shots and on a par w/ Randle/Brunson. Its not RJ hate. When do the Knicks shift from patience with RJ to "someone else needs to be taking those shots and getting those minutes"

martin @ 3/2/2023 12:19 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

I have at least a couple of times.

You don't reply.

It must have been that unremarkable,

Good one.

But (accidentally on your part), accurate.

Not remarkable, on purpose.

lay it out again so I get it straight

Sure. I rarely make declarative conclusions about teams or players... like that guy was making fun of himself for in that video.

I've acknowledged Barrett's efficiency is problematic and less than ideal. I suspect you've seen that yourself. But I've also seen guys turn it around well nto their careers, including a guy on THIS knicks' team.

I choose to consider the possibilities for a Knicks player so long as he's a Knicks player.

Moreover, I don't talk about players with clear animosity unless their behavior (as opposed to their talent or ability) calls for it.

Neither you or I know what the final RJ Barrett product is. Neither of us will for some time. So I'm always going to temper my words and conclusions keeping that in mind.

My "thoughts" are that simple.

It's just called making an assessment with the best info you have at the time. Hang it all out there.

Which is exactly what the guy in the video is making fun of himself for.

In professional sports, the best info you have at the tim or any time will always be "I don't know for sure." It's universal and deadly accurate.

But I get it. For some people, that's not as fun. Which is fine. Some people enjoy thinking they know something they don't. Understood.

But the animosity there's no excuse for.

That's just a clown show.

You have zero opinion and nothing to offer. That's boring man; these are discussion boards, not wait and see boards.

I have no animosity for a guy like RJ but it's not hard to see what he can and cannot do while pointing it out and offering an opinion.

This whole website is a clown show, but it's our clown show.

fishmike @ 3/2/2023 12:32 PM
Do you like apples? How you do like THEM apples?

This is a big reason why Hart over McBride is so important. Hart is a polished NBA player. He's got good scoring chops and any team sticking some shit defender on his is gonna get beat time and time again. The only guys in our rotation I wouldnt call "good scorers" are the centers and their impact on the offense is quite amazing

Knickoftime @ 3/2/2023 12:57 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

I have at least a couple of times.

You don't reply.

It must have been that unremarkable,

Good one.

But (accidentally on your part), accurate.

Not remarkable, on purpose.

lay it out again so I get it straight

Sure. I rarely make declarative conclusions about teams or players... like that guy was making fun of himself for in that video.

I've acknowledged Barrett's efficiency is problematic and less than ideal. I suspect you've seen that yourself. But I've also seen guys turn it around well nto their careers, including a guy on THIS knicks' team.

I choose to consider the possibilities for a Knicks player so long as he's a Knicks player.

Moreover, I don't talk about players with clear animosity unless their behavior (as opposed to their talent or ability) calls for it.

Neither you or I know what the final RJ Barrett product is. Neither of us will for some time. So I'm always going to temper my words and conclusions keeping that in mind.

My "thoughts" are that simple.

ok you thought about it but you are not saying anything.

The fact is RJ has been pretty much the same guy since year 1. Nobody has seen the kind of incremental upticks that say this player has more levels to unlock. He's young. Experience matters. Coaching matters. Things can change.

However with pro sports as you know there is ALWAYS a sense of urgency and being patient with players comes with opportunity cost. Obviously it can also produce. I dont think the FO EVER considered trading Randle. I'm pretty sure he was always getting this season to turn things around.... but one could surely use that as a positive example of patience. Turns out he's none of the stuff folks labeled him last year.

Randle showed in his MIP season some patience was merited. What was RJ shown? He's the least EF% scorer we have and takes the 3rd amount of shots and on a par w/ Randle/Brunson. Its not RJ hate. When do the Knicks shift from patience with RJ to "someone else needs to be taking those shots and getting those minutes"

Randle was 26 in his 7th season.

Barrett is still the youngest guy in the Knicks rotation. Yes, he's logged a lot of years and mins, relatively. That's certainly a factor to consider. He may have peaked or at least gotten close enough that his peak will still be inefficient. That's entirely possible and an argument can be made.

I have zero issue with Barrett criticism. It's appropriate. I make no attempt to explain away his inefficiency. I don't pretend to have a conviction about the remainder of his career.

I know that position confuses some people.

But circling back not all criticism is the same.

There ARE sports fans who become fixated on that one guy. There is always that one guy. Every team, every year, regardless of whether the team is good or bad. A bogeyman ALWAYS exists.

I'm just pointing it out.

I don't have any personal issue with RJ Barrett. I don't need to "vent" frustration over his play, much less all the time. He strikes me as a good guy who genuinely tries. That's all I ask.

I'd be okay with trading him for the right deal, I'd be okay with some of his mins being scaled back. But I just don't see the evidence or need to write off his career.

And the constant complaining and the animosity involved is just a BAD look, any which way.

Knickoftime @ 3/2/2023 1:02 PM
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

I have at least a couple of times.

You don't reply.

It must have been that unremarkable,

Good one.

But (accidentally on your part), accurate.

Not remarkable, on purpose.

lay it out again so I get it straight

Sure. I rarely make declarative conclusions about teams or players... like that guy was making fun of himself for in that video.

I've acknowledged Barrett's efficiency is problematic and less than ideal. I suspect you've seen that yourself. But I've also seen guys turn it around well nto their careers, including a guy on THIS knicks' team.

I choose to consider the possibilities for a Knicks player so long as he's a Knicks player.

Moreover, I don't talk about players with clear animosity unless their behavior (as opposed to their talent or ability) calls for it.

Neither you or I know what the final RJ Barrett product is. Neither of us will for some time. So I'm always going to temper my words and conclusions keeping that in mind.

My "thoughts" are that simple.

It's just called making an assessment with the best info you have at the time. Hang it all out there.

Which is exactly what the guy in the video is making fun of himself for.

In professional sports, the best info you have at the tim or any time will always be "I don't know for sure." It's universal and deadly accurate.

But I get it. For some people, that's not as fun. Which is fine. Some people enjoy thinking they know something they don't. Understood.

But the animosity there's no excuse for.

That's just a clown show.

You have zero opinion and nothing to offer. That's boring man; these are discussion boards, not wait and see boards.

I have no animosity for a guy like RJ but it's not hard to see what he can and cannot do while pointing it out and offering an opinion.

This whole website is a clown show, but it's our clown show.

You have every right to your opinion of me and my posts, Martin, and I'll say it again, its your house, I'm a guest.

I think you set a very bad example for discourse and strike me as one of those "vent frustration" guys and justify being fixated on the negative.

I'm cool with both of our opinions of one another being out in the open.

fishmike @ 3/2/2023 1:26 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

I have at least a couple of times.

You don't reply.

It must have been that unremarkable,

Good one.

But (accidentally on your part), accurate.

Not remarkable, on purpose.

lay it out again so I get it straight

Sure. I rarely make declarative conclusions about teams or players... like that guy was making fun of himself for in that video.

I've acknowledged Barrett's efficiency is problematic and less than ideal. I suspect you've seen that yourself. But I've also seen guys turn it around well nto their careers, including a guy on THIS knicks' team.

I choose to consider the possibilities for a Knicks player so long as he's a Knicks player.

Moreover, I don't talk about players with clear animosity unless their behavior (as opposed to their talent or ability) calls for it.

Neither you or I know what the final RJ Barrett product is. Neither of us will for some time. So I'm always going to temper my words and conclusions keeping that in mind.

My "thoughts" are that simple.

ok you thought about it but you are not saying anything.

The fact is RJ has been pretty much the same guy since year 1. Nobody has seen the kind of incremental upticks that say this player has more levels to unlock. He's young. Experience matters. Coaching matters. Things can change.

However with pro sports as you know there is ALWAYS a sense of urgency and being patient with players comes with opportunity cost. Obviously it can also produce. I dont think the FO EVER considered trading Randle. I'm pretty sure he was always getting this season to turn things around.... but one could surely use that as a positive example of patience. Turns out he's none of the stuff folks labeled him last year.

Randle showed in his MIP season some patience was merited. What was RJ shown? He's the least EF% scorer we have and takes the 3rd amount of shots and on a par w/ Randle/Brunson. Its not RJ hate. When do the Knicks shift from patience with RJ to "someone else needs to be taking those shots and getting those minutes"

Randle was 26 in his 7th season.

Barrett is still the youngest guy in the Knicks rotation. Yes, he's logged a lot of years and mins, relatively. That's certainly a factor to consider. He may have peaked or at least gotten close enough that his peak will still be inefficient. That's entirely possible and an argument can be made.

I have zero issue with Barrett criticism. It's appropriate. I make no attempt to explain away his inefficiency. I don't pretend to have a conviction about the remainder of his career.

I know that position confuses some people.

But circling back not all criticism is the same.

There ARE sports fans who become fixated on that one guy. There is always that one guy. Every team, every year, regardless of whether the team is good or bad. A bogeyman ALWAYS exists.

I'm just pointing it out.

I don't have any personal issue with RJ Barrett. I don't need to "vent" frustration over his play, much less all the time. He strikes me as a good guy who genuinely tries. That's all I ask.

I'd be okay with trading him for the right deal, I'd be okay with some of his mins being scaled back. But I just don't see the evidence or need to write off his career.

And the constant complaining and the animosity involved is just a BAD look, any which way.


again... thanks for the thoughts, but you are not saying anything. How long do YOU remain patient? How long do you think the Knicks FO remains patient? How long do you think Thibs remains patient? Feel free to answer any of these with you opinions. You dont need to be right. Just curious
martin @ 3/2/2023 1:27 PM
Knickoftime wrote:I think you set a very bad example for discourse and strike me as one of those "vent frustration" guys and justify being fixated on the negative.

Let's get it straight, you won't even offer an opinion and join in on discourse. I mean, we get it, right? Players can change. And...? That's it? If you don't want to participate, that's on you.

And you are actively looking for any type of indirect comment that could be construed towards RJ - I was literally praising a couple of players the other day in a thread that was also praising a bunch of players and you took it as a sideways glance to RJ. That's on you. Literally look at how hard you are trying.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

"Brunson-Quickley-Hart-Randle-Robinson is one of my favorite Knicks lineups of all time"

Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:It will never be the starting lineup most likely, but it is just so good. It will never get outworked, will always be elite defensively, and the offense hums around Randle and Brunson. Teams can’t keep this group off the offensive boards and the actively level is impossible to match. It’s that lineup no team wants to face. Can’t help but be extremely entertained watching them and I feel like this is the lineup that reflects culture change we haven’t seen since the Van Gundy days.

NICE

When you got players who understand their role, give max effort with smart plays, and how they fit in with the guys around them, just makes everyone better. IQ, Mitch, Hart are exactly that

Love it

subtitle: How To Criticize RJ Barrett Without Mentioning RJ Barrett In One Easy Step

Knickoftime wrote:
Panos wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Panos wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:It will never be the starting lineup most likely, but it is just so good. It will never get outworked, will always be elite defensively, and the offense hums around Randle and Brunson. Teams can7;t keep this group off the offensive boards and the actively level is impossible to match. It;s that lineup no team wants to face. Cant help but be extremely entertained watching them and I feel like this is the lineup that reflects culture change we haven;t seen since the Van Gundy days.
NICE

When you got players who understand their role, give max effort with smart plays, and how they fit in with the guys around them, just makes everyone better. IQ, Mitch, Hart are exactly that

Love it

subtitle: How To Criticize RJ Barrett Without Mentioning RJ Barrett In One Easy Step

Hey man, the facts are what they are (until they're not). Why can't a fan have a little joy? At least for a change, there are things to be positive about this team even if RJ isn't the one bringing the joy? Why do we have to be married to him as fans?

Not sure I understand. Have a little joy = being incessantly and obsessively negative about one thing all the time?

You're the only one that mentioned RJ.

No, I wasn't.

I was the one who typed out his name.

The post I responded to WAS about RJ Barrett.

Nalod @ 3/2/2023 2:20 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

I have at least a couple of times.

You don't reply.

It must have been that unremarkable,

Good one.

But (accidentally on your part), accurate.

Not remarkable, on purpose.

lay it out again so I get it straight

Sure. I rarely make declarative conclusions about teams or players... like that guy was making fun of himself for in that video.

I've acknowledged Barrett's efficiency is problematic and less than ideal. I suspect you've seen that yourself. But I've also seen guys turn it around well nto their careers, including a guy on THIS knicks' team.

I choose to consider the possibilities for a Knicks player so long as he's a Knicks player.

Moreover, I don't talk about players with clear animosity unless their behavior (as opposed to their talent or ability) calls for it.

Neither you or I know what the final RJ Barrett product is. Neither of us will for some time. So I'm always going to temper my words and conclusions keeping that in mind.

My "thoughts" are that simple.

ok you thought about it but you are not saying anything.

The fact is RJ has been pretty much the same guy since year 1. Nobody has seen the kind of incremental upticks that say this player has more levels to unlock. He's young. Experience matters. Coaching matters. Things can change.

However with pro sports as you know there is ALWAYS a sense of urgency and being patient with players comes with opportunity cost. Obviously it can also produce. I dont think the FO EVER considered trading Randle. I'm pretty sure he was always getting this season to turn things around.... but one could surely use that as a positive example of patience. Turns out he's none of the stuff folks labeled him last year.

Randle showed in his MIP season some patience was merited. What was RJ shown? He's the least EF% scorer we have and takes the 3rd amount of shots and on a par w/ Randle/Brunson. Its not RJ hate. When do the Knicks shift from patience with RJ to "someone else needs to be taking those shots and getting those minutes"

Randle was 26 in his 7th season.

Barrett is still the youngest guy in the Knicks rotation. Yes, he's logged a lot of years and mins, relatively. That's certainly a factor to consider. He may have peaked or at least gotten close enough that his peak will still be inefficient. That's entirely possible and an argument can be made.

I have zero issue with Barrett criticism. It's appropriate. I make no attempt to explain away his inefficiency. I don't pretend to have a conviction about the remainder of his career.

I know that position confuses some people.

But circling back not all criticism is the same.

There ARE sports fans who become fixated on that one guy. There is always that one guy. Every team, every year, regardless of whether the team is good or bad. A bogeyman ALWAYS exists.

I'm just pointing it out.

I don't have any personal issue with RJ Barrett. I don't need to "vent" frustration over his play, much less all the time. He strikes me as a good guy who genuinely tries. That's all I ask.

I'd be okay with trading him for the right deal, I'd be okay with some of his mins being scaled back. But I just don't see the evidence or need to write off his career.

And the constant complaining and the animosity involved is just a BAD look, any which way.


again... thanks for the thoughts, but you are not saying anything. How long do YOU remain patient? How long do you think the Knicks FO remains patient? How long do you think Thibs remains patient? Feel free to answer any of these with you opinions. You dont need to be right. Just curious

I'll jump in here as too am cool with Barrett for now. Why? We doing good with him in the line up.
He been in here the whole season. So success is also on him.
To parrot myself again, I don't know the cause/blame/reason for his enhanced inconsistency or what Thibs thinks of him.
maybe at seasons end we get the "he is having surgery to repair season long (XXX)?
Or, he is asking for a trade as his game is not for Thibs.
I can respect that without villainizing him.
Is he the same as his rookie year? Not really.
Lets be real, Thibs messes up young players before they fully blossom. In fact, I don't see RJ, or Quick and grimes as fully formed. They all have history of ebb and flow and end up better.
Not all become Jimmy Butler and I think the young minds in MInny melted under Thibs and Jimmy pressure.
It think Thibs is really hard on them. They are professionals, they need to handle it!
Johnny Bryants track record with guards is likely a part of IQ's progress. I think RJ is a better playmaker this year. BUt......we all focus on the bad when he loses his shit is embossed in our memory.
YOung players look bad or take steps bad on the way up. I get he "Should" be further along given his time here, but not all players are the same or respond. I have faith we paid him for a reason and he'll fulfil that contract and perhaps beyond. But no guarantees!!! I get it.
Obi is a better shooter now then previously. His age and contract status puts him in a different discussion.
We are winning with RJ now playing about 10 less minutes. He is not finishing. Im cool with it. We winning.

Knickoftime @ 3/2/2023 2:32 PM
Nalod wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

I have at least a couple of times.

You don't reply.

It must have been that unremarkable,

Good one.

But (accidentally on your part), accurate.

Not remarkable, on purpose.

lay it out again so I get it straight

Sure. I rarely make declarative conclusions about teams or players... like that guy was making fun of himself for in that video.

I've acknowledged Barrett's efficiency is problematic and less than ideal. I suspect you've seen that yourself. But I've also seen guys turn it around well nto their careers, including a guy on THIS knicks' team.

I choose to consider the possibilities for a Knicks player so long as he's a Knicks player.

Moreover, I don't talk about players with clear animosity unless their behavior (as opposed to their talent or ability) calls for it.

Neither you or I know what the final RJ Barrett product is. Neither of us will for some time. So I'm always going to temper my words and conclusions keeping that in mind.

My "thoughts" are that simple.

ok you thought about it but you are not saying anything.

The fact is RJ has been pretty much the same guy since year 1. Nobody has seen the kind of incremental upticks that say this player has more levels to unlock. He's young. Experience matters. Coaching matters. Things can change.

However with pro sports as you know there is ALWAYS a sense of urgency and being patient with players comes with opportunity cost. Obviously it can also produce. I dont think the FO EVER considered trading Randle. I'm pretty sure he was always getting this season to turn things around.... but one could surely use that as a positive example of patience. Turns out he's none of the stuff folks labeled him last year.

Randle showed in his MIP season some patience was merited. What was RJ shown? He's the least EF% scorer we have and takes the 3rd amount of shots and on a par w/ Randle/Brunson. Its not RJ hate. When do the Knicks shift from patience with RJ to "someone else needs to be taking those shots and getting those minutes"

Randle was 26 in his 7th season.

Barrett is still the youngest guy in the Knicks rotation. Yes, he's logged a lot of years and mins, relatively. That's certainly a factor to consider. He may have peaked or at least gotten close enough that his peak will still be inefficient. That's entirely possible and an argument can be made.

I have zero issue with Barrett criticism. It's appropriate. I make no attempt to explain away his inefficiency. I don't pretend to have a conviction about the remainder of his career.

I know that position confuses some people.

But circling back not all criticism is the same.

There ARE sports fans who become fixated on that one guy. There is always that one guy. Every team, every year, regardless of whether the team is good or bad. A bogeyman ALWAYS exists.

I'm just pointing it out.

I don't have any personal issue with RJ Barrett. I don't need to "vent" frustration over his play, much less all the time. He strikes me as a good guy who genuinely tries. That's all I ask.

I'd be okay with trading him for the right deal, I'd be okay with some of his mins being scaled back. But I just don't see the evidence or need to write off his career.

And the constant complaining and the animosity involved is just a BAD look, any which way.


again... thanks for the thoughts, but you are not saying anything. How long do YOU remain patient? How long do you think the Knicks FO remains patient? How long do you think Thibs remains patient? Feel free to answer any of these with you opinions. You dont need to be right. Just curious

I'll jump in here as too am cool with Barrett for now. Why? We doing good with him in the line up.
He been in here the whole season. So success is also on him.
To parrot myself again, I don't know the cause/blame/reason for his enhanced inconsistency or what Thibs thinks of him.
maybe at seasons end we get the "he is having surgery to repair season long (XXX)?
Or, he is asking for a trade as his game is not for Thibs.
I can respect that without villainizing him.
Is he the same as his rookie year? Not really.
Lets be real, Thibs messes up young players before they fully blossom. In fact, I don't see RJ, or Quick and grimes as fully formed. They all have history of ebb and flow and end up better.
Not all become Jimmy Butler and I think the young minds in MInny melted under Thibs and Jimmy pressure.
It think Thibs is really hard on them. They are professionals, they need to handle it!
Johnny Bryants track record with guards is likely a part of IQ's progress. I think RJ is a better playmaker this year. BUt......we all focus on the bad when he loses his shit is embossed in our memory.
YOung players look bad or take steps bad on the way up. I get he "Should" be further along given his time here, but not all players are the same or respond. I have faith we paid him for a reason and he'll fulfil that contract and perhaps beyond. But no guarantees!!! I get it.
Obi is a better shooter now then previously. His age and contract status puts him in a different discussion.
We are winning with RJ now playing about 10 less minutes. He is not finishing. Im cool with it. We winning.

It's closer to 5 less.

28 and change compared to 33 and change.

Knickoftime @ 3/2/2023 2:49 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

I have at least a couple of times.

You don't reply.

It must have been that unremarkable,

Good one.

But (accidentally on your part), accurate.

Not remarkable, on purpose.

lay it out again so I get it straight

Sure. I rarely make declarative conclusions about teams or players... like that guy was making fun of himself for in that video.

I've acknowledged Barrett's efficiency is problematic and less than ideal. I suspect you've seen that yourself. But I've also seen guys turn it around well nto their careers, including a guy on THIS knicks' team.

I choose to consider the possibilities for a Knicks player so long as he's a Knicks player.

Moreover, I don't talk about players with clear animosity unless their behavior (as opposed to their talent or ability) calls for it.

Neither you or I know what the final RJ Barrett product is. Neither of us will for some time. So I'm always going to temper my words and conclusions keeping that in mind.

My "thoughts" are that simple.

ok you thought about it but you are not saying anything.

The fact is RJ has been pretty much the same guy since year 1. Nobody has seen the kind of incremental upticks that say this player has more levels to unlock. He's young. Experience matters. Coaching matters. Things can change.

However with pro sports as you know there is ALWAYS a sense of urgency and being patient with players comes with opportunity cost. Obviously it can also produce. I dont think the FO EVER considered trading Randle. I'm pretty sure he was always getting this season to turn things around.... but one could surely use that as a positive example of patience. Turns out he's none of the stuff folks labeled him last year.

Randle showed in his MIP season some patience was merited. What was RJ shown? He's the least EF% scorer we have and takes the 3rd amount of shots and on a par w/ Randle/Brunson. Its not RJ hate. When do the Knicks shift from patience with RJ to "someone else needs to be taking those shots and getting those minutes"

Randle was 26 in his 7th season.

Barrett is still the youngest guy in the Knicks rotation. Yes, he's logged a lot of years and mins, relatively. That's certainly a factor to consider. He may have peaked or at least gotten close enough that his peak will still be inefficient. That's entirely possible and an argument can be made.

I have zero issue with Barrett criticism. It's appropriate. I make no attempt to explain away his inefficiency. I don't pretend to have a conviction about the remainder of his career.

I know that position confuses some people.

But circling back not all criticism is the same.

There ARE sports fans who become fixated on that one guy. There is always that one guy. Every team, every year, regardless of whether the team is good or bad. A bogeyman ALWAYS exists.

I'm just pointing it out.

I don't have any personal issue with RJ Barrett. I don't need to "vent" frustration over his play, much less all the time. He strikes me as a good guy who genuinely tries. That's all I ask.

I'd be okay with trading him for the right deal, I'd be okay with some of his mins being scaled back. But I just don't see the evidence or need to write off his career.

And the constant complaining and the animosity involved is just a BAD look, any which way.


again... thanks for the thoughts, but you are not saying anything. How long do YOU remain patient? How long do you think the Knicks FO remains patient? How long do you think Thibs remains patient? Feel free to answer any of these with you opinions. You dont need to be right. Just curious

I'm saying what I intend to say. I can't form an opinion I don't have.

How long? He's contracted to be on the Knicks for 4 more seasons. He's 22. I don't have a date. my honest opinion is patience hasn't run out yet.

I don't think Thibs is being pressured to play him. If he can play for Thibs, I'm cool with that.

What's the possibilities here?

1. Barrett progresses and becomes a more efficient member of the rotation.

2. Barrett becomes/remains an asset in a trade to bring in a star wing and/or amore efficient wing.

3. Barrett sits on the bench. It becomes a team distraction. We all have no idea how it plays in the locker room.

1 and 2 both (whichever you prefer) seems like the most desirable outcome BY FAR and to some degree both rely on continued patience and PT.

Given the Knicks have found a formula to win with him still a significant part of the rotation, and given I don't think their ceiling is championship in the best of circumstance THIS year, I think you remain patience for the foreseeable future.

If a good trade presents itself in the off-season and someone wants Barrett. Great. I'm down. If not, I think you plan on him being part of your 2023-24 rotation again, perhaps with a new role (maybe reduced, maybe different, maybe both) you carve out from the summer workouts into the start of the new season.

Sorry, I don't have a date and time when patience runs out. That's my most earnest answer.

Knickoftime @ 3/2/2023 3:10 PM
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:I think you set a very bad example for discourse and strike me as one of those "vent frustration" guys and justify being fixated on the negative.

Let's get it straight, you won't even offer an opinion and join in on discourse. I mean, we get it, right?

No, not right.

I have offered my opinion. You find my lack of a a declarative (what I'd call "hot take" like on performative sports morning shows) 'boring.' You're allowed, the shows offer those performances because they appeal to people. They want people to have a visceral reaction to their takes.

But in both nature and training I look at both sides and try to find outcomes, rather than defend my confirmation biases. I find this approach useful and entertaining, and not for nothing, lucrative...

Players can change. And...? That's it? If you don't want to participate, that's on you.

I am participating, just not in a way YOU prefer. And that isn't on me, that's on you. And of course, you have the trap door button, I don't, so in a way, it's REALLY on you.

And you are actively looking for any type of indirect comment that could be construed towards RJ - I was literally praising a couple of players the other day in a thread that was also praising a bunch of players and you took it as a sideways glance to RJ. That's on you. Literally look at how hard you are trying.

"Actively"? I happened upon a post and that was my read. I wrote a 10 second jokey reply. I think you may be reading some premeditation that wasn't there.

But I'm going to give you some credit Martin. When i talk about how some sports fans always need a bogeyman ... when I talk about how some sports fans always gravitate to the negative ... (like the guy making fun of himself) ...and when I say RJ Barrett HAS become the latest Knicks bogeyman, I suspect you know exactly what I'm talking about. And IN MY OPINION, I think you engage in it. I understand that maybe in YOUR OPINION you don't. But in MY OPINION you do, and in MY OPINION, I've seen a lot of fans who do it not really aware they are.

Am I wrong? About you or about that post I wrote a 10 second joke about?

Maybe. That's possible.

But you're literally encouraging me to pick a declarative lane about things.

I mean, aren't you?

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

"Brunson-Quickley-Hart-Randle-Robinson is one of my favorite Knicks lineups of all time"

Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:It will never be the starting lineup most likely, but it is just so good. It will never get outworked, will always be elite defensively, and the offense hums around Randle and Brunson. Teams can’t keep this group off the offensive boards and the actively level is impossible to match. It’s that lineup no team wants to face. Can’t help but be extremely entertained watching them and I feel like this is the lineup that reflects culture change we haven’t seen since the Van Gundy days.

NICE

When you got players who understand their role, give max effort with smart plays, and how they fit in with the guys around them, just makes everyone better. IQ, Mitch, Hart are exactly that

Love it

subtitle: How To Criticize RJ Barrett Without Mentioning RJ Barrett In One Easy Step

Knickoftime wrote:
Panos wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Panos wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:It will never be the starting lineup most likely, but it is just so good. It will never get outworked, will always be elite defensively, and the offense hums around Randle and Brunson. Teams can7;t keep this group off the offensive boards and the actively level is impossible to match. It;s that lineup no team wants to face. Cant help but be extremely entertained watching them and I feel like this is the lineup that reflects culture change we haven;t seen since the Van Gundy days.
NICE

When you got players who understand their role, give max effort with smart plays, and how they fit in with the guys around them, just makes everyone better. IQ, Mitch, Hart are exactly that

Love it

subtitle: How To Criticize RJ Barrett Without Mentioning RJ Barrett In One Easy Step

Hey man, the facts are what they are (until they're not). Why can't a fan have a little joy? At least for a change, there are things to be positive about this team even if RJ isn't the one bringing the joy? Why do we have to be married to him as fans?

Not sure I understand. Have a little joy = being incessantly and obsessively negative about one thing all the time?

You're the only one that mentioned RJ.

No, I wasn't.

I was the one who typed out his name.

The post I responded to WAS about RJ Barrett.

martin @ 3/2/2023 3:27 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:I think you set a very bad example for discourse and strike me as one of those "vent frustration" guys and justify being fixated on the negative.

Let's get it straight, you won't even offer an opinion and join in on discourse. I mean, we get it, right?

No, not right.

I have offered my opinion. You find my lack of a a declarative (what I'd call "hot take" like on performative sports morning shows) 'boring.' You're allowed, the shows offer those performances because they appeal to people. They want people to have a visceral reaction to their takes.

But in both nature and training I look at both sides and try to find outcomes, rather than defend my confirmation biases. I find this approach useful and entertaining, and not for nothing, lucrative...

Players can change. And...? That's it? If you don't want to participate, that's on you.

I am participating, just not in a way YOU prefer. And that isn't on me, that's on you. And of course, you have the trap door button, I don't, so in a way, it's REALLY on you.

And you are actively looking for any type of indirect comment that could be construed towards RJ - I was literally praising a couple of players the other day in a thread that was also praising a bunch of players and you took it as a sideways glance to RJ. That's on you. Literally look at how hard you are trying.

"Actively"? I happened upon a post and that was my read. I wrote a 10 second jokey reply. I think you may be reading some premeditation that wasn't there.

But I'm going to give you some credit Martin. When i talk about how some sports fans always need a bogeyman ... when I talk about how some sports fans always gravitate to the negative ... (like the guy making fun of himself) ...and when I say RJ Barrett HAS become the latest Knicks bogeyman, I suspect you know exactly what I'm talking about. And IN MY OPINION, I think you engage in it. I understand that maybe in YOUR OPINION you don't. But in MY OPINION you do, and in MY OPINION, I've seen a lot of fans who do it not really aware they are.

Am I wrong? About you or about that post I wrote a 10 second joke about?

Maybe. That's possible.

But you're literally encouraging me to pick a declarative lane about things.

I mean, aren't you?

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

"Brunson-Quickley-Hart-Randle-Robinson is one of my favorite Knicks lineups of all time"

Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:It will never be the starting lineup most likely, but it is just so good. It will never get outworked, will always be elite defensively, and the offense hums around Randle and Brunson. Teams can’t keep this group off the offensive boards and the actively level is impossible to match. It’s that lineup no team wants to face. Can’t help but be extremely entertained watching them and I feel like this is the lineup that reflects culture change we haven’t seen since the Van Gundy days.

NICE

When you got players who understand their role, give max effort with smart plays, and how they fit in with the guys around them, just makes everyone better. IQ, Mitch, Hart are exactly that

Love it

subtitle: How To Criticize RJ Barrett Without Mentioning RJ Barrett In One Easy Step

Knickoftime wrote:
Panos wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Panos wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:It will never be the starting lineup most likely, but it is just so good. It will never get outworked, will always be elite defensively, and the offense hums around Randle and Brunson. Teams can7;t keep this group off the offensive boards and the actively level is impossible to match. It;s that lineup no team wants to face. Cant help but be extremely entertained watching them and I feel like this is the lineup that reflects culture change we haven;t seen since the Van Gundy days.
NICE

When you got players who understand their role, give max effort with smart plays, and how they fit in with the guys around them, just makes everyone better. IQ, Mitch, Hart are exactly that

Love it

subtitle: How To Criticize RJ Barrett Without Mentioning RJ Barrett In One Easy Step

Hey man, the facts are what they are (until they're not). Why can't a fan have a little joy? At least for a change, there are things to be positive about this team even if RJ isn't the one bringing the joy? Why do we have to be married to him as fans?

Not sure I understand. Have a little joy = being incessantly and obsessively negative about one thing all the time?

You're the only one that mentioned RJ.

No, I wasn't.

I was the one who typed out his name.

The post I responded to WAS about RJ Barrett.

your jokes hit their mark about as well as RJ shoots the ball

Now that's a good joke lol

fishmike @ 3/2/2023 4:06 PM
Nalod wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

I have at least a couple of times.

You don't reply.

It must have been that unremarkable,

Good one.

But (accidentally on your part), accurate.

Not remarkable, on purpose.

lay it out again so I get it straight

Sure. I rarely make declarative conclusions about teams or players... like that guy was making fun of himself for in that video.

I've acknowledged Barrett's efficiency is problematic and less than ideal. I suspect you've seen that yourself. But I've also seen guys turn it around well nto their careers, including a guy on THIS knicks' team.

I choose to consider the possibilities for a Knicks player so long as he's a Knicks player.

Moreover, I don't talk about players with clear animosity unless their behavior (as opposed to their talent or ability) calls for it.

Neither you or I know what the final RJ Barrett product is. Neither of us will for some time. So I'm always going to temper my words and conclusions keeping that in mind.

My "thoughts" are that simple.

ok you thought about it but you are not saying anything.

The fact is RJ has been pretty much the same guy since year 1. Nobody has seen the kind of incremental upticks that say this player has more levels to unlock. He's young. Experience matters. Coaching matters. Things can change.

However with pro sports as you know there is ALWAYS a sense of urgency and being patient with players comes with opportunity cost. Obviously it can also produce. I dont think the FO EVER considered trading Randle. I'm pretty sure he was always getting this season to turn things around.... but one could surely use that as a positive example of patience. Turns out he's none of the stuff folks labeled him last year.

Randle showed in his MIP season some patience was merited. What was RJ shown? He's the least EF% scorer we have and takes the 3rd amount of shots and on a par w/ Randle/Brunson. Its not RJ hate. When do the Knicks shift from patience with RJ to "someone else needs to be taking those shots and getting those minutes"

Randle was 26 in his 7th season.

Barrett is still the youngest guy in the Knicks rotation. Yes, he's logged a lot of years and mins, relatively. That's certainly a factor to consider. He may have peaked or at least gotten close enough that his peak will still be inefficient. That's entirely possible and an argument can be made.

I have zero issue with Barrett criticism. It's appropriate. I make no attempt to explain away his inefficiency. I don't pretend to have a conviction about the remainder of his career.

I know that position confuses some people.

But circling back not all criticism is the same.

There ARE sports fans who become fixated on that one guy. There is always that one guy. Every team, every year, regardless of whether the team is good or bad. A bogeyman ALWAYS exists.

I'm just pointing it out.

I don't have any personal issue with RJ Barrett. I don't need to "vent" frustration over his play, much less all the time. He strikes me as a good guy who genuinely tries. That's all I ask.

I'd be okay with trading him for the right deal, I'd be okay with some of his mins being scaled back. But I just don't see the evidence or need to write off his career.

And the constant complaining and the animosity involved is just a BAD look, any which way.


again... thanks for the thoughts, but you are not saying anything. How long do YOU remain patient? How long do you think the Knicks FO remains patient? How long do you think Thibs remains patient? Feel free to answer any of these with you opinions. You dont need to be right. Just curious

I'll jump in here as too am cool with Barrett for now. Why? We doing good with him in the line up.

See... there is where you lost me. No we arent. We are the worst when he's on the floor. Before the winning streak the worst stretches for the Knicks where when he was on the floor. Namely in the first qtr when he would miss everything and IQ would come in and we would play better and with he's with the Obi/McBride line up which to be fair is very weak and no more.

He's got the worst +/-
He's got the worst ORTg and DRTg
He's got the worst win shares and WS/48

Nalod he's hands down the worst rotation player which honestly would be fine, except his usage and FGAs are NOT in line with the quality of his play. I'm just asking when does that change?

I will say one thing is he's pretty much lost his crunchtime spot to IQ or Hart and has to be playing lights out to stay in. Im not happy with that. Best thing for the Knicks is this guy leveling up.

Knickoftime @ 3/2/2023 4:35 PM
fishmike wrote:
Nalod wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:It’s a good summary of a whole lotta Knicks fans LOL

Coming in 2025 - the RJ Barrett mix...

I’ve put my clear stance out there.

Go ahead and take a dip into the deep end and give us your thoughts on RJ.

I have at least a couple of times.

You don't reply.

It must have been that unremarkable,

Good one.

But (accidentally on your part), accurate.

Not remarkable, on purpose.

lay it out again so I get it straight

Sure. I rarely make declarative conclusions about teams or players... like that guy was making fun of himself for in that video.

I've acknowledged Barrett's efficiency is problematic and less than ideal. I suspect you've seen that yourself. But I've also seen guys turn it around well nto their careers, including a guy on THIS knicks' team.

I choose to consider the possibilities for a Knicks player so long as he's a Knicks player.

Moreover, I don't talk about players with clear animosity unless their behavior (as opposed to their talent or ability) calls for it.

Neither you or I know what the final RJ Barrett product is. Neither of us will for some time. So I'm always going to temper my words and conclusions keeping that in mind.

My "thoughts" are that simple.

ok you thought about it but you are not saying anything.

The fact is RJ has been pretty much the same guy since year 1. Nobody has seen the kind of incremental upticks that say this player has more levels to unlock. He's young. Experience matters. Coaching matters. Things can change.

However with pro sports as you know there is ALWAYS a sense of urgency and being patient with players comes with opportunity cost. Obviously it can also produce. I dont think the FO EVER considered trading Randle. I'm pretty sure he was always getting this season to turn things around.... but one could surely use that as a positive example of patience. Turns out he's none of the stuff folks labeled him last year.

Randle showed in his MIP season some patience was merited. What was RJ shown? He's the least EF% scorer we have and takes the 3rd amount of shots and on a par w/ Randle/Brunson. Its not RJ hate. When do the Knicks shift from patience with RJ to "someone else needs to be taking those shots and getting those minutes"

Randle was 26 in his 7th season.

Barrett is still the youngest guy in the Knicks rotation. Yes, he's logged a lot of years and mins, relatively. That's certainly a factor to consider. He may have peaked or at least gotten close enough that his peak will still be inefficient. That's entirely possible and an argument can be made.

I have zero issue with Barrett criticism. It's appropriate. I make no attempt to explain away his inefficiency. I don't pretend to have a conviction about the remainder of his career.

I know that position confuses some people.

But circling back not all criticism is the same.

There ARE sports fans who become fixated on that one guy. There is always that one guy. Every team, every year, regardless of whether the team is good or bad. A bogeyman ALWAYS exists.

I'm just pointing it out.

I don't have any personal issue with RJ Barrett. I don't need to "vent" frustration over his play, much less all the time. He strikes me as a good guy who genuinely tries. That's all I ask.

I'd be okay with trading him for the right deal, I'd be okay with some of his mins being scaled back. But I just don't see the evidence or need to write off his career.

And the constant complaining and the animosity involved is just a BAD look, any which way.


again... thanks for the thoughts, but you are not saying anything. How long do YOU remain patient? How long do you think the Knicks FO remains patient? How long do you think Thibs remains patient? Feel free to answer any of these with you opinions. You dont need to be right. Just curious

I'll jump in here as too am cool with Barrett for now. Why? We doing good with him in the line up.

See... there is where you lost me. No we arent. We are the worst when he's on the floor. Before the winning streak the worst stretches for the Knicks where when he was on the floor. Namely in the first qtr when he would miss everything and IQ would come in and we would play better and with he's with the Obi/McBride line up which to be fair is very weak and no more.

He's got the worst +/-
He's got the worst ORTg and DRTg
He's got the worst win shares and WS/48

Nalod he's hands down the worst rotation player which honestly would be fine, except his usage and FGAs are NOT in line with the quality of his play. I'm just asking when does that change?

I will say one thing is he's pretty much lost his crunchtime spot to IQ or Hart and has to be playing lights out to stay in. Im not happy with that. Best thing for the Knicks is this guy leveling up.

Fish, I think he clearly meant RJ is still IN the rotation AND the Knicks are winning. He's not arguing the Knicks are at their best when he's on the floor.

As to your purely rhetorical question, which I responded as requested, it doesn't change now.

As nalod was pointing out, there is no current compelling reason to drastically change. Barrett might even benefitting from being a part of what's currently going on.

Development is a curvy, bumpy road that often doesn't take a direct path and isn't on any map.

I personally LIKE him being a part of 47 point quarters.

AND ... I trust Thibs to know the answer to the question better than you or I do.

Knickoftime @ 3/2/2023 4:36 PM
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:I think you set a very bad example for discourse and strike me as one of those "vent frustration" guys and justify being fixated on the negative.

Let's get it straight, you won't even offer an opinion and join in on discourse. I mean, we get it, right?

No, not right.

I have offered my opinion. You find my lack of a a declarative (what I'd call "hot take" like on performative sports morning shows) 'boring.' You're allowed, the shows offer those performances because they appeal to people. They want people to have a visceral reaction to their takes.

But in both nature and training I look at both sides and try to find outcomes, rather than defend my confirmation biases. I find this approach useful and entertaining, and not for nothing, lucrative...

Players can change. And...? That's it? If you don't want to participate, that's on you.

I am participating, just not in a way YOU prefer. And that isn't on me, that's on you. And of course, you have the trap door button, I don't, so in a way, it's REALLY on you.

And you are actively looking for any type of indirect comment that could be construed towards RJ - I was literally praising a couple of players the other day in a thread that was also praising a bunch of players and you took it as a sideways glance to RJ. That's on you. Literally look at how hard you are trying.

"Actively"? I happened upon a post and that was my read. I wrote a 10 second jokey reply. I think you may be reading some premeditation that wasn't there.

But I'm going to give you some credit Martin. When i talk about how some sports fans always need a bogeyman ... when I talk about how some sports fans always gravitate to the negative ... (like the guy making fun of himself) ...and when I say RJ Barrett HAS become the latest Knicks bogeyman, I suspect you know exactly what I'm talking about. And IN MY OPINION, I think you engage in it. I understand that maybe in YOUR OPINION you don't. But in MY OPINION you do, and in MY OPINION, I've seen a lot of fans who do it not really aware they are.

Am I wrong? About you or about that post I wrote a 10 second joke about?

Maybe. That's possible.

But you're literally encouraging me to pick a declarative lane about things.

I mean, aren't you?

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

"Brunson-Quickley-Hart-Randle-Robinson is one of my favorite Knicks lineups of all time"

Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:It will never be the starting lineup most likely, but it is just so good. It will never get outworked, will always be elite defensively, and the offense hums around Randle and Brunson. Teams can’t keep this group off the offensive boards and the actively level is impossible to match. It’s that lineup no team wants to face. Can’t help but be extremely entertained watching them and I feel like this is the lineup that reflects culture change we haven’t seen since the Van Gundy days.

NICE

When you got players who understand their role, give max effort with smart plays, and how they fit in with the guys around them, just makes everyone better. IQ, Mitch, Hart are exactly that

Love it

subtitle: How To Criticize RJ Barrett Without Mentioning RJ Barrett In One Easy Step

Knickoftime wrote:
Panos wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Panos wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:It will never be the starting lineup most likely, but it is just so good. It will never get outworked, will always be elite defensively, and the offense hums around Randle and Brunson. Teams can7;t keep this group off the offensive boards and the actively level is impossible to match. It;s that lineup no team wants to face. Cant help but be extremely entertained watching them and I feel like this is the lineup that reflects culture change we haven;t seen since the Van Gundy days.
NICE

When you got players who understand their role, give max effort with smart plays, and how they fit in with the guys around them, just makes everyone better. IQ, Mitch, Hart are exactly that

Love it

subtitle: How To Criticize RJ Barrett Without Mentioning RJ Barrett In One Easy Step

Hey man, the facts are what they are (until they're not). Why can't a fan have a little joy? At least for a change, there are things to be positive about this team even if RJ isn't the one bringing the joy? Why do we have to be married to him as fans?

Not sure I understand. Have a little joy = being incessantly and obsessively negative about one thing all the time?

You're the only one that mentioned RJ.

No, I wasn't.

I was the one who typed out his name.

The post I responded to WAS about RJ Barrett.

your jokes hit their mark about as well as RJ shoots the ball

Ouch.

Now that's a good joke lol

And that's communicating a ton by responding with very little.

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