Knicks · 2023 Offseason (page 2)

This is how you attract stars. Build from the ground up, find good role players, find stars before they're paid like one. Now adding that final piece is much more doable.

GustavBahler wrote:I know some posters were upset with Zach Lowe for saying that he cant believe he's picking the Knicks over the Heat in the playoffs. But he also has been saying lately that a star will ask to be traded to the Knicks in the near future, because the FO has done such a good job of team building. And that things were different in NY.

This is how you attract stars. Build from the ground up, find good role players, find stars before they're paid like one. Now adding that final piece is much more doable.

100%

The Knicks are in a very good position to level up again.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson/IQ
Grimes/jHart
Barrett/
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

Out of rotation.
Fournier 18.8mm
Rose 15.6mm
McBride
Keels
Sims

Without looking past the playoffs, I think its enjoyable to look to the offseason to see what can happen.

1) I think you have to turn down the DRose option and hopefully re-sign him at a veteran rate.
2) I think you have to look to move Fournier. He becomes an expiring contract (4th year is a team option). So, he probably sticks until at least the trade deadline.
3) Top priority has to be re-signing jHart. He has a 12.9mm player option. I'd probably give him a contract co-terminous with Brunson at about 13mm per year.
4) IQ. He has a team option at 4.2mm, but I am probably looking to extend him in the 14mm per range. Not sure exactly how to price his next contract.
5) Other than that, I am pretty much ready to add the Dallas pick with a SF or PF and run it back.
6) I'd be open to a reunion with Burks on a $5mm to $8mm signing. At this point, I think Burks is probably the best mentor for Barrett I can think of. I think Barrett needs a vet breathing down his neck to get him to tighten up his game. That hole behind Barrett looks better with Burks there. My only issue I ever had with Burks was that I didn't like him as the starting PG.
7) I'd explore moving Barrett, Toppin, anyone out of the rotation and picks if it meant upgrading to an elite 3&D. I'd test the market on Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jaylen Brown, OG Anunoby and Jaren Jackson, Jr. Not desperate though.

What do you guys think?

Good takes!
1. Drose might have more to do with is Adidas contract and were he wants to live than money. stands to reason he is done or is a low cost bench player.
2. Fornier is great contract as part of trade. Good player in the right system not on crazy money but he is mostly salary cap fodder in a bigger deal. What that is? Who knows. Knicks are prime to make a deal. NY post now using that today1
3. Jhart should get a Thibs Tatoo and sign long term for about 12 mil for 3 or 4 years if that will make him happy. He is a role player, a very good one and likly has hit his ceiling. I might be low on his value but he is a guy that is getting bounced around and his value/salary is really hard to peg. Winning in NY with his friends and other Buddy Bridges over the river in BKN makes for good times.
4. IQ mania of late has fans clamoring to love him and never let him go? Kind of kid we let our daughters date? LOL.
Im in the camp of 15m more or less for 4 years. If he can get more, we get right of refusal. Im keeping on open mind on draft picks and a future were other players will be knicks. Thus, is valuable on the court or as a trade chip.
5. BPA…………..Mostly I agree though.
6. If we run it back mostly as is Burks gets no playing time. Jhart is here, Grimes is here, IQ is here. I don’t see him other than out of rotation insurance if Drose is gone. There are others too that can play this role.
7. Barrett is disappointing but he is not the only one we send to rim that lowers his shooting %. Him being “the man” on the second unit looks awkward. Reminds me of when IQ was asked to play make. He is a bit of an enigma at the moment. This could change. It usually does. By that, we find out what was happening AFTER the season. The over dribbling, the lack of downhill plays for him all have a different look right now. His minutes are down, his 3pt shots are down. He seems better to rim and is getting to the line a lot. His defense is off, his running looks off, and he has “Spinovers” are up. This tells me MAYBE he is being coached to add more to his game and its not instinctive. He could be traded, or in two years he is our best player at age 24. I don’t see OG with Jhart. JHart is like a version of OG in a way.
Obi, Where is the interior Obi of his rookie year and College player of the year. He looks skinnier/wirey, and is either dunking in transition or hoisting up the long ball. His handle is supsect and shot is not smooth when creating. He physically looks like Kuzma but is not polished. If he is to reach his potential its not behind a 28 year old all star in his prime (randle). Can we draft a player for his role? Receive a player in a bigge deal?
8. Mitch-Ihart-Simms- I love Mitch as do most. I do question if we can win a chip with his FT liability at games end (lately we are blowing out teams! LOL) and not have offensive options. I have no answer here. IHart is a great back up and his range and passing are very good for the position. Still young, not a prime time guy but he is getting it done. Sims? Who does not like “Jerri”!!!!!! He is like “Nice Ben Wallace”! We have him another year under contract and his value is based on his market value. By that, are teams asking for him in trade? Will he get paid 10mil a year as a back up, do we have to choose between one of him or Ihart? I have no idea what happens here.
If we play milwaukee I run him on Giannis for at least 10 min and tire him out in the 3rd or early 4th quarter.

Lots of games to enjoy and homefully we go deep into May with some playoffs.

I feel like they need someone behind Barrett to take 10 minutes a game at SF and if Barrett is playing poorly, more.

Josh Hart?

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think IQ is gonna cost 4/$100 at least. $15mm per is a pipe dream no offense. Its very possible he's a year away from Jordan Poole money

I would also look hard at Ingram with RJ/Obi type package. Otherwise I am great with drafting the BPA, let Rose go, find a home for Fournier and basically run it back with the same crew.

Hart can decline his $12mm option for a new 4 year $60mm. I would love to play 8 guys and look like this:
Brunson/Grimes/Ingram/Jules/Mitch
bench: IQ/Hart/Hart
Those would be my 8 guys. Build up the pipeline

4 years 25mm is Brunson type money. You crazy.

go look at Brunson's #s before we signed him. Go look at IQ's 2nd half. Brunson was NOT a defensive plus player when we signed him. IQ is currently an elite defender. Still think it's crazy?

A team with big cap space is absolutely going to offer IQ a huge contract if we dont lock him up. Unless of course he regresses but that certainly does not seem to the case. He's already picking up Brunson's moves. IQ could end up being our best player and better than Brunson.

If we dont lock him up for something between Fourner/Brunson's contracts he's gonna get an $30mm a year offer to run someone's team. Eyes wide shut man

IQ is doing 13 and 3 on 35% off the bench.

Im just gonna stop you right here. No he's not. He's averaging 15ppg in 40 games since, Dec, he's a 6moy candidate, shooting close to 40% from 3 and one of the league's best defenders. If you are not gonna look at context you are missing the point. "13/3 off the bench" is either disingenuous or you dont watch the team. There's a huge reason the Knicks are surging and one of the biggest is IQ's play. If this is sustained (especially in the playoffs) Brunson's deal willl be a bargain.

As for who pays him? Any team looking to find THEIR Brunson. After next year and 4th under Thibs you just arent keeping this guy cheap. Sorry dude. You can come back to me on this later

The "you don't watch the games" argument is petty and dumb. You should lose it from your repetoire. It just assumes ignorance on my behalf because you don't agree with my valuation. That's just disrespectful. Do better.

Regarding IQ's stats, they are what they are. If you want to stuff stats to make them support your argument, I can selectively pick stats from other players to dispute that argument. So, we can agree that he is improving over the last 40 and doing really well over the last 7 is not in dispute, but when valuating a player, I think you need to look at the entire body of work, not just the stats you like.

Now, I don't know if he is or isn't 6MOY, but name me any 6MOY that got $25mm per the year after. There are none. You would be making history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Sixth_...

This is a list of player salaries ranked by total. You have IQ making more than Randle and a lot of other really good players. Yes, some are good contracts and others are bad. But

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/

I don't think you can get over 20mm on a player contract for a player that doesn't have consistent starts.

Nalod wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson/IQ
Grimes/jHart
Barrett/
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

Out of rotation.
Fournier 18.8mm
Rose 15.6mm
McBride
Keels
Sims

Without looking past the playoffs, I think its enjoyable to look to the offseason to see what can happen.

1) I think you have to turn down the DRose option and hopefully re-sign him at a veteran rate.
2) I think you have to look to move Fournier. He becomes an expiring contract (4th year is a team option). So, he probably sticks until at least the trade deadline.
3) Top priority has to be re-signing jHart. He has a 12.9mm player option. I'd probably give him a contract co-terminous with Brunson at about 13mm per year.
4) IQ. He has a team option at 4.2mm, but I am probably looking to extend him in the 14mm per range. Not sure exactly how to price his next contract.
5) Other than that, I am pretty much ready to add the Dallas pick with a SF or PF and run it back.
6) I'd be open to a reunion with Burks on a $5mm to $8mm signing. At this point, I think Burks is probably the best mentor for Barrett I can think of. I think Barrett needs a vet breathing down his neck to get him to tighten up his game. That hole behind Barrett looks better with Burks there. My only issue I ever had with Burks was that I didn't like him as the starting PG.
7) I'd explore moving Barrett, Toppin, anyone out of the rotation and picks if it meant upgrading to an elite 3&D. I'd test the market on Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jaylen Brown, OG Anunoby and Jaren Jackson, Jr. Not desperate though.

What do you guys think?

Good takes!
1. Drose might have more to do with is Adidas contract and were he wants to live than money. stands to reason he is done or is a low cost bench player.
2. Fornier is great contract as part of trade. Good player in the right system not on crazy money but he is mostly salary cap fodder in a bigger deal. What that is? Who knows. Knicks are prime to make a deal. NY post now using that today1
3. Jhart should get a Thibs Tatoo and sign long term for about 12 mil for 3 or 4 years if that will make him happy. He is a role player, a very good one and likly has hit his ceiling. I might be low on his value but he is a guy that is getting bounced around and his value/salary is really hard to peg. Winning in NY with his friends and other Buddy Bridges over the river in BKN makes for good times.
4. IQ mania of late has fans clamoring to love him and never let him go? Kind of kid we let our daughters date? LOL.
Im in the camp of 15m more or less for 4 years. If he can get more, we get right of refusal. Im keeping on open mind on draft picks and a future were other players will be knicks. Thus, is valuable on the court or as a trade chip.
5. BPA…………..Mostly I agree though.
6. If we run it back mostly as is Burks gets no playing time. Jhart is here, Grimes is here, IQ is here. I don’t see him other than out of rotation insurance if Drose is gone. There are others too that can play this role.
7. Barrett is disappointing but he is not the only one we send to rim that lowers his shooting %. Him being “the man” on the second unit looks awkward. Reminds me of when IQ was asked to play make. He is a bit of an enigma at the moment. This could change. It usually does. By that, we find out what was happening AFTER the season. The over dribbling, the lack of downhill plays for him all have a different look right now. His minutes are down, his 3pt shots are down. He seems better to rim and is getting to the line a lot. His defense is off, his running looks off, and he has “Spinovers” are up. This tells me MAYBE he is being coached to add more to his game and its not instinctive. He could be traded, or in two years he is our best player at age 24. I don’t see OG with Jhart. JHart is like a version of OG in a way.
Obi, Where is the interior Obi of his rookie year and College player of the year. He looks skinnier/wirey, and is either dunking in transition or hoisting up the long ball. His handle is supsect and shot is not smooth when creating. He physically looks like Kuzma but is not polished. If he is to reach his potential its not behind a 28 year old all star in his prime (randle). Can we draft a player for his role? Receive a player in a bigge deal?
8. Mitch-Ihart-Simms- I love Mitch as do most. I do question if we can win a chip with his FT liability at games end (lately we are blowing out teams! LOL) and not have offensive options. I have no answer here. IHart is a great back up and his range and passing are very good for the position. Still young, not a prime time guy but he is getting it done. Sims? Who does not like “Jerri”!!!!!! He is like “Nice Ben Wallace”! We have him another year under contract and his value is based on his market value. By that, are teams asking for him in trade? Will he get paid 10mil a year as a back up, do we have to choose between one of him or Ihart? I have no idea what happens here.
If we play milwaukee I run him on Giannis for at least 10 min and tire him out in the 3rd or early 4th quarter.

Lots of games to enjoy and homefully we go deep into May with some playoffs.

I feel like they need someone behind Barrett to take 10 minutes a game at SF and if Barrett is playing poorly, more.

Josh Hart?

He can. He's a bit undersized in that role. He certainly works, I would just want another SF in there - 6'7 bigger body to hang with some of the larger SFs in the league.

GustavBahler wrote:I know some posters were upset with Zach Lowe for saying that he cant believe he's picking the Knicks over the Heat in the playoffs. But he also has been saying lately that a star will ask to be traded to the Knicks in the near future, because the FO has done such a good job of team building. And that things were different in NY.

This is how you attract stars. Build from the ground up, find good role players, find stars before they're paid like one. Now adding that final piece is much more doable.

This is true. This is a long time in the making BTW. Actually the stupidity stopped when dolan hired McKinesy and shit canned Grunwald. Not that I blame him, it or "organizational".
Mills was bought back but soon after Irving Azoff seduced Dolan to get Phil, who made tried to install the Triangle culture and Zen like ways but could not execute. Maybe if he coached? Maybe not.
Mills now in charge hires Perry, and has to deal with KP. Another step back due to is injury. Perry makes as good a trade possible and creates the cap space for Randle. Enter Fiz who is a charismatic young coach who was not a bad dude, but just missed something. Phil only had two 1st picks in 4 years. Kp and Frank.
We wiffed, and again on Knox.
We stopped trading 1st rounders (last was the Bargs trade?) and its been a long ass road to get here.

Obviously an elite wing to replace the not yet elite RJ is the easiest to call. So who is that? I don't consider Jeremi Grant that dude. Any trade will leave us in deficient someplace.
When does Giannis not ask out, but Milwaukee reboot. new majority owner is coming in? PHX never sold out Booker. Doubt that happens now. Harden? I think that ship sailed. Same for Lebron. AD? Fragile. KAT? Too soon and where do you play him? Trade him for Randle?
Does Mitch/EF trade for Gorbert move the dial enough? Not a popular more and likly Minny gives up that fast on that trio. Siakim in unrestricted after next year when he is 29 put him at the 3? Obviously we trade the Maple Mamba and EF but how much more will it cost and you have to lock him up beyond one year.

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson/IQ
Grimes/jHart
Barrett/
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

I think the Knicks will make a big move this summer but if they don't, I'd love to see

Brunson/Rokas
Grimes/IQ
Barrett/jHart
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

Deuce, Sims on the outside looking in but break open in case of emergency

Curious but are you pretty confident Rokas is a rotation player next year and better than Deuce? I know he’s skilled but a bit worried about the quickness. He doesn’t seem particularly quick on highlights and worried it will prevent his playmaking as well as defense at point of attack. But I’m judging a small sample size of visuals.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson/IQ
Grimes/jHart
Barrett/
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

I think the Knicks will make a big move this summer but if they don't, I'd love to see

Brunson/Rokas
Grimes/IQ
Barrett/jHart
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

Deuce, Sims on the outside looking in but break open in case of emergency

Curious but are you pretty confident Rokas is a rotation player next year and better than Deuce? I know he’s skilled but a bit worried about the quickness. He doesn’t seem particularly quick on highlights and worried it will prevent his playmaking as well as defense at point of attack. But I’m judging a small sample size of visuals.

I guess my question would be if we're keeping the team largely intact - why would we expect Thibs to go back to the 10 man rotation instead of 9?

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I know some posters were upset with Zach Lowe for saying that he cant believe he's picking the Knicks over the Heat in the playoffs. But he also has been saying lately that a star will ask to be traded to the Knicks in the near future, because the FO has done such a good job of team building. And that things were different in NY.

This is how you attract stars. Build from the ground up, find good role players, find stars before they're paid like one. Now adding that final piece is much more doable.

This is true. This is a long time in the making BTW. Actually the stupidity stopped when dolan hired McKinesy and shit canned Grunwald. Not that I blame him, it or "organizational".
Mills was bought back but soon after Irving Azoff seduced Dolan to get Phil, who made tried to install the Triangle culture and Zen like ways but could not execute. Maybe if he coached? Maybe not.
Mills now in charge hires Perry, and has to deal with KP. Another step back due to is injury. Perry makes as good a trade possible and creates the cap space for Randle. Enter Fiz who is a charismatic young coach who was not a bad dude, but just missed something. Phil only had two 1st picks in 4 years. Kp and Frank.
We wiffed, and again on Knox.
We stopped trading 1st rounders (last was the Bargs trade?) and its been a long ass road to get here.

Obviously an elite wing to replace the not yet elite RJ is the easiest to call. So who is that? I don't consider Jeremi Grant that dude. Any trade will leave us in deficient someplace.
When does Giannis not ask out, but Milwaukee reboot. new majority owner is coming in? PHX never sold out Booker. Doubt that happens now. Harden? I think that ship sailed. Same for Lebron. AD? Fragile. KAT? Too soon and where do you play him? Trade him for Randle?
Does Mitch/EF trade for Gorbert move the dial enough? Not a popular more and likly Minny gives up that fast on that trio. Siakim in unrestricted after next year when he is 29 put him at the 3? Obviously we trade the Maple Mamba and EF but how much more will it cost and you have to lock him up beyond one year.

Im guessing that RJ would have to impress in the playoffs, to keep the FO from including him in a deal for a star.

The FO going back a few years decided they wanted to build a contender the right way. That most often means patience. Stars parachuting on to a team at the same time dont have the same chemistry as a team that is built more organically.

Lakers, Rockets, Nets, have all tried it...unsucessfully. You need a player on LeBron's level to make it work.

MaTT4281 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson/IQ
Grimes/jHart
Barrett/
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

I think the Knicks will make a big move this summer but if they don't, I'd love to see

Brunson/Rokas
Grimes/IQ
Barrett/jHart
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

Deuce, Sims on the outside looking in but break open in case of emergency

Curious but are you pretty confident Rokas is a rotation player next year and better than Deuce? I know he’s skilled but a bit worried about the quickness. He doesn’t seem particularly quick on highlights and worried it will prevent his playmaking as well as defense at point of attack. But I’m judging a small sample size of visuals.

I guess my question would be if we're keeping the team largely intact - why would we expect Thibs to go back to the 10 man rotation instead of 9?

I don't think 9 is his magic number. I think it's fluid.

Knickoftime wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson/IQ
Grimes/jHart
Barrett/
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

I think the Knicks will make a big move this summer but if they don't, I'd love to see

Brunson/Rokas
Grimes/IQ
Barrett/jHart
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

Deuce, Sims on the outside looking in but break open in case of emergency

Curious but are you pretty confident Rokas is a rotation player next year and better than Deuce? I know he’s skilled but a bit worried about the quickness. He doesn’t seem particularly quick on highlights and worried it will prevent his playmaking as well as defense at point of attack. But I’m judging a small sample size of visuals.

I guess my question would be if we're keeping the team largely intact - why would we expect Thibs to go back to the 10 man rotation instead of 9?

I don't think 9 is his magic number. I think it's fluid.

If you have IQ and Hart both coming off the bench than you’re not going more than 9 because of the minutes they demand. So I think it’s unlikely thibs goes beyond 9 regularly ever again.

Knixkik wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson/IQ
Grimes/jHart
Barrett/
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

I think the Knicks will make a big move this summer but if they don't, I'd love to see

Brunson/Rokas
Grimes/IQ
Barrett/jHart
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

Deuce, Sims on the outside looking in but break open in case of emergency

Curious but are you pretty confident Rokas is a rotation player next year and better than Deuce? I know he’s skilled but a bit worried about the quickness. He doesn’t seem particularly quick on highlights and worried it will prevent his playmaking as well as defense at point of attack. But I’m judging a small sample size of visuals.

I guess my question would be if we're keeping the team largely intact - why would we expect Thibs to go back to the 10 man rotation instead of 9?

I don't think 9 is his magic number. I think it's fluid.

If you have IQ and Hart both coming off the bench than you’re not going more than 9 because of the minutes they demand. So I think it’s unlikely thibs goes beyond 9 regularly ever again.

I think the 7, 8,9 and 10 man rotations are about players he trusts rather than a specific player count. We know he trusts Burks. I’m not looking for Burks to replace Barrett, but I think they need a larger wing to backup Barrett even if it’s only 14 minutes a game. Backup SF looks like a roster hole to me.

I don’t really care if he even plays him. Just should have the option of a backup SF that he trusts.

EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson/IQ
Grimes/jHart
Barrett/
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

Out of rotation.
Fournier 18.8mm
Rose 15.6mm
McBride
Keels
Sims

Without looking past the playoffs, I think its enjoyable to look to the offseason to see what can happen.

1) I think you have to turn down the DRose option and hopefully re-sign him at a veteran rate.
2) I think you have to look to move Fournier. He becomes an expiring contract (4th year is a team option). So, he probably sticks until at least the trade deadline.
3) Top priority has to be re-signing jHart. He has a 12.9mm player option. I'd probably give him a contract co-terminous with Brunson at about 13mm per year.
4) IQ. He has a team option at 4.2mm, but I am probably looking to extend him in the 14mm per range. Not sure exactly how to price his next contract.
5) Other than that, I am pretty much ready to add the Dallas pick with a SF or PF and run it back.
6) I'd be open to a reunion with Burks on a $5mm to $8mm signing. At this point, I think Burks is probably the best mentor for Barrett I can think of. I think Barrett needs a vet breathing down his neck to get him t6o tighten up his game. That hole behind Barrett looks better with Burks there. My only issue I ever had with Burks was that I didn't like him as the starting PG.
7) I'd explore moving Barrett, Toppin, anyone out of the rotation and picks if it meant upgrading to an elite 3&D. I'd test the market on Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jaylen Brown, OG Anunoby and Jaren Jackson, Jr. Not desperate though.

What do you guys think?

Great post for us frenzied fans on an off day.

4. I think resigning J Hart is the top priority. I don't really envision him going anywhere else. He loves it here, the team loves him, and the Knicks have his bird rights so they can go over the cap to resign. Leon has been good so far at giving out fair value contracts. EF and RJ's deals look pricey now and Derrick Rose seems like an overpay but at least at the time they were signed, they seemed like good deals. Robinson Randle and Brunson look like great deals. My offhand guess would be 4 years for 60 million.

1,2. When Knicks resign Hart and add two draft picks they start getting real close to that luxury tax. Only way to avoid it is not picking up Rose's team option. It will be at 150+ before Rose's option and the draft picks. Depending on where it ends up, Knicks will be right at it so Rose's 15 million would cost Dolan something like 30. Fournier is also interesting because the Knicks could keep him until the deadline just for trade purposes. GM's around the league have been giving out smarter deals and far fewer superstars are hitting free agency. The value of expirings has declined steeply. I think EF still has some value around the league, maybe there's a French Connection with SA or HOU if they draft Wembanyama. I don't think it's good business to keep EF locked to the bench another season, so hopefully Rose can find a good deal.

6. Burks is the one that got away. He's got a 10 million team option on his contract. Since he's got good trade value, I don't think Detroit let's him walk. Maybe Knicks work out a trade for him back, but I don't really think it's worth it with the rotation set as it is.

4. You are overlooking IQ's advanced stats that show the team is always much, much better when he's on the court. They are more important than arbitrarily starting or coming off the bench. It's a losing argument to say he shouldn't get RJ money or more.
7. Which leaves trades. We have to wait until the playoffs before going there.

Knixkik wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson/IQ
Grimes/jHart
Barrett/
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

I think the Knicks will make a big move this summer but if they don't, I'd love to see

Brunson/Rokas
Grimes/IQ
Barrett/jHart
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

Deuce, Sims on the outside looking in but break open in case of emergency

Curious but are you pretty confident Rokas is a rotation player next year and better than Deuce? I know he’s skilled but a bit worried about the quickness. He doesn’t seem particularly quick on highlights and worried it will prevent his playmaking as well as defense at point of attack. But I’m judging a small sample size of visuals.

I guess my question would be if we're keeping the team largely intact - why would we expect Thibs to go back to the 10 man rotation instead of 9?

I don't think 9 is his magic number. I think it's fluid.

If you have IQ and Hart both coming off the bench than you’re not going more than 9 because of the minutes they demand. So I think it’s unlikely thibs goes beyond 9 regularly ever again.

I think the answer to this is pretty obvious. In the rotation you mentioned, the low hanging fruit is pretty obvious, it's Rokas and Toppin. Unless Rokas, really impresses him, Thibs will just roll out the same rotation. I think if Rokas is in the rotation, you drop Toppin and Barrett gets minutes at PF and Grimes more at SF.

I do magree that the 10 man rotation is fluid, and trust plays a large part in it, and it may fall under the same category kind of, but I think skill and fit also play a role in the decision to expand the rotation. For example, someone mentioned Burks earlier. In a rotation with Rokas I am not sure Burks fits as that is just another wing and you are getting dangerously light and small in the frontcourt. You get a guy like, for example Tobias Harris (with the parameter that Thibs finds he fits) who has size that can swing off the bench it would make more sense.

joec32033 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson/IQ
Grimes/jHart
Barrett/
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

I think the Knicks will make a big move this summer but if they don't, I'd love to see

Brunson/Rokas
Grimes/IQ
Barrett/jHart
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

Deuce, Sims on the outside looking in but break open in case of emergency

Curious but are you pretty confident Rokas is a rotation player next year and better than Deuce? I know he’s skilled but a bit worried about the quickness. He doesn’t seem particularly quick on highlights and worried it will prevent his playmaking as well as defense at point of attack. But I’m judging a small sample size of visuals.

I guess my question would be if we're keeping the team largely intact - why would we expect Thibs to go back to the 10 man rotation instead of 9?

I don't think 9 is his magic number. I think it's fluid.

If you have IQ and Hart both coming off the bench than you’re not going more than 9 because of the minutes they demand. So I think it’s unlikely thibs goes beyond 9 regularly ever again.

I think the answer to this is pretty obvious. In the rotation you mentioned, the low hanging fruit is pretty obvious, it's Rokas and Toppin. Unless Rokas, really impresses him, Thibs will just roll out the same rotation. I think if Rokas is in the rotation, you drop Toppin and Barrett gets minutes at PF and Grimes more at SF.

I do magree that the 10 man rotation is fluid, and trust plays a large part in it, and it may fall under the same category kind of, but I think skill and fit also play a role in the decision to expand the rotation. For example, someone mentioned Burks earlier. In a rotation with Rokas I am not sure Burks fits as that is just another wing and you are getting dangerously light and small in the frontcourt. You get a guy like, for example Tobias Harris (with the parameter that Thibs finds he fits) who has size that can swing off the bench it would make more sense.

Agreed, you don’t need a backup PF necessarily because RJ can play backup 4 with the second unit and hart would play the 3. Quickley can play either guard position so the 9th man can really be a wing or Guard. If the Knicks are putting a rookie into the rotation though, I think it’s more likely a combo forward like Kris Murray who can shoot and rebound, or a wing like Jordan Hawkins who can provide some elite catch and shoot ability and off-ball movement. This team could really use a sniper in the rotation, even for 12 mins a game.

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think IQ is gonna cost 4/$100 at least. $15mm per is a pipe dream no offense. Its very possible he's a year away from Jordan Poole money

I would also look hard at Ingram with RJ/Obi type package. Otherwise I am great with drafting the BPA, let Rose go, find a home for Fournier and basically run it back with the same crew.

Hart can decline his $12mm option for a new 4 year $60mm. I would love to play 8 guys and look like this:
Brunson/Grimes/Ingram/Jules/Mitch
bench: IQ/Hart/Hart
Those would be my 8 guys. Build up the pipeline

4 years 25mm is Brunson type money. You crazy.

Given IQ’s importance to the team and his age, I see him earning at least $18 million a year and it could go as high as $21 million. I do agree that we probably could not pay him $25 million a year but IQ is going to have a market if they let him become a restricted FA in 2024. Our best hope is that he likes his role here and is willing to take a $18-$20 million a year contract extension.

gradyandrew wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Brunson/IQ
Grimes/jHart
Barrett/
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/iHart

Out of rotation.
Fournier 18.8mm
Rose 15.6mm
McBride
Keels
Sims

Without looking past the playoffs, I think its enjoyable to look to the offseason to see what can happen.

1) I think you have to turn down the DRose option and hopefully re-sign him at a veteran rate.
2) I think you have to look to move Fournier. He becomes an expiring contract (4th year is a team option). So, he probably sticks until at least the trade deadline.
3) Top priority has to be re-signing jHart. He has a 12.9mm player option. I'd probably give him a contract co-terminous with Brunson at about 13mm per year.
4) IQ. He has a team option at 4.2mm, but I am probably looking to extend him in the 14mm per range. Not sure exactly how to price his next contract.
5) Other than that, I am pretty much ready to add the Dallas pick with a SF or PF and run it back.
6) I'd be open to a reunion with Burks on a $5mm to $8mm signing. At this point, I think Burks is probably the best mentor for Barrett I can think of. I think Barrett needs a vet breathing down his neck to get him t6o tighten up his game. That hole behind Barrett looks better with Burks there. My only issue I ever had with Burks was that I didn't like him as the starting PG.
7) I'd explore moving Barrett, Toppin, anyone out of the rotation and picks if it meant upgrading to an elite 3&D. I'd test the market on Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jaylen Brown, OG Anunoby and Jaren Jackson, Jr. Not desperate though.

What do you guys think?

Great post for us frenzied fans on an off day.

4. I think resigning J Hart is the top priority. I don't really envision him going anywhere else. He loves it here, the team loves him, and the Knicks have his bird rights so they can go over the cap to resign. Leon has been good so far at giving out fair value contracts. EF and RJ's deals look pricey now and Derrick Rose seems like an overpay but at least at the time they were signed, they seemed like good deals. Robinson Randle and Brunson look like great deals. My offhand guess would be 4 years for 60 million.

1,2. When Knicks resign Hart and add two draft picks they start getting real close to that luxury tax. Only way to avoid it is not picking up Rose's team option. It will be at 150+ before Rose's option and the draft picks. Depending on where it ends up, Knicks will be right at it so Rose's 15 million would cost Dolan something like 30. Fournier is also interesting because the Knicks could keep him until the deadline just for trade purposes. GM's around the league have been giving out smarter deals and far fewer superstars are hitting free agency. The value of expirings has declined steeply. I think EF still has some value around the league, maybe there's a French Connection with SA or HOU if they draft Wembanyama. I don't think it's good business to keep EF locked to the bench another season, so hopefully Rose can find a good deal.

6. Burks is the one that got away. He's got a 10 million team option on his contract. Since he's got good trade value, I don't think Detroit let's him walk. Maybe Knicks work out a trade for him back, but I don't really think it's worth it with the rotation set as it is.

4. You are overlooking IQ's advanced stats that show the team is always much, much better when he's on the court. They are more important than arbitrarily starting or coming off the bench. It's a losing argument to say he shouldn't get RJ money or more.
7. Which leaves trades. We have to wait until the playoffs before going there.

Detroit is not picking up Burks option

Philc1 wrote: Detroit is not picking up Burks option

His per 100 possession numbers are nearly identical to Klay but he gets paid25% of his salary. I'm not sure if there's a better value non rookie deal in the league.

gradyandrew wrote:

Philc1 wrote: Detroit is not picking up Burks option

His per 100 possession numbers are nearly identical to Klay but he gets paid25% of his salary. I'm not sure if there's a better value non rookie deal in the league.

I'm with you. Detroit will absolutely pick that contract up

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Philc1 wrote: Detroit is not picking up Burks option

His per 100 possession numbers are nearly identical to Klay but he gets paid25% of his salary. I'm not sure if there's a better value non rookie deal in the league.

I'm with you. Detroit will absolutely pick that contract up

I was sure when I clicked on this you were going to bring up the discrepancy in points per a game. LOL

My thinking is Detroit feels if they draft Wembabyama they can compete immediately with Cade Ivey Bogdanovic and Burks. If they slip in the draft they can at least get a draft pick for Burks.